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Author	Topic: Energy group responds to fracking and livestock story	Post a Reply Back to Topics

carbuilder Rookie Author Detroit Posts:78 Points:90,360 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:42:26 AM Ignore carbuilder Report Abuse First of all, the flaws in the Bamberger-Oswald study have been publicly documented. Dr. Ian Rae, for example, a Co-Chair of the Chemicals Technical Options Committee for the U.N. Environment Programme, called the study “an advocacy piece” written by individuals who “cannot be regarded as experts” in the subject about which they were writing. “It certainly does not qualify as a scientific paper,” Rae added. Rae also critiqued the journal that published the study – New Solutions: A Journal of Environmental and Occupational Health – by saying “the refereeing process evidently was not very stringent.” Visit Energy in depth for full article

carbuilder

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Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:42:26 AM

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First of all, the flaws in the Bamberger-Oswald study have been publicly documented. Dr. Ian Rae, for example, a Co-Chair of the Chemicals Technical Options Committee for the U.N. Environment Programme, called the study “an advocacy piece” written by individuals who “cannot be regarded as experts” in the subject about which they were writing. “It certainly does not qualify as a scientific paper,” Rae added. Rae also critiqued the journal that published the study – New Solutions: A Journal of Environmental and Occupational Health – by saying “the refereeing process evidently was not very stringent.”
Visit Energy in depth for full article

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teenitup Champion Author Houston Posts:1,670 Points:251,135 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:25:04 PM Ignore teenitup Report Abuse 2007 and 2011, I get it drpeppertx!
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,609 Points:1,206,580 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:41:43 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Bear repeating: iFueler... "two sides, in the case of fracking if an open and honest disclosure of the facts, i.e. chemicals and processes used etc, could be agreed upon, then public policy could be fairly debated..." Can't imagine why a Blog funded by Big Oil/Gas (Launched by the Independent Petroleum Association of America (IPAA) in 2009) could have this opinion! [Edited by: LetemEatCake at 12/6/2012 11:45:08 PM EST]
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,953 Points:754,120 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 7:51:42 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Teafortwo and letmeeatcake, 2007 and 2011.....LMAO! Conspiracy theorists! The truth shall always let you free! [Edited by: drpepperTX at 12/6/2012 7:54:50 PM EST]
teenitup Champion Author Houston Posts:1,670 Points:251,135 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 6:34:58 PM Ignore teenitup Report Abuse MAC48, <<"There is no intelligent reason to suspect that fracking is a long term problem for agricultural endeavors or the national food supplies...">> You are correct, but I have not seen any intelligent reasoning on behalf of those against fracking whatsoever. A great example posted by Teafortwo <<"Good to see that the site has decided to allow the posting of blogs with altered headlines ... Well .... as long as they are proindustry propaganda pieces :0\ Is "carbuilder" another new alias account for drpeppertx?">> Where's intelligent reasoning in that statement?
MAC48 Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,550 Points:767,900 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:11:17 PM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse The referenced Bamberger-Oswald paper and the article in the The Nation magazine based on the Bamberger-Oswald paper are simply propaganda pieces designed to perpetuate and heighten the “sky is falling” hype of those persons who are opposed to hydraulic fracturing technology and activity. Both of these very “yellow journalism” efforts are very adequately refuted by this current article in response to the article in the The Nation magazine. There is no intelligent reason to suspect that fracking is a long term problem for agricultural endeavors or the national food supplies & any short term problem can be resolved by disciplining any careless or reckless drilling operators. Since fracking as we know it today has been going on for the last 45+ years, one would think that any massive threat posed by fracking technology would have surfaced many years ago. It is beyond rational thought to suspect that the farmers and ranchers in Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana have let fracking be conducted on their property for many decades if it in any way posed a significant threat to their crops, their herds or their continued long term use of their land.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,609 Points:1,206,580 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 8:24:56 AM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse You may have a point there Teafortwo!
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,132 Points:1,387,015 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:11:17 AM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse Good to see that the site has decided to allow the posting of blogs with altered headlines ... Well .... as long as they are proindustry propaganda pieces :0\ Is "carbuilder" another new alias account for drpeppertx?
iFueler Champion Author Durham Posts:64,433 Points:180,475 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 2:04:00 AM Ignore iFueler Report Abuse two sides, in the case of fracking if an open and honest disclosure of the facts, i.e. chemicals and processes used etc, could be agreed upon, then public policy could be fairly debated...
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,084 Points:1,450,275 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:03:32 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse LetemEatCake: My Oh My! Not only is this article article a BLOG, but this is the real Headline: "UPDATE The Truth about Food, Ag and Hydraulic Fracturing" Both are verboten under GB Guidelines! Oh, you know very well those rules of restriction apply only to the truth. The fact is that many of the chemicals used in fracking are kept secret from the public, and many of them are highly toxic. The fracking industry's answer: ignore that man behind the current.
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,024 Points:524,960 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:36:54 PM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse OrphacarguyPE - Energy in Depth (EiD) blogger Steve, I have problems with his links (questionable info) within the article. Now, re: bonus points in reading the article you mentioned; in order to help some on GB's find the article (listed here) The Nation - Fracking our food supply! Very interesting read! It is only a matter of time before Fracing(Fracking) will be shown to be a evil lurking beneath! LetemEatCake - albeit, that its a blog and verboten; in fairness to GB's, it comes across (made to appear), as a viable news source/organization. Now that its out there, then it can be brought under scrutiny, for what it really is, an oil & gas interest entity! [Edited by: CdnLynx at 12/5/2012 7:38:03 PM EST]
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,609 Points:1,206,580 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:48:56 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse My Oh My! Not only is this article article a BLOG, but this is the real Headline: "UPDATE The Truth about Food, Ag and Hydraulic Fracturing" Both are verboten under GB Guidelines!
endymion All-Star Author New York Posts:838 Points:173,655 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 5:15:11 PM Ignore endymion Report Abuse So why the secrecy behind the chemicals and process in fracking? No fracking in my watersupply, please.
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,856 Points:736,900 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 12:09:16 PM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse Hmmm...so much for 'Fair and Balanced'! People posting here should question everything So, 'Energy in Depth' pans Elizabeth Royte's article (in collaboration with FERN) in The Nation as "using the fatally flawed Bamberger-Oswald “study” on hydraulic fracturing as the focal point" and pointing out another comment "...called the study “an advocacy piece” written by individuals who “cannot be regarded as experts” in the subject." Of course, Energy in Depth is not a dispassionate and scientific bystander in this. From their website "...Launched by the Independent Petroleum Association of America (IPAA) in 2009,..." it seems they are an advocacy group too, on the pro-fracking side. Fancy that! So, I do have a lot of concerns, largely financial but some technical, about fracking that are just not on the radar (well, not yet) for most of the 'anti-fracking' groups. Really, some of them are, as EID suggests, just wrong about the facts they use to discredit fracking 'as currently practiced' so they do themselves no good by going after the wrong targets. There are some good targets but explaining them is a bit more nuanced and won't fit on a hand-held sign easily. From the EiD website, they do have posted some statements which while all quite correct as far as they go, are a bit shall we say, misdirecting or misleading, in what they omit to say. (One particular one is what I would consider a howler, but might only get them into trouble if, for example, they were trying to sell share in a particular company. You know, disclosure rules and the like) The Bamberger-Oswald study (not "study") aside I'll leave it to other bloggers to figure out what for yourself what is 'wrong' with the critique by 'Steve' For bonus points, it might be fun to read the article in The Nation, and the Bamberger-Oswald study itself, to see what the fuss is about. [Edited by: orphancarguyPE at 12/5/2012 12:12:29 PM EST]
md11capt Champion Author Denver Posts:3,558 Points:711,630 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:52:29 AM Ignore md11capt Report Abuse Energy in Depth (EID) is a pro-oil-and-gas drilling industry front group formed by the American Petroleum Institute, the Independent Petroleum Association of America (IPAA) and dozens of additional industry organizations for the purpose of criticizing the documentary "Gaslands", their latest attempt being a documentary produced by a political attack ad agency for EID, the ironically titled "Truthland"[1] which was exposed as a gas industry infomercial[2] as soon as it was released. The domain for the website promoting the film —Truthlandmovie.com — is owned by gas driller Chesapeake Energy.[3] EID consists of several interrelated fronts in several states, with ties to various PR firms, gas companies and political lobbyists, as detailed by Dory Hippauf in "The Gas Roots". [4][/L] http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Energy_in_Depth
ceklea Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:358 Points:1,289,770 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 10:38:20 AM Ignore ceklea Report Abuse As the article summarizes, "Landowners, farmers, and any other individuals can and should ask questions about the impacts of natural gas development. Those who ask questions should demand answers based on facts, and communities weighing the costs and benefits should, by definition, seek input on both sides and make decisions based on a careful review of that information."
AVKZ All-Star Author Kalamazoo Posts:851 Points:295,000 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:13:45 AM Ignore AVKZ Report Abuse Anybody can shoot holes in any study. Too many variables.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,953 Points:754,120 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:11:48 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Actually they are not an 'advocacy' group, they are an 'anti' group.
rbrk02 Champion Author Rhode Island Posts:5,753 Points:819,180 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:11:05 AM Ignore rbrk02 Report Abuse Good article. doeslayersr is correct. Ms. Royte's original report was nothing more than an agenda driven 'advocacy' piece. carbuilder, Thank you for posting this article.
derKraut Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,097 Points:1,229,240 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:06:27 AM Ignore derKraut Report Abuse Time for the EPA to realize they blew it and just walk away from E 15.
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:7,584 Points:1,458,010 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:35:31 AM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse Some people think that omitting facts make them go away.
molebaby96 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:2,126 Points:506,890 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:30:44 AM Ignore molebaby96 Report Abuse So its safe around natural gas?
sabre75 Champion Author Florida Posts:1,663 Points:340,395 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:21:54 AM Ignore sabre75 Report Abuse Agree with doeslayersr view.. totally!
doeslayersr Champion Author Illinois Posts:9,127 Points:873,955 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:11:19 AM Ignore doeslayersr Report Abuse The truth eventually surfaces as indicated in this article about the report which is nothing but an "advocacy" piece. Thanks for posting this article! Per this article "...Secondly, although the article purports to be part of an “investigative reporting” effort, there was clearly a lack of interest in discussing anything that deviated from the Bamberger-Oswald paper’s conclusions. Here are just a few items relating to health impacts from development that I shared with the author, who nonetheless did not see fit to print: ¦Denton County, Tex.: An analysis by two public health experts found that, “even as natural gas development expanded significantly in the area over the past several years, key indicators of health improved across every major category during those times.” Denton County is situated atop the massive Barnett Shale, one of the largest natural gas fields in the United States. ¦Fort Worth, Tex.: An air quality study conducted for the City of Fort Worth – the largest and most comprehensive of its kind to date – determined there were “no significant health risks” from shale development in the area. Fort Worth, located in Tarrant County, also sits atop the Barnett Shale. ¦Pennsylvania: The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, in two separate reports of air monitoring in Pennsylvania – one each for the northeastern and southwestern portions of the state – “did not identify concentrations of any compound that would likely trigger air-related health issues associated with Marcellus Shale drilling activities.”
gcalleja All-Star Author Miami Posts:924 Points:551,920 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:10:38 AM Ignore gcalleja Report Abuse Untrustworthy studies.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,297 Points:2,373,320 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 7:06:10 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse as most of us realized, the whole thing was hog wash
virostek Veteran Author Virginia Posts:423 Points:90,285 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:58:56 AM Ignore virostek Report Abuse Lots of bulls in this story.
Luckylindy Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,524 Points:1,129,020 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:55:35 AM Ignore Luckylindy Report Abuse Hard to find the truth.
cheap59 Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,240 Points:963,770 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:44:31 AM Ignore cheap59 Report Abuse There are flaws both ways.