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Author Topic: TransCanada submits pipeline application to U.S. for second time Back to Topics
PD

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Message Posted: May 4, 2012 1:27:25 PM

TransCanada today announced that for the second time, it has submitted a Presidential Permit application to the U.S. Department of State for the proposed Keystone XL pipeline that would carry Canadian crude oil to the Gulf region.

The multi-billion dollar Keystone XL pipeline project will reduce the United States' dependence on foreign oil and support job growth by putting thousands of Americans to work," said Russ Girling, TransCanada's president and chief executive officer, even as many media outlets and critics have called TransCanada's job numbers "a joke".

While Girling did mention the likely reduced dependence on foreign oil and the job growth, he failed to mention that if the Keystone XL pipeline is built, it will...

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KathrynOKC
Sophomore Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 7:20:47 AM

I'm not crazy about it. I do wish the would find other ways. Tesla had a few
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KathrynOKC
Sophomore Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 7:17:58 AM

It's making a mess of people land. It will effect those that live by these things. The guys that work on the lines are killing peoples animals running up and down these roads likes nit cases. Country people are used to their dogs being in the roads. these guys don't care at all
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albert2008
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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 8:29:26 AM

get it done already
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rjhenn
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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 2:37:37 AM

Of course you do.
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Reishman
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 28, 2012 10:32:38 AM

I blame Obama.
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albert2008
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Message Posted: May 28, 2012 8:39:01 AM

good stuff
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Donatelo
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 27, 2012 3:00:45 PM

it will go through, just taking safety issues one step at a time.
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D61
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Message Posted: May 27, 2012 10:58:38 AM

Mmm
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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 15, 2012 12:32:11 PM

Agreed blueBMW480, recent news is showing that the Seaway reversal scheduled to start delivery May 17 to increase in supplies by 150,00 bbls/day is driving the premiums of US Gulf oils down off of WTI. As I predicted, the many different grades that nobody really pays much attention to, will decrease with increased supplies and this is just a drop in the bucket when Keystone XL northern leg will bring hundreds of thousands more bbls of oil in.

[Edited by: drpepperTX at 5/15/2012 12:35:48 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 15, 2012 10:00:54 AM

blueBMW480 - Why do you want to increase gas prices and hold back any economic recovery?
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blueBMW480
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Message Posted: May 15, 2012 9:08:08 AM

Build it
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honda0105
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Message Posted: May 12, 2012 12:01:48 AM

the next domestic war will be over clean drinking water (and that's not coming from a bottle).
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Vette1967
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 10:58:51 PM

Here we go again.
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txrojo2005
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 7:01:34 PM

This will get delayed until after the elections.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:42:46 PM

"It was pure politics. And I have no idea what he believes. But I doubt he cares."
=====================
Pure politics yes, but I think he cares.

Have a great weekend buddy!
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:22:48 PM

drpepperTX - "I have another question. Why did Obama swoop in to approve the Southern leg, of which his 'approval' was never necessary? And do you think he believes that will bring the price of oil down or up?"

It was pure politics. And I have no idea what he believes. But I doubt he cares.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:16:22 PM

No, I think I have been trying to keep up with someone else's 'winging it'.

I have another question. Why did Obama swoop in to approve the Southern leg, of which his 'approval' was never necessary? And do you think he believes that will bring the price of oil down or up?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:06:39 PM

So, apparently you paid no attention to the fact that I was originally responding to gasokie's statements about the glut at Cushing, in the context of the northern leg of Keystone XL, which is, of course, the only point where the Presidential Permit application is in context, and you've just been winging it ever since.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 3:32:54 PM

Oh, ok, I see.

So when you said, "So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse.", then said "Because the glut at Cushing is also limiting the price of WTI.", and then said "Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf..." I was confused because on the one hand you said the glut would be worse and then the glut would be relieved with the "significant quantities reach the Gulf" words.

I guess I just did not understand that the worse glut was not really going to get worse but going to be relieved but only after that increase in supply and flow of oil would cause a rise in oil prices.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 2:41:00 PM

drpepperTX - "Really? How so?"

Because the glut at Cushing is also limiting the price of WTI.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 1:58:26 PM

"Which means the price will go up. Likely, the additional pipelines from Sushing to the Gulf will also increase the cost of WTI."

Really? How so?
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rjhenn
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Message Posted: May 11, 2012 1:46:58 PM

drpepperTX - "Since the Gulf Coast refineries are already capable and have even upgraded MORE refinery capacity for this oil, they have been refining the same quality oils from South America all along, there will be no additional difficulty or cost to refine. And that is a domestic market condition."

I'm not talking about the cost to upgrade to handle heavy crude. I'm talking about the actual cost to refine it, as opposed to the simpler process of refining light crude. That's why light crude trades for a higher price than heavy crude. So Canadian heavy crude will still trade at a discount from light crude, but the basis price will be set by world market conditions rather than domestic market conditions.

Which means the price will go up. Likely, the additional pipelines from Sushing to the Gulf will also increase the cost of WTI.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 6:28:16 PM

Since the Gulf Coast refineries are already capable and have even upgraded MORE refinery capacity for this oil, they have been refining the same quality oils from South America all along, there will be no additional difficulty or cost to refine. And that is a domestic market condition.

Additionally you basically said the same thing I did when I stated "It therefore could very well bring the price of Canadian crude up from the current 20% or so discount off of WTI prices but still likely discounted from the WTI market price."
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rjhenn
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:51:14 PM

No, it's a reference to the chemical properties of the crude and the additional difficulty, and cost, of refining it.

[Edited by: rjhenn at 5/10/2012 5:51:33 PM EST]
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:41:13 PM

"...so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it."
================================
Is not your reference to the refining a domestic market condition?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:29:31 PM

Nope, it's the same theory.

Since it's heavy crude, it will still sell at a discount, a much smaller discount, but the price will be determined by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 1:27:59 PM

rjhenn, "...so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it."

Am I misreading or does that theory run counter to your earlier theory?

rjhenn, "Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions."
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 12:02:05 PM

drpepperTX - There's plenty of world demand, and considerable elasticity in supply, so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it.
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Radicalrose
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 10:28:21 AM

what are we waiting for?
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albert2008
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 8:15:10 AM

hurry up already
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Catwatch27
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Message Posted: May 10, 2012 12:03:11 AM

I hope the pipeline is approved.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 8:51:32 PM

"Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions."
--------------------
That's one theory, another is that increasing the North American supply, which is discounted from WTI pricing, and decreasing the demand for overseas oil (based on Brent pricing) will affect (increased supply of any kind) the price of both downward. It therefore could very well bring the price of Canadian crude up from the current 20% or so discount off of WTI prices but still likely discounted from the WTI market price. But we've had this discussion before, nobody knows until and when it happens.

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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 7:03:30 PM

drpepperTX - "As to the Gulf refineries, the Canadian crude will be cheaper to import and replace the more expensive tars sands oils from S America."

Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions.

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Bridge2012
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:22:26 PM

I myself would like for the pipeline to go in.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:20:35 PM

"Neither of which have anything to do with the Presidential Permit application for the northern leg of Keystone XL."
======================
Which brings us full circle to your original questions: "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing? Just how does that work?

Like I said that glut will be relieved by the KeystoneXL south and the Seaway lines. As to the Gulf refineries, the Canadian crude will be cheaper to import and replace the more expensive tars sands oils from S America.

And I concur, additional pipelines should be built to the East and West coasts as well!
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:00:23 PM

drpepperTX - "How will it make it worse? With the Seaway reversal (400,000 barrels per day) carrying oil this additional oil from Cushing to the Gulf Coast. And with the Southern leg of the KeystoneXL carrying even more oil from the Cushing terminal to the Gulf Coast."

Neither of which have anything to do with the Presidential Permit application for the northern leg of Keystone XL.

And we don't need that crude at the Gulf. The refineries there are already producing more than they can sell domestically. We need that crude on the East Coast, possibly even the West Coast.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 4:21:54 PM

"So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse."

=================

How will it make it worse? With the Seaway reversal (400,000 barrels per day) carrying oil this additional oil from Cushing to the Gulf Coast. And with the Southern leg of the KeystoneXL carrying even more oil from the Cushing terminal to the Gulf Coast.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 2:36:28 PM

ManOfLeisureII - "I'm in favor of building this pipeline."

Why?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 2:34:40 PM

drpepperTX - "LOL, yes gasokie mentioned the glut but rjhenn then asked "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing?....Just how does that work?".

I simply explained how that works, since you seemed not to know."

So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse.

Thanks for confirming that neither you nor gasokie are on topic.

[Edited by: rjhenn at 5/9/2012 2:35:46 PM EST]
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honda0105
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 12:04:00 PM

ManofL: you're also a long ways from it and not affected by any spills.
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ManOfLeisureII
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 10:28:29 AM

I'm in favor of building this pipeline.
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Donatelo
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Message Posted: May 9, 2012 9:07:41 AM

k
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 6:49:57 PM

LOL, yes gasokie mentioned the glut but rjhenn then asked "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing?....Just how does that work?".

I simply explained how that works, since you seemed not to know.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 6:35:18 PM

No, gasokie brought it up as a justification for the northern leg of Keystone XL.
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 5:58:38 PM

rjhenn, "So why bring it up when talking about the northern leg of Keystone XL"
=======================
If you're addressing that question to me, it's because you brought up the question. :=)
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 5:51:01 PM

So why bring it up when talking about the northern leg of Keystone XL?
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drpepperTX
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 2:24:38 PM

rjhenn, perhaps you are forgetting that the southern leg of the Keystone XL is going ahead? Or how about the reversal of the Seaway pipeline? That's the relief of the bottleneck. Hope that helps! :=)
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 1:57:50 PM

gasokie - "Oil is selling about 75% of value right now because sellers have to pay that for storage. There is no place to put it. Just like here in Oklahoma where the discount is 15% because of the full storage in Cushing."

So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing?

Just how does that work?
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JCUBE
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:56:44 AM

get Obozo and the rest of the morons in Washington and the big oil interests away from this area
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albert2008
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Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:24:26 AM

get to work
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