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Author Topic: Natural gas powered vehicles on the horizon despite challenges Back to Topics
angel4me

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San Jose

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:36:59 AM

With technology for natural gas powered vehicles on the horizon, many consumers are sure to be excited about the possibility of lowered fueling costs and reduced emissions. However, there are a few bumps in the road in making these vehicles available for a mass market.

With fueling costs of natural gas vehicles roughly one-third of traditional unleaded gasoline fueled vehicles, motorists are sure to embrace the new technology. Chesapeake Energy spokesperson Phil Pfister explains how these vehicles have fared in other states.

“Right now in Oklahoma, motorists that are fueling up are fueling up for 99 cents a gallon equivalent, versus—we’re paying about $3.50 for gasoline here in West Virginia. In Louisiana motorists are fueling up for about $1.49 a gallon equivalent. So, there is
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blupupher
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:13:27 AM

I would love an affordable CNG/gasoline hybrid. I have CNG at home, so I could fuel at home (although the cost for the CNG compressor to fill at home is kind of high) for 90% of my driving, and have a gasoline backup if I trave away from where the is CNG.

Biggest issue is once CNG becomes widespread, the cost will rise and taxes will be added to it, negating most of the cost benefits of it.
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virostek
Veteran Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 7:19:26 AM

OK.
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LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:18:20 AM


tankumo...you might want to talk to your friend with the straight scoop! Gas vehicles are more prone to fire/blow-ups than NG. Why! Because gasoline is heavier than air and the fumes pool under the vehicle and why your hot water heater in the garage can cause an explosion.

On the other hand NG is lighter than air, so when there is a leak it diffuses upward into the atmosphere, and it takes a higher concentration of NG fumes to burn than Gas.
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listerone
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:06:46 PM

If natural gas is plentiful then it might be a good idea.
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Tacodan
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:35:06 PM

CNG won't be the future ........
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fencemanNY
Veteran Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 5:20:59 PM

I want one now. Start building those filling stations.
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tankumo
All-Star Author Vancouver

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 2:45:06 PM

I always like NG cars.....but my friend said it can blow up very easily, I assume they must have safety feature, I don't want a car that can blow up.

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schatzila
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:23:27 PM

Bring on the natural gas vehicles.
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WalkingWV
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:04:29 PM

Attractive now, but the price will skyrocket after this takes hold.
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orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:57:52 AM

Challenges? $10,000 per vehicle translates into a fair amount of fuel before you break even, and that is only if natural gas remains as low as it is now, which it won't and in fact, cannot.

Having checked retail pricing for natural gas across North America (and availability) some places were as low as about 85 cents GGE (gasoline gallon equivalent) and others were in the $2.xx range ($2.60 was as much an outlier as was 85 cents)

The pricing of natural gas from fracking has been based on some mistaken assumptions. At $2.00 million BTUs, most conventional natural gas breaks even, and it was assumed that fracked gas would break even at $4.00. (The price has climbed from about $1.90 to sit at $3.40 recently) However, recent studies put the real price at $6.50-$7.50 by 2020 in the BEST plays in Texas, and more recent industry talk is $8.00 for lesser plays. It turns out that the wells don't last very long or have very high output compared to their high fixed costs, so the breakeven price is going to be about double the assumed price, and nearly triple the average over the last year or so.

So, if it triples, then triple the retail prices quoted. That sure cuts into the price advantage even after you pay off the $10,000 and up conversion cost. Here is the reason fracked natural gas--although plentiful--if going to be a lot more expensive than thought. If you have trillions in investment money looking for the 'next new thing' after the US real estate crash, then fracking looks like a real good thing until you look closely. Unlimited capital investment covers up a lot of weaknesses...as in the real estate bubble.
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/1354531-the-real-bakken-shale-well-decline
http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/122466/Shale_Gas_Will_be_the_Next_Bubble_to_Pop_An_Interview_with_Arthur_Berman
http://seekingalpha.com/article/873141-the-real-natural-gas-production-decline
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hrtdi
Champion Author Vermont

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:45:32 AM

As soon as availibility (car and station) won't be a problem, watch out for rises; prices of the nat. gas and politicians rising taxes on natural gas because the need of money for roads, brdges, etc!!!

But It is a great alternative to unleaded fuel for sure!
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humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:57:26 AM

honda has been building and selling them for decades
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Norm10
Champion Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:47:46 AM

This make more sense than electric vehicles.
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Zuegma
Champion Author Nova Scotia

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:39:40 AM

The ultimate success of one alternate energy form over another is inherently tied to implementing a widespread distribution system(s).
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:31:01 AM

The challenge is big oil figuring how to make quazillion bucks off of it on the backs of us.
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gbs1
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:02:29 AM

Added fueling stations will help with the continued growth.
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bisonjim
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:37:49 AM

More fueling stations needed
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FortVancouver01
Champion Author Washington

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:33:22 AM

Many fueling stations in this area too.
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fuel2use
Champion Author Seattle

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:24:33 AM

Good for short travel at this time. Not for trips.
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GingoutMD
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:24:20 AM

Need the infrastructure in place for natural gas fueled vehicle to take off. This is the same problem with EVs, but the cost of the vehicle is most likely lower... at least I hope they will be.
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JeffersonState
All-Star Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:03:11 AM

I see lots of fueling stations on the west coast. Electric charging stations are also pretty common now. Maybe Gas Buddy needs to have optional postings for alternative fuels..? ...would sure be helpful.
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deputydog082
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:57:24 AM

how would you refuel on a cross-country trip?
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jbhubbell
Rookie Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:49:50 AM

It would be nice if you just opened your trunk and swapped bottles like a propane exchange.
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idobusiness
Rookie Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:47:45 AM

yeah, need more access for sure
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swepson
Champion Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:44:03 AM

Need more access at public stations.
Less expensive home fueling stations.
CNG vehicles where the tank doesn't take up most of the cargo area.
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roadrunnerMO
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:42:21 AM

Wait until they add fuel taxes to that compressed natural gas... the holiday is not going to continue. Washington is tax crazy and craves that monies from the public.
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streetdesign
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:41:36 AM

Nice cost saving equivalent if it ever reaches the masses.
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badbonita
Champion Author Syracuse

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:40:24 AM

CNG or LNG vehicles have been around for years. Mostly in commercial fleets as pickups, vans and other delivery or maintenance vehicles.
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