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Author	Topic: Natural gas powered vehicles on the horizon despite challenges	Post a Reply Back to Topics

angel4me Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,814 Points:796,045 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:36:59 AM Ignore angel4me Report Abuse With technology for natural gas powered vehicles on the horizon, many consumers are sure to be excited about the possibility of lowered fueling costs and reduced emissions. However, there are a few bumps in the road in making these vehicles available for a mass market. With fueling costs of natural gas vehicles roughly one-third of traditional unleaded gasoline fueled vehicles, motorists are sure to embrace the new technology. Chesapeake Energy spokesperson Phil Pfister explains how these vehicles have fared in other states. “Right now in Oklahoma, motorists that are fueling up are fueling up for 99 cents a gallon equivalent, versus—we’re paying about $3.50 for gasoline here in West Virginia. In Louisiana motorists are fueling up for about $1.49 a gallon equivalent. So, there is Visit WVPUBCAST for full article

angel4me

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:36:59 AM

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With technology for natural gas powered vehicles on the horizon, many consumers are sure to be excited about the possibility of lowered fueling costs and reduced emissions. However, there are a few bumps in the road in making these vehicles available for a mass market.

With fueling costs of natural gas vehicles roughly one-third of traditional unleaded gasoline fueled vehicles, motorists are sure to embrace the new technology. Chesapeake Energy spokesperson Phil Pfister explains how these vehicles have fared in other states.

“Right now in Oklahoma, motorists that are fueling up are fueling up for 99 cents a gallon equivalent, versus—we’re paying about $3.50 for gasoline here in West Virginia. In Louisiana motorists are fueling up for about $1.49 a gallon equivalent. So, there is
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blupupher Champion Author Houston Posts:3,561 Points:749,995 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:13:27 AM Ignore blupupher Report Abuse I would love an affordable CNG/gasoline hybrid. I have CNG at home, so I could fuel at home (although the cost for the CNG compressor to fill at home is kind of high) for 90% of my driving, and have a gasoline backup if I trave away from where the is CNG. Biggest issue is once CNG becomes widespread, the cost will rise and taxes will be added to it, negating most of the cost benefits of it.
virostek Veteran Author Virginia Posts:423 Points:90,285 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 7:19:26 AM Ignore virostek Report Abuse OK.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,615 Points:1,207,430 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:18:20 AM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse tankumo...you might want to talk to your friend with the straight scoop! Gas vehicles are more prone to fire/blow-ups than NG. Why! Because gasoline is heavier than air and the fumes pool under the vehicle and why your hot water heater in the garage can cause an explosion. On the other hand NG is lighter than air, so when there is a leak it diffuses upward into the atmosphere, and it takes a higher concentration of NG fumes to burn than Gas.
listerone Champion Author Boston Posts:3,390 Points:880,715 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:06:46 PM Ignore listerone Report Abuse If natural gas is plentiful then it might be a good idea.
Tacodan Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:2,336 Points:656,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:35:06 PM Ignore Tacodan Report Abuse CNG won't be the future ........
fencemanNY Veteran Author New York Posts:417 Points:358,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 5:20:59 PM Ignore fencemanNY Report Abuse I want one now. Start building those filling stations.
tankumo Veteran Author Vancouver Posts:399 Points:70,050 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 2:45:06 PM Ignore tankumo Report Abuse I always like NG cars.....but my friend said it can blow up very easily, I assume they must have safety feature, I don't want a car that can blow up.
schatzila Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:4,959 Points:1,018,570 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:23:27 PM Ignore schatzila Report Abuse Bring on the natural gas vehicles.
WalkingWV Champion Author West Virginia Posts:3,701 Points:779,595 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:04:29 PM Ignore WalkingWV Report Abuse Attractive now, but the price will skyrocket after this takes hold.
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,860 Points:736,940 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:57:52 AM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse Challenges? $10,000 per vehicle translates into a fair amount of fuel before you break even, and that is only if natural gas remains as low as it is now, which it won't and in fact, cannot. Having checked retail pricing for natural gas across North America (and availability) some places were as low as about 85 cents GGE (gasoline gallon equivalent) and others were in the $2.xx range ($2.60 was as much an outlier as was 85 cents) The pricing of natural gas from fracking has been based on some mistaken assumptions. At $2.00 million BTUs, most conventional natural gas breaks even, and it was assumed that fracked gas would break even at $4.00. (The price has climbed from about $1.90 to sit at $3.40 recently) However, recent studies put the real price at $6.50-$7.50 by 2020 in the BEST plays in Texas, and more recent industry talk is $8.00 for lesser plays. It turns out that the wells don't last very long or have very high output compared to their high fixed costs, so the breakeven price is going to be about double the assumed price, and nearly triple the average over the last year or so. So, if it triples, then triple the retail prices quoted. That sure cuts into the price advantage even after you pay off the $10,000 and up conversion cost. Here is the reason fracked natural gas--although plentiful--if going to be a lot more expensive than thought. If you have trillions in investment money looking for the 'next new thing' after the US real estate crash, then fracking looks like a real good thing until you look closely. Unlimited capital investment covers up a lot of weaknesses...as in the real estate bubble. http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/1354531-the-real-bakken-shale-well-decline http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/122466/Shale_Gas_Will_be_the_Next_Bubble_to_Pop_An_Interview_with_Arthur_Berman http://seekingalpha.com/article/873141-the-real-natural-gas-production-decline
hrtdi All-Star Author Vermont Posts:782 Points:153,765 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 11:45:32 AM Ignore hrtdi Report Abuse As soon as availibility (car and station) won't be a problem, watch out for rises; prices of the nat. gas and politicians rising taxes on natural gas because the need of money for roads, brdges, etc!!! But It is a great alternative to unleaded fuel for sure!
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,304 Points:2,373,320 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:57:26 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse honda has been building and selling them for decades
Norm10 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:3,342 Points:162,925 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:47:46 AM Ignore Norm10 Report Abuse This make more sense than electric vehicles.
Zuegma All-Star Author Nova Scotia Posts:998 Points:259,855 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:39:40 AM Ignore Zuegma Report Abuse The ultimate success of one alternate energy form over another is inherently tied to implementing a widespread distribution system(s).
Jayburt All-Star Author Toledo Posts:529 Points:131,890 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:31:01 AM Ignore Jayburt Report Abuse The challenge is big oil figuring how to make quazillion bucks off of it on the backs of us.
gbs1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,011 Points:744,550 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:02:29 AM Ignore gbs1 Report Abuse Added fueling stations will help with the continued growth.
bisonjim Champion Author Florida Posts:1,070 Points:209,155 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:37:49 AM Ignore bisonjim Report Abuse More fueling stations needed
FortVancouver01 Champion Author Washington Posts:1,175 Points:289,770 Joined:Jul 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:33:22 AM Ignore FortVancouver01 Report Abuse Many fueling stations in this area too.
fuel2use Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,494 Points:734,370 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:24:33 AM Ignore fuel2use Report Abuse Good for short travel at this time. Not for trips.
GingoutMD Champion Author Maryland Posts:3,495 Points:713,305 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:24:20 AM Ignore GingoutMD Report Abuse Need the infrastructure in place for natural gas fueled vehicle to take off. This is the same problem with EVs, but the cost of the vehicle is most likely lower... at least I hope they will be.
JeffersonState All-Star Author Oregon Posts:650 Points:157,370 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 9:03:11 AM Ignore JeffersonState Report Abuse I see lots of fueling stations on the west coast. Electric charging stations are also pretty common now. Maybe Gas Buddy needs to have optional postings for alternative fuels..? ...would sure be helpful.
deputydog082 Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,795 Points:662,270 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:57:24 AM Ignore deputydog082 Report Abuse how would you refuel on a cross-country trip?
jbhubbell Rookie Author Alabama Posts:83 Points:33,755 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:49:50 AM Ignore jbhubbell Report Abuse It would be nice if you just opened your trunk and swapped bottles like a propane exchange.
idobusiness Rookie Author Ohio Posts:10 Points:6,250 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:47:45 AM Ignore idobusiness Report Abuse yeah, need more access for sure
swepson Champion Author Greensboro Posts:5,483 Points:1,554,300 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:44:03 AM Ignore swepson Report Abuse Need more access at public stations. Less expensive home fueling stations. CNG vehicles where the tank doesn't take up most of the cargo area.
roadrunnerMO Champion Author Kansas Posts:8,416 Points:1,701,415 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:42:21 AM Ignore roadrunnerMO Report Abuse Wait until they add fuel taxes to that compressed natural gas... the holiday is not going to continue. Washington is tax crazy and craves that monies from the public.
streetdesign All-Star Author Illinois Posts:551 Points:577,695 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:41:36 AM Ignore streetdesign Report Abuse Nice cost saving equivalent if it ever reaches the masses.
badbonita Champion Author Syracuse Posts:6,234 Points:1,355,660 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:40:24 AM Ignore badbonita Report Abuse CNG or LNG vehicles have been around for years. Mostly in commercial fleets as pickups, vans and other delivery or maintenance vehicles.