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Author Topic: Solar power plants burden the counties that host them Back to Topics
BurntOrange

Champion Author
Austin

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 10:46:15 AM

When it comes to attracting business to California's eastern deserts, Inyo County is none too choosy.
...
So the county grew giddy last year as it began to consider hosting a huge, clean industry. BrightSource Energy, developer of the proposed $2.7-billion Hidden Hills solar power plant 230 miles northeast of Los Angeles, promised a bounty of jobs and a windfall in tax receipts.

...

But upon closer inspection, the picture didn't seem so rosy.

An economic consultant hired by the county found that property tax revenue would be a fraction of the customary amount because portions of the plant qualify for a solar tax exclusion. Fewer than 10 local workers would land permanent positions — and just 5% of the construction jobs would be filled by county residents.
Visit LA Times for full article
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 3:43:33 AM

E-Squirrel - "I read this motive in a biography of Henry Ford. I don't remember anymore which exact one that it was, but you may be able to find the quote in a few of them. Its what led Ford to the manufacture of the tractor, before he began to manufacture cars."

Ford started building the Model T in 1908. He didn't build his first tractor until 1916.

And he started a new company to do that, at least partly to scare investors in Ford Motor Company to sell out to him before he went into competition with them.
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 8:57:21 PM

rjhenn asks:

"Now that's a new one. Where'd you get that from?"

History, a much underrated subject. When I was in college, I thought that history was a more or less useless subject to study. I have changed my mind as I have gotten older. I have always been curious about how and why "things work", and I learned, later in life, that history explains why many things are the way that they are today.

I read this motive in a biography of Henry Ford. I don't remember anymore which exact one that it was, but you may be able to find the quote in a few of them. Its what led Ford to the manufacture of the tractor, before he began to manufacture cars.

Ford's application of mass production techniques eventually lowered the price of a Model T to just $245, and during the war, Ford built, among other war production, such as jeeps, thousands of the Consolidated B-24 Liberator bombers.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 1:58:17 AM

E-Squirrel - "Go back and learn some history. The reason Henry Ford pushed for the middle class buying a car or tractor to replace the horse, was that it was cheaper. If he had been wrong, we would still be riding horses. Ignoring costs just results in wasted capital, labor and a lower standard of living."

Now that's a new one. Where'd you get that from?
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 10:10:18 PM

Lost economically speaking, Gnusman53 opines:

"Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)"

Go back and learn some history. The reason Henry Ford pushed for the middle class buying a car or tractor to replace the horse, was that it was cheaper. If he had been wrong, we would still be riding horses. Ignoring costs just results in wasted capital, labor and a lower standard of living.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever take any economics classes?
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 9:33:45 PM

rjhenn..... and the musical soundtrack for e-Squirrel......the "George of the Jungle" theme song on endless loop.... (grin)

" WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREEEEEEEEE!!!!!! "
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:37:53 AM

Gnusman53 - "Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)"

We'd never have tried riding horses in the first place. We'd have stayed up in the trees and probably be extinct by now.
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:42:54 PM

Actually, one thing the story didn't address is that the federal government provides some funding in areas that lead to or are controlled by them...
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:41:40 PM

So was going to the moon fiscally feasible? Or fighting WWII????

Sadly, e-Squirrel seems to have crashed into too many trees without a helmet.... (grin)
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:40:15 PM

Using e-Squirrels equation... we'd still be riding horses and walking...(grin)
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:59:59 PM

TruthMatters asks:

"Must everything be decided upon whether it is fiscally feasible or not?"

Well, do you propose an alternative? Wishful thinking instead? Practical decisions must be based upon practical reasons. Cost is not the only "practical' reason, but its a major one. If you don't think so, stop buying gas, and start riding a bicycle.

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 11/27/2012 4:01:07 PM EST]
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MAC48
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 12:26:20 AM

All of the counties in California and elsewhere in the US that a solar energy generation project is being built or planned should demand a contract that requires the entity that owns or the governmental authority that demands that the project be built in their county pay a quarterly assessment equal to 150% of the prior quarters total cost incurred by the county for services provided to the project whether or not the power generation project is operating, bankrupt or never finishes construction until such time as the project’s physical plant is removed from the county and the land is returned to its former state prior to the start of the plant construction.
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With this type of cost reimbursement (100%) plus adder (50%), the counties will remain whole fiscally and gain enough to justify the future land use loss due to the construction and operation of the solar power generating plant itself and the land use set aside.
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bston
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 10:55:39 PM

Probably some sore folks thinking jobs were coming to their area.
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TruthMatters
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 9:04:19 PM

Must everything be decided upon whether it is fiscally feasible or not?
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:19:57 PM

Indicting the voters, xgojim says:

"Californians continue to vote for demogogues. How could they complain about "green" projects that benefit no one except for the political careers of these hare-brained individuals?"

Yes, they do. Of course, the voter's are never told the truth about how these projects will work out. They are told that it will all be much "rosier" than the reality. Most voters in this state don't understand what they are voting on, and the promoters of these projects go to great lengths to make sure that is true.
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teenitup
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 10:16:43 AM

I don't think so gnusman53, refineries, oil and gas generate a lot of taxes paid to the local, state and federal governments, lessening the taxpayer burden greatly.
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crep1291
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 9:58:52 AM

"$2 million a year in additional public safety and other services"

That's a lot of public safety for a county that counts less than 20,000 people. I just don't see how adding a solar power plant (or any other non-polluting business) can add an expense of over 100$/person.
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xgojim
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 8:24:00 AM

Californians continue to vote for demogogues. How could they complain about "green" projects that benefit no one except for the political careers of these hare-brained individuals? Here is Mich, citizens were smart enough to vote down this kind of stupidity this month.
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ClarkSC
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 8:16:14 AM

Agreed.
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Piper0072
Champion Author Rochester

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:17:52 AM

And after the federal handouts run out they will declare bankruptcy and move along looking for the next handout.
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Radar1992
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:52:55 AM

And the 'Green' Jobs myths continue....

This sounds like Traffic Camera revenue scheme all over again...
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Amtrgas
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 2:24:12 AM

If there is nothing in it for the counties. The counties need to get their share of the profits, or forget the whole thing.
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iFueler
Champion Author Durham

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 2:22:02 AM

evaluation criteria priorities often matter
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:33:48 AM

And teen..... less so than refineries..... or toxic waste dumps...
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:32:26 AM

And Inyo (and Mono) county have struggled to survive ever since then...
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:30:54 AM

Given the location.... the county needs to develop a better plan...Inyo was decimated by the LA Aqueduct a hundred years ago..... which siphoned it almost bone dry....
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Gnusman53
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 1:24:40 AM

Upfront costs often take many years to recapture....even in building a wal-mart....
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rahcat
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:18:23 AM

How long before upfront costs are recaptured?

[Edited by: rahcat at 11/26/2012 12:18:52 AM EST]
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teenitup
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:16:35 AM

Solar appears to be a big burden on the taxpayer.
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camel1
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:07:28 AM

ok
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BigOyl
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:03:23 AM

But at least they're helping to save the planet! LOL!

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joel27nc
Champion Author Raleigh

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:02:00 AM

What
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Aviator_Rob
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:00:45 AM

ok
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Dragnet
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 12:00:07 AM

They are a burden both financial and maintaining
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kbierley
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:59:53 PM

old
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southrob
Champion Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:55:17 PM

yup tech that does not work. DHAN
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TTQuattro
Rookie Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:53:51 PM

ok
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wang91554
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:50:34 PM

better than nothing
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StArrow68
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:49:43 PM

Everybody wants an edge.
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CharlieC08
Champion Author Colorado

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:47:46 PM

Obummer would fund it.
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flyfast
Champion Author Kansas City

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:44:40 PM

the green rip off
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ramshot412
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:43:37 PM

"If you read the "FULL ARTICLE" you find out the county is worried about the cost of road improvements and maintiance, fire and police cost. Isn't this always the case with now construction going in? As far as only 10 locals getting jobs, how many people will MOVE THERE and become locals with the new jobs that are being created."

Exactly.
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bearzz
Champion Author California

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:42:33 PM

Doesn't surprise me. I'm skeptical, I believe forcing green energy is a ripoff.
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Z51Corvette
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:40:02 PM

Typical Environmental and Governmental BS... Time to cut the garbage and offer REAL jobs, to RESIDENTS... no outsiders!
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Mowerman08
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:39:13 PM

Sounds like the sorry results from "clean" energy.
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dld1295
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:34:57 PM

Time will tell
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maxcap59
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:34:53 PM

More hidden costs to Odumba's green agenda. This doesn't even talk about what the county will incur when this, like other solar companies, goes bankrupt.
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pgerassi
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:33:45 PM

Too expensive for what you get!
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nwsynthetics
Champion Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:32:19 PM

Drive out towards palm desert. The wind turbines old and new look like crap
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humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:28:31 PM

and yet, the eco nazi's whine about the xl pipeline
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defiancegasman
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 11:28:17 PM

If you read the "FULL ARTICLE" you find out the county is worried about the cost of road improvements and maintiance, fire and police cost. Isn't this always the case with now construction going in? As far as only 10 locals getting jobs, how many people will MOVE THERE and become locals with the new jobs that are being created.

Seems that someone just is against SOLAR POWER! Sure it cost more to develop now, but again that is true of any new product. IF OIL goes to $500 a barrel, how smart will this investment look then. It still isn't as costly as NUCLEAR POWER and now where near as dangerous.
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