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Author	Topic: Rise in renewable energy will require more use of fossil fuels	Post a Reply Back to Topics

Huntingdog Champion Author Oakland Posts:14,200 Points:2,789,335 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 2:33:57 PM Ignore Huntingdog Report Abuse The Delta Energy Center, a power plant about an hour outside San Francisco, was roaring at nearly full bore one day last month, its four gas and steam turbines churning out 880 megawatts of electricity to the California grid. On the horizon, across an industrial shipping channel on the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, scores of wind turbines stood dead still. The air was too calm to turn their blades — or many others across the state that day. Wind provided just 33 megawatts of power statewide in the midafternoon, less than 1% of the potential from wind farms capable of producing 4,000 megawatts of electricity. Visit LA Times for full article

Huntingdog

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Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 2:33:57 PM

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The Delta Energy Center, a power plant about an hour outside San Francisco, was roaring at nearly full bore one day last month, its four gas and steam turbines churning out 880 megawatts of electricity to the California grid.

On the horizon, across an industrial shipping channel on the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, scores of wind turbines stood dead still. The air was too calm to turn their blades — or many others across the state that day. Wind provided just 33 megawatts of power statewide in the midafternoon, less than 1% of the potential from wind farms capable of producing 4,000 megawatts of electricity.
Visit LA Times for full article

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LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,615 Points:1,207,555 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 10:30:02 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Bears repeating, "large capacity energy storage will be needed for wind and solar energy if to be depended upon for extended periods of time". -IFueler Excellent point!
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,968 Points:755,135 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:42:40 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Renewables are just weak, period.
ClarkSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,093 Points:1,014,330 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:39:03 AM Ignore ClarkSC Report Abuse It will require subsidies.
djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:10,114 Points:2,351,530 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 2:53:12 AM Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse At times like this I wonder just how much the wind energy is costing when it has to be augmented by real and dependable power supplies that are probably bought on the spot market at a higher rate. Thank goodness for Jerry Brown and his Ship Of Fools. But then it is hard for me to feel sorry for the fools that elected him, they got what they voted for. [Edited by: djgunrunner at 12/11/2012 2:54:27 AM EST]
iFueler Champion Author Durham Posts:64,458 Points:181,450 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 12:47:44 AM Ignore iFueler Report Abuse large capacity energy storage will be needed for wind and solar energy if to be depended upon for extended periods of time
EdWoods Veteran Author Maryland Posts:432 Points:65,370 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:22:57 PM Ignore EdWoods Report Abuse Idiots Abound.......
doghaulr Rookie Author Denver Posts:62 Points:17,605 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 9:21:42 PM Ignore doghaulr Report Abuse Well duh, it takes power to make the 'parts' for the windmills even if they aren't churning, don't see them making these 'renewable' parts from renewable energy....renewable is for 'back-up' as we don't have anything stable other than geothermal or fossil fuels. Solar = cloudy, wind power well sometimes the wind doesn't blow, well unless obummer is talking, maybe just have him stand in front of a farm of windmills and tell him to keep up his 'promises'!!
nsdp Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,117 Points:47,340 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 7:05:35 PM Ignore nsdp Report Abuse This is an old old old story. Texas has been dealing with this for 10 years now. Renewables other than geothermal are erratic but the low amount of fuel used to provide spinning reserve is maybe 10% of the fuel they replace. Load tracking is done with NG and the wind shuts down coal. So fuel saved is about equal to the amount to coal shut down because of 30% better efficiency rates for the NG plants and the NG plants at FULL load only use 40% of the water a coal plant does. That really makes a difference in California, Arizona and Nevada. The reporter rather blindly ignored the pumped storage and hydro operated by the US Bureau of Reclamation in the WECC. Another reporter who needs to go back to school and take geology and anatomy. That way the reporter would know their ass from a hole in the ground. Don't put to much faith in any story you read on the net. Remember the authors are English majors who usually know next to nothing about what they write. GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT. [Edited by: nsdp at 12/10/2012 7:11:54 PM EST]
kag2010 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:5,274 Points:1,023,660 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 5:49:11 PM Ignore kag2010 Report Abuse They have no incentive to do so.
csblesson Champion Author Texas Posts:1,826 Points:355,825 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 5:00:46 PM Ignore csblesson Report Abuse Oh yes! This this the absolute truth
Rappcommuter Veteran Author Virginia Posts:478 Points:557,300 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 3:15:41 PM Ignore Rappcommuter Report Abuse Let's think about this, if there weren't any renewable resources, wouldn't we still require at least as much of the fossil fuels?
uglytom Champion Author Florida Posts:7,464 Points:1,542,015 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 3:09:48 PM Ignore uglytom Report Abuse ANOTHER UNEXPECTED OCCURENCE!
doggod Champion Author Anchorage Posts:2,863 Points:744,285 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 2:50:12 PM Ignore doggod Report Abuse >> Borenstein said state legislators and the governor did not consider all of the details, such as unleashing this new demand for fossil fuel generators, when they set the 33% mandate for renewable energy.<< Of course not. They have no incentive to do so. Their only incentive is to do things that will make them look good in the short term so they can get re-elected.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,336 Points:2,374,295 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 2:49:32 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse reality strikes eco nutz recoil