Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    7:03 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Maybe we don’t need Keystone XL Back to Topics
Nicoalbum
Champion Author
Ottawa

Posts:10,037
Points:2,003,900
Joined:Jan 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 1:42:53 PM

Crude solutions the bottleneck

To the dismay of proponents in Canada, the Obama administration has lately been sounding cool to Keystone XL—even cooler than it did to TransCanada Corp.’s border-hopping oil pipeline just before it got mothballed a year ago. If that’s testing nerves in Ottawa and Edmonton, it’s also stimulating the creativity of U.S. refiners. Many of them, desperate to profit from Canada’s cheap oil, are working feverishly on a Plan B to load bitumen onto railcars, barges and trucks to bring it south to their processing facilities in Texas.

Even if Keystone XL is approved it won’t be completed until at least 2015, an unlikely best-case scenario. Meanwhile, pipeline bottlenecks are keeping western Canadian crude trading at roughly half the world oil price. That’s why “peop
Visit Canadian Business for full article
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Mar 7, 2013 10:53:36 PM


Proved my point exactly!
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:14,635
Points:1,561,095
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Mar 7, 2013 12:40:58 AM

LOL, the second coming of Christ?? Absolutely not Cakes! The KXL simply makes sense over shipping by rail or trucks, pipelines are simply and statistically much safer for the environment. And after all that should be of great concern, at least it is to me!

The Truth shall set you free!!!
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 10:57:39 PM


Agree Gvan...a simple answer, too simple for some who think that the XL is the second coming of Christ!
bston
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,151
Points:1,477,375
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:36:22 PM

Too much bureaucracy tied up in this.
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:26,428
Points:3,647,965
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 3:41:05 PM

"Wouldn't it be easier to build a refinery where the oil is rather than build a pipeline?"

Here's one possible answer:

Some people suggest refining the oil in Canada for export. It might be a good idea in theory, but it’s not really practical. Once refined, there will be over 20 products out of it. Are we going to build 20 plus pipelines or send them by trucks to the US and how is it shipped overseas? At 900,000 barrels a day, that’s over 4,000 truckloads a day.

sjf238
Champion Author Philadelphia

Posts:1,215
Points:650,655
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 11:23:40 AM

Let's keep funding our enemies (Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia), and I'm sure China will be more than happy to buy more oil from Canada.
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:14,635
Points:1,561,095
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 10:17:02 AM

"Wouldn't it be easier to build a refinery where the oil is rather than build a pipeline?"
============================
No. Well, easier is a relative term. You see the cost of building one new refinery is double the cost of the KXL for starters. Next the environmental permitting and red tape takes a decade or more from proposal to completion. Then consider the fact that just one refinery would not handle that much oil.

That's why it's not so simple Cakes!

The Truth shall set you free!!!
USMCturtlehead
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:1,132,468
Points:916,850
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:52:16 AM

Maybe we don't.
mkohly
All-Star Author Chicago

Posts:760
Points:155,855
Joined:Sep 2009
Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 7:37:51 AM

This pipeline isn't just for Canadian oil..., it is also planned to make it easier to export oil from the Midwest.

Once they can export it cheaply, prices in the Midwest will be based on the global market and pump price will skyrocket!
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 11:43:30 PM


You make total sense to me endymion! Maybe too simple for some.
nsdp
Champion Author San Antonio

Posts:1,119
Points:77,430
Joined:Jun 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:56:07 PM

As the story notes the refiners are looking for cheap crude. One alternative is to sign long term processing agreements with Latin American countries to process their heavy crude for them at a contract price. Right now that price is 15 cents a gallon higher than refining crude for the US market. What the Canadians and 99% of the posters here have failed to comprehend is that is plan A for refiners because they get their cash immediately and don't have to worry about changes in price affecting inventory and a resulting loss on the bottom line. No risk and a guaranteed profit better than they get out of refining for the US market. And no property taxes on inventory since it is owned by a foreign government who can't be taxed. That saved Valero about $7 million in December at the Corpus Christi refinery. That does not apply to Canadian crude after refining unless Canada owns the products after refining.

Given Valero's long track record with Mexico, Canadian crude doesn't fit Bill Kleese's business plan despite what Joe Gorder's comments. Valero will lead the charge to trade surplus US light crude to Mexico for Maya.

[Edited by: nsdp at 3/5/2013 9:57:19 PM EST]
endymion
Champion Author New York

Posts:2,473
Points:506,295
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:44:25 PM

Wouldn't it be easier to build a refinery where the oil is rather than build a pipeline?
YaBassa
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:5,828
Points:1,356,375
Joined:Nov 2011
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 5:41:56 PM

Keystone XL promise of plentiful jobs and more oil available is just a baited hook for every sucker to believe. The only thing the pipeline guarantees is $$$$$Billions more for the Koch brothers
kag2010
Champion Author Winnipeg

Posts:7,758
Points:1,734,935
Joined:Apr 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 4:08:58 PM

No we don't,
xgojim
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:2,134
Points:1,182,245
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 4:04:09 PM

Maybe we do!! What a stupid headline.
humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:65,132
Points:3,185,745
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 3:36:08 PM

build the xl and cancel obamacare for a better america
turboz2012
Champion Author Charleston

Posts:1,027
Points:1,063,795
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 3:20:29 PM

we can use the jobs
ErnieK9LO
Champion Author North Dakota

Posts:5,628
Points:1,240,000
Joined:Nov 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 3:05:26 PM

Stop the pipe line in ND and we can refine it there.
Coco0828
Champion Author Dallas

Posts:3,299
Points:860,535
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:50:19 PM

wow
RussianAnya
All-Star Author Dallas

Posts:708
Points:173,340
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:26:20 PM

Sure
RussianAnya
All-Star Author Dallas

Posts:708
Points:173,340
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:25:56 PM

Sure
RussianAnya
All-Star Author Dallas

Posts:708
Points:173,340
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:25:14 PM

Sure
RussianAnya
All-Star Author Dallas

Posts:708
Points:173,340
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:24:15 PM

Sure
RussianAnya
All-Star Author Dallas

Posts:708
Points:173,340
Joined:Jan 2013
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:23:35 PM

Sure
Van_Halen
Champion Author Atlanta

Posts:3,142
Points:1,298,210
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:18:05 PM

.
The point here is that if Obama had not illegally interfered the Pipeline would already have been built!
teenitup
Champion Author Houston

Posts:5,541
Points:997,380
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 2:01:51 PM

One way or another we need the oil coming south.
doggod
Champion Author Anchorage

Posts:4,340
Points:1,067,560
Joined:May 2009
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 1:55:33 PM

I confess to being a little baffled why people don't build refineries in Alberta and export the refined product ... via truck or rail or whatever. Must be a reason; maybe it's their own NIMBY greenies, dunno.

Nicoalbum
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:10,037
Points:2,003,900
Joined:Jan 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 1:43:29 PM

To be, or not to be - that doesn't matter
Post a reply Back to Topics