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Author Topic: E-15 Ethanol- Why sell/advertise a fuel that DESTROYS fuel lines??? Back to Topics
AnyPort

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Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 9:00:58 PM

If E-15 gas is so harmful to vehicles that manufasctureres are posting warnings that use of that fuel will void any warranty on a vehicle, dealers need to be identified QUICLKLY.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 2:08:38 AM

I don't pay $12+/gal for ethanol-free fuel for my boat, lawn equipment, and generator, I use ethanol fuels and have for 15 years in all my small engines with no issues.
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LilBlueElement
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2014 2:04:34 PM


My objection to E-10 isn't with gas for my street vehicle as the fuel is turned over often enough to avoid any problems, though I'm not thrilled about the mileage hit I took over what I was getting when MTBE was the oxygenate. And yes, I completely understand the need for an oxygenate, having grown up here in SoCal in the '60s/70's and suffering through countless smog alerts.

What I don't like is having to pay $12+/gal for ethanol-free fuel for my boat, lawn equipment, and generator.

[Edited by: LilBlueElement at 7/6/2014 2:05:04 PM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2014 12:09:40 AM

Nope....corrosion is a non-factor in ethanol fuels. The reason is simple. Corrosion inhibitors are added to ethanol fuels. Guess what? Corrosion inhibitors are added to gasoline too. Also to your anti-freeze.
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LilBlueElement
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 5:07:05 PM

@sh
It's the ultra-premium racing brake fluids (like Motul RBF600 or ATE Super Blue) that are the most hygroscopic, regular street fluid not as much. And ya, master cylinders, wheel cylinders, and calipers get replaced all the time. The corrosion is different from moisture in fuel systems; there the problem is not so much the moisture, but rather with the sulfuric acid byproduct.

BTW I'm not anti-ethanol. It's an essential component of a good margarita!
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 4:15:41 PM

E10 has been the standard fuel in Minnesota for decades. Why are all those cars still running?
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sh1361
Sophomore Author Birmingham

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 3:04:21 PM

Brake fluid is hygroscopic too. Think about all of the hydraulic brake systems that have not been flushed.
Are we inline for massive brake failure across the country because of moisture absorbed by brake fluid?
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LilBlueElement
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 1:21:09 PM

@H
Laugh away. You've obviously never rebuilt a marine engine. And thank God aviation fuel is exempt from the ethanol mandate. Ethanol is hygroscopic, it's 8th grade chemistry.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 10:02:48 AM

Shockjock1961,

Do you really think that your twisted statement fools anyone? The article stated that the only problem confirmed was higher exhaust temperatures. But in automobiles, that has been moot, the difference in percentage has no effect. An automible is not a lawnmower.

Nobody cares about E-15, it's a waste of time. Nobody will ever be forced to use E-15. As long as there are small engines that do not allow more then 10% ethanol, there WILL BE 10% ethanol to purchase, for those types of products. What a way to twist reality and spin it to perpetuate a lie!

Today's flex fuel CARS and TRUCKS, and even a John Deer lawnmower (a specific model, can't recall which) can run on ANY percentage up to 85% ethanol, trouble free. I can also tell you that I have heard the president of the OUTDOOR POWER EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER'S ASSOCIATION stating in a radio ad that E-10 was fine for outdoor power equipment. I suggest watching this 60 second ad by the president of the outdoor power equipment manufacturers association.


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 7/5/2014 10:08:02 AM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 9:35:37 AM

18andLife,

Over 180,000 miles two Hyundais, a 2006 (110,000) and a 2009 (75,000) since day one off the lot on both. No fuel system issues with mixes never lower than 30%, and up to 60% at times, ethanol. My experiences are similar to Silver's. BEFORE THAT I did the same with 2 GM's, both 1995 sedans, 3.1L V-6 engines, although I bought both at about 50K. When I got rid of those, no fuel system issues. They were notorius for heater core problems and in both cases I got a new Hyundai and began the ethanol journey from driving off the lot.

and.. LilBlue, I needed a good laugh today, thanks for that. I certainly understand your confusion, it isn't your fault. It's the intentional misinformation that we have been bombarded with. Look for the truth through ethanol, it's much clearer to see. And breathe. And keep engines running longer.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 7/5/2014 9:39:26 AM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2014 2:07:40 AM

"Ethanol is hygroscopic (moisture-absorbing); the resulting corrosion of fuel system components from the water is why automakers* say not to use it in any vehicle not specifically designed for it. Even the relatively little alcohol in E-10 will ruin your outboard motor or lawn equipment."

Blue element. Did you just make this up, or don't you know any better?

Ethanol actually prevents moisture buildup.
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LilBlueElement
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2014 2:40:30 PM


Ethanol is hygroscopic (moisture-absorbing); the resulting corrosion of fuel system components from the water is why automakers* say not to use it in any vehicle not specifically designed for it. Even the relatively little alcohol in E-10 will ruin your outboard motor or lawn equipment.

*BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Volkswagen, GM, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, and Volvo
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 29, 2014 9:39:02 PM

18 - I too liked the movie, plus the CRV is silver and I like going fast.

The ECU in your 1998 will adjust your air/fuel mixture to a certain extent. The worse thing that I have experienced from using too high an ethanol content is that the Check Engine Light (CEL) comes on, which indicates too much oxygen in the exhaust. In my Ford Windstar, I had to get the ECU history memory refreshed in order for the CEL to go out. You can get a reader/reset-er from an auto parts store, but I just had my auto parts store do it for me for free.

The CRV has a separate emissions light that goes on instead of the CEL if I put too much ethanol in. That was about 35% in the CRV, compared with 65% in the Windstar.
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18andLife
Sophomore Author Charleston

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Message Posted: May 29, 2014 7:57:07 PM

Thank you SilverStreaker. Is your name from the movie? Great movie. Mine is from the Skid Row song, specifically the line "His face poured gasoline!"

My concerns aren't about fuel lines, I am sure they can take it. My fuel system is cleaned regularly, so no worries about the cleaning effects of ethanol causing problems.

I am concerned that Subaru specifically says not to use it. I have read about E85 conversions on newer cars, but mine is a 1998 and I don't know what the limits on air-fuel ratio are and don't know if that would lean out the engine enough to do damage. My car seems to run rich when cold anyway, so maybe that isn't going to be a problem. If E15 or higher is coming anyway, as I understand it is in one area mandatory E20, then I would imagine at minimum I need a tune-up to compensate for the difference in fuel.

I imagine if we were using bio-butanol instead of ethanol we probably wouldn't even have anything to worry about. It burns much more closely to gasoline. Even here in a state that labels I have heard of stations that sell gas with too much ethanol, one time as high as 35%, so why worry about something I can't control. Your thoughts?

-Buddy.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 29, 2014 7:27:14 PM

18andLife, I started blending E85 with regular gas in two vehicles in 2007. I've had over 40% ethanol in a 2003 Honda CRV and over 60% ethanol in a 2000 Ford Windstar and have never had an ethanol related performance or maintenance issue. I also haven't seen any significant change in mileage at any blend.
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18andLife
Sophomore Author Charleston

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Message Posted: May 29, 2014 6:32:39 PM

I came here looking for real-world information on what would happen if I get greater than E10 in my car, a 1998 Subaru Forester, non-turbo. I am not worried about misfueling, as locally all pumps have to be labeled over 1.5% ethanol, but overblending does happen, and when I travel I pass through states, like NC that do not label. I want to know what, if anything, will happen to my engine and fuel system if I get a full tank of, say unlabeled E20 or E30, when the car manufacturer specifically states not to use anything over E10 in any non-FFV car, even after MY2001. I would probably burn through the entire tank in hours, but I can't find anything, anywhere about specific information. I may have to ask my mechanic at the dealership, and then get more opinions and experience.

I think this topic should be "locked" (which is a slow death similar to deletion as it can't be bumped anymore) UNLESS relevant information is provided to balance the flame-war. Maybe we would be better off starting a new thread.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 2, 2014 9:16:33 AM

I10Express wrote: "It lowers the mpg and I doubt that any terrorist are funded by domestic oil and gas"

When did we stop buying from OPEC? Please share the wonderful news I missed.
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I10Express
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: May 2, 2014 9:13:38 AM

It lowers the mpg and I doubt that any terrorist are funded by domestic oil and gas
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TheSicilian
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: May 2, 2014 8:55:02 AM

this is real bad stuff
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 2, 2014 8:22:21 AM

Terrorists love crude oil and gasoline since that is where they get their support funds. Ignorant people love it as well. The rest of us, not so much.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 5/2/2014 8:25:56 AM EST]
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JohnofGB
Champion Author Flint

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Message Posted: May 2, 2014 6:57:24 AM

Farmers and corn belt politicians love it. The rest of us,not so much
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2014 10:52:38 AM

Shocky, what reputable news source did your information come from? Who was the "reporter"?

There is nothing to support your claim on the US EPA's website for E15: Notices & Regulations
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furball64801
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2014 9:07:39 AM

I have used splash mix for over 5 yrs and never had a repair other than brakes which is a normal repair. I have put in as much as 50% and my car runs better than ever. I have been driving 50 yrs and this car runs as well as the day I bought it, maybe even better.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2014 8:56:31 AM

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has finally admitted officially that the ethanol in the E15 fuels have serious negative impacts on the engines running it
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2014 7:14:07 AM

Actually the title of this thread is misleading, as E15, even E85 does not destroy fuel lines.
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Tundralimited2009
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2014 3:44:50 AM

Easy way
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peregrin
Champion Author Baltimore

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2014 10:17:20 PM

get the corn outta my tank!
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AnyPort
Champion Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2014 7:21:50 PM

After starting this particular "TOPIC", I must apologize to the members here, because most of what I see is name-calling of other members.

I would like to see a vote: Do I delete this? YES! or NO!
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 2:16:37 PM

Darwinfinch "Saying that personal gain is the only reason to choose ethanol is a slap in the face to those of us who think deeply about the choices we make. "
Really , because i don't think like you i must be a shallow thinker ? I guess all i can say is what ever get's you through the day ......

point by point :"1. In many places, ethanol blends are cheaper by far, even factoring in the 1-2% mileage loss"...well it's not much cheaper here , but the RFS makes sure we have to use it ...

"2. Other reasons to support ethanol: it's homegrown, it's renewable, it supports agriculture, it supports rural economics, it burns cleaner than fossil fuel (by far), and it's a technology with room for improvement. None of that is true of gasoline. "......homegrown ?? there are oil wells everywhere , coal mines , gas wells , wind, solar all homegrown ... renewable ? not really Monsanto has seen to that , the bugs won't even eat there crops anymore , god only knows what this franken-corn is doing to the environment and we will not know for tens to hundreds of years
"rural economics" should i feel bad for farmers ? well i don't ! have you ever looked at the talking points during the Iowa caucus's ?

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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 12:14:57 PM

Rumbleseat : why do you think everything that is said is about you ? do you do that in real life ? i have only"spoken" to you directly i think one time . i am glad you have had such good luck with Ethanol

here in Arizona , Ethanol is not a good deal . ready to Use Ethanol has to be trucked in by train . a small plant was built (paid for with a green energy grant) but corn has to be trucked in and waste products must be trucked out the plant uses a ton of water (in short supply in the desert)and stinks

E85 fuel was only .15 per gal cheaper than E10

yet the RFS is country wide a effects all of us

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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 10:05:08 AM

I have been using high ethanol blends in my non-FFVs for years and have not seen a significant change in mileage at any blend and have had no ethanol related performance or maintenance problems. The only benefit that I get from ethanol is lower cost when I fill up.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 10:04:24 AM

twt wrote: "E-15 is bad for any internal combustion engine, with an electronic ignition."

How so? All mine love it.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 9:34:57 AM

"if any person where not part of Ethanol , why would that person support a product that reduces mileage so much and cost the driver more every year in real $$$$$$$ the only thing i can think of is some sort of personal gain"

1. In many places, ethanol blends are cheaper by far, even factoring in the 1-2% mileage loss.

2. Other reasons to support ethanol: it's homegrown, it's renewable, it supports agriculture, it supports rural economics, it burns cleaner than fossil fuel (by far), and it's a technology with room for improvement. None of that is true of gasoline.

Saying that personal gain is the only reason to choose ethanol is a slap in the face to those of us who think deeply about the choices we make.
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 3:49:17 AM

E-15 is bad for any internal combustion engine, with an electronic ignition. Factory recommendation for each of my vehicles, says to stay away from E-15.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 3:19:35 AM

Lower mileage on E85 only counts if the cost per mile is higher on E85. Vehicle owners are quite capable of figuring it out for themselves. There are a number of people who have posted here that they have figured the break point where it is to their advantage to use E85.

As far as E10 goes, I have posted that my previous car had slightly higher mileage figures once all regular pumps went to E10 and the car had a steady diet of it.
I have posted that my wife's car settled on virtually the same mileage once it had a steady diet of E10.
I have posted that my present car experience a slight but measurable drop when we went on a highway trip across 2 provinces that DIDN'T have E10 in every regular pump.
That doesn't make me an ethanol shill, or part of the ethanol industry, it is simply my recorded personal experience.

Cactus, I haven't felt you were insulting until this thread when you made the statement that we must be part of the ethanol industry.
As I said, we have experienced similar comments before, they are unfounded and inexcusable.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/7/2014 3:25:24 AM EST]
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2014 12:04:49 AM

SilverStreaker : we have talked about this . you had told me that the MPG was based on BTU . I trust you on this I am sure it is

my feeling is that the EPA loves Ethanol , this was the love child of the Green movement. for years : Ethanol= good , Gasoline/Diesel= bad.

I am sure the EPA used the BTU test to give Ethanol the best results
the real world tests must have been much worse



[Edited by: CactusBobs at 1/7/2014 12:04:07 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 11:34:51 PM

CactusBobs says "just recently i saw the MPG numbers on trucks on E85 vers on E10".
Actual numbers based on fuel purchased and miles driven or the estimates based on BTU content?
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:56:38 PM

rumbleseat : call me what ever you want . i guess i do support big oil .
just recently i saw the MPG numbers on trucks on E85 vers on E10 . the numbers where shocking .

if any person where not part of Ethanol , why would that person support a product that reduces mileage so much and cost the driver more every year in real $$$$$$$
the only thing i can think of is some sort of personal gain

if not money........what ?

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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:29:09 PM

jacksfan : would you like to take anything else i said " out of context " ?

I guess you have owned all 239 million cars and trucks in the USA , that you can speak for all of them .

YOU and PEOPLE like YOU are one of the main reasons i no longer support Ethanol.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 6:20:02 PM

"most are part of ethanol in one way or another"

That is an ignorant thing to say.
But such unfounded accusations have been made before.
I suppose you will accept it if we call you a Big Oil shill?
Or if we say most people on these boards opposed to ethanol are part of Big Oil?
People who accuse some of us of being paid ethanol shills, or patsies of the ethanol industry usually get quite annoyed at being called paid Big Oil shills, or patsies of the oil industry.
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jacksfan
Champion Author Lincoln

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 11:47:27 AM

CactusBobs, if having your misinformation called out for what is, is pounding you into the ground, then so be it.

"ethanol will destroy fuel lines" That's a whopper! I've run nothing but ethanol-enhanced fuel in all of my vehicles for years and years over hundreds of thousands of miles, and have yet to replace a single fuel line. Not to mention, I've yet to have a single fuel-system-related issue with any of my vehicles.

Such baseless, wild, unfounded claims from the Anti-Ethanol Crowd(TM) deserved to be pounded into the ground, repeatedly.
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 3:28:06 PM

ok
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Alexi7
All-Star Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 2:18:25 PM

A local KwikeeMart just opened that sells everything from E-10 to E-85. I've been using the E-15 in my vehicles without any issues. About 9 cents/gallon cheaper than regular E-10.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 12:49:30 PM

anyport : you are right about the people on this board , most are part of ethanol in one way or another

if you don't agree , they pound you into the ground and call you a shill for the oil industry

the truth is ethanol will destroy fuel lines if let to absorb enough water then the it's the water that will rust out the metal lines
some rubber fuel lines (even some newer ones ) will be effected too , most will be aftermarket tank grommets or filler hoses .

You are not going to change minds here
work towards change in government , you and your friends vote count
it is true we are held hostage by the oil industry but we are also held hostage by the Ethanol industry

today i will brew another batch of biodiesel in my back yard . when i do this i will break a few dozen laws . i have tried to be lawful but there is just no way , the big boys have the system all locked up

this has to change......... VOTE !

[Edited by: CactusBobs at 1/4/2014 12:49:21 PM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 10:00:37 AM

AnyPort, nobody wants to berate newer members.

The nature of your message, including the subject line, was very inaccurate. It is as if you are making a claim that it destroys fuel lines and is harmful to vehicles. Am I wrong in reading it that way? Did I misunderstand the intention of your post? Perhaps, but...

If you claim just to be looking for comments then, the message may have been worded differently. As is, it makes false claims and even tries to attempt to create alarms in people, which are absolutely lies. Even though people have been doing for the entire history of mankind, creating hype based on fear, that is void of fact, is still wrong. But it has been petroleum's strategy for years to keep the monopoly they have. It has been also been those in power's strategy to keep their stranglehold on civil liberties. But look at whats finally happening in Colorado... freedom and choices... a new wave of truth and liberterianism. Ethanol can do the same to break Oil's stranglehold. But they'd rather have you believing that you'll ruin your car with anything but their product.

Apology if you feel it was treated unfairly.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/4/2014 10:07:02 AM EST]
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AnyPort
Champion Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2014 9:00:34 AM

krzysiek_ck, Silverstreak, borsht, and others.....I evidently opened an old can of BS that went by long before I joined 'Gas Buddy',
Some simple explanations of past posts is appreciated, but my efforts were to help some soul(s) that were not as knowledgable as some of the folks on here that seem to be just waiting to pounce on newer members.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2013 10:28:02 AM

The Lauren Fix (FOX) story about ethanol was carried by FOX and the API for a few weeks straight. It has been debunked and fact-checked numerous times as paid anti-ethanol publicity. But if you want to cut straight past the debate, consider that Lauren Fix, on her own website, is hocking a fuel additive product that claims to increase gas mileage when used with ethanol blends. She's a soap salesman, nothing more. Google "lauren fix ethanol" to see her bias.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2013 3:20:32 AM

in an everyday car , used everyday none of this happens E10, E15 you mileage will go down but that's it.

In a collector car or a farm truck where it might "sit" for a long time in a wet climate . you should try to keep the Ethanol as low as you can because it will attract water over time

but none of this matters to your modern every day transportation car or truck , where you burn up a tank in a week or two or even three

here in Arizona , where the air is so dry , E10 gasoline will "go bad " and be useless and still has no water in it . I proved this with an old camper(1972) that had an open fuel system , the gasoline (E10) was still in it 3 years after i stopped driving it ,when i pumped it out it was dark yellow and mostly useless , but no water , not one drop !

so a lot of it has to do with the climate you store your gas in.

Television sells "panic" it's nothing new, don't fall for it .



[Edited by: CactusBobs at 12/31/2013 3:21:07 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 25, 2013 11:14:06 PM

AnyPort, I don't know where to start with your YouTube video. There is just too much BS, most of which is spewed by the big oil advocates.
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AnyPort
Champion Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Dec 25, 2013 7:16:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceW9Nc1hVHU
just reporting what I find....so the smart folks can get it straight for the rest of us.
If yur smart folks...present info contrary to what I present.
If yur not a smart folk...know this: Neither am I. I am hopeing somebody can de-bunk this .
Like I said, ....if there is any truth to this, dealers need to be identified.....QUICK!!!
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 6:49:09 AM

Interesting
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 3:13:30 AM

"The upside of the use of ethanol is that it will serve as a phase out mechanism for older cars." LOL! We all know where the real credibility issue lies.

In the meantime I will continue to drive my 87 Ranger with a tank of ethanol fuel.
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