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Author Topic: Pipelines as nation-builders? Historians dubious of railway comparisons Back to Topics
Nicoalbum

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Ottawa

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 6:42:08 PM

To hear some proponents of the Energy East project tell it, the moment the taps open on the $12B oil pipeline will be as significant as when the last spike was driven into the Canadian Pacific Railway almost 128 years ago

Linking western crude to eastern markets would be a huge undertaking — the proposal, which would carry crude through Ottawa and the surrounding area, would be the most expensive project in TransCanada's more than 60-yr history — but some observers are dubious Energy East will one day be worthy of its own Heritage Minute

Tugging at Canadians’ patriotic heartstrings is a “smart and usable PR strategy” to get the public on-side with the project

The TransCanada announcement was an important milestone, but Energy East needs to clear many hurdles before shovels can hit
Visit The Canadian Press for full article
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lesndave
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2013 11:07:01 PM

Ok
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drobbbb
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2013 10:58:37 PM

ok
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CdnLynx
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 11:47:52 PM

The time has come, for Canada to find our own solutions; subsequently, that reality for some, is really going to come as a shock and a nasty one at that!

[Edited by: CdnLynx at 8/18/2013 11:49:36 PM EST]
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PDQBlues
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 9:35:23 PM


The comparison is very dubious indeed.
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Nicoalbum
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 2:21:45 AM

Very well said, orphancarguyPE
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orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 1:26:18 AM

What this article overlooks, as do many commentators, is that by shipping western oil east through Canada to the east coast, there are two EXTREMELY significant and important events that happen. Forget for a second that this means that Canada gets export earnings as an oil exporter directly. What people are not focusing on and are in fact more important to Canada are these:
1) Canada supplies the OTHER half of the country with Canadian oil, instead of just the western half. Until now, part of Ontario and all of Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island (as well as Newfoundland & Labrador at times), were effectively fueled by foreign offshore imported oil purchased at higher world prices like 'Brent'. Not only was this importation a huge and continuing financial drain on the country like an open sore, the price differential was actively hurting the industrial heartland of Canada, as nearly 2/3 of the population live in the two biggest provinces of Ontario and Quebec. This huge drain on the balance of payments gets stopped and the money--at lower oil prices too--gets recycled into Canada, not going to Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. A huge economic shot in the arm to the balance of trade worth many many billions per year.
2) For the first time, Canada will not be dependent on happenstance and crossed fingers and deep deep deep discounts to exports its oil. Oil from the west of Canada has been selling as cheaply as $45-50 a barrel just to get it into the overloaded US pipeline network down to the Gulf of Mexico for export, while buying imported oil for the east coast at $100-125 a barrel. Nope, all the oil will head to around $90 or so nationally, which means the west will be boiling with income for selling it for up to $45 more a barrel, and the eastern half of the country will see a HUGE drop in energy costs.
3) Canadian ports on the east coast will get the work of exporting oil, not the US gulf coast. Bonus local jobs!

Now, for Americans its not quite so nice a story.
1) places like Montana and then heading south and east in the mid-west will no longer have access to $45-50 barrel oil massively subsidizing US consumers with cheap cheap cheap below cost of production oil from Canada. So, the price of fuel is going to go up in those places--welcome to the reality of everywhere else.
2) Since the US pipeline network won't be so overcrowded any more, then 'glut depressed' prices of US oil itself, especially North Dakota oil, should slowly end--and US 'WTI priced' oil will end up effectively about the same level as 'Brent priced' oil. Sure will suck for worldwide oil exporters outside of North America as price differentials will disappear and the export price might even drop for Brent, meaning less money for OPEC (but don't cheer because...) Sure will suck to be a consumer from Montana to North Dakota and straight south to Louisiana and west to Arizona, and all the points in between, because oil prices, and from that all prices will rise, effectively getting rid of the 'cost advantages' that the centre of the country has enjoyed vis a vis the east and west coasts which have been stuck paying higher imported oil energy costs for so long. Dang, and then the east and west coasts with learned efficiencies due to living with higher prices are going to streak ahead economically while the centre will be playing catchup

So, the very best thing the US could do for Canada is veto the Keystone XL!
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Winatgas
Champion Author Kentucky

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 1:11:04 AM

The last stake is pretty high on view of the west being won so I think the comparison to that event is to extraordinary.
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comprof
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 1:08:03 AM

Spin - lie - spin - lie.
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RNCII
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:40:35 AM

Massive undertaking.
Similar very much so.
Comparable I don't think so.
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cheapchickKY
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:34:47 AM

If you have to "spin" something, that should indicate a problem.
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dunesfly
Champion Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:16:01 AM

someone is off their meds
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davenles
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:07:58 AM

PR spin only.
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fuzzyscout
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:07:55 AM

Pipelines as important to the country as the first trans-continental railway?

Nonsense!
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1momsunshine
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 12:05:07 AM

hmmm
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CocoPaz
Champion Author Santa Barbara

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 11:58:57 PM

hmmmmmmm
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iFueler
Champion Author Durham

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 11:50:50 PM


     there are many similarities, however I am not sure this is one
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Buddy2264
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 11:43:43 PM

Will it lower Canadian or US fuel prices? I am guessing NOT, will be sold as fuels to the highest bidder on export.
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WEB0153
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 10:19:41 PM

ok
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ScottTee
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 9:58:54 PM

It will help a lot
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Royski
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 9:58:45 PM

Big, but in no way comparable to
the railroads crossing the North
American continent.
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jwkycola
Champion Author Columbia

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 8:23:08 PM

I'm dubious too.
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200porter
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 7:16:51 PM

ok
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madison8359
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 7:08:36 PM

BO will and does lie.

Don't trust them.

Look at their record.
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humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 6:50:10 PM

after that quebec disaster i think most would go for a pipeline
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