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Hannie59

All-Star Author
Appleton

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 10:22:07 AM

Just what is driving food prices higher today? Every step of the food supply chain is reliant on petroleum products – from the use of diesel fuel in farm machinery, to the use of natural gas in food processing plants, to the use of plastics in food packaging, to the use of gasoline in diesel fuel to transport food to the grocery store or restaurant. The correlation coefficient between global food price and global petroleum prices since 2000 has been 0.92, which indicates a near – perfect relationship (1.0 is a perfect correlation). The Department of energy cites that the average product in the grocery store comes from over 1000 miles away from its origination. This to satisfy consumer demand for same type of products the year-round.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 11/23/2013 10:23:50 AM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 3:36:40 PM

As Soylent points out the price of corn makes up very little of the cost of a box of corn flakes. And as Hannie points out the price of fuel to distribute the product, as well fuel to run the tractors and combines etc. to produce the corn has more impact on the price than the cost of corn.

But a huge part of the price of food is not in the raw material. It is in the delivery, marketing, and brand awareness of the companies trying to sell it to us. That is true for every thing we buy as consumers. The cost of food arguement is mute.

The issue is freedom of choice. Consummers have very little choice in those matters many times. If one chooses to consume ethanol free gas, they cannot in most locations. Ethanol use is mandated and therefore ethanol has a guarenteed market share. It is and always has been a matter of choice. You can present facts all day long and that still will not change some peoples opinions or consumption patterns. Fact is I do not think there is a person with any reasonable inteligence in the US that does not know that tobacco is harmful to your health. Regardless of this and governments efforts to tax it out of exsistence there is still a demand for the product. People have that choice. The point here is that many if not most consummers do not have that choice when it comes to buying ethanol free gas. Yes you will say you can get the product and you can but in many instances you are forced to travel hundreds of miles to get it. With cigerettes regardless of how bad they are for you you can still get them at the corner store.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2014 7:44:09 AM

"None of the results spoke of corn prices coming down and all those articles pointed to rising prices. If they are truly dropping lately, great, you get points on that."

You really should have checked the corn futures chart before you made such a statement. At least you would appear to know something about the subject. Or maybe look at the dates of your articles. I quit reading these for awhile because I was tired of people talking with no knowledge. I should have stayed with me good book.
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aRBy
All-Star Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2014 9:15:52 PM

Hannie59:

In other words, grocery prices aren't rising because of ethanol. I get that; always have.

But wait! There's MORE!

Our idiotic government is waging a war on coal and subsidizing expensive electricity generation methods such as solar (which has some potential) and wind (which has no value whatsoever). By driving up the price of electricity, the cost of everything goes up; right down to the cost of frozen peas at your grocery store.

The price of electricity greatly figures into the cost of refrigeration and freezing food. As such, the government's policy of driving up electricity prices is also wreaking havoc on grocery prices.
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Daddioio
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2014 12:09:27 PM

What's your point?
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2014 7:06:39 AM

Tell us something we don't know.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2014 11:39:58 AM

FYI I googled "Bigfoot is real" and got lots of results proving that sasquatch are real.

The existence of articles drawing a connection between ethanol and food prices does not validate anything. Most of these articles rehash the old "40%" statistic, which has been corrected over and over and over and over, yet still they use it. Some are not-so-slyly connected to Big Oil or Big Food groups who profit from the controversy.

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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2014 10:07:48 AM

"Sarcasm and ridicule are not constructive in a discussion or useful to actually change someone's mind."

I quoted you.

A lot of rhetoric gets repeated as fact. However, the facts don't support the rhetoric. A bushel of corn sells for just over $4. A bushel contains 56 pounds. With a fourteen ounce box of corn flakes selling for $3, corn represents only 2% of the final product cost. Wouldn't make much difference if ther corn were free or sold for 100% more, your box of corn flakes will sell for $3, with or without ethanol production.
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GrimeyGoose
Rookie Author Texas

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2014 9:38:45 AM

I was just trying to have a discussion. I made the point of saying I made a "quick search". I didn't say anything about exhaustive research. Just listed the top results I got that all pointed the other way. None of the results spoke of corn prices coming down and all those articles pointed to rising prices. If they are truly dropping lately, great, you get points on that.

Sarcasm and ridicule are not constructive in a discussion or useful to actually change someone's mind.

Ya might think about that if you actually want to sway someone's opinion.
You've only managed to run me off from the first time I try to engage in a discussion.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2014 8:45:52 AM

"So, gee, maybe it contributed to food prices jumping as they did, doncha think?"

Corn prices have been dropping over the past year. Market price of corn was 75% higher just over a year ago. If your theory held water, grocery prices should be dropping, doncha think?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2014 5:53:47 AM

Let's see now, grocery workers get a raise once in a while, obviously because of ethanol.
Electricity and other utilities go up once in a while, obviously because of ethanol.
Taxes go up, obviously because of ethanol.
The world price of oil goes up, obviously because of ethanol.

See how ridiculous that is?
Clothes, cars, trucks, toll fees, construction costs of roads, shopping malls and homes, coffee, hospital bills, lawn mowers, apartment rents, bus fares, they all go up, and there are people that seriously believe food prices go up because of ethanol?
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2014 8:28:13 PM

I read the first one:

WashingtonExaminer
Ethanol: How government is making your food more expensive

This "commentary writer" is simply clueless. He has zero understanding of Ethanol production and its by-products. On top of it, his "common sense" does not have any sense at all. Pure garbage.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 1/8/2014 8:27:41 PM EST]
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GrimeyGoose
Rookie Author Texas

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2014 9:53:17 AM

Not really trying to argue, but a quick search of Ethanol and food prices and I find all these articles talking about how that's what's happened.
So, gee, maybe it contributed to food prices jumping as they did, doncha think?

WashingtonExaminer
Ethanol: How government is making your food more expensive

Yahoo news
U.S. Senators introduce bill to eliminate corn ethanol mandate

Bloomberg dot com
Ethanol in Gas Tanks Makes Food on Your Table Cost More

necsi dot edu-research-social-foodprices-foodforfuel
Food for fuel: The price of ethanol

Yahoo news
Livestock farmers seek pause in ethanol production

Reuters
Drought crop damage worsens, ethanol waiver urged

Thinkprogress
How U.S. Biofuel Policy Is Destroying Guatemala’s Food Supply

Nationalhogfarmer
"Even with record-large corn crops, corn prices have risen because of the new and rapidly growing demand that federal ethanol policies created. Corn usage for ethanol increased by 383% from 2005 to 2011, while feed usage fell by 25%"
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 9:24:55 AM

Nevermind math and science. The oil industry told me ethanol is making food prices higher.
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Camry05
All-Star Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 3:31:03 PM

The price of a gallon of 2% milk and the US average price of 87 octane also has a very high correlation.
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