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Author	Topic: Solar power plants burden the counties that host them	Post a Reply Back to Topics

BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:8,743 Points:1,585,940 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 10:46:15 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse When it comes to attracting business to California's eastern deserts, Inyo County is none too choosy. ... So the county grew giddy last year as it began to consider hosting a huge, clean industry. BrightSource Energy, developer of the proposed $2.7-billion Hidden Hills solar power plant 230 miles northeast of Los Angeles, promised a bounty of jobs and a windfall in tax receipts. ... But upon closer inspection, the picture didn't seem so rosy. An economic consultant hired by the county found that property tax revenue would be a fraction of the customary amount because portions of the plant qualify for a solar tax exclusion. Fewer than 10 local workers would land permanent positions — and just 5% of the construction jobs would be filled by county residents. Visit LA Times for full article

BurntOrange

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Austin

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 10:46:15 AM

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When it comes to attracting business to California's eastern deserts, Inyo County is none too choosy.
...
So the county grew giddy last year as it began to consider hosting a huge, clean industry. BrightSource Energy, developer of the proposed $2.7-billion Hidden Hills solar power plant 230 miles northeast of Los Angeles, promised a bounty of jobs and a windfall in tax receipts.

...

But upon closer inspection, the picture didn't seem so rosy.

An economic consultant hired by the county found that property tax revenue would be a fraction of the customary amount because portions of the plant qualify for a solar tax exclusion. Fewer than 10 local workers would land permanent positions — and just 5% of the construction jobs would be filled by county residents.
Visit LA Times for full article

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rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,460 Points:2,232,770 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 3:43:33 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse E-Squirrel - "I read this motive in a biography of Henry Ford. I don't remember anymore which exact one that it was, but you may be able to find the quote in a few of them. Its what led Ford to the manufacture of the tractor, before he began to manufacture cars." Ford started building the Model T in 1908. He didn't build his first tractor until 1916. And he started a new company to do that, at least partly to scare investors in Ford Motor Company to sell out to him before he went into competition with them.
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,015 Points:820,970 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 8:57:21 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse rjhenn asks: "Now that's a new one. Where'd you get that from?" History, a much underrated subject. When I was in college, I thought that history was a more or less useless subject to study. I have changed my mind as I have gotten older. I have always been curious about how and why "things work", and I learned, later in life, that history explains why many things are the way that they are today. I read this motive in a biography of Henry Ford. I don't remember anymore which exact one that it was, but you may be able to find the quote in a few of them. Its what led Ford to the manufacture of the tractor, before he began to manufacture cars. Ford's application of mass production techniques eventually lowered the price of a Model T to just $245, and during the war, Ford built, among other war production, such as jeeps, thousands of the Consolidated B-24 Liberator bombers.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,460 Points:2,232,770 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 1:58:17 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse E-Squirrel - "Go back and learn some history. The reason Henry Ford pushed for the middle class buying a car or tractor to replace the horse, was that it was cheaper. If he had been wrong, we would still be riding horses. Ignoring costs just results in wasted capital, labor and a lower standard of living." Now that's a new one. Where'd you get that from?
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,015 Points:820,970 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 10:10:18 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse Lost economically speaking, Gnusman53 opines: "Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)" Go back and learn some history. The reason Henry Ford pushed for the middle class buying a car or tractor to replace the horse, was that it was cheaper. If he had been wrong, we would still be riding horses. Ignoring costs just results in wasted capital, labor and a lower standard of living. Just out of curiosity, did you ever take any economics classes?
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 9:33:45 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse rjhenn..... and the musical soundtrack for e-Squirrel......the "George of the Jungle" theme song on endless loop.... (grin) " WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREEEEEEEEE!!!!!! "
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,460 Points:2,232,770 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:37:53 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Gnusman53 - "Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)" We'd never have tried riding horses in the first place. We'd have stayed up in the trees and probably be extinct by now.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:42:54 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Actually, one thing the story didn't address is that the federal government provides some funding in areas that lead to or are controlled by them...
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:41:40 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse So was going to the moon fiscally feasible? Or fighting WWII???? Sadly, e-Squirrel seems to have crashed into too many trees without a helmet.... (grin)
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:40:15 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,015 Points:820,970 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:59:59 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse TruthMatters asks: "Must everything be decided upon whether it is fiscally feasible or not?" Well, do you propose an alternative? Wishful thinking instead? Practical decisions must be based upon practical reasons. Cost is not the only "practical' reason, but its a major one. If you don't think so, stop buying gas, and start riding a bicycle. [Edited by: E-Squirrel at 11/27/2012 4:01:07 PM EST]
MAC48 Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,551 Points:769,545 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 12:26:20 AM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse All of the counties in California and elsewhere in the US that a solar energy generation project is being built or planned should demand a contract that requires the entity that owns or the governmental authority that demands that the project be built in their county pay a quarterly assessment equal to 150% of the prior quarters total cost incurred by the county for services provided to the project whether or not the power generation project is operating, bankrupt or never finishes construction until such time as the project’s physical plant is removed from the county and the land is returned to its former state prior to the start of the plant construction. . With this type of cost reimbursement (100%) plus adder (50%), the counties will remain whole fiscally and gain enough to justify the future land use loss due to the construction and operation of the solar power generating plant itself and the land use set aside.
bston Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:1,830 Points:644,975 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 10:55:39 PM Ignore bston Report Abuse Probably some sore folks thinking jobs were coming to their area.
TruthMatters Champion Author New Jersey Posts:2,525 Points:536,460 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 9:04:19 PM Ignore TruthMatters Report Abuse Must everything be decided upon whether it is fiscally feasible or not?
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,015 Points:820,970 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:19:57 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse Indicting the voters, xgojim says: "Californians continue to vote for demogogues. How could they complain about "green" projects that benefit no one except for the political careers of these hare-brained individuals?" Yes, they do. Of course, the voter's are never told the truth about how these projects will work out. They are told that it will all be much "rosier" than the reality. Most voters in this state don't understand what they are voting on, and the promoters of these projects go to great lengths to make sure that is true.
teenitup Champion Author Houston Posts:1,679 Points:252,860 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 10:16:43 AM Ignore teenitup Report Abuse I don't think so gnusman53, refineries, oil and gas generate a lot of taxes paid to the local, state and federal governments, lessening the taxpayer burden greatly.
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,588 Points:481,575 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 9:58:52 AM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse "$2 million a year in additional public safety and other services" That's a lot of public safety for a county that counts less than 20,000 people. I just don't see how adding a solar power plant (or any other non-polluting business) can add an expense of over 100$/person.
xgojim All-Star Author Michigan Posts:524 Points:454,020 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 8:24:00 AM Ignore xgojim Report Abuse Californians continue to vote for demogogues. How could they complain about "green" projects that benefit no one except for the political careers of these hare-brained individuals? Here is Mich, citizens were smart enough to vote down this kind of stupidity this month.
ClarkSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,093 Points:1,014,330 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 8:16:14 AM Ignore ClarkSC Report Abuse Agreed.
Piper0072 All-Star Author Rochester Posts:906 Points:384,205 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:17:52 AM Ignore Piper0072 Report Abuse And after the federal handouts run out they will declare bankruptcy and move along looking for the next handout.
Radar1992 Champion Author Florida Posts:1,340 Points:313,090 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:52:55 AM Ignore Radar1992 Report Abuse And the 'Green' Jobs myths continue.... This sounds like Traffic Camera revenue scheme all over again...
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:2,678 Points:1,624,320 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 2:24:12 AM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse If there is nothing in it for the counties. The counties need to get their share of the profits, or forget the whole thing.
iFueler Champion Author Durham Posts:64,458 Points:181,450 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 2:22:02 AM Ignore iFueler Report Abuse evaluation criteria priorities often matter
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:33:48 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse And teen..... less so than refineries..... or toxic waste dumps...
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:32:26 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse And Inyo (and Mono) county have struggled to survive ever since then...
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:30:54 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Given the location.... the county needs to develop a better plan...Inyo was decimated by the LA Aqueduct a hundred years ago..... which siphoned it almost bone dry....
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,026 Points:1,115,345 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:24:40 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Upfront costs often take many years to recapture....even in building a wal-mart....
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,483 Points:665,875 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:18:23 AM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse How long before upfront costs are recaptured? [Edited by: rahcat at 11/26/2012 12:18:52 AM EST]
teenitup Champion Author Houston Posts:1,679 Points:252,860 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:16:35 AM Ignore teenitup Report Abuse Solar appears to be a big burden on the taxpayer.
camel1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:8,285 Points:2,269,540 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:07:28 AM Ignore camel1 Report Abuse ok
BigOyl All-Star Author Wichita Posts:902 Points:352,655 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:03:23 AM Ignore BigOyl Report Abuse But at least they're helping to save the planet! LOL!
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,552 Points:1,861,295 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:02:00 AM Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse What
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,810 Points:416,340 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:00:45 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse ok
Dragnet Champion Author Arizona Posts:15,422 Points:2,911,685 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:00:07 AM Ignore Dragnet Report Abuse They are a burden both financial and maintaining
kbierley Champion Author Dayton Posts:10,730 Points:1,415,690 Joined:Nov 2003	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:59:53 PM Ignore kbierley Report Abuse old
southrob Champion Author Tucson Posts:3,615 Points:691,100 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:55:17 PM Ignore southrob Report Abuse yup tech that does not work. DHAN
TTQuattro Rookie Author Indiana Posts:72 Points:45,060 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:53:51 PM Ignore TTQuattro Report Abuse ok
wang91554 Champion Author San Jose Posts:3,185 Points:1,204,730 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:50:34 PM Ignore wang91554 Report Abuse better than nothing
StArrow68 Champion Author Oakland Posts:3,273 Points:1,364,165 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:49:43 PM Ignore StArrow68 Report Abuse Everybody wants an edge.
CharlieC08 Champion Author Colorado Posts:8,077 Points:1,486,075 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:47:46 PM Ignore CharlieC08 Report Abuse Obummer would fund it.
flyfast Champion Author Kansas City Posts:9,268 Points:1,828,960 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:44:40 PM Ignore flyfast Report Abuse the green rip off
ramshot412 Champion Author Riverside Posts:20,170 Points:2,469,390 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:43:37 PM Ignore ramshot412 Report Abuse "If you read the "FULL ARTICLE" you find out the county is worried about the cost of road improvements and maintiance, fire and police cost. Isn't this always the case with now construction going in? As far as only 10 locals getting jobs, how many people will MOVE THERE and become locals with the new jobs that are being created." Exactly.
bearzz Champion Author California Posts:1,447 Points:422,595 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:42:33 PM Ignore bearzz Report Abuse Doesn't surprise me. I'm skeptical, I believe forcing green energy is a ripoff.
Z51Corvette Champion Author Austin Posts:8,501 Points:1,674,095 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:40:02 PM Ignore Z51Corvette Report Abuse Typical Environmental and Governmental BS... Time to cut the garbage and offer REAL jobs, to RESIDENTS... no outsiders!
Mowerman08 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,775 Points:1,220,920 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:39:13 PM Ignore Mowerman08 Report Abuse Sounds like the sorry results from "clean" energy.
dld1295 Sophomore Author Detroit Posts:177 Points:345,300 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:34:57 PM Ignore dld1295 Report Abuse Time will tell
maxcap59 Champion Author Texas Posts:2,787 Points:596,920 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:34:53 PM Ignore maxcap59 Report Abuse More hidden costs to Odumba's green agenda. This doesn't even talk about what the county will incur when this, like other solar companies, goes bankrupt.
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,916 Points:2,135,505 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:33:45 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse Too expensive for what you get!
nwsynthetics Champion Author Oregon Posts:1,014 Points:347,625 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:32:19 PM Ignore nwsynthetics Report Abuse Drive out towards palm desert. The wind turbines old and new look like crap
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,336 Points:2,374,295 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:28:31 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse and yet, the eco nazi's whine about the xl pipeline
defiancegasman Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,080 Points:1,323,260 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:28:17 PM Ignore defiancegasman Report Abuse If you read the "FULL ARTICLE" you find out the county is worried about the cost of road improvements and maintiance, fire and police cost. Isn't this always the case with now construction going in? As far as only 10 locals getting jobs, how many people will MOVE THERE and become locals with the new jobs that are being created. Seems that someone just is against SOLAR POWER! Sure it cost more to develop now, but again that is true of any new product. IF OIL goes to $500 a barrel, how smart will this investment look then. It still isn't as costly as NUCLEAR POWER and now where near as dangerous.