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Author Topic: How New England Can Eliminate Oil Use For Single Family Homes Back to Topics
vandamme
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New York

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 3:35:05 PM

... I was blown away by how much energy renewable thermal technologies produced, and how valuable that energy is when displacing oil, propane and electricity.... When we compare these technologies in the same terms, it starts to provide a very clear picture of the results that can be achieved by investing in proven renewable energy thermal technologies. These technologies include solar thermal systems, geothermal/ground source heat pumps, air source heat pumps, and biomass.
Visit alt energy stocks for full article
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:33:03 PM


Get real Buckeyee! Surely you are not one of the 43%?

I agree with Crep1291...it appears to be too expensive for the average man.

Buckeyee
Champion Author Maine

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:10:06 PM

When do I get my " free Obama solar/geo system " ? at no cost to me !! I am entitled to it. I used a electric heater in the living room at night. It is cheaper then using the oil boiler.
crep1291
Champion Author Ottawa

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 12:25:55 PM

Solar PV and thermal make sense, but I doubt geothermal is as cheap as the author is suggesting. At least for an existing house, the [basement] excavation looks like it would be as expensive as the entire system...
eschroth442
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 10:16:39 AM

all these sytems are fine, but the payback time is ridiculous and the installation cost are very high, Unless the government is going to give some tax breaks, then it's not worth it
fuel2use
Champion Author Seattle

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 9:39:45 AM

I have natural gas 50 feet away. But the Gas company want $10,000.00 to connect me.
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 7:03:57 AM

Why bother with this? New England population centers are well served by gas pipelines. In my state we have completed the conversion to NG fired electrictiy and National Grid is offering subsidies to convert homes to NG.

And if you don't live in a gas served area, why not just buy a tank for gas and have it delivered? Many people do this already.

My heating costs dropped dramatically when I converted. I don't even worry about heating costs anymore, pocket change.
MAC48
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2012 3:31:40 AM

Anytime a marketing professional, a.k.a. snake oil salesman, makes a presentation, get a firm grip on your wallet as if you were talking to a lawyer about the cost for legal services. It would be interesting to see the author’s presentation if all governmental incentives, a.k.a. subsidies, were eliminated from his calculations so that a real apple to apple comparison of installation and operating cost could be made.

Any form of energy or heat or power that can only be economically justified when based on subsidies is obviously not the best choice now or in the foreseeable future. It also bothers me that no one who is championing the alternative energy, heat or power agenda ever talks about the ongoing year in and year out repair and maintenance cost nor the replacement cost when the alternative energy, heat or power installation must be replaced. Inquiring minds want to know these other particulars.

The concept of a ground source heat pump has always appealed to me as a source for conditioned air, heat in the winter and cold in the summer compared to the outside temperature, but there are very few if any ground source heat pumps in this area to the best of my knowledge which means that natural gas fired home heating and standard AC units have been and still are the most economical choice.
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 10:48:27 PM


I tend to agree with TableTalk. From experience the installation of heat pumps work beautifully in temperate climates. However, in New England where it is colder than H installation to me would be prohibitive. Seems like you would never get your money back!
rcornel
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:17:10 PM

Ok
TableTalk
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 7:40:54 PM

Air-source heat pumps don't work at 30 below in Vermont.
bar1035
Champion Author Charlotte

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 10:59:03 AM

price geo-thermal and then decide
merlinCO
Champion Author Colorado

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:47:31 AM

Public utilities will fight this! Look at Hawaii.
TxMtb
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:21:06 AM

Be interesting to see how this pans out, initial costs are prohibitive, but long term outlook is very good.
peabeax55
All-Star Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 9:13:03 AM

Skipping an easy solution and going straight to most difficult, expensive and intrusive.
Few people will dig up hundreds of feet of yard to run geothermal loops.
Solar very unproductive in far north.

As other have said, run Natural gas OR (drum roll) Propane which is entirely portable.
I am sure New Englanders would love to get off oil heat BUT
not an an average cost of $5.00/ Kwh. Absurd. Untenable.
Evilmaddog
Champion Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 8:21:56 AM

save $$$$$$$$$$$
leeac
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 6:42:48 AM

There are many ways to heat a structure. No matter how it is done keeping the heat in is still the most important part of keeping a structure warm at low cost. Insulate, insulate, insulate and energy efficient doors and windows.
grandmacbc
Champion Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 5:02:48 AM

could be promising for many areas
Jeff4U
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 4:47:48 AM

Nothing lasts forever.
jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 3:10:10 AM

I believe the significant operative word there is "proven". Too many people are hopping on alternative energies that have not been proven.
JohnofGB
Champion Author Flint

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 2:14:00 AM

How about running gas lines to the where it make economic sense.
gbs1
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 1:45:28 AM

We need to get the Northeast off oil and converted to natural gas. It would be good for all of us
TXRanger09
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 1:38:24 AM

Lot of number crunching in this article. But worth the time.
kkimes
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:58:43 AM

The good thing is that it can last forever. But there is an upfront cost. Are we willing to make that investment?
MN1
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:55:42 AM

A long term solution... unlike fossil fuels.
Vetteblu
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:48:16 AM

True.
danindenver
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:16:10 AM

Interesting article
lesndave
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:09:11 AM

Interesting
el_fr
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 12:06:14 AM

Natural gas is cheap right now
NHLiveFree
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 11:46:57 PM


Great choices that everyone should consider for their home and business.

thanks for the fine article vandamme!
MidNJ
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 10:47:43 PM

Very detailed and indepth article.
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 10:24:32 PM

Get rid of government incentives ( subsidies ) and go for it.
TripleHs
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:56:21 PM

if true, it seems amazing and might be the direction to go
YumaFellow
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:48:44 PM

This is another approach that holds some promise, though I am not sure how widespread the application could be.
investmentdr
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:35:56 PM

Just need alternatives
bruin19MD
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 9:26:41 PM

green energy now
lesabreAZ
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 8:47:03 PM

Move out of new england
orphancarguyPE
Champion Author PEI

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 8:40:16 PM

I can attest to this. I have slashed my heating oil use from 4 to 5 tanks a year for heating and hot water, down to under 1 tank a year. I use solar thermal (Cansolair, using less than $10 of electricity a year to run) for half my winter heat and all of my spring and fall heating. The oil boiler furnace runs only as backup and only occasionally and only in the wintertime. All my hot water is now solar heated (Thermo-Dynamics = $0 to run, and no upkeep cost for many years) I will be replacing my oil tank/furnace in the next three years with another solar hot water system, like my domestic hot water system, which will do the hot water in-floor heating that my oil-fired boiler now does--but silent, totally clean, totally carbon-free and no ongoing running costs, cleaning, and fueling. Cost? $7,000. Annual oil cost is nearly $1000 now, and just replacing my oil tank alone will be $2000 in 2015--so my guaranteed payback time to go carbon-free will be 5 years of less.

I'd never recommend heat pumps to anyone--very high capital cost (start at $25,000 and go way way higher) and very substantial running costs (electricity) to operate all year round. Electricity bills in the hundreds per month, forever. It only makes any sort of sense if you have cheap electricity, have a huge home with monstrous heating and monstrous air conditioning costs both, and if you are in it for the long term. $25,000 by comparison, would more than pay for solar how water, solar house heating (air and warm water) AND solar PV panels to run the whole lot and provide all your electricity too--with no running costs either.

My climate is as cold as Maine (and much windier, where I live) and I can do it, then every single house in New England could likely do it too.
listerone
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:57:24 PM

algore....with yet another scam in mind.The last one made him a billionaire,let's see how much this earns him.
agrico
Champion Author New Orleans

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:50:29 PM

The US has cheap energy due to our efficient harvesting of the natural resources God gave us
kiosk12y
Champion Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:47:14 PM

ok...
200porter
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:43:12 PM

I'm surprised at the volume used in New England compared to the rest of the US.
SammyAdams
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:34:11 PM

New England? I wasn't aware that heat pumps were utilized much outside of the southern states. Heat pumps are reverse air units that extract heat from the air, but when the temperatures dip below 40 degrees, there isn't much heat to extract. That's why they typically have back-up systems (electric heat strips, gas, etc.), so you are back to where you started.

humblepie
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:32:54 PM

it still needs susidies and pretty big ones to be feasable
to home owners
Ahking
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:27:29 PM

worth looking into & trying further.
RRBC
Champion Author Victoria

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 7:16:37 PM

Geo thermal is far more to install here than air source heat pumps.
Buck_on_Bass
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:53:40 PM

The bottom line is that incentives are a big part of any program to get PV installed.
YaBassa
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:39:03 PM

My geothermal heating system is a "closed loop" system that does not need a source of water, it just recirculates a water/glycol mix. Expensive to install, but very inexpensive to operate. Great even heating and cooling.
tnfran
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 6:17:10 PM

Would be interesting to find his source for all these numbers. ONe thing he didn't mention in Geothermal systems , you need a source of water which is getting scarcer in many areas of the US.
He also mentions burning pellets or cord wood, not cheap either and where is he going to 'replenish' enough trees every year for the number of those that could or would switch .
Ken2OD
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 5:59:28 PM

There they go again - trying to compare watermelons and eggs.
Buckeyee
Champion Author Maine

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 5:44:52 PM

This would be a great stimulus plan that Obama and the democrats can spend our tax dollars on. Course only union employees could do the work, no one else need apply. At least I would be getting something from all the billions that have been wasted so far. I have been using a electric heater, since it is cheaper then using my oil boiler.
doggod
Champion Author Anchorage

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 5:04:30 PM

Any time I see the word "incentivized" I know the BS dump truck is backing up with the bed rising.

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