Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    9:55 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: All Things Ethanol > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Fuel Cost and MPG Back to Topics
zippy3231

Champion Author
Jacksonville

Posts:2,320
Points:871,935
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2013 9:35:40 AM

Has anyone switched to Ethanol Free Fuels and has there been a cost savings such as a increase MPG or less maintenance cost?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

Posts:7,449
Points:2,095,810
Joined:Oct 2005
Message Posted: Jun 25, 2014 5:50:42 PM

My fuel tank is never completely empty. Thus when I switch between gasohol and E85, the percentage ethanol is never the same. My spreadsheet calculates the average ethanol percentage each tankful. Not hard to do, just try it.
Profile Pic
Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

Posts:964
Points:24,300
Joined:Apr 2010
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 1:41:51 PM

Nobody would claim E-85 in a FFV gets the same as gasoline. Grumpycat, however, continues to spread misinformation.

30% is not the mileage loss incurred on E-85 in actual use. The EPA does not test vehicles on E-85, so they incorrectly base the calculation on BRITISH THERMAL UNITS. This is a measurement of heat, much of which gets wasted in an internal combustion engine. This has been debated to death here before... and in reality BTU content does not translate into a percentage directly to MPG when burning any liquid fuel in an engine.

What has been proven over and over is that with E-85 over gasoline, all highway, the loss is about 14% in FFVs. All city, it is close to 20%. Combination of driving conditions, the number somewhere in between.

And, to Silver's point, blends of up to E-30, it is very hard to see a difference when burning E-30 whether it's in a FFV or a non FFV.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/24/2014 1:45:49 PM EST]
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,222
Points:2,833,595
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 1:40:21 PM

GrumpyCat claims "It needs to be 30% less than E10 to break even."
I've been blending ethanol in non-FFVs for almost 7 years and haven't seen any significant change in mileage at any blend.
Profile Pic
GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:5,531
Points:1,299,955
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 12:20:16 PM

"I bot E85 yesterday at 23% less than gasohol. Maybe I'll share the results."

It needs to be 30% less than E10 to break even.

One tank will not yield accurate results because you are still mixing high energy gasoline.
Profile Pic
PANCHO56
Veteran Author Austin

Posts:474
Points:37,910
Joined:Nov 2011
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 11:24:06 AM

MPG are less with E85
Profile Pic
PANCHO56
Veteran Author Austin

Posts:474
Points:37,910
Joined:Nov 2011
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 11:21:40 AM

Ethanol is not a solution
Profile Pic
stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

Posts:7,449
Points:2,095,810
Joined:Oct 2005
Message Posted: Jun 24, 2014 8:41:11 AM

I bot E85 yesterday at 23% less than gasohol. Maybe I'll share the results.
Profile Pic
GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:5,531
Points:1,299,955
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Jun 23, 2014 10:25:14 AM

"I find gas mileage goes down 2 - 5 mpg. using E-85."

Thats about right, from 15 MPG to 10 MPG.
Profile Pic
46chief
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:4,515
Points:2,436,065
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jun 22, 2014 11:40:19 AM

I find gas mileage goes down 2 - 5 mpg. using E-85.
Profile Pic
EvergreenON
Champion Author Ontario

Posts:2,448
Points:928,830
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: May 8, 2014 6:39:35 AM

I get very lower mileage with Ethanol the engine become noisy
Profile Pic
goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

Posts:23,172
Points:3,366,260
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: May 8, 2014 3:23:00 AM

I get the same mileage when I use e10 and at 20 cents less per gallon.
Profile Pic
miniskunk
Sophomore Author Montana

Posts:113
Points:1,240,960
Joined:Dec 2008
Message Posted: May 7, 2014 8:04:48 PM

I see about 10% improvement from 22-23mpg on the highway to 24-25mpg when using ethanol free gas. With ethanol free fuel costing in my area 35 cents more than regular with ethanol blend, it's a wash in terms of fuel economy improvement. If your car normally needs mid grade fuel, you will realise some savings in the dollar or two per tankful range depending on how efficient your vehicle is. The best way to figure this out is keep track of what your MPG is for the grade of ethanol blended fuel you normally use. Divide the price by your average MPG to determine per mile cost and multiply the difference by the number of gallons your tank holds times the number of miles MPG you get. Do the same for ethanol free fuel to determine your per mile cost difference or estimate it by using the 10% gain average.

Example: I get 25 MPG times with a tank capacity of 15 gallons equals 375 miles. Multiply that by a the per mile cost difference (half a cent in my case) equals $1.87 savings for me per tank. Also keep in mind the long term savings on engine repair alone from the negative ethanol effects. That alone justifies the short term cost of paying the ethanol free premium if you normally use regular grade.



[Edited by: miniskunk at 5/7/2014 8:06:28 PM EST]
Profile Pic
scrossi
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,626
Points:1,691,765
Joined:Dec 2008
Message Posted: May 4, 2014 9:28:42 AM

Ban ethanol.
Profile Pic
cigarman409
Champion Author Massachusetts

Posts:6,905
Points:2,446,265
Joined:Jul 2007
Message Posted: May 4, 2014 8:14:54 AM

No ethanol please
Profile Pic
tklsr
Champion Author Akron

Posts:1,141
Points:1,028,525
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 9:17:30 PM

why?
Profile Pic
arnerator
Champion Author Seattle

Posts:10,891
Points:2,253,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 1:05:13 PM

Hard to find that... but Google it... there are stations near marinas and othr spots.
Profile Pic
Rich_pa
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:2,623
Points:821,340
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 9:55:42 AM

I can not find it around Cincinnati.
Profile Pic
goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

Posts:23,172
Points:3,366,260
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 3:33:41 AM

Ethanol free gas is 20 cents higher around here. Since I lose no mileage on ethanol fuels it is a no brainer what I use.
Profile Pic
Wanderer417
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:1,356
Points:372,825
Joined:Feb 2014
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 12:16:15 AM

Reduced my fuel efficiency by approximately 33%. Now I search for 91 or higher octane without ethanol.
Profile Pic
JohnofGB
Champion Author Flint

Posts:8,162
Points:1,741,070
Joined:Feb 2010
Message Posted: May 3, 2014 12:03:50 AM

I wonder if the government does the MPG rating with or without ethanol based fuel?
Profile Pic
1COR1533
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:4,345
Points:941,940
Joined:Jun 2012
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 9:51:14 PM

no way
Profile Pic
arnerator
Champion Author Seattle

Posts:10,891
Points:2,253,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 9:20:40 PM

It costs me about 10 per cent in mpg.......junk
Profile Pic
tklsr
Champion Author Akron

Posts:1,141
Points:1,028,525
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 8:48:58 PM

no
Profile Pic
FBI2991
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:6,683
Points:1,773,750
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 5:28:56 PM

It burns more energy to produce than it saves
Profile Pic
giwan
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:1,636
Points:220,995
Joined:Aug 2009
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 12:09:24 PM

There should be a slight increase but is it noticeable not sure
Profile Pic
PrototypeDevil
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:2,724
Points:847,120
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: May 2, 2014 10:51:50 AM

k
Profile Pic
bbt83221
Rookie Author Idaho

Posts:45
Points:353,000
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Mar 15, 2014 12:44:07 AM

my car's mileage is higher on ethanol-free gasoline. Not a big increase but it is better.
Profile Pic
buickentury
All-Star Author Madison

Posts:638
Points:545,340
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Mar 9, 2014 10:32:52 PM

No where to buy here. But when I've seen it its been significantly more expensive. I'm guessing it would be a zero sum game at best.
Profile Pic
JueceFlavour
Rookie Author Washington

Posts:63
Points:720
Joined:Mar 2014
Message Posted: Mar 7, 2014 11:59:44 PM

I wished I lived closer to my work. I'd ride a bike all the time. But I do not. So, I drive.HAHA...Wrong tab - topic...lol

[Edited by: JueceFlavour at 3/8/2014 12:00:57 AM EST]
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,222
Points:2,833,595
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 10:33:02 AM

I use gasoline free transportation as much as possible. It's called a bicycle.
Profile Pic
GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:5,531
Points:1,299,955
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Jan 6, 2014 1:20:13 PM

I'm using ethanol-free electricity.
Profile Pic
RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

Posts:5,339
Points:610,250
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 3:29:47 PM

ok
Profile Pic
46chief
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:4,515
Points:2,436,065
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 5, 2014 1:35:24 PM

All fuel here has ethanol in it. I would have to drive 20 miles one-way to buy straight gasoline.
Profile Pic
skeeter3001
Rookie Author Oklahoma

Posts:8
Points:1,055
Joined:Jan 2014
Message Posted: Jan 2, 2014 1:24:24 AM

Dont think it'd be worth the extra money for me to find another station thats free of ethanol. Mine switched recently and im not sure yet whats if any difference. Except its cheaper now with the ethanol.
Profile Pic
kennyman
Champion Author Alberta

Posts:2,088
Points:414,770
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Dec 27, 2013 8:03:55 PM

I think all gasoline has ethanol blend.
Profile Pic
RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

Posts:5,339
Points:610,250
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 6:48:23 AM

No I haven't.
Profile Pic
GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:5,531
Points:1,299,955
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 1:11:44 AM

"Ethanol-less fuel is available in my state but I haven't switched back to it because it's 40 cents more per gallon with really no benefit to my car, my personal health, or my environmental footprint."

Around here its getting to the point the only ethanol-free to be found is 93 octane and more expensive than diesel. 40 cents would be about normal premium for premium, but ethanol-free premium is sometimes $1.00 over E10 87 octane.
Profile Pic
zippy3231
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:2,320
Points:871,935
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 3:56:10 AM

Thank You for the updates and information to my question!
Profile Pic
coffeerage
Champion Author Las Vegas

Posts:1,817
Points:288,700
Joined:Oct 2005
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2013 4:59:50 PM

No choice here.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,995
Points:2,829,240
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2013 11:30:18 AM

Due to the Federal Minimum usage mandate, you cannot buy ethanol free fuels in my area.
Profile Pic
rodmiser
Champion Author Missouri

Posts:9,553
Points:2,485,000
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2013 11:25:43 AM

e10 17mpg to e85 sorry to say 13mpg
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,222
Points:2,833,595
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Dec 13, 2013 10:11:50 AM

No, but I switched to Ethanol Enriched Fuels about 4 years ago. I haven't seen any significant change in mileage at any blend and since E85 costs less than regular gas, the more ethanol I blend, the more I save. Absolutely no ethanol related performance or maintenance issues.
Profile Pic
skunku
Champion Author Salt Lake City

Posts:3,050
Points:700,660
Joined:Dec 2012
Message Posted: Dec 13, 2013 5:23:53 AM

I don't know where to buy any or how much more it would cost here.
Profile Pic
RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

Posts:5,339
Points:610,250
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2013 10:01:14 PM

No way
Profile Pic
CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

Posts:4,322
Points:944,365
Joined:Jun 2010
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2013 9:37:48 PM

E0 will give you better mileage , but in most cases E0 is costly and not worth the extra cost
E0 or E10 you will have the same maintenance
with E0 you will get better mileage , but every car is different some do much better and some the MPG will not change much at all


In my case the only two places that have E0 are a marina @ over 1.00 more and a race track that sells "94" @ over 2.00 more than E10 , each one of these are 30-40 miles from my home , so i would have to drive all that way to fill up on more expensive gas , then drive back ! No thanks i am not that dumb

But you will need to try it to tell what your story will be , do a cost per mile , per fill up
the same way you check your mileage

just divide the total cost of the fill up into the miles driven to get the cost per mile

then check it with a few tanks of each fuel and you will have your answer , it might work for you or not , only you can find that out

good luck





[Edited by: CactusBobs at 12/12/2013 9:43:00 PM EST]
Profile Pic
darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

Posts:457
Points:6,860
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2013 10:51:40 AM

Ethanol-less fuel is available in my state but I haven't switched back to it because it's 40 cents more per gallon with really no benefit to my car, my personal health, or my environmental footprint.

As much as the API and AAA keep warning me that my car will fall apart if I use ethanol blends, it hasn't happened yet and in fact my mechanic says things look abnormally good for such an old vehicle.
Post a reply Back to Topics