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Author Topic: E-15 Ethanol- Why sell/advertise a fuel that DESTROYS fuel lines??? Back to Topics
AnyPort

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Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 9:00:58 PM

If E-15 gas is so harmful to vehicles that manufasctureres are posting warnings that use of that fuel will void any warranty on a vehicle, dealers need to be identified QUICLKLY.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2014 7:14:07 AM

Actually the title of this thread is misleading, as E15, even E85 does not destroy fuel lines.
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Tundralimited2009
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2014 3:44:50 AM

Easy way
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peregrin
All-Star Author Baltimore

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2014 10:17:20 PM

get the corn outta my tank!
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AnyPort
All-Star Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2014 7:21:50 PM

After starting this particular "TOPIC", I must apologize to the members here, because most of what I see is name-calling of other members.

I would like to see a vote: Do I delete this? YES! or NO!
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 2:16:37 PM

Darwinfinch "Saying that personal gain is the only reason to choose ethanol is a slap in the face to those of us who think deeply about the choices we make. "
Really , because i don't think like you i must be a shallow thinker ? I guess all i can say is what ever get's you through the day ......

point by point :"1. In many places, ethanol blends are cheaper by far, even factoring in the 1-2% mileage loss"...well it's not much cheaper here , but the RFS makes sure we have to use it ...

"2. Other reasons to support ethanol: it's homegrown, it's renewable, it supports agriculture, it supports rural economics, it burns cleaner than fossil fuel (by far), and it's a technology with room for improvement. None of that is true of gasoline. "......homegrown ?? there are oil wells everywhere , coal mines , gas wells , wind, solar all homegrown ... renewable ? not really Monsanto has seen to that , the bugs won't even eat there crops anymore , god only knows what this franken-corn is doing to the environment and we will not know for tens to hundreds of years
"rural economics" should i feel bad for farmers ? well i don't ! have you ever looked at the talking points during the Iowa caucus's ?

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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 12:14:57 PM

Rumbleseat : why do you think everything that is said is about you ? do you do that in real life ? i have only"spoken" to you directly i think one time . i am glad you have had such good luck with Ethanol

here in Arizona , Ethanol is not a good deal . ready to Use Ethanol has to be trucked in by train . a small plant was built (paid for with a green energy grant) but corn has to be trucked in and waste products must be trucked out the plant uses a ton of water (in short supply in the desert)and stinks

E85 fuel was only .15 per gal cheaper than E10

yet the RFS is country wide a effects all of us

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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 10:05:08 AM

I have been using high ethanol blends in my non-FFVs for years and have not seen a significant change in mileage at any blend and have had no ethanol related performance or maintenance problems. The only benefit that I get from ethanol is lower cost when I fill up.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 10:04:24 AM

twt wrote: "E-15 is bad for any internal combustion engine, with an electronic ignition."

How so? All mine love it.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 9:34:57 AM

"if any person where not part of Ethanol , why would that person support a product that reduces mileage so much and cost the driver more every year in real $$$$$$$ the only thing i can think of is some sort of personal gain"

1. In many places, ethanol blends are cheaper by far, even factoring in the 1-2% mileage loss.

2. Other reasons to support ethanol: it's homegrown, it's renewable, it supports agriculture, it supports rural economics, it burns cleaner than fossil fuel (by far), and it's a technology with room for improvement. None of that is true of gasoline.

Saying that personal gain is the only reason to choose ethanol is a slap in the face to those of us who think deeply about the choices we make.
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 3:49:17 AM

E-15 is bad for any internal combustion engine, with an electronic ignition. Factory recommendation for each of my vehicles, says to stay away from E-15.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 3:19:35 AM

Lower mileage on E85 only counts if the cost per mile is higher on E85. Vehicle owners are quite capable of figuring it out for themselves. There are a number of people who have posted here that they have figured the break point where it is to their advantage to use E85.

As far as E10 goes, I have posted that my previous car had slightly higher mileage figures once all regular pumps went to E10 and the car had a steady diet of it.
I have posted that my wife's car settled on virtually the same mileage once it had a steady diet of E10.
I have posted that my present car experience a slight but measurable drop when we went on a highway trip across 2 provinces that DIDN'T have E10 in every regular pump.
That doesn't make me an ethanol shill, or part of the ethanol industry, it is simply my recorded personal experience.

Cactus, I haven't felt you were insulting until this thread when you made the statement that we must be part of the ethanol industry.
As I said, we have experienced similar comments before, they are unfounded and inexcusable.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/7/2014 3:25:24 AM EST]
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 12:04:49 AM

SilverStreaker : we have talked about this . you had told me that the MPG was based on BTU . I trust you on this I am sure it is

my feeling is that the EPA loves Ethanol , this was the love child of the Green movement. for years : Ethanol= good , Gasoline/Diesel= bad.

I am sure the EPA used the BTU test to give Ethanol the best results
the real world tests must have been much worse



[Edited by: CactusBobs at 1/7/2014 12:04:07 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 11:34:51 PM

CactusBobs says "just recently i saw the MPG numbers on trucks on E85 vers on E10".
Actual numbers based on fuel purchased and miles driven or the estimates based on BTU content?
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:56:38 PM

rumbleseat : call me what ever you want . i guess i do support big oil .
just recently i saw the MPG numbers on trucks on E85 vers on E10 . the numbers where shocking .

if any person where not part of Ethanol , why would that person support a product that reduces mileage so much and cost the driver more every year in real $$$$$$$
the only thing i can think of is some sort of personal gain

if not money........what ?

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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:29:09 PM

jacksfan : would you like to take anything else i said " out of context " ?

I guess you have owned all 239 million cars and trucks in the USA , that you can speak for all of them .

YOU and PEOPLE like YOU are one of the main reasons i no longer support Ethanol.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:20:02 PM

"most are part of ethanol in one way or another"

That is an ignorant thing to say.
But such unfounded accusations have been made before.
I suppose you will accept it if we call you a Big Oil shill?
Or if we say most people on these boards opposed to ethanol are part of Big Oil?
People who accuse some of us of being paid ethanol shills, or patsies of the ethanol industry usually get quite annoyed at being called paid Big Oil shills, or patsies of the oil industry.
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jacksfan
Champion Author Lincoln

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 11:47:27 AM

CactusBobs, if having your misinformation called out for what is, is pounding you into the ground, then so be it.

"ethanol will destroy fuel lines" That's a whopper! I've run nothing but ethanol-enhanced fuel in all of my vehicles for years and years over hundreds of thousands of miles, and have yet to replace a single fuel line. Not to mention, I've yet to have a single fuel-system-related issue with any of my vehicles.

Such baseless, wild, unfounded claims from the Anti-Ethanol Crowd(TM) deserved to be pounded into the ground, repeatedly.
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 3:28:06 PM

ok
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Alexi7
All-Star Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 2:18:25 PM

A local KwikeeMart just opened that sells everything from E-10 to E-85. I've been using the E-15 in my vehicles without any issues. About 9 cents/gallon cheaper than regular E-10.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 12:49:30 PM

anyport : you are right about the people on this board , most are part of ethanol in one way or another

if you don't agree , they pound you into the ground and call you a shill for the oil industry

the truth is ethanol will destroy fuel lines if let to absorb enough water then the it's the water that will rust out the metal lines
some rubber fuel lines (even some newer ones ) will be effected too , most will be aftermarket tank grommets or filler hoses .

You are not going to change minds here
work towards change in government , you and your friends vote count
it is true we are held hostage by the oil industry but we are also held hostage by the Ethanol industry

today i will brew another batch of biodiesel in my back yard . when i do this i will break a few dozen laws . i have tried to be lawful but there is just no way , the big boys have the system all locked up

this has to change......... VOTE !

[Edited by: CactusBobs at 1/4/2014 12:49:21 PM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 10:00:37 AM

AnyPort, nobody wants to berate newer members.

The nature of your message, including the subject line, was very inaccurate. It is as if you are making a claim that it destroys fuel lines and is harmful to vehicles. Am I wrong in reading it that way? Did I misunderstand the intention of your post? Perhaps, but...

If you claim just to be looking for comments then, the message may have been worded differently. As is, it makes false claims and even tries to attempt to create alarms in people, which are absolutely lies. Even though people have been doing for the entire history of mankind, creating hype based on fear, that is void of fact, is still wrong. But it has been petroleum's strategy for years to keep the monopoly they have. It has been also been those in power's strategy to keep their stranglehold on civil liberties. But look at whats finally happening in Colorado... freedom and choices... a new wave of truth and liberterianism. Ethanol can do the same to break Oil's stranglehold. But they'd rather have you believing that you'll ruin your car with anything but their product.

Apology if you feel it was treated unfairly.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/4/2014 10:07:02 AM EST]
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AnyPort
All-Star Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 9:00:34 AM

krzysiek_ck, Silverstreak, borsht, and others.....I evidently opened an old can of BS that went by long before I joined 'Gas Buddy',
Some simple explanations of past posts is appreciated, but my efforts were to help some soul(s) that were not as knowledgable as some of the folks on here that seem to be just waiting to pounce on newer members.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2013 10:28:02 AM

The Lauren Fix (FOX) story about ethanol was carried by FOX and the API for a few weeks straight. It has been debunked and fact-checked numerous times as paid anti-ethanol publicity. But if you want to cut straight past the debate, consider that Lauren Fix, on her own website, is hocking a fuel additive product that claims to increase gas mileage when used with ethanol blends. She's a soap salesman, nothing more. Google "lauren fix ethanol" to see her bias.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2013 3:20:32 AM

in an everyday car , used everyday none of this happens E10, E15 you mileage will go down but that's it.

In a collector car or a farm truck where it might "sit" for a long time in a wet climate . you should try to keep the Ethanol as low as you can because it will attract water over time

but none of this matters to your modern every day transportation car or truck , where you burn up a tank in a week or two or even three

here in Arizona , where the air is so dry , E10 gasoline will "go bad " and be useless and still has no water in it . I proved this with an old camper(1972) that had an open fuel system , the gasoline (E10) was still in it 3 years after i stopped driving it ,when i pumped it out it was dark yellow and mostly useless , but no water , not one drop !

so a lot of it has to do with the climate you store your gas in.

Television sells "panic" it's nothing new, don't fall for it .



[Edited by: CactusBobs at 12/31/2013 3:21:07 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 25, 2013 11:14:06 PM

AnyPort, I don't know where to start with your YouTube video. There is just too much BS, most of which is spewed by the big oil advocates.
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AnyPort
All-Star Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Dec 25, 2013 7:16:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceW9Nc1hVHU
just reporting what I find....so the smart folks can get it straight for the rest of us.
If yur smart folks...present info contrary to what I present.
If yur not a smart folk...know this: Neither am I. I am hopeing somebody can de-bunk this .
Like I said, ....if there is any truth to this, dealers need to be identified.....QUICK!!!
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 6:49:09 AM

Interesting
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 3:13:30 AM

"The upside of the use of ethanol is that it will serve as a phase out mechanism for older cars." LOL! We all know where the real credibility issue lies.

In the meantime I will continue to drive my 87 Ranger with a tank of ethanol fuel.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 11:15:10 AM

borsht.

1. Learn to post the links.
2. Stop posting the same old garbage, in this case dated 2008, over an over again. It was discussed and debunked already.
3. If your plan is to prove your lack of credibility, then you have accomplished your goal long time ago.
4. I'm still waiting to see your answers.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 12/23/2013 11:18:23 AM EST]
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 10:18:21 AM

An ORNL report on material compatibility with ethanol.
Even stainless steel is vulnerable if in contact with another metal. Thru galvanic corrosion.
Remember, ethanol has was water in it and it is produces ions that real gasoline doesn't.

The upside of the use of ethanol is that it will serve as a phase out mechanism for older cars. Like a virtual cash for clunkers legislation.

It is slow enough that most cars should make it thru the warrantee period.

The use of ethanol as fuel is not as simplistic as the politicians and farmers would lead us to believe.
http://tinyurl.com/mpnwwfv
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 10:10:32 AM

borsht, how many times are you planning to post same garbage over and over? It was explained to you on multiple occasions why this Popular Mechanics "publication" dated 2010 is plain garbage.

I will mention only one.

"Gummed-up fuel systems, damaged tanks and phase separation caused by stray moisture infiltrating fuel systems have plagued many consumers since this mixture debuted, and the problems will only get worse if government policy to increase the proportion of ethanol to gasoline is implemented."

1. Fuel systems will get "gummed-up" because gasoline was run through them and it left deposits. So much for the wonder fuel called GASOLINE.
2. I have asked you this question more than once and I'm still waiting for the answer. How will water enter sealed fuel system? Can I finally get the answer from you?
3. I have used E10 for more than 20+ years and never had problems with phase separation even with fuel sitting still for more than 6 months. How many times did you have the problem with it?

Lets see your answers.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 12/23/2013 10:10:46 AM EST]
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 9:18:41 AM

Never forget that if the human body had a warranty, the use of fossil fuel would void it.
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shinysideup61
Rookie Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 8:40:42 AM

I came across a product that helps fight against the harmful effects of Ethanol. It clears your lines, give better performance and gas mileage. They have a 6 tank challenge that I took. After using one treatment I gained an extra 135 miles to the tank. I'm impressed! If you want to check it out go to: scroll to (shop). The challenge costs about 36 bucks but I can see I'll get my returns on my money in no time.

[Edited by: shinysideup61 at 12/23/2013 8:43:15 AM EST]
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namzza6310
All-Star Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 8:22:21 AM

ethanol will not destroy stainless steel fuel lines.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 4:31:16 AM

borsht, you have been a member plenty long enough to use the "insert link" function. Please do so.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 1:38:47 AM

"All historical automobile clubs oppose the ethanol mandates." Just goes to show that anyone can be brainwashed.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 11:52:49 AM

I have been running high ethanol blends in two non-FFVs for over 4 years and have never had an ethanol related maintenance or performance issue. Why do you think ethanol destroys fuel lines?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 10:05:37 AM

A good article on the the foolishness of oxygenated fuel.
http://tinyurl.com/2cb4qwg
The oxygenated fuel was introduced to lower the CO emissions of older cars that wern't equipped with recirculation.
So, the newer cars that have been designed to accommodate oxygenated fuels don't need the oxygenated fuel.
The older ones where it might help are being harmed by the ethanol.

All historical automobile clubs oppose the ethanol mandates.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 12:39:09 AM

"An article in Bloomberg
Presents the case against the hasty move to higher levels of etanol in fuel."

In the first place Bloomberg is no authority on ethanol fuels, and it never has caused a damage to a fuel line.

And it is not mandatory to use anywhere in America.
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nighthawk91
Sophomore Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 11:13:01 PM

I have been running a 20-30% ethanol blend for close to 2 years in a 2001 Century. No issues for me.



[Edited by: nighthawk91 at 12/21/2013 11:12:57 PM EST]
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 10:40:55 PM

An article in Bloomberg
Presents the case against the hasty move to higher levels of etanol in fuel.
http://tinyurl.com/mtp4woc
“We all agree that renewable fuels are an important part of our national energy security, but it is not in the longer term interest of consumers, the government, and all parties involved to discover after-the-fact that equipment or performance problems are occurring because a new fuel was rushed into the national marketplace,” said Wade Newton, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, whose members include Chrysler, Ford and Toyota.
About 12 million of more than 240 million vehicles on U.S. roads have been cleared for expanded ethanol use, including all flex-fuel car models, General Motors Co. (GM) vehicles made since model year 2012 and Ford vehicles made in the 2013 model year. Heavy-duty vehicles, boats, motorcycles, power equipment, lawn mowers and off-road vehicles are prohibited from using E15.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 9:49:50 PM

E-15 does not destroy fuel lines in any way. What kind of misinformation are you trying to perpetuate? Your statement is false, void of anything factual, and uninformed.

E-15 is the most tested fuel in history and has been proven NOT to be detrimental to anything, on any car post 2001, but in reality it's 1994.

And as for the manufacturers, most vehicles that E-15 has been proven safe on are out of warranty anyway. GM, Chrysler, and Ford have fully endorsed E-15 for all models 2013 and newer.

It works fine, and is a whole lot better than gas is, for any vehicle made after 2001.


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 12/21/2013 9:55:11 PM EST]
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