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Author	Topic: How New England Can Eliminate Oil Use For Single Family Homes	Post a Reply Back to Topics

vandamme Champion Author New York Posts:1,158 Points:132,480 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 3:35:05 PM Ignore vandamme Report Abuse ... I was blown away by how much energy renewable thermal technologies produced, and how valuable that energy is when displacing oil, propane and electricity.... When we compare these technologies in the same terms, it starts to provide a very clear picture of the results that can be achieved by investing in proven renewable energy thermal technologies. These technologies include solar thermal systems, geothermal/ground source heat pumps, air source heat pumps, and biomass. Visit alt energy stocks for full article

vandamme

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New York

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 3:35:05 PM

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... I was blown away by how much energy renewable thermal technologies produced, and how valuable that energy is when displacing oil, propane and electricity.... When we compare these technologies in the same terms, it starts to provide a very clear picture of the results that can be achieved by investing in proven renewable energy thermal technologies. These technologies include solar thermal systems, geothermal/ground source heat pumps, air source heat pumps, and biomass.
Visit alt energy stocks for full article

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LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,609 Points:1,206,580 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:33:03 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Get real Buckeyee! Surely you are not one of the 43%? I agree with Crep1291...it appears to be too expensive for the average man.
Buckeyee Champion Author Maine Posts:4,616 Points:901,575 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:10:06 PM Ignore Buckeyee Report Abuse When do I get my " free Obama solar/geo system " ? at no cost to me !! I am entitled to it. I used a electric heater in the living room at night. It is cheaper then using the oil boiler.
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,587 Points:481,455 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:25:55 PM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse Solar PV and thermal make sense, but I doubt geothermal is as cheap as the author is suggesting. At least for an existing house, the [basement] excavation looks like it would be as expensive as the entire system...
eschroth442 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,089 Points:334,695 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:16:39 AM Ignore eschroth442 Report Abuse all these sytems are fine, but the payback time is ridiculous and the installation cost are very high, Unless the government is going to give some tax breaks, then it's not worth it
fuel2use Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,493 Points:734,300 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:39:45 AM Ignore fuel2use Report Abuse I have natural gas 50 feet away. But the Gas company want $10,000.00 to connect me.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,203 Points:133,725 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:03:57 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse Why bother with this? New England population centers are well served by gas pipelines. In my state we have completed the conversion to NG fired electrictiy and National Grid is offering subsidies to convert homes to NG. And if you don't live in a gas served area, why not just buy a tank for gas and have it delivered? Many people do this already. My heating costs dropped dramatically when I converted. I don't even worry about heating costs anymore, pocket change.
MAC48 Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,550 Points:767,900 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:31:40 AM Ignore MAC48 Report Abuse Anytime a marketing professional, a.k.a. snake oil salesman, makes a presentation, get a firm grip on your wallet as if you were talking to a lawyer about the cost for legal services. It would be interesting to see the author’s presentation if all governmental incentives, a.k.a. subsidies, were eliminated from his calculations so that a real apple to apple comparison of installation and operating cost could be made. Any form of energy or heat or power that can only be economically justified when based on subsidies is obviously not the best choice now or in the foreseeable future. It also bothers me that no one who is championing the alternative energy, heat or power agenda ever talks about the ongoing year in and year out repair and maintenance cost nor the replacement cost when the alternative energy, heat or power installation must be replaced. Inquiring minds want to know these other particulars. The concept of a ground source heat pump has always appealed to me as a source for conditioned air, heat in the winter and cold in the summer compared to the outside temperature, but there are very few if any ground source heat pumps in this area to the best of my knowledge which means that natural gas fired home heating and standard AC units have been and still are the most economical choice.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,609 Points:1,206,580 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 10:48:27 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse I tend to agree with TableTalk. From experience the installation of heat pumps work beautifully in temperate climates. However, in New England where it is colder than H installation to me would be prohibitive. Seems like you would never get your money back!
rcornel All-Star Author San Diego Posts:734 Points:230,020 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:17:10 PM Ignore rcornel Report Abuse Ok
TableTalk Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,184 Points:558,700 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 7:40:54 PM Ignore TableTalk Report Abuse Air-source heat pumps don't work at 30 below in Vermont.
bar1035 Champion Author Charlotte Posts:9,172 Points:1,300,170 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 10:59:03 AM Ignore bar1035 Report Abuse price geo-thermal and then decide
merlinCO Champion Author Colorado Posts:1,650 Points:343,345 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:47:31 AM Ignore merlinCO Report Abuse Public utilities will fight this! Look at Hawaii.
TxMtb Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,545 Points:345,905 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:21:06 AM Ignore TxMtb Report Abuse Be interesting to see how this pans out, initial costs are prohibitive, but long term outlook is very good.
peabeax55 All-Star Author Atlanta Posts:713 Points:185,515 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:13:03 AM Ignore peabeax55 Report Abuse Skipping an easy solution and going straight to most difficult, expensive and intrusive. Few people will dig up hundreds of feet of yard to run geothermal loops. Solar very unproductive in far north. As other have said, run Natural gas OR (drum roll) Propane which is entirely portable. I am sure New Englanders would love to get off oil heat BUT not an an average cost of $5.00/ Kwh. Absurd. Untenable.
Evilmaddog Champion Author British Columbia Posts:3,332 Points:959,500 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 8:21:56 AM Ignore Evilmaddog Report Abuse save $$$$$$$$$$$
leeac Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,606 Points:435,855 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 6:42:48 AM Ignore leeac Report Abuse There are many ways to heat a structure. No matter how it is done keeping the heat in is still the most important part of keeping a structure warm at low cost. Insulate, insulate, insulate and energy efficient doors and windows.
grandmacbc Champion Author Buffalo Posts:6,545 Points:1,431,000 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 5:02:48 AM Ignore grandmacbc Report Abuse could be promising for many areas
Jeff4U Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,767 Points:1,854,320 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 4:47:48 AM Ignore Jeff4U Report Abuse Nothing lasts forever.
jamofsocal All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:946 Points:231,070 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 3:10:10 AM Ignore jamofsocal Report Abuse I believe the significant operative word there is "proven". Too many people are hopping on alternative energies that have not been proven.
JohnofGB Champion Author Flint Posts:5,431 Points:1,098,145 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 2:14:00 AM Ignore JohnofGB Report Abuse How about running gas lines to the where it make economic sense.
gbs1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,011 Points:744,550 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 1:45:28 AM Ignore gbs1 Report Abuse We need to get the Northeast off oil and converted to natural gas. It would be good for all of us
TXRanger09 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,515 Points:893,105 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 1:38:24 AM Ignore TXRanger09 Report Abuse Lot of number crunching in this article. But worth the time.
kkimes Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,605 Points:1,507,960 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:58:43 AM Ignore kkimes Report Abuse The good thing is that it can last forever. But there is an upfront cost. Are we willing to make that investment?
MN1 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,364 Points:651,565 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:55:42 AM Ignore MN1 Report Abuse A long term solution... unlike fossil fuels.
Vetteblu Champion Author Denver Posts:2,680 Points:781,795 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:48:16 AM Ignore Vetteblu Report Abuse True.
danindenver Champion Author Denver Posts:5,494 Points:1,240,410 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:16:10 AM Ignore danindenver Report Abuse Interesting article
lesndave Champion Author Texas Posts:3,047 Points:703,105 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:09:11 AM Ignore lesndave Report Abuse Interesting
el_fr Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,347 Points:746,650 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:06:14 AM Ignore el_fr Report Abuse Natural gas is cheap right now
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,105 Points:1,624,380 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 11:46:57 PM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse Great choices that everyone should consider for their home and business. thanks for the fine article vandamme!
MidNJ Champion Author New Jersey Posts:7,559 Points:1,173,100 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 10:47:43 PM Ignore MidNJ Report Abuse Very detailed and indepth article.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,953 Points:754,120 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 10:24:32 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Get rid of government incentives ( subsidies ) and go for it.
TripleHs Champion Author Austin Posts:3,355 Points:918,840 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:56:21 PM Ignore TripleHs Report Abuse if true, it seems amazing and might be the direction to go
YumaFellow Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,300 Points:624,545 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:48:44 PM Ignore YumaFellow Report Abuse This is another approach that holds some promise, though I am not sure how widespread the application could be.
investmentdr Champion Author Cleveland Posts:4,039 Points:1,457,000 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:35:56 PM Ignore investmentdr Report Abuse Just need alternatives
bruin19MD Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,064 Points:165,325 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:26:41 PM Ignore bruin19MD Report Abuse green energy now
lesabreAZ Champion Author Phoenix Posts:1,696 Points:413,430 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 8:47:03 PM Ignore lesabreAZ Report Abuse Move out of new england
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,856 Points:736,900 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 8:40:16 PM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse I can attest to this. I have slashed my heating oil use from 4 to 5 tanks a year for heating and hot water, down to under 1 tank a year. I use solar thermal (Cansolair, using less than $10 of electricity a year to run) for half my winter heat and all of my spring and fall heating. The oil boiler furnace runs only as backup and only occasionally and only in the wintertime. All my hot water is now solar heated (Thermo-Dynamics = $0 to run, and no upkeep cost for many years) I will be replacing my oil tank/furnace in the next three years with another solar hot water system, like my domestic hot water system, which will do the hot water in-floor heating that my oil-fired boiler now does--but silent, totally clean, totally carbon-free and no ongoing running costs, cleaning, and fueling. Cost? $7,000. Annual oil cost is nearly $1000 now, and just replacing my oil tank alone will be $2000 in 2015--so my guaranteed payback time to go carbon-free will be 5 years of less. I'd never recommend heat pumps to anyone--very high capital cost (start at $25,000 and go way way higher) and very substantial running costs (electricity) to operate all year round. Electricity bills in the hundreds per month, forever. It only makes any sort of sense if you have cheap electricity, have a huge home with monstrous heating and monstrous air conditioning costs both, and if you are in it for the long term. $25,000 by comparison, would more than pay for solar how water, solar house heating (air and warm water) AND solar PV panels to run the whole lot and provide all your electricity too--with no running costs either. My climate is as cold as Maine (and much windier, where I live) and I can do it, then every single house in New England could likely do it too.
listerone Champion Author Boston Posts:3,385 Points:880,515 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:57:24 PM Ignore listerone Report Abuse algore....with yet another scam in mind.The last one made him a billionaire,let's see how much this earns him.
agrico Veteran Author New Orleans Posts:464 Points:505,390 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:50:29 PM Ignore agrico Report Abuse The US has cheap energy due to our efficient harvesting of the natural resources God gave us
kiosk12y Champion Author Tulsa Posts:3,622 Points:682,870 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:47:14 PM Ignore kiosk12y Report Abuse ok...
200porter Champion Author Toronto Posts:2,075 Points:544,085 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:43:12 PM Ignore 200porter Report Abuse I'm surprised at the volume used in New England compared to the rest of the US.
SammyAdams Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:3,061 Points:794,510 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:34:11 PM Ignore SammyAdams Report Abuse New England? I wasn't aware that heat pumps were utilized much outside of the southern states. Heat pumps are reverse air units that extract heat from the air, but when the temperatures dip below 40 degrees, there isn't much heat to extract. That's why they typically have back-up systems (electric heat strips, gas, etc.), so you are back to where you started.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,297 Points:2,373,320 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:32:54 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse it still needs susidies and pretty big ones to be feasable to home owners
Ahking Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,512 Points:604,425 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:27:29 PM Ignore Ahking Report Abuse worth looking into & trying further.
RRBC Champion Author Victoria Posts:2,715 Points:531,015 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:16:37 PM Ignore RRBC Report Abuse Geo thermal is far more to install here than air source heat pumps.
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:7,584 Points:1,458,010 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:53:40 PM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse The bottom line is that incentives are a big part of any program to get PV installed.
YaBassa Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,440 Points:519,050 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:39:03 PM Ignore YaBassa Report Abuse My geothermal heating system is a "closed loop" system that does not need a source of water, it just recirculates a water/glycol mix. Expensive to install, but very inexpensive to operate. Great even heating and cooling.
tnfran Champion Author Arizona Posts:4,388 Points:844,140 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:17:10 PM Ignore tnfran Report Abuse Would be interesting to find his source for all these numbers. ONe thing he didn't mention in Geothermal systems , you need a source of water which is getting scarcer in many areas of the US. He also mentions burning pellets or cord wood, not cheap either and where is he going to 'replenish' enough trees every year for the number of those that could or would switch .
Ken2OD Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:9,077 Points:1,972,915 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 5:59:28 PM Ignore Ken2OD Report Abuse There they go again - trying to compare watermelons and eggs.
Buckeyee Champion Author Maine Posts:4,616 Points:901,575 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 5:44:52 PM Ignore Buckeyee Report Abuse This would be a great stimulus plan that Obama and the democrats can spend our tax dollars on. Course only union employees could do the work, no one else need apply. At least I would be getting something from all the billions that have been wasted so far. I have been using a electric heater, since it is cheaper then using my oil boiler.