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Author	Topic: Can the U.S. Create Its Own German-Style Energy Revolution?	Post a Reply Back to Topics

angel4me Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,814 Points:795,295 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:21:27 AM Ignore angel4me Report Abuse InsideClimateNews.org (Phoenix, Arizona) -- From a block away, the house was hardly visible, hidden by a dense stand of native mesquite and palo verde trees and tall clumps of prickly pear cactus. Close up, you could see the concrete block structure, built a half century ago when acres of citrus groves were broken into parcels and replaced by homes. Turning the site back into desert took some work, Brock Tunnicliff explained, standing outside his house on a typical September morning in the Sonoran desert, temperatures in the mid-80s under a nearly cloudless sky. It also took some courage, because desert landscaping isn't popular in Phoenix. Most people here still prefer a lawn out front and a swimming pool in the back. For Tunnicliff, who works in natural resource management, adopting Visit Bloomberg for full article

angel4me

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InsideClimateNews.org (Phoenix, Arizona) -- From a block away, the house was hardly visible, hidden by a dense stand of native mesquite and palo verde trees and tall clumps of prickly pear cactus. Close up, you could see the concrete block structure, built a half century ago when acres of citrus groves were broken into parcels and replaced by homes.

Turning the site back into desert took some work, Brock Tunnicliff explained, standing outside his house on a typical September morning in the Sonoran desert, temperatures in the mid-80s under a nearly cloudless sky. It also took some courage, because desert landscaping isn't popular in Phoenix. Most people here still prefer a lawn out front and a swimming pool in the back.

For Tunnicliff, who works in natural resource management, adopting
Visit Bloomberg for full article

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

jrs4125 Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,763 Points:592,720 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2012 7:17:46 AM Ignore jrs4125 Report Abuse Yes we can if the will is there.
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,095 Points:1,623,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2012 12:05:15 AM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse Fossil fuel follies bumble? Superb commentary and recommended reading orphancarguy..!!! Thanks for a great article angel..!
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,095 Points:1,623,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2012 12:02:40 AM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse Yes! It is definitely time to go forward and get a true renewable energy plan in place for our future, not for that of the oil, gas, and coal industry.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,596 Points:1,206,355 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:24:24 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Listerone...Germany passed the US by some years ago. Why would they want to go backwards? [Edited by: LetemEatCake at 11/23/2012 10:25:13 PM EST]
listerone Champion Author Boston Posts:3,380 Points:879,515 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 8:41:13 PM Ignore listerone Report Abuse Can Germany create its own US-style Energy Revolution?
YaBassa Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,435 Points:518,075 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 6:24:52 PM Ignore YaBassa Report Abuse One could only hope that the US will wake up and get serious about developing a renewable energy program.
rcornel All-Star Author San Diego Posts:724 Points:228,845 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 6:15:09 PM Ignore rcornel Report Abuse Ok
YumaFellow Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,290 Points:622,595 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 3:44:44 PM Ignore YumaFellow Report Abuse Lots of folks in Phoenix have moved to desert landscaping, partly to save on water. Actually, trees that shade a house help to lower the cooling costs as well, so there is more than one way to save on energy. And with as much sun as we get in the desert, solar only makes sense.
leemun Champion Author Utah Posts:5,539 Points:1,041,100 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 2:12:31 PM Ignore leemun Report Abuse Last time I noticed, Germany's energy revolution wasn't working so well. Unreliable wind power, importing power from oil-fired plants in Austria.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,263 Points:2,372,345 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 2:07:51 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse even they, now say it was a mistake, why follow in follies footsteps ?
tnfran Champion Author Arizona Posts:4,388 Points:844,140 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 1:32:09 PM Ignore tnfran Report Abuse Glad for him.
bcline909 Veteran Author Virginia Posts:401 Points:80,170 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 1:26:25 PM Ignore bcline909 Report Abuse way to go Tunnicliff
tmon6219 Rookie Author Colorado Springs Posts:23 Points:91,810 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 1:07:03 PM Ignore tmon6219 Report Abuse The article is leaving out the fact that Germany is using the nearby countries to handle the balancing of there electrical grid system without them getting anything out of it. It seems Germany can't send excess power from one part of their country to another using only their own grid system.
CocoPaz Champion Author Santa Barbara Posts:2,380 Points:324,370 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:50:18 PM Ignore CocoPaz Report Abuse orphancarguyPE: your post was so good, I emailed it to myself. We are looking for ways to save electricity and $$. We are praying for those of you on the East Coast.
ziyulu Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:8,504 Points:1,603,850 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:47:36 PM Ignore ziyulu Report Abuse I'm sure no one wants to pay the gas prices in Germany.
FluffyDogAttack Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,082 Points:96,920 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:42:12 PM Ignore FluffyDogAttack Report Abuse The sky is falling
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,853 Points:735,965 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:32:39 PM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse Well, climate change deniers--keep on drinking that Fox News Kool-aid how about this: http://scienceprogress.org/2012/11/27479/ the count is now 13,296 to 24. You can change to renewables fast and expensive as Ontario and Germany have done by concentrating on the most expensive solar that there is--solar PV electricity and paying profit making business fistfuls of money to build it quick. Or, you can make more sensible choices and still do it quickly for less money. It gets expensive if you also wait for government or business to build some huge centralized facility rather than doing it yourself cheaply. One hundred thousand grains of sand weigh as much as one big rock, and one hundred thousand homeowners can replace as much power as one big power plant. First, cut out the expensive rate bribery to profit-making middlemen. Do it yourself as in YOU, or your business, or your village, or town , or city, by way of a co-op if its large enough. A local small (18,000) city spent $30million on four large Vestas producing 3 megawatts each, and it makes $18 million in revenue and $2 Million in NET profit every year which goes back into the community in paying for other upgrades, and 'free' electric lighting for ballfields and other sports and community places. It also provides up to 100% of the city's power needs, especially overnight, slashing overall costs for electricity bought from a profit making utility. Second-actually work out the math, and surprise yourself. I put up a $3000 solar air heater on my house (working now--its 76F inside) and $7000 on solar hot water panels, plus another $1000 in upgrades, on my own house out of my own pocket, and now I'm down to just over half a tank of heating oil a year, instead of 4.5 tanks for heat and hot water, for a saving of about $4000 a year. Over the next 6 years, staying with oil would cost me nearly $6000-$7000 including new oil tank, furnace repairs and servicing, and higher (oil spill) house insurance, so instead I'll rip out the boiler furnace and replace it with another solar hot water system and be break even. Running costs for both solar water systems (with electric backup--it has never been needed BTW) and the solar air heater would cost me a grand total of $10 a year, with a $250 service call for each hot water system--flush and new antifreeze--every 15 years. Solar PV is the last thing I'd personally spend money on because solar everything else is a much better bargain, but I will put some in eventually. Even then, the complete payback time for enough to cover my complete current electrical demand would only be 8 years Its pretty liberating NOT paying large dollars to a utility month after month, year after year, and my heat and hot water is just about/will be entirely carbon emission-free. One day, my electricity too. The house that makes most or all of its own heat, hot water and electricity with solar and wind power, doesn't have to burn anything and doesn't have to buy it from a grid/supplier either. The Chinese and the Indians--mostly from local grass-roots organizations--are trying to head off the 1200 new central coal power plants with clean solar. Central governments are usually the last ones to figure out that small and local beats big and central.
Zuegma All-Star Author Nova Scotia Posts:993 Points:258,880 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:26:16 PM Ignore Zuegma Report Abuse Not till the US develops a comprhensive energy policy.
ceklea Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:353 Points:1,288,795 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 12:08:05 PM Ignore ceklea Report Abuse As the article states, "In 2000, Germany's Renewable Energies Act went into effect, and power generated from the sun, wind, and biomass soared. In 2012, U.S. politicians are still wrangling about whether global warming is a hoax."
Pramodsharma Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,974 Points:388,140 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:59:17 AM Ignore Pramodsharma Report Abuse No, US creates its own style of energy rules. We do not recognize German style, Germans are eating out smaller nations like Spain, Greece and Portugal.
Suzzoom Champion Author Nevada Posts:2,368 Points:506,140 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:52:56 AM Ignore Suzzoom Report Abuse The US continues to allow religiosity to stall progress. Europeans marvel at our bullheaded stupidity.
bigt61 All-Star Author Virginia Posts:654 Points:203,255 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:27:08 AM Ignore bigt61 Report Abuse "Nearly 1,200 new coal-fired power plants are being planned across the globe, mostly in India and China, according to a report by the World Resources Institute. China is the No. 1 coal-fired power producer, followed by the U.S. and India. Germany and Japan round up the top five." Keep driving your hybrid and think you are making a difference in "global warming". Nearly 1,200 coal plants planned - Nov 21, 2012
SammyAdams Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:3,057 Points:793,605 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:11:51 AM Ignore SammyAdams Report Abuse From the article: "The primary reason for the renewable energy gulf between the United States and Germany can be summed-up in one word: policy. In 2000, Germany's Renewable Energies Act went into effect, and power generated from the sun, wind, and biomass soared. In 2012, U.S. politicians are still wrangling about whether global warming is a hoax." =========================================================== Well, actually it IS a good idea to determine whether or not your policy is guided by TRUTH or lies. "Global Warming" is a hoax. Another one-word summation explaining the gulf between the U.S. and Germany is "Constitution". We believe that the Federal government is limited in its authority and scope, because the Constitution only delegated certain powers to it. Those remaining were left to the states and the people. Folks are free to spend their money on renewables if THEY should so choose, however, it isn't within the government's authority to mandate such or tax one party in order to subsidize another.
MrDeath666 Champion Author Houston Posts:1,621 Points:245,165 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:11:06 AM Ignore MrDeath666 Report Abuse I wonder what his neighbors think of his yard?
katmandue Champion Author Detroit Posts:8,074 Points:2,135,055 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:05:49 AM Ignore katmandue Report Abuse yes we can but the oil block everything not oil related teaparty will not let it happen.
dm9667_23 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,221 Points:353,830 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:04:55 AM Ignore dm9667_23 Report Abuse interesting
bar1035 Champion Author Charlotte Posts:9,167 Points:1,299,195 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:04:42 AM Ignore bar1035 Report Abuse Check the price of power in the motherland
uglytom Champion Author Florida Posts:7,464 Points:1,542,015 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 11:01:37 AM Ignore uglytom Report Abuse The future is NOW!
200porter Champion Author Toronto Posts:2,070 Points:543,110 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:54:47 AM Ignore 200porter Report Abuse Good for the Germans. We should follow their example.
Discovery02 Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:2,570 Points:311,640 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:49:11 AM Ignore Discovery02 Report Abuse Greener energy and renewable energy sources for homes, businesses, automobiles, industry, you name it, IS the way of the future. The only question is whether we want to lead (which Germany is clearly doing now) or at least be at the head of the pack, OR going the way of the dinosaur.
Tucker16 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:1,159 Points:544,080 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:36:50 AM Ignore Tucker16 Report Abuse Hopefully without the massive subsidies that Germany spent on this.
JoeWino Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,435 Points:860,955 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:29:51 AM Ignore JoeWino Report Abuse I live in sun rich Texas and even if I wanted to add solar panels the powerful HOA in this community would not allow it.
Lugi1967 Champion Author Ohio Posts:4,788 Points:1,002,395 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2012 10:29:42 AM Ignore Lugi1967 Report Abuse Dont even want to