Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    7:13 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Natural Gas for Trains Back to Topics
turbodog
Champion Author
Mississippi

Posts:9,992
Points:2,138,115
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 7:51:12 PM

(BRK.A, BRK.B), one of the biggest U.S. consumers of diesel fuel, plans this year to test using natural gas to power its locomotives. If successful, the experiment could weaken oil's dominance as a transportation fuel and provide a new outlet for the glut of cheap natural gas in North America. Read comments
Visit Seeking Alpha for full article
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
jrs4125
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:4,990
Points:1,347,005
Joined:Sep 2011
Message Posted: Mar 7, 2013 6:03:24 AM

Increase demand......... Increase price
NedW
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:8,113
Points:1,728,020
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Mar 7, 2013 1:35:10 AM

Thank you for submitting this article, turbodog.
doctorindyj
Champion Author Santa Fe

Posts:5,249
Points:1,551,550
Joined:Nov 2009
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 6:23:05 PM

A big rail company has the capital to invest in NG infrastructure. The rest of us don't. We need the infrastructure to take advantage of NG.
bar1035
Champion Author Charlotte

Posts:13,562
Points:2,078,020
Joined:Aug 2006
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:02:03 PM

Bad link

But 'Read comments' makes me think that might be the whole article anyway
Norm10
Champion Author British Columbia

Posts:5,752
Points:279,075
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 11:26:35 AM

Not likely!

[Edited by: Norm10 at 3/6/2013 11:26:48 AM EST]
wrunner
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:7,782
Points:1,915,150
Joined:Dec 2009
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 10:51:02 AM

Sounds like a good plan.

To boldly go where no locomotive has gone before.
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:12,641
Points:185,490
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 10:37:23 AM

QUOTE :::CNG will just run out even faster. The 'glut' is short term---do some research.:::

You're joking , the amount of natural gas available is mind boggling. Guess you don't follow your own advice about research.

[Edited by: Hemond at 3/6/2013 10:41:36 AM EST]
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:12,641
Points:185,490
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 10:33:50 AM

QUOTE :::Why? Trains are very efficient running on diesel.:::


Because diesel is $4.29/gal while the equivalent energy from LPG is 42cents.
fuel2use
Champion Author Seattle

Posts:5,559
Points:1,296,115
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 9:37:54 AM

Carry the tanks
ss70
Champion Author Detroit

Posts:13,586
Points:2,608,945
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 9:25:08 AM

Best solution ... that would reduce quite a bit of diesel consumption
EnviroChemist
Champion Author Oklahoma

Posts:3,826
Points:903,685
Joined:Oct 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 9:15:26 AM

Why? Trains are very efficient running on diesel.
fencemanNY
Veteran Author New York

Posts:454
Points:545,935
Joined:Jul 2008
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 8:04:37 AM

Great idea. NG trains can haul railcars filled with CNG to all parts of the US from wherever its being produced.
orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

Posts:6,948
Points:1,480,885
Joined:Jan 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:34:21 AM

CNG is just 'cheap'--its a much lower energy fuel than diesel so much less efficient. If the price goes up, much more expensive to ship everything. CNG will just run out even faster. The 'glut' is short term---do some research.

Long term viability of train lines would be to electrify the main lines, with diesel-electric locomotives that have an overhead trolly that raises whenever there is electrified lines available, and lowers to let it go back to running on diesel where there isn't, like spurs and lightly travelled routes. This is how much of the world does trains. Diesels are already running on electric traction--the diesel engine is only a generator set to run the electric motors.
fora_7
Champion Author Montreal

Posts:4,128
Points:985,925
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:32:47 AM

Very doubtful
USMCturtlehead
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:1,080,930
Points:883,375
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:16:28 AM

Shipping by train is already economical, would this help make it more economical.
sabre75
Champion Author Florida

Posts:1,691
Points:357,110
Joined:May 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:12:32 AM

OK
leeac
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:4,860
Points:1,212,745
Joined:Jan 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 6:49:24 AM

This could be a very big change is how goods and commodities are transported.
Radar1992
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:4,561
Points:1,086,290
Joined:Dec 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 6:45:34 AM

Warren Buffet stated on CNBC on Monday that they have purchases three or four test locomotives which run on Natural Gas.

At the reduced cost of CNG it only makes sense....
djgunrunner
Champion Author Salt Lake City

Posts:13,549
Points:3,122,035
Joined:Apr 2005
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 4:12:30 AM

This is something I would really like to see. Diesel engines can be converted to run on Natural Gas and that is a proven fact. Talk about a dollar saving. Today I saw a price for Liquid Natural Gas at $2.54 and Compressed Natural Gas for $1.88. Compare that to the lowest prices for diesel on Gas Buddy in the Salt Lake area at $3.79 with some places hitting $4.06 and more. That is at least a 51 percent savings to 54 percent saving.
pricewar
Champion Author Ogden

Posts:5,256
Points:1,054,530
Joined:Jul 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 4:05:04 AM

Whatever works economically
ClarkSC
Champion Author South Carolina

Posts:6,020
Points:1,781,180
Joined:May 2010
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 3:02:41 AM

Go for it.
Bussman
Champion Author Dallas

Posts:8,210
Points:2,031,935
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 2:22:54 AM

Oh, the possibilities.
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:12,641
Points:185,490
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:59:56 AM

Got a link for the article you referenced? Your link goes nowhere.
Pmgr
All-Star Author San Antonio

Posts:822
Points:659,535
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:32:52 AM

ok
Pmgr
All-Star Author San Antonio

Posts:822
Points:659,535
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:29:22 AM

let's go
musicreporter
All-Star Author San Antonio

Posts:966
Points:668,140
Joined:Dec 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:26:57 AM

anything that helps
iFueler
Champion Author Durham

Posts:76,350
Points:954,400
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:23:45 AM


     sounds like may be a good idea
gcalleja
Champion Author Miami

Posts:3,432
Points:1,287,920
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:22:52 AM

Good!
Cothrom
Champion Author South Carolina

Posts:4,289
Points:1,480,330
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:22:12 AM

If they can implement it that would be killer!
Wally3023
Champion Author Pennsylvania

Posts:4,776
Points:1,248,880
Joined:Sep 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 1:07:42 AM

Wow
1momsunshine
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:8,552
Points:1,735,360
Joined:Mar 2010
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 12:52:11 AM

Interesting.
JohnofGB
Champion Author Flint

Posts:8,659
Points:1,871,345
Joined:Feb 2010
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 12:39:31 AM

Warren Buffet's Burlington Northern is experimenting with this new train fuel.
Vette1967
Champion Author Albany

Posts:9,215
Points:2,055,670
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 12:31:39 AM

Interesting.
CVA19
Champion Author Salem

Posts:3,577
Points:1,333,925
Joined:Aug 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 12:24:42 AM

Will be interested in hearing how this plays out.
Vetteblu
Champion Author Denver

Posts:5,643
Points:1,519,340
Joined:Oct 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 11:43:17 PM

Hard to believe this is new.
qwerty17
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:6,401
Points:1,867,695
Joined:Oct 2009
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 11:22:44 PM

wow. great idea.
where are the cng cars?
TXRanger09
Champion Author Dallas

Posts:4,052
Points:1,368,750
Joined:May 2009
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:56:24 PM

I think trains should go with a dual fuel system, like many cargo ships.
drobbbb
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:6,479
Points:1,571,450
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:52:43 PM

sounds like a winner
Night Owl
Champion Author Toronto

Posts:10,710
Points:2,561,030
Joined:Jul 2004
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:48:49 PM

Good. Let's use more of America's and Canada's plentiful supplies of natural gas.
nsdp
Champion Author San Antonio

Posts:1,119
Points:77,430
Joined:Jun 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:42:43 PM

Tom you don't convert existing engines you buy new locomotives with tender cars. UP has been running a test bed for three years now and its fuel costs are about 1/5th of diesel. Maintenance is maybe 1/2 of the cost for a diesel locomotive. Farmers substituted NG for propane and diesel in Oglala irrigation wells int he 1950's so it should be no big deal for the Railroads to catch up 60 years later.
Trudat316
Veteran Author Missouri

Posts:341
Points:54,840
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:39:51 PM

Go for it!
jjjleblanc
Champion Author Rochester

Posts:9,068
Points:2,292,125
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 10:38:22 PM

Great news.
NHLiveFree
Champion Author New Hampshire

Posts:14,952
Points:2,383,715
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:59:15 PM


It would sure beat the lousy bunker oil and diesel that is used now.
pleinyeux
Champion Author Montreal

Posts:3,507
Points:931,940
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:40:36 PM

I hope Natural Gas for Trains save plenty of money
TomT2Lee
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:6,503
Points:2,038,375
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:36:59 PM

again, the conversion cost is very high. Yes natural gas is cheap right now. It will not remain that way for a very long time; probably not long enough for most conversion costs to be paid for with the cheaper natural gas of today.
BobBG
Champion Author Albany

Posts:3,109
Points:1,534,825
Joined:Nov 2005
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:26:37 PM

Natural gas burns cleaner and is cheaper, so let's hope it works well.
race2IT
Champion Author Fort Worth

Posts:2,774
Points:1,288,990
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 8:10:27 PM

I hope so because I ride the trains, rails, buses, and any mass transits, now. If they do use natural gas mass transit will save plenty of money and so will the riders, I hope.
carrek
Veteran Author Seattle

Posts:314
Points:271,435
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 8:08:20 PM

Burning natural gas on trains would be much better for the environment.
humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:63,853
Points:3,152,370
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 7:55:06 PM

smart move i think
Post a reply Back to Topics