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Author	Topic: What a waste! Picture from space reveals how new U.S. oil field is burning off enough gas to power C	Post a Reply Back to Topics

WonderfulMI Champion Author Michigan Posts:11,628 Points:1,782,950 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 8:53:12 AM Ignore WonderfulMI Report Abuse This incredible picture from space shows how the U.S. oil industry has boomed to such an extent that a gas field now burns as brightly as a major city. The rapid increase in shale oil production means it is now often more economical to 'flare off' unwanted gas than to sell it. As a result, one field in North Dakota, the state leading the energy revolution, is now burning off enough gas to power all the homes in Chicago and Washington D.C. combined. In a recently released satellite image from NASA, the light being given off at the Bakken formation, almost twice the size of Wales, easily competes in intensity with that being emitted from those cities. The volume of gas going up in flames at the plant rose by around 50 per cent last year alone in a practice that is causing growing con Visit Daily Mail for full article

WonderfulMI

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 8:53:12 AM

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This incredible picture from space shows how the U.S. oil industry has boomed to such an extent that a gas field now burns as brightly as a major city.
The rapid increase in shale oil production means it is now often more economical to 'flare off' unwanted gas than to sell it.
As a result, one field in North Dakota, the state leading the energy revolution, is now burning off enough gas to power all the homes in Chicago and Washington D.C. combined.

In a recently released satellite image from NASA, the light being given off at the Bakken formation, almost twice the size of Wales, easily competes in intensity with that being emitted from those cities.

The volume of gas going up in flames at the plant rose by around 50 per cent last year alone in a practice that is causing growing con
Visit Daily Mail for full article

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drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,924 Points:748,960 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:29:51 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse It's all good!
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:03:12 PM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse Dr.Pepper, I sincerely apologize; I'm not trying to excused it away, however this is the 2nd time the pdf search did not reveal it. Again, sorry for not clearly reading slowly and properly.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,924 Points:748,960 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 5:50:12 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Cdnlynx, I did not make that statement, that was quoted directly from the study conclusions. Good grief, if you want to argue the scientists go right ahead and contact them! [Edited by: drpepperTX at 1/31/2013 5:52:21 PM EST]
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 4:28:53 PM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse DrPepper, I am curious about your following comment; "Furthermore, the vast majority of contemporary shale gas wells, the revenues gained from using reduced emissions completions to capture the gas produced during a typical flowback cover the cost of executing such completions." If the following,is what you mean, then it's a concern! "Revenues gained from using reduced emissions completions"! What are you trying to say; that the monies gained by allowing the venting of natural gas now, will eventually allow them to finance the eventual capture of future fugitive gases. Give me a Break! If that is what your trying to say, then that is wrong. Postponing into the future is wrong; capturing of gases should be now and not some dream in the future; for it will always be a dream and never a reality for the oil/gas industry.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,924 Points:748,960 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:11:00 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Cdnlynx, I did not quote the scientists, but "a release substantially lower than several widely quoted estimates." certainly could be stated as greatly exaggerated. When one says "My contention with..." disagreeing with the scientific studies reporting something different than their contention (opinion) a red flag should be raised. You have your opinions, I have mine.
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 2:10:38 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse A electronic search of that pdf document. does not support your claim that either of those two scientists stated the following "emissions caused by shale gas production has been greatly exaggerated". They only stated "... a release substantially lower than several widely quoted estimates." I have explained why this is wrong but to no avail, as it is only referring to per each well, that this statement was attributed to! The overall chain of ch4 within this study, did not include ch4 from other sources, or even other green house gases!
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 12:59:40 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse iop science mit scientific study paper, That is the contention between DrPepper/Cdn Lynx! My other link was broken for some unknown reason; hope this links!
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 12:55:07 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse Your additional dialogue was not part of the scientists suposition; it was your own added onto the end of theirs. "Furthermore, for the vast majority of contemporary shale gas wells, the revenues gained from using reduced emissions completions to capture the gas produced during a typical flowback cover the cost of executing such completions." "Revenues gained from using reduced emissions completions"! What are you trying to say; that the monies gained by allowing the venting of natural gas now, will eventually allow them to finance the eventual capture of future fugitive gases. Give me a Break! If that is what your trying to say, then that is wrong. Postponing into the future is wrong; capturing of gases should be now and not some dream in the future; for it will always be a dream and never a reality for the oil/gas industry. If that is what your stating, then your sounding like a slick snake oil salesman!
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 4:54:36 PM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse No, I don't believe there are any omissions that reveal any prejudice; you seem to dislike it if somebody disagrees with you. You have a tendency to resort to negative adjectives. However I still disagree with there and your suppositions; I seen where the two scientists state the the entire natural gas chain only contributes (you stated 3.4%, believe the paper stated 3.1% of only the ch4 portion, (natural gas including the methane). My contention with this is two fold; one being it's my stance that 10,259 Gg of natural gas alone as a GreenHouseGas is too much; combined with ch4 from other sources (ie. methane from other source, landfills, sewage treatment (not all is captured) and animal waste manure, then the methane vented into the upper atmosphere is too, much. Estimated at 10% as green house gas. The other greenhouse gas of 90% for carbon dioxide (CO2)is also too much. The capture rate must be increased. I see the industry's dilemma; well sites are in many cases remotely situated and the build up of methane is explosive and must be dealt with expeditiously, so it is either burned off or just allowed to escape. This quick solution now for them will be disastrous over time for all. Now I see what people are saying re: the mixing of light with flares; however the heat given off from flares should be far more significant & discernible; the Suomi NPP Polar sat, that was launched to be help determine the extent global warming should be able to differentiate between light and heat! I have stated, that I wish people would stop linking to biased sources; I have never, to my recollection done so. It was not me, that linked the Daily Mail article; you stating that it is biased is a supposition by yourself. The Daily Mail is no different then say the NY Times. Biased sources would be Greenpeace or an organization sponsored by the oil/gas industry, or some other outlet that good possibly gain by their assertions/suppositions. In another thread; you made the same remark (I believe it was the Oil&Gas Journal) that it was biased (I concur, it is biased) and that I had linked to it. I have never linked to prove any of my arguments, assertions or suppositions. We have discussed/disagreed with other questionable articles, including the Oil&Gas Journal. There was a previous thread that we were discussing, that I have looked at in detail and have gave more comments; however you have dropped off the radar; suspect you thought our conversations were over! "Study finds shale gas not as clean as thought"; disappointing, as I had more to say!
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,924 Points:748,960 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 10:04:53 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse You are very welcome for the link to the report Cdnlynx. However, your ommissions reveal your prejudice. For those interested in the conclusion of the study: "Taking actual field practice into account, we estimate that in 2010 the total fugitive GHG emissions from US shale gas-related hydraulic fracturing amounted to 216 Gg CH4. This represents 3.6% of the estimated 6002 Gg CH4 of fugitive emissions from all natural gas production-related sources in that year (EPA 2012a, 2012b). The entire natural gas value chain is estimated to have produced 10 259 Gg CH4 of fugitive emissions in 2010, or about 3.1% of the nation’s total GHG inventory (EPA 2012a, 2012b). Thus under a goal of GHG reduction it is clear that increased efforts must be made to reduce fugitive losses from this system. However, it is also clear is that the production of shale gas and specifically, the associated hydraulic fracturing operations have not materially altered the total GHG emissions from the natural gas sector. Furthermore, for the vast majority of contemporary shale gas wells, the revenues gained from using reduced emissions completions to capture the gas produced during a typical flowback cover the cost of executing such completions." 1. The ENTIRE natural gas value chain has produced about 3.1% of the nation’s total GHG inventory. In other words, of all the "GHG" emmissions produced by the U.S. only that small fraction is from NG production. 2. MIT scientists with this study revealed that the amount of methane emissions caused by shale gas production has been greatly exaggerated. 3. It would be great to recover more than this rather small amount but only time will tell on that. 4. As pointed out earlier, the Daily Mail would have you believe that all that light is only from gas flares? Please don't insult our intelligence. 5. Didn't Cdnlynx say he/she wished folks would not link stories from biased sources? [Edited by: drpepperTX at 1/30/2013 10:08:32 AM EST]
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,018 Points:520,990 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:56:26 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse Shale gas production: potential versus actual greenhouse gas emissions In regards to the total amount of flaring (burning off); currently 15%, of natural gas in America; there is an additional problem, venting (unburned) of 15% of natural gas into the upper atmosphere! It's estimated that only 70% of Natural gas is captured!. I would like to thank Dr.PepperTx for the following Scientific article, that he brought up in a previous thread; (Thread that he is no longer discussing) ( http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/4/044030/pdf/1748-9326_7_4_044030.pdf )! Article quoted, "However, our main estimate of actual fugitive emissions is based on a ‘current field practice gas handling scenario, where 70% of potential fugitives are captured, 15% vented, and 15% flared. This we believe is a reasonable representation of current gas handling practices in the major shale (EPA 2012b)". So, when watching this video, you're seeing that 15% burn off at 2010 estimates (possilby more now)! The other problem not seen is another 15% of natural gas (including ch4, methane) that is actually being allowed to be vented into the upper atmosphere (not burned off)! This venting is only the estimated 15% from the 4000 gas wells in 2010, there are other sources (ie agriculture etc) that allow ch4 escape into the upper atmosphere. This multiplys the problem! I urge you to read the above report, for it is estimated that 10,259 Gg, (1 Gg = 1 million kilograms or 2.2046 million pounds) was released for the entire natural gas chain for 2010. My personal opinion that this is too much; however since it is only 3.1% of the total GHG for the U.S. Dr.Pepper along with the authors do not believe it to be too much. I would like you to realize that this is only the ch4 (methane portion) which is only accounts for 10% of the total gases incorporated into the GHG; CO2 is the primary culprit when discussing GreenHouseGases, in additon to this there are two other gases that contribute to GreenHouseGas (GHG), they are Nitrous Oxide and Fluorinated Gases! I would like to bring your attention to the following EPA site re: GreenhouseGases -( http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases.html ) EPA - Climate change / Green House Gas Emissions
remay Champion Author Houston Posts:6,943 Points:2,113,390 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 8:44:28 AM Ignore remay Report Abuse This is nothing new. More attempts to sensationalize ...
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,066 Points:1,618,325 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:43:00 AM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse It takes a 'view' from space to learn how arrogantly these firms act without concern for the earth we must all share with these polluting dolts. I suppose this is just one more industry 'standard'. What a disgusting shame!
RitaVespa Champion Author Oregon Posts:2,956 Points:787,385 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 12:40:01 AM Ignore RitaVespa Report Abuse Ugh!
Night Owl Champion Author Toronto Posts:7,530 Points:1,782,600 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:39:07 PM Ignore Night Owl Report Abuse This waste is shameful.
Endoman5000 Veteran Author Michigan Posts:460 Points:347,750 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:30:05 PM Ignore Endoman5000 Report Abuse How about we think about capturing this "excess" prior to us having excess! Reactionary thinking! Arrrgh
Mark8601 All-Star Author Bakersfield Posts:913 Points:378,765 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 7:45:18 PM Ignore Mark8601 Report Abuse Gas plants are being built as we read to capture this resource.
bwatchingu Champion Author Arkansas Posts:1,725 Points:596,745 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 6:17:58 PM Ignore bwatchingu Report Abuse interesting
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,054 Points:1,444,325 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 4:12:23 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse This practice has been going on for decades. And it never made sense to just burn off that natural gas.
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,047 Points:1,381,005 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 3:56:59 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse More evidence of the greed and arrogance of this industry. Thanks for sharing WonderfulMI.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,058 Points:2,367,370 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 3:38:44 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse the price for no pipeline advocates
Discovery02 Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:2,520 Points:305,915 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 1:35:46 PM Ignore Discovery02 Report Abuse This needs a smart mind to develop a way to capture and use this flare off for some good use instead of just wasting it.
SycamoreISU Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,040 Points:257,935 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 1:21:44 PM Ignore SycamoreISU Report Abuse Just because the gas is there does NOT necessarily mean it's easy to reclaim.
eschroth442 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,064 Points:328,220 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 1:20:59 PM Ignore eschroth442 Report Abuse looks like an opportunity of rsomeone to come up with a way to harness this fuel and sell the power.
stealthvan Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:147 Points:262,635 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 12:54:04 PM Ignore stealthvan Report Abuse What a shame! Maybe we should take all that money that we are spending on extending unemployment and put people to work instead!
bluetruck54 Champion Author Quad Cities Posts:1,453 Points:439,760 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 12:44:06 PM Ignore bluetruck54 Report Abuse very intereting: "more economical to burn it than to sell it" very telling.......
ObieDog Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,956 Points:847,745 Joined:Sep 2010	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 12:25:55 PM Ignore ObieDog Report Abuse SMH !!!
qwerty17 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,630 Points:1,113,675 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 12:20:06 PM Ignore qwerty17 Report Abuse put a lid on it please.
truvoice1 Champion Author San Diego Posts:1,273 Points:470,040 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 12:04:35 PM Ignore truvoice1 Report Abuse Somehow they need to recapture that gas!
CityCouponer All-Star Author New Orleans Posts:913 Points:197,255 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 11:49:36 AM Ignore CityCouponer Report Abuse Waste not, want not.
DesertRat2011 Champion Author Riverside Posts:3,597 Points:481,055 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:46:59 AM Ignore DesertRat2011 Report Abuse Put the gas to a good use give it away to for home use
bigt61 All-Star Author Virginia Posts:652 Points:202,990 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:42:25 AM Ignore bigt61 Report Abuse Thank goodness people are saving the planet by driving a Prius or Leaf! On a serious note, instead of just subsidizing windmills and solar panels, let's give some incentive to capture and storage of the excess gas. Let's get more homes on clean burning gas heat and off oil burning just from an air pollution standpoint.
mastermariner Champion Author Texas Posts:4,236 Points:490,310 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:36:36 AM Ignore mastermariner Report Abuse Oil and gas come together
evowner Champion Author Salem Posts:2,157 Points:354,355 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:34:53 AM Ignore evowner Report Abuse That's the corporate oil lobby we subsidize.
TripleHs Champion Author Austin Posts:3,355 Points:915,140 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:32:29 AM Ignore TripleHs Report Abuse wow, that's all i can say
jimgraham Champion Author Akron Posts:10,348 Points:1,975,130 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:25:02 AM Ignore jimgraham Report Abuse That has been going on since the beginning of time. At least now they are starting to capture some of the gas and use it to power the well site instead of diesel fuel.
No1ConMan All-Star Author Memphis Posts:985 Points:210,190 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:10:26 AM Ignore No1ConMan Report Abuse Waste not, period!
VomVom Champion Author Calgary Posts:3,857 Points:1,627,080 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:08:19 AM Ignore VomVom Report Abuse Light = flare? Only the liberal left wingnuts will come up with that correlation!!
fuel2use Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,468 Points:729,325 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:06:07 AM Ignore fuel2use Report Abuse Infrastructure needed.
BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:8,697 Points:1,577,880 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:58:42 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse Cellsite wrote: "Why can't this just be capped until storage or transportation is available?" ========================================= Not possible to extract the oil and leave the gas. It's also unlikely that it will ever be economically viable to capture, transport, and store the natural gas.
nozzle46 Champion Author Little Rock Posts:6,680 Points:1,470,775 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:55:56 AM Ignore nozzle46 Report Abuse Exactly, cellsite.
Cellsite Champion Author Appleton Posts:1,218 Points:283,700 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:53:36 AM Ignore Cellsite Report Abuse Also, who says this light seen from space is actually from flaring? I pretty sure North Dakota has electricity and lights on and around these oil fields.
Cellsite Champion Author Appleton Posts:1,218 Points:283,700 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:51:21 AM Ignore Cellsite Report Abuse Why can't this just be capped until storage or transportation is available?
angel4me Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,814 Points:793,045 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:49:23 AM Ignore angel4me Report Abuse wow.......
slgas Champion Author Houston Posts:6,010 Points:1,557,790 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:48:34 AM Ignore slgas Report Abuse Maybe we don't have a foolproof approach to all this freaking fracking.
OTISFL Champion Author Pensacola Posts:4,590 Points:861,815 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:46:36 AM Ignore OTISFL Report Abuse Crazy!!
uglytom Champion Author Florida Posts:7,464 Points:1,542,015 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:45:32 AM Ignore uglytom Report Abuse How can this be allowed?
amoshins Champion Author Trenton Posts:2,185 Points:638,095 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:44:21 AM Ignore amoshins Report Abuse I had no idea this was the result of fracking....I hope someone comes up with a better way to use this gas
TC5504 All-Star Author West Virginia Posts:920 Points:190,010 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:43:19 AM Ignore TC5504 Report Abuse Ok
boatcatawba Sophomore Author Cleveland Posts:201 Points:141,910 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:43:04 AM Ignore boatcatawba Report Abuse Why are things like this, still going on?