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Author Topic: Energy to Spare; Oil in America Back to Topics
GasPasserAB
Champion Author
Edmonton

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 11:34:55 PM

Until the late 1950s America produced all the coal, oil and natural gas that its citizens could burn. But as they grew rich and bought cars as big as whales, America began to suck in fuel from beyond its shores. It now accounts for nearly a fifth of world energy consumption. China may be the world's biggest consumer, but each American burns three and a half times as much as the average Chinese person.

Demand has more than doubled since America was last able to satisfy its energy needs from domestic sources. Nevertheless, there is a growing belief that it can do so again. During the election campaign, both presidential candidates suggested that "energy independence" was attainable. And indeed, the idea is no longer far-fetched. On November 12th the International Energy Agency (IEA), the r
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REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
jrs4125
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 6:08:57 AM

Alrighty then
DrCashFlow
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 5:12:19 AM

it's not that simple
bston
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:49:41 PM

How can energy consumption double when everything is suppose to be energy efficient nowadays?
Jeff4U
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:05:25 PM

We didn't export crude and finished products in the past.
Demand was based only on U.S. consumers. Gas was cheap.

Crude production today is based on global demand, meaning more exports and profit for Big Oil rather than cheap gas for us.

Joeski1 - the article did not say "Americans use 3.5 times the world average"
It said - "3.5 times the average of a Chinese person".
rjojo40
Champion Author Las Vegas

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 11:27:01 AM

ok
tnfran
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:23:21 AM

A small decal that was on a Ford Econoline van I bought used about 1970 was from "Sohio" oil co -- ""A country that runs on oil can't afford to run short"" and not too long after the 'so called shortage' came about even though there was all kinds of fuel available. They had it stored in closed gas station tanks and anywhere else they could put it, then once prices increased to near double , oh my we had all that people needed.
Big Oil then & now.
orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:14:11 AM

If you are considering oil, the US last supplied itself about December 1970. After that, imports were a necessity, not just a (at the time!) welcome lower cost alternative to domestic oil.

As much as fracked oil is growing sharply in supply, it is still a matter of scale. The US 'net imports' about about 40% of the 18 or so Million barrels per day (M bpd) of oil it uses. You have to consider net, not gross, imports, as the US imports a substantial amount of oil that it processes and resells elsewhere as finished product (value added, for additional profit) so while it 'imports' about 10 M bpd, it only 'uses' about 7 M bpd imported from foreign sources. Fracked oil is only a small fraction of the total use at under a M bpd out of 18+ M bpd--about 5%. At the same time conventional oil production from old existing wells keeps slowly dropping, so the 'replacement road' keeps getting a bit longer every single day. Fracked oil is not growing as fast as people think it is. Yes, it is growing fast, but in context of what has be be replaced as far as imports (first) and declining conventional (second) and increased demand (third) it might be decades at the current rate of expansion before the US is 'oil independent', if ever. That's right, decades, and at a steep cost. That presupposes that the US continues to use more or less the same mix of energy sources for more or less the same uses.

Coal is very dirty, and unfortunately nuclear is not endless in scope to grow--what there is now is likely what can be maintained (as a total output) due to constraints on supply of the right sorts of fissionable material, even if you ignore the other baggage that nuclear has. It might grow as a percentage of electricity supply, but likely not in absolute terms.

Natural gas, while there is a lot of it, has a lot of problems in the long term, if it is going to be sourced from more expensive fracking in shale as opposed to cheaper 'conventional' gas fields under salt domes and the like. The problem is price. For both oil and natural gas, higher real costs for fracking over conventional will keep energy prices higher than in the past. The truth is, there is little undiscovered and unexploited cheap oil and gas left anywhere in the world--its all gone. Ongoing new finds might appear big, until you put them into context of what is used daily, and how long it will take to extract it. A '1 year supply' of natural gas announced is quite different when you understand that that '1 year' will actually take 5 years to develop and a further 25 years to extract. So, nothing now, and in five years it might add 4% to the overall supply at that time. In mid term realistic terms and not too long from now, the price will/has to rise from current all-time lows, at least up to the sustainable 'replacement cost' which is likely to be three times the current low 'glut' price. It will still mean that natural gas will be a good replacement for coal for electricity, but as a replacement for gasoline or diesel...not so much, except for very large vehicles.

'Energy independence' for the US is possible, but not 'oil independence' unless there is a sharp fundamental shift and radical reduction off 'oil' as a percentage of the total energy source mix. Its 'reduce and shift demand' off oil wherever we can that will save the day, not fracking alone although it will help close the wide gap. It will require a lot of changes of the 'all of the above' type. GM's 500,000 a year electric or plug-in-electric (hybrid) car sales scenario is not quite as crazy as it might seem right now.
roadrunnin
Champion Author Richmond

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:28:11 AM

the problem isn't supply it is greed that causes us to export our supply for more profit, instead of using it here
335d1
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:42:16 AM

Don't forget natural gas.
Joeski1
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:34:57 AM

Individual energy use is the easiest to reduce.

As simple as a CFL or LED light vs an incandescent or a 37 MPG car vs a 17.

No excuses for 3.5 times the world average if that number is accurate.
Yooperheart
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:19:50 AM

Then refine the stuff, sell it abroad. Keep the cash here.
Simple right?
AVKZ
Champion Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:19:43 AM

We need to reduce our consumption.
wrunner
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:00:00 AM

Use energy wisely and wisely manage energy expenses.

A bright future awaits if the future is bright.
amerk73
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:55:16 AM

we want prices down
oilfreak
All-Star Author Houston

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:49:58 AM

Just keep drilling, just keep drilling drilling drilling.
brbts
Champion Author Charlotte

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:43:27 AM

Need to get it here and KEEP IT HERE to lower OUR GAS prices. That is the only way we'll ever really have energy independence. Can't have it if we keep giving it away!
72_Monte
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:37:33 AM


Nevermind that those resources WON'T STAY HERE.
doeslayersr
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:29:30 AM

The oil, coal and NG have ALWAYS been here.
farmboyTN
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:15:01 AM

ok
Rockyguitar
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:01:01 AM

Find, drill, produce, refine = jobs
TxMtb
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:51:51 AM

We are just going to export more, nothing will change except the profits big oil sees except maybe job creation, which in of itself is a great thing.
cheap59
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:48:44 AM

It would be nice to do it by ourselves, but there isn't enough storage to keep it here.
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:46:32 AM

QUOTE

"China may be the world's biggest consumer, but each American burns three and a half times as much as the average Chinese person"""

You don't burn much oil plowing a rice paddy behind an ox's butt. Nor do you use much oil living in a coffin sized dorm at a factory. The only time a typical Chinese uses oil is with his funeral after jumping off a factory building to end his sorry life.

Are we supposed to envy their life?
TruthMatters
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:39:54 AM

Don't understand why we are energy guzzlers when we are so fat as a nation - all that blubber should've kept us warm!
Straitliner
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:18:54 AM

Whats new?
dandvicb
Champion Author Bridgeport

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:08:54 AM

Drill baby!!!!
hokieburgh
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:05:14 AM

need to add refining capacity
MImusicman
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:57:38 AM

Keep it here
ss70
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:57:30 AM

plenty is good but why are the prices is record high .. traders shouted peak oil and peak price and they got it and why are paying so high even now
LauraLea5
All-Star Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:56:36 AM

Okay
SUPERSTEVIEO
Champion Author Quebec

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:49:23 AM

seems there is no concerted energy board to set decisive forward plans to improve the supply, cost and use of fossil fuels... big oil companies seem to still have a strong influence on their choices... and still take the steps to increase or at least protect their huge profits...
afghaned
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:54:58 AM

We waste more than we use. How long do northern state car owners run their cars to be warm when they get in!!! That's just a start.
djgunrunner
Champion Author Salt Lake City

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:51:55 AM

A couple of things would help energy that we have go further. 1. Get rid of Ethanol. Other than the fact that it uses a great deal of corn and provides no real service except to make additional requirements on your car like flex fuel and the fact that you get better mileage by 12 to 20 percent and it makes an Ethanol Mafia richer for scamming the American public there is nothing to say about it. 2. We have enough Natural Gas to last over 100 years. Obama could have done something about supporting it for vehicles over 3 years ago. That would add a lot energy independence and help cut the trade deficit.
MN1
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:41:13 AM

Unfortunately "energy independence" and the implied idea that energy costs will drop is a myth perpetuated by Big Oil. Dangling the carrot of energy independence in front of the public allows them to justify extracting oil/gas by any means possible regardless of environmental damage or any other concerns.
TravelinMan52
Champion Author Augusta

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:30:26 AM

Pump our own, keep it here...
SBlouch
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:03:28 AM

The USA knew there would be an increase in energy needs and an oil problem when we had our first oil embargo in 1974. But we just kept our heads in the sand. We should have starting then what we are doing now. But its better late than never.
pricewar
Champion Author Ogden

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:54:42 AM

Ok
quasar502
Champion Author Lansing

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:54:38 AM

Isn't it amazing?
SkooterG
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:21:22 AM

Good luck with that.
grandamgt1
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:11:13 AM

We need to quit talking about it and do something about it.
gaswatchON
All-Star Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:01:33 AM

The Americas should have been oil independent years ago but better late than never
KE4YBZ
All-Star Author Knoxville

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 2:45:30 AM

face it: our lives have been based on cheap energy. we define our businesses, and in essence, our way of life assuming energy costs will be insignificant in the grand scheme of our way of life.

It's really REALLY hard to change! (but we gotta!)
FluffyDogAttack
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:53:01 AM

Oh man, that BO Factor stinks! Wish we could get rid of that BO stench. Apparently people actually believe the smell of B.O. is all Bush's fault. The truth is it's a spontaneous odor in reaction to a youtube video. They said so, so it must be true.
SammyAdams
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:26:25 AM

Nobody has taken into account the BO factor.
comprof
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:25:47 AM

AKmailman: I agree.
raja29
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:18:57 AM

Kkkkk
joeschmo12
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:18:03 AM

big time consumers we r
MrLefty0706
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:13:34 AM

Let's hope people do not see this as an excuse to go back to gas gusslers.
cheapchickKY
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:50:01 AM

Okay.
1momsunshine
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:48:06 AM

Wow!
AKmailman
Champion Author Alaska

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:43:36 AM

We got lazy and started importing our oil
Time to end that trend -
We need to stop EXPORTING our oil
And not importing expensive rag head oil
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