Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    5:44 AM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: U.S. forecast as No. 2 economy, but energy independent Back to Topics
angel4me

Champion Author
San Jose

Posts:2,814
Points:841,745
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 3:33:14 AM

Washington - A new intelligence assessment of global trends projects that China will outstrip the United States as the leading economic power before 2030, but that America will remain an indispensable world leader, bolstered in part by an era of energy independence.

Russia's clout will wane, as will the economic strength of other countries reliant on oil for revenue, the assessment says.

The product of four years of intelligence-gathering and analysis, the study, by the National Intelligence Council, presents grounds for optimism and pessimism in nearly equal measure. The council reports to the director of national intelligence and has responsibilities for long-term strategic analysis.

"The spectacular rise of Asian economies is dramatically altering .?.?. U.S. influence," said
Visit Journal Sentinel for full article
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 11:13:43 PM


52mpg...what a hoot! Gimme some proof before blowing your mouth off!
Profile Pic
scu227
Champion Author New Haven

Posts:7,934
Points:1,462,330
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 8:30:01 AM

When you are #2 you try harder.
Profile Pic
DanMtz
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:6,248
Points:1,934,165
Joined:Oct 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:59:25 PM

No doubt we'll still be borrowing money from China in 2030.
Profile Pic
andy1024
Champion Author Allentown

Posts:4,531
Points:1,082,805
Joined:Dec 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:24:40 PM

With the mounting debt, broken infrastructure, rampant greed in Wall Street, US will be lucky just to keep up. Every politician is paying lip service but sadly there is no action to change status quo.
Profile Pic
bwatchingu
Champion Author Arkansas

Posts:4,594
Points:1,291,300
Joined:Jan 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:11:40 PM

interesting
Profile Pic
PDQBlues
Champion Author San Diego

Posts:9,953
Points:2,136,000
Joined:Jan 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 1:12:17 PM


52MPG: I bet BO wants the US lower than number 2.

That's a bet you loose.

So far, many of these political predictions have been wrong.
Profile Pic
52MPG
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:10,148
Points:2,430,925
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:31:08 AM

I bet BO wants the US lower than number 2.
Profile Pic
JDchefF
Champion Author Lancaster

Posts:1,509
Points:332,895
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:23:55 AM

National Intelligence, yeah right! Not with the current politicians in office.
Profile Pic
darkform
Veteran Author Illinois

Posts:391
Points:468,840
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:06:27 AM

interesting
Profile Pic
orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

Posts:6,569
Points:1,393,685
Joined:Jan 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:49:35 AM

Energy independence? Based on a LOT of assumptions, all of them going favourably. There might be an 'overall' net independence on 'total' energy, but that does NOT mean the US will not be still importing a lot of crude oil, and very very heavily dependent on that imported crude oil to make certain liquid fuels which, if they were not there in sufficient quantity, everything would grind to a halt.

Unless there is a massive and almost magical shift away from using liquid fuels for heating and transportation, the US will still be importing crude oil. Think tight oil will magically replace all the imported oil, in the next few years? Half an hour of checking out stats, a calculator, and some common sense will dispel that little myth. Fracked oil is a very tiny portion of all the oil used, and a tiny portion of the imported oil, and while the growth is impressive, it is a very tall mountain to climb just to replace the 'currently imported' portion. Flatout--20+ years, possibly up to 30 years...and that assumes that the existing domestic conventional oil doesn't decline in the meantime which it definitely will and is definitely doing right now. So, instead of 20 years, there is an equivalent of 40-50 years to replace all imported and all (by then dead, used up) conventional oil, and again, at the current flat out rate, and also if the horrendous and growing problems of infrastructure, water, transport, manpower, money for endless investment can all be magically whisked away.

Hydrogen fuel cells? Never--just for show, like turbine cars or flying cars, to point out it could be done, technically--if you ignore cost and utility. First of all, how and from what are you going to get the pure hydrogen? Come back when you have rearranged all the laws of physics that will make pure hydrogen on earth both cheap and plentiful.

Lots of nuclear? Possibly, but not probably. Nuclear is fine when it is built and running. Its building it, and even worse, re-building at the end of its useful life, that is incredibly expensive. Have a local plant that cost more to re-outfit for another 25-30 years than it cost to build in the first place...over $2 Billion and counting.

Natural gas? Lovely--yes, it will replace some liquid fuels, but you can't fly airplanes with it, and its very low energy compared to liquid fuels. Think of a fireplace--run out of nice dry aged oak and maple just in time for winter? No problem--just spend every day cutting down poplar and birch and no need for it to dry--it'll burn when green. Doesn't provide much heat and doesn't last any time, but the exercise will keep you warm! That, in a sentence is the promise of natural gas replacing liquid fuels made from crude oil or from biological equivalents. You will, like burning green wood, also need a lot more of it to do the same work as a liquid fuel, because gases just have a lot less energy than the liquid fuels.

The only way the US will be oil independent--because that is the real prize--is if the transportation sector switches massively to electric. Electric cars-hybrid plug-in electrics at over 80% of all vehicles on road, Electric trolley buses and streetcars and subways, electric powered freight and passenger trains, and very little air travel. Above all, there would have to be at least some PV electric panels on each roof to charge up all the electric vehicles. Won't need as many as if you were running everything in your house on them, but about 3-4 should do it per vehicle, just to save grid load from an extreme massive shift in use from gasoline/diesel/and natural gas, to electric.
Profile Pic
BlueVanGroup
Champion Author Fort Collins

Posts:10,521
Points:2,205,180
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:20:16 AM


This article assumes a miracle will occur, and we won't collapse under the weight of unprecedented debt.
Profile Pic
bruin19MD
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:1,140
Points:181,505
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:06:55 AM

Interesting article
Profile Pic
OTISFL
Champion Author Pensacola

Posts:5,993
Points:1,160,510
Joined:Apr 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:04:35 AM

I agree with 'Car253'
Profile Pic
eschroth442
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:2,859
Points:793,105
Joined:Nov 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:51:58 AM

just someone's or a groups opinion
Profile Pic
fora_7
Champion Author Montreal

Posts:3,771
Points:896,725
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:50:54 AM

Hard to beat China. Who would accept to earn in a month what we earn here in a day. But the country is getting very rich...
Profile Pic
bcline909
Veteran Author Virginia

Posts:401
Points:80,170
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:15:13 AM

oh china
Profile Pic
scu227
Champion Author New Haven

Posts:7,934
Points:1,462,330
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:15:11 AM

OK
Profile Pic
car253
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:9,004
Points:2,121,960
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:09:43 AM

With Obama we will be lucky not to fall to Third World status.
Profile Pic
evowner
Champion Author Salem

Posts:5,393
Points:1,041,330
Joined:May 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:06:02 AM

National Intelligence Council four year study seems to be reporting a reasonable finding according to facts in the news.
Profile Pic
cheapchickKY
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:7,143
Points:1,482,890
Joined:Jan 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:49:24 AM

Opinion presented as fact.
Profile Pic
Eagle3236
Champion Author Missouri

Posts:3,973
Points:886,925
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:41:16 AM

Hopefully we can remain #1 economy. Low energy prices would help us! We need to build the Keystone pipeline ASAP. Also building more nuclear power plants would be helpful.
Profile Pic
coughlin
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:6,662
Points:1,449,810
Joined:Sep 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:40:29 AM

Young people should learn Mandarin.
Profile Pic
lcleveland
Champion Author San Antonio

Posts:3,765
Points:1,246,420
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:26:45 AM

USA will always be #1
Profile Pic
amoshins
Champion Author Trenton

Posts:4,089
Points:1,255,070
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:18:43 AM

makes sense
Profile Pic
wrunner
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:7,406
Points:1,825,950
Joined:Dec 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:13:21 AM

Not a surprise, it is.
Profile Pic
GingoutMD
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:4,862
Points:1,035,755
Joined:Jan 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:11:56 AM

China has been on the upward move for decades and Obama has nothing to do with this issue. In fact, if Bush hadn't sent us into an economic spiral and made the taxpayers pay for two wars with no funding we may not have been in this boat, but then again, I doubt it would have mattered.
Profile Pic
graceman
Champion Author Baltimore

Posts:4,968
Points:1,158,725
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:09:42 AM

Hopefully this wont happen.
Profile Pic
Evilmaddog
Champion Author British Columbia

Posts:6,204
Points:1,645,115
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 8:03:34 AM

government speculation
Profile Pic
katmandue
Champion Author Detroit

Posts:9,416
Points:2,412,570
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:55:22 AM

No such thing as energy independence.
Profile Pic
amerk73
Champion Author Dallas

Posts:9,899
Points:2,310,695
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:53:42 AM

no more oil 2030
Profile Pic
brbaritone
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:3,912
Points:2,357,825
Joined:Jan 2007
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:46:58 AM

Will this 'energy independence' result in lower prices?
Profile Pic
doeslayersr
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:12,625
Points:1,562,155
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:45:59 AM

I am sure the current administration is tickled of bringing down the USA a notch.
Profile Pic
dandvicb
Champion Author Bridgeport

Posts:3,113
Points:1,699,515
Joined:Jul 2004
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:41:55 AM

Thanks Obuma!!
Profile Pic
Yooperheart
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:6,775
Points:1,217,525
Joined:Feb 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:30:28 AM

Welcome to the Third world.
Profile Pic
gfox4810
Champion Author Kalamazoo

Posts:3,010
Points:1,030,700
Joined:Jul 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:21:09 AM

Don't blame me...I didn't vote for him.
Profile Pic
Joeski1
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:13,634
Points:2,432,435
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:13:37 AM

I'll make a note of it.
Profile Pic
gs7101
Champion Author San Antonio

Posts:8,177
Points:558,215
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:10:40 AM

Never count out the United States of America!
Profile Pic
gcalleja
Champion Author Miami

Posts:3,150
Points:1,203,190
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:58:37 AM

But aren't the Chinese buying all of our oil assets too?
Profile Pic
MImusicman
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:4,776
Points:1,099,050
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:52:42 AM

Sooner if the Prez as his way
Profile Pic
Nancy&Len
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:4,757
Points:2,598,875
Joined:Sep 2004
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:38:05 AM

It will actually happen much sooner with the current and planned future economic policies of this administration.
Profile Pic
Straitliner
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:4,470
Points:923,205
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:18:52 AM

Thats a good way to describe it, a #2, you all know what it means to go #2?
Profile Pic
pscamp
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:7,080
Points:1,034,710
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:15:45 AM

Really??
Profile Pic
yardslave
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,485
Points:1,288,060
Joined:Dec 2005
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 6:11:26 AM

Ok...
Profile Pic
TxMtb
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:4,214
Points:995,805
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:59:57 AM

Like we didn't see this one coming.
Profile Pic
OHIO50
Champion Author Denver

Posts:3,790
Points:1,710,675
Joined:Mar 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:57:11 AM

Surprise.
Profile Pic
N1SJK
Sophomore Author New Hampshire

Posts:235
Points:487,110
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:52:23 AM

Who's surprised?
Profile Pic
pilotmass
Champion Author Boston

Posts:4,943
Points:1,190,540
Joined:Jul 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:16:29 AM

Energy sources the new world economic weapon.

And our Arsenal is loaded!
Profile Pic
werich44
Champion Author California

Posts:4,741
Points:1,151,865
Joined:Jun 2011
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:03:28 AM

Be sure to thank King obama.
Profile Pic
Pozole
Champion Author Portland

Posts:17,682
Points:2,286,345
Joined:Mar 2005
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 4:59:19 AM

...no one can stay on top [oppress] forever...
Profile Pic
grandpadon28110
Champion Author Charlotte

Posts:7,609
Points:1,829,115
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 4:57:05 AM

Bad.
Profile Pic
APlus
Champion Author San Antonio

Posts:4,602
Points:1,299,595
Joined:Apr 2007
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 4:35:16 AM

We need energy independence and to manufacture more items here
Post a reply Back to Topics