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GasPasserAB Champion Author Edmonton Posts:25,040 Points:888,175 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 11:34:55 PM Ignore GasPasserAB Report Abuse Until the late 1950s America produced all the coal, oil and natural gas that its citizens could burn. But as they grew rich and bought cars as big as whales, America began to suck in fuel from beyond its shores. It now accounts for nearly a fifth of world energy consumption. China may be the world's biggest consumer, but each American burns three and a half times as much as the average Chinese person. Demand has more than doubled since America was last able to satisfy its energy needs from domestic sources. Nevertheless, there is a growing belief that it can do so again. During the election campaign, both presidential candidates suggested that "energy independence" was attainable. And indeed, the idea is no longer far-fetched. On November 12th the International Energy Agency (IEA), the r Visit Downstream News for full article

GasPasserAB

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Edmonton

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 11:34:55 PM

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Until the late 1950s America produced all the coal, oil and natural gas that its citizens could burn. But as they grew rich and bought cars as big as whales, America began to suck in fuel from beyond its shores. It now accounts for nearly a fifth of world energy consumption. China may be the world's biggest consumer, but each American burns three and a half times as much as the average Chinese person.

Demand has more than doubled since America was last able to satisfy its energy needs from domestic sources. Nevertheless, there is a growing belief that it can do so again. During the election campaign, both presidential candidates suggested that "energy independence" was attainable. And indeed, the idea is no longer far-fetched. On November 12th the International Energy Agency (IEA), the r
Visit Downstream News for full article

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jrs4125 Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,758 Points:591,745 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 6:08:57 AM Ignore jrs4125 Report Abuse Alrighty then
DrCashFlow Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:7,064 Points:1,627,125 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 5:12:19 AM Ignore DrCashFlow Report Abuse it's not that simple
bston Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:1,820 Points:642,275 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:49:41 PM Ignore bston Report Abuse How can energy consumption double when everything is suppose to be energy efficient nowadays?
Jeff4U Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,761 Points:1,853,345 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:05:25 PM Ignore Jeff4U Report Abuse We didn't export crude and finished products in the past. Demand was based only on U.S. consumers. Gas was cheap. Crude production today is based on global demand, meaning more exports and profit for Big Oil rather than cheap gas for us. Joeski1 - the article did not say "Americans use 3.5 times the world average" It said - "3.5 times the average of a Chinese person".
rjojo40 Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:7,376 Points:1,075,640 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 11:27:01 AM Ignore rjojo40 Report Abuse ok
tnfran Champion Author Arizona Posts:4,383 Points:843,165 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:23:21 AM Ignore tnfran Report Abuse A small decal that was on a Ford Econoline van I bought used about 1970 was from "Sohio" oil co -- ""A country that runs on oil can't afford to run short"" and not too long after the 'so called shortage' came about even though there was all kinds of fuel available. They had it stored in closed gas station tanks and anywhere else they could put it, then once prices increased to near double , oh my we had all that people needed. Big Oil then & now.
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,848 Points:734,990 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:14:11 AM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse If you are considering oil, the US last supplied itself about December 1970. After that, imports were a necessity, not just a (at the time!) welcome lower cost alternative to domestic oil. As much as fracked oil is growing sharply in supply, it is still a matter of scale. The US 'net imports' about about 40% of the 18 or so Million barrels per day (M bpd) of oil it uses. You have to consider net, not gross, imports, as the US imports a substantial amount of oil that it processes and resells elsewhere as finished product (value added, for additional profit) so while it 'imports' about 10 M bpd, it only 'uses' about 7 M bpd imported from foreign sources. Fracked oil is only a small fraction of the total use at under a M bpd out of 18+ M bpd--about 5%. At the same time conventional oil production from old existing wells keeps slowly dropping, so the 'replacement road' keeps getting a bit longer every single day. Fracked oil is not growing as fast as people think it is. Yes, it is growing fast, but in context of what has be be replaced as far as imports (first) and declining conventional (second) and increased demand (third) it might be decades at the current rate of expansion before the US is 'oil independent', if ever. That's right, decades, and at a steep cost. That presupposes that the US continues to use more or less the same mix of energy sources for more or less the same uses. Coal is very dirty, and unfortunately nuclear is not endless in scope to grow--what there is now is likely what can be maintained (as a total output) due to constraints on supply of the right sorts of fissionable material, even if you ignore the other baggage that nuclear has. It might grow as a percentage of electricity supply, but likely not in absolute terms. Natural gas, while there is a lot of it, has a lot of problems in the long term, if it is going to be sourced from more expensive fracking in shale as opposed to cheaper 'conventional' gas fields under salt domes and the like. The problem is price. For both oil and natural gas, higher real costs for fracking over conventional will keep energy prices higher than in the past. The truth is, there is little undiscovered and unexploited cheap oil and gas left anywhere in the world--its all gone. Ongoing new finds might appear big, until you put them into context of what is used daily, and how long it will take to extract it. A '1 year supply' of natural gas announced is quite different when you understand that that '1 year' will actually take 5 years to develop and a further 25 years to extract. So, nothing now, and in five years it might add 4% to the overall supply at that time. In mid term realistic terms and not too long from now, the price will/has to rise from current all-time lows, at least up to the sustainable 'replacement cost' which is likely to be three times the current low 'glut' price. It will still mean that natural gas will be a good replacement for coal for electricity, but as a replacement for gasoline or diesel...not so much, except for very large vehicles. 'Energy independence' for the US is possible, but not 'oil independence' unless there is a sharp fundamental shift and radical reduction off 'oil' as a percentage of the total energy source mix. Its 'reduce and shift demand' off oil wherever we can that will save the day, not fracking alone although it will help close the wide gap. It will require a lot of changes of the 'all of the above' type. GM's 500,000 a year electric or plug-in-electric (hybrid) car sales scenario is not quite as crazy as it might seem right now.
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,754 Points:565,135 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:28:11 AM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse the problem isn't supply it is greed that causes us to export our supply for more profit, instead of using it here
335d1 Champion Author Virginia Posts:2,381 Points:759,045 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:42:16 AM Ignore 335d1 Report Abuse Don't forget natural gas.
Joeski1 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:10,001 Points:1,741,835 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:34:57 AM Ignore Joeski1 Report Abuse Individual energy use is the easiest to reduce. As simple as a CFL or LED light vs an incandescent or a 37 MPG car vs a 17. No excuses for 3.5 times the world average if that number is accurate.
Yooperheart Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,416 Points:527,025 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:19:50 AM Ignore Yooperheart Report Abuse Then refine the stuff, sell it abroad. Keep the cash here. Simple right?
AVKZ All-Star Author Kalamazoo Posts:846 Points:294,025 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:19:43 AM Ignore AVKZ Report Abuse We need to reduce our consumption.
wrunner Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,445 Points:1,136,585 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 8:00:00 AM Ignore wrunner Report Abuse Use energy wisely and wisely manage energy expenses. A bright future awaits if the future is bright.
amerk73 Champion Author Dallas Posts:7,050 Points:1,621,080 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:55:16 AM Ignore amerk73 Report Abuse we want prices down
oilfreak All-Star Author Houston Posts:687 Points:36,885 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:49:58 AM Ignore oilfreak Report Abuse Just keep drilling, just keep drilling drilling drilling.
brbts Champion Author Charlotte Posts:3,638 Points:775,390 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:43:27 AM Ignore brbts Report Abuse Need to get it here and KEEP IT HERE to lower OUR GAS prices. That is the only way we'll ever really have energy independence. Can't have it if we keep giving it away!
72_Monte Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:7,770 Points:1,996,460 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:37:33 AM Ignore 72_Monte Report Abuse Nevermind that those resources WON'T STAY HERE.
doeslayersr Champion Author Illinois Posts:9,116 Points:872,005 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:29:30 AM Ignore doeslayersr Report Abuse The oil, coal and NG have ALWAYS been here.
farmboyTN Champion Author Tennessee Posts:2,262 Points:449,310 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:15:01 AM Ignore farmboyTN Report Abuse ok
Rockyguitar Champion Author Tampa Posts:2,562 Points:1,202,570 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:01:01 AM Ignore Rockyguitar Report Abuse Find, drill, produce, refine = jobs
TxMtb Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,540 Points:344,330 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:51:51 AM Ignore TxMtb Report Abuse We are just going to export more, nothing will change except the profits big oil sees except maybe job creation, which in of itself is a great thing.
cheap59 Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,240 Points:962,270 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:48:44 AM Ignore cheap59 Report Abuse It would be nice to do it by ourselves, but there isn't enough storage to keep it here.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:46:32 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse QUOTE "China may be the world's biggest consumer, but each American burns three and a half times as much as the average Chinese person""" You don't burn much oil plowing a rice paddy behind an ox's butt. Nor do you use much oil living in a coffin sized dorm at a factory. The only time a typical Chinese uses oil is with his funeral after jumping off a factory building to end his sorry life. Are we supposed to envy their life?
TruthMatters Champion Author New Jersey Posts:2,520 Points:533,985 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:39:54 AM Ignore TruthMatters Report Abuse Don't understand why we are energy guzzlers when we are so fat as a nation - all that blubber should've kept us warm!
Straitliner Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,500 Points:238,275 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:18:54 AM Ignore Straitliner Report Abuse Whats new?
dandvicb Champion Author Bridgeport Posts:1,232 Points:1,076,955 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:08:54 AM Ignore dandvicb Report Abuse Drill baby!!!!
hokieburgh Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,112 Points:464,400 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 6:05:14 AM Ignore hokieburgh Report Abuse need to add refining capacity
MImusicman Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,873 Points:407,675 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:57:38 AM Ignore MImusicman Report Abuse Keep it here
ss70 Champion Author Detroit Posts:9,662 Points:1,870,100 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:57:30 AM Ignore ss70 Report Abuse plenty is good but why are the prices is record high .. traders shouted peak oil and peak price and they got it and why are paying so high even now
LauraLea5 All-Star Author Ontario Posts:779 Points:439,085 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:56:36 AM Ignore LauraLea5 Report Abuse Okay
SUPERSTEVIEO Champion Author Quebec Posts:3,523 Points:787,115 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 5:49:23 AM Ignore SUPERSTEVIEO Report Abuse seems there is no concerted energy board to set decisive forward plans to improve the supply, cost and use of fossil fuels... big oil companies seem to still have a strong influence on their choices... and still take the steps to increase or at least protect their huge profits...
afghaned Champion Author Hamilton Posts:11,819 Points:1,286,360 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:54:58 AM Ignore afghaned Report Abuse We waste more than we use. How long do northern state car owners run their cars to be warm when they get in!!! That's just a start.
djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:10,099 Points:2,348,605 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:51:55 AM Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse A couple of things would help energy that we have go further. 1. Get rid of Ethanol. Other than the fact that it uses a great deal of corn and provides no real service except to make additional requirements on your car like flex fuel and the fact that you get better mileage by 12 to 20 percent and it makes an Ethanol Mafia richer for scamming the American public there is nothing to say about it. 2. We have enough Natural Gas to last over 100 years. Obama could have done something about supporting it for vehicles over 3 years ago. That would add a lot energy independence and help cut the trade deficit.
MN1 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,364 Points:651,565 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:41:13 AM Ignore MN1 Report Abuse Unfortunately "energy independence" and the implied idea that energy costs will drop is a myth perpetuated by Big Oil. Dangling the carrot of energy independence in front of the public allows them to justify extracting oil/gas by any means possible regardless of environmental damage or any other concerns.
TravelinMan52 Champion Author Augusta Posts:1,925 Points:963,645 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:30:26 AM Ignore TravelinMan52 Report Abuse Pump our own, keep it here...
SBlouch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:8,730 Points:1,859,265 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 4:03:28 AM Ignore SBlouch Report Abuse The USA knew there would be an increase in energy needs and an oil problem when we had our first oil embargo in 1974. But we just kept our heads in the sand. We should have starting then what we are doing now. But its better late than never.
pricewar Champion Author Ogden Posts:1,945 Points:275,215 Joined:Jul 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:54:42 AM Ignore pricewar Report Abuse Ok
quasar502 Champion Author Lansing Posts:3,588 Points:802,325 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:54:38 AM Ignore quasar502 Report Abuse Isn't it amazing?
SkooterG Champion Author Phoenix Posts:1,359 Points:328,585 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:21:22 AM Ignore SkooterG Report Abuse Good luck with that.
grandamgt1 Champion Author Illinois Posts:2,351 Points:1,240,500 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:11:13 AM Ignore grandamgt1 Report Abuse We need to quit talking about it and do something about it.
gaswatchON Veteran Author Ontario Posts:463 Points:118,405 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:01:33 AM Ignore gaswatchON Report Abuse The Americas should have been oil independent years ago but better late than never
KE4YBZ All-Star Author Knoxville Posts:578 Points:558,935 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 2:45:30 AM Ignore KE4YBZ Report Abuse face it: our lives have been based on cheap energy. we define our businesses, and in essence, our way of life assuming energy costs will be insignificant in the grand scheme of our way of life. It's really REALLY hard to change! (but we gotta!)
FluffyDogAttack Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,082 Points:96,795 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:53:01 AM Ignore FluffyDogAttack Report Abuse Oh man, that BO Factor stinks! Wish we could get rid of that BO stench. Apparently people actually believe the smell of B.O. is all Bush's fault. The truth is it's a spontaneous odor in reaction to a youtube video. They said so, so it must be true.
SammyAdams Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:3,056 Points:793,535 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:26:25 AM Ignore SammyAdams Report Abuse Nobody has taken into account the BO factor.
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:6,864 Points:1,357,725 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:25:47 AM Ignore comprof Report Abuse AKmailman: I agree.
raja29 All-Star Author Toronto Posts:998 Points:199,565 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:18:57 AM Ignore raja29 Report Abuse Kkkkk
joeschmo12 Champion Author New York Posts:1,016 Points:306,240 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:18:03 AM Ignore joeschmo12 Report Abuse big time consumers we r
MrLefty0706 Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,449 Points:352,060 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 1:13:34 AM Ignore MrLefty0706 Report Abuse Let's hope people do not see this as an excuse to go back to gas gusslers.
cheapchickKY Champion Author Lexington Posts:4,022 Points:797,265 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:50:01 AM Ignore cheapchickKY Report Abuse Okay.
1momsunshine Champion Author Ottawa Posts:5,495 Points:1,001,555 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:48:06 AM Ignore 1momsunshine Report Abuse Wow!