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Author Topic: Ethanol is not a miracle fuel Back to Topics
andy92129

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San Diego

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2013 11:40:24 PM

Imagine back in the 1970s, when the Arab oil embargo sent gasoline prices skyrocketing from 25 to 50 cents per gallon. America thought we could grow our own fuel, by making alcohol from corn and potatoes and soybeans, and our cars would run on it.

That idea today has become Ethanol. It burns cleaner. It's cheaper. It's renewable. It's made in America. But as it turns out, ethanol isn't the miracle fuel it's cracked up to be.

Ethanol gets poorer gas mileage. Even though Ethanol is more expensive than gasoline, since alcohol produces less energy than petroleum gasoline when burned, gas mileage may be reduced by 10 to 30 percent, according to a article in Consumer Reports, October 2006. The E85 ethanol fuel when stacked up against pure gasoline, lost in a vehicle test (2007 Chevrolet Tahoe Flexible-Fuel Vehicle) through an array of fuel economy, acceleration, and emissions tests. The overall fuel economy on the Tahoe dropped from an already low 14 mpg overall to 10. In highway driving, gas mileage decreased from 21 to 15 mpg; in city driving, it dropped from 9 mpg to 7.

Ethanol Retains Water, so some use a fuel additive to disperse the water that ethanol causes to prevent or minimize ETHANOL related damages. There are test procedures that can be purchased in kits for this. When it doubt, test. You should never use a fuel additive that emulsifies water. You should never buy ethanol fuel that isn't clear and bright. Do not use E10 contaminated with water without a combustion-enhancing additive. Do not leave a near-empty fuel tank sitting for long periods of time.

Other practical and expensive ways you may need to deal with ethanol problems.

• Replace fuel lines, o-rings and gaskets that aren't built for ethanol.
• Inspect hose clamps and metal fittings in the fuel system for corrosion.
• Refill the fuel tank often to reduce airspace in the tank, which reduces water condensation.
• Install a fuel line water separator to eliminate water that collects in the tank.
• Use fuel additives to stop fuel from aging and oxidizing.
• Use de-emulsifying or hydrophobic additives to prevent water from homogenizing with fuel.

As stated in my Infiniti owners manual (warnings):

Gasoline containing oxygenates. Some fuel suppliers sell gasoline containing oxygenates such as ethanol, MTBE and methanol with or without advertising their presence.

Note: I only buy fuel in California, and California is a state that does not require Ethanol additive labeling. They do label the pumps to tell me "it contains chemicals known to cause cancer."

INFINITI does not recommend the use of fuels of which the oxygenate content and the fuel compatibility for your INFINITI cannot be readily determined. If in doubt, ask your service station manager.

If you use oxygenate-blend gasoline, please take the following precautions as the usage of such fuels may cause vehicle performance problems and/or fuel system damage. The fuel should be unleaded and have an octane rating no lower than that recommended for unleaded gasoline. If an oxygenate-blend, excepting a methanol blend, is used, it should contain no more than 10% oxygenate. (MTBE may, however, be added up to 15%.). If a methanol blend is used, it should contain no more than 5% methanol (methyl alcohol, wood alcohol). It should also contain a suitable amount of appropriate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors. If not properly formulated with appropriate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors, such methanol blends may cause fuel system damage and/or vehicle performance problems. At this time, sufficient data is not available to ensure that all methanol blends are suitable for use in INFINITI vehicles. If any undesirable driveability problems such as engine stalling or hard hot starting are experienced after using oxygenate-blend fuels, immediately change to a non-oxygenate fuel or a fuel with a low blend of MTBE.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 3:42:55 AM

" They don't want to move to E-85 as they will have to pay for repairs, by law."

Repairs because of what? The use of E-85 in vehicles not rated flex fuel? They they should be ashamed of themselves for selling gasoline then! Diesel cars don't tend to fare to well when filled with gasoline!
I find it interesting that anything European to do with any kind of energy usually gets trashed in these forums. Somebody thinks this one is a good thing so all of a sudden Europeans are great!

Unfortunately, your information is wrong, E-85 IS sold in Europe!
As of October 2010 there were already about 3,000 stations around Europe selling E-85.

It is very widely used in Sweden for instance, some 1,400 pumps. It is available at one chain of stations in Finland, ST1, and is labeled as RE-85 to denote it is made from biowaste. France has 300 stations with E-85, Germany 250. A number of stations are adopting E-85 in the Netherlands. Switzerland has more than 50 stations with E-85. Italy and Spain have limited availability at this time.

It costs more per kilometre to drive on E85 in Italy, UK and the Netherlands, due to taxes, but the taxes favour E85 in Sweden, Germany, Spain, Austria, Switzerland and France.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 9:11:10 PM

"I found it interesting that they only allow E-95 as max. Remember most use diesel and more have converted to natural gas (very high numbers in NL).

When I inquired about this low % E mix, ......."

What are you talking about? E95 or 95% ethanol is physically about as high an ethanol concentration possible.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 7:16:20 AM

I just returned on a Europe trip and discussed this ethanol issue with several OEM and regulatory reps.

I found it interesting that they only allow E-95 as max. Remember most use diesel and more have converted to natural gas (very high numbers in NL).

When I inquired about this low % E mix, they responded that many older cars still cannot handle the higher mixes. Now note this next point. They don't want to move to E-85 as they will have to pay for repairs, by law.

So if we do the same here in the US, I'm sure you would get more people to switch. But just pony up the guarantee and this banter will end.

Obama wouldn't steer us wrong and use the EPA as his political toy, would he?
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2013 8:32:16 AM

Seems that with all this extra corn being produced on land that was unused, all the shipping of the corn, the ethanol plant construction, ethanol production, distribution, sales, all the car repairs due to limitless failures of virtually all vehicle components, production and handling of all the replacement parts, the endless recycling of the damaged parts, the production, sales, distribution, maintenance, and replacement parts for farm machinery.......well, you get the point.........there is nothing but employment created by ethanol. Half the country must be directly or indirectly employed in the support of this evil product.

It can't be shut down now or there will be a major recession resulting in years of fruitless recovery.
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Charly25k
Rookie Author New Mexico

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2013 7:19:50 AM

The general public is not educated about E85.
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RS101
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2013 8:02:10 PM

Or perhaps more jobs would be created.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 11:11:16 AM

"I don't like ethanaol but if we ban it a lot of jobs will be lost"

You don't have to ban ethanol, just get rid of the Federal mandate that forces you to use it whether or not you wish...
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46chief
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 10:18:05 AM

I don't like ethanaol but if we ban it a lot of jobs will be lost.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 9:49:52 AM

"Damn, this morality stuff sure inflicts think pain on your brain."

I bet the food vs fuel folk wear cotton cloths without thinking about the source of the fabric.
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rick_evans
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 6:17:13 AM

"Its quite immoral, to use land that normally would produce crops for people to consume, ..."

That makes Valentine's Day and Mother's day, where millions of flowers are sent the most immoral days of the year.

But wait! A poor farmer who grows flowers for export, which fetch better prices than western subsidized grains, can afford to feed her family AND pay her kids school fees.

Damn, this morality stuff sure inflicts think pain on your brain.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 3:25:50 AM

"More and More People are now using Ethanol Free Fuels!"
"We the consumers hold the Power!"

Yay!!! Up with OPEC!!!!
Boo!!! Down with local products!!!!
Yay!!! Up with Big Oil!!!
Boo!!! Down with farmers!!!
Yay!!! Up with the status Quo!!!
Boo!!! Down with research and innovation!!!

Brought to you by your local chapter of feedastarvingsaudishiek.com
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 3:13:43 AM

"More and More People are now using Ethanol Free Fuels! I am seeing more and more Gas Stations Stations opening up with 87 and 89 Octane Ethanol Free Fuels! "

Actually we need more ethanol fuels. In fact we need it at every station. We do not need gasoline with its cancer causing agents of benzene, toluene, and xylene.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2013 3:11:27 AM

"But oil is rarely tanked from one location to another. Much cheaper and safer to pipe oil from there to here. Thats why there is such a cry to build the XL pipeline. Ethanol can't be shipped in existing pipelines with petroleum products because it scours all the crud and water in the pipes which is otherwise doing no harm."

Some folks just do not have a clue.
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zippy3231
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 10:00:21 PM

More and More People are now using Ethanol Free Fuels! I am seeing more and more Gas Stations Stations opening up with 87 and 89 Octane Ethanol Free Fuels!

If we want more Ethanol Free Gas Stations we need to purchase and promote this product and the stations that sell this Fuel! We the consumers hold the Power! The Profit! The Market will follow the Profit!
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 5:53:00 PM

"But oil is rarely tanked from one location to another."

Actually, oil by rail is a quickly growing business throughout Canada and the US, and spills and accidents are increasing.
The longer the decision of pipelines is put off, the more rail shipments there will be, and, since rail goes a lot of places pipelines don't, there will be rail shipments for a long while yet.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 2:25:30 PM

"Read closer. the O.P. said "optimized" not "tolerate". Much higher compression ratios are required to optimize an engine for E85. But then higher combustion pressures will alter the chemistry and emissions much the same as the problem with diesel. Higher temperatures and pressures produce more NOx."

There's nothing magic abut higher relative compression ratios. The higher compression ratio increases pressure to increase the rate at which the fuel burns. That's critical when turning 10,000 rpm. While a higher compression ratio is beneficial at very high rpm, the same absolute compression can be obtained through timing and fuel mixture.

What this means in practical terms is the the same pressure at top dead center can be obtained in a 10:1 engine as a 12:1 engine at highway speeds by simply advancing the timing in the lower compression engine.

The emissions part is true. Regardless, EGT in many flex fuel vehicles is higher when running on ethanol than when running gasoline. It's already being done.

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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 2:04:48 PM

>> As you pointed out the significant transportation energy cost. Railroading ethanol from the Mid West is about as stupid as it gets.

> Don't you think you should consider the amount of energy cost it takes to move gasoline in a rail car, or pipeline, or oil tanker. On the surface, it doesn't seem too efficient to move crude oil 12,000 miles in a tanker from the mideast to the US.

But oil is rarely tanked from one location to another. Much cheaper and safer to pipe oil from there to here. Thats why there is such a cry to build the XL pipeline. Ethanol can't be shipped in existing pipelines with petroleum products because it scours all the crud and water in the pipes which is otherwise doing no harm.
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2013 1:59:38 PM

> > Another reason Ethanol is not a miracle fuel is the full range of modifications required to make sure that the engine can be optimized for high ethanol fuel use."

> What are you talking about? The changes to run on E85 are minor changes, predominantly programming. Many US cars are now only offered with flex fuel engines.

Read closer. the O.P. said "optimized" not "tolerate". Much higher compression ratios are required to optimize an engine for E85. But then higher combustion pressures will alter the chemistry and emissions much the same as the problem with diesel. Higher temperatures and pressures produce more NOx.

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. -- R. A. Heinlein.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 3:49:29 PM

"Another reason Ethanol is not a miracle fuel is the full range of modifications required to make sure that the engine can be optimized for high ethanol fuel use."

What are you talking about? The changes to run on E85 are minor changes, predominantly programming. Many US cars are now only offered with flex fuel engines.

When I purchased my new 2002 eleven years ago, the option for the engine was sticker priced at roughly $200. Just a couple years later the engine was only offered as a flex fuel.
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Camry05
All-Star Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 3:37:08 PM

Another reason Ethanol is not a miracle fuel is the full range of modifications required to make sure that the engine can be optimized for high ethanol fuel use. Most manufacturers are not ready to make all the modifications, especially the expensive ones.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 9:06:57 AM

"However, Beets are a very efficient producer of sugar, much more efficient than corn. It just takes lots of sunlight and water and CO2. As does corn."

Markets work. If it were more profitable to produce ethanol from beets, the ethanol plants would be concentrated in the beet-belt, instead of the corn-belt.

"As you pointed out the significant transportation energy cost. Railroading ethanol from the Mid West is about as stupid as it gets."

Don't you think you should consider the amount of energy cost it takes to move gasoline in a rail car, or pipeline, or oil tanker. On the surface, it doesn't seem too efficient to move crude oil 12,000 miles in a tanker from the mideast to the US.

"The main point of the article was the risk a sustained draught will have on a corn economy. And the debate between what is more important, food or energy. Food will lose."

You know, this objection surfaced in 1979, when oil distributors started selling ethanol on a wider scale. The flaw in the food for fuel logic is that the US is a surplus producer of grain, especially corn.

During the 1974 oil embargo, corn sold for $3.25 a bushel. Had corn kept up with the rate of inflation, it would be selling for $17 a bushel . But it doesn't. The market price, this morning, is between $4.08 and $4.30. Almost nothing purchased in 1974 has remained flat in price. The reason is US farmers produce a surplus of grain. Surplus means more is produced than can be sold.





[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 11/23/2013 9:08:13 AM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 4:16:33 AM

Producing from corn also produces distillers grains and corn oil.

Beets cannot be stockpiled in a grain bin. They have to be used right away in order to take care of the sugar content.

Right now, it is looking like algae my have the best potential with around 8000 gallons per acre.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 2:11:13 AM

borsht claims "Beets are a very efficient producer of sugar, much more efficient than corn."

But is it more cost effective to produce ethanol from beets instead of corn. That's the ultimate question. Producing from corn also produces distillers grains. How about beets?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 12:39:18 AM

Hello SoylentGrain ,
I have consistently appreciated your comments and respect for expression of differing views. Which is in stark contrast to other writers on this board that have made very bad personal written attacks against others and my person.
I've been called an idiot, a moron and many other untrue descriptors.

This has not been a friendly board for dialog between people with views unfavorable to massive growth of corn ethanol production.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2013 12:29:10 AM

Like I said I don't think ethanol from anything is the right fuel for cars.
However, Beets are a very efficient producer of sugar, much more efficient than corn. It just takes lots of sunlight and water and CO2. As does corn. But you get considerably more sugar per acre from beets. Especially in California. They are also much more efficient is recovering water from the soil.
As you pointed out the significant transportation energy cost. Railroading ethanol from the Mid West is about as stupid as it gets. We have the water and sun light and land. But the tree huggers have shut the water off and have killed the beet industry. They are killing the almond industry. The san Joaquin valley is becoming an area with hundreds of miles of dead nut trees because of the mandate to stop irrigating for the sake of the fingerling fish in the delta.

The main point of the article was the risk a sustained draught will have on a corn economy. And the debate between what is more important, food or energy. Food will lose.
Also, The EPA mandate for ethanol use is measured in gallons not percentage.
Thus as cars get more efficient, and people drive less. The percent alcohol use has to increase. Again illustrating the mandate nonsense.We have lots of off shore oil too. So use your ethanol in the mid west but stop the mandating use of it in California.
Economics by fiat is not the best economics.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2013 1:59:48 PM

Did you read your article, borsht?

From your article: "When you pay $1 for groceries at the supermarket—out of that $1 only about 12-14 cents goes to the farmers that produced the commodities that went into the foods that you buy. About 35 cents goes to pay for energy to make, transport, process, and preserve the products. If the price of oil goes up—so will the price of the food you buy—-and about 3X faster than it will if the price of the base commodities increases. ALL foods—not just some.

We need to make more ethanol, not less ethanol."

However, an agronomist, the author is not. As far as growing sugar cane in the US, perhaps a few thousand years of global warming will produce a climate suitable for vast regions of sugar cane growth. Until then, cane is going to be tough to grow in the US.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2013 10:58:04 AM

Ethanol is not the best alternative fuel. Get one similar to gasoline.
such as butanol.
Also, corn ethanol is troublesome from a draught and food viewpoint.
William Pentland in Forbes points out some of the concerns with corn ethanol.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2012/07/28/the-coming-food-crisis-blame-ethanol/2/
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2013 9:26:58 AM

What's a sparkplug?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2013 8:54:33 AM

"There are no intelligent posts on here, regarding Ethanol"

Thank you for your contribution, robster.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 9:50:13 PM

Robster, newbie goodwill is now totally gone.
You have made uninformed insults without realizing how they actually reflect upon yourself.
I am now going to do something useful, and post some gas prices, after all, that is the raison d'etre for the site. You seem to have missed that in your zeal to put other members down.

PLONK! (hint: not the cheap wine)

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 11/21/2013 9:50:21 PM EST]
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TheRobster666
Rookie Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 7:48:29 PM

There are no intelligent posts on here, regarding Ethanol, Mr. 23,000 posts because I have no life. The only thing increasing fuel economy these days are more efficient engines as well as 6-8 speed transmissions. You are a lemming, swallowing all the ETHANOL PROPAGANDA, from a government that is unethical and that is looking to fill the pockets of people who are tied to a government campaign. Ethanol does not increase fuel economy. Then again, maybe you claim to also see Santa Claus every year...

You probably can't even change your own spark plugs or oil either...

[Edited by: TheRobster666 at 11/21/2013 7:47:54 PM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 3:44:17 AM

Ethanol may not be perfect, but it is sure better than gasoline and oil.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 11:59:41 PM

"ethanol nutswingers"
"ignorant, brainwashed people"

If you had lurked in the forums for a while, you would have seen hundreds of intelligent posts in numerous threads with data and real-world experiences, and could have actually participated in what we in the real world like to call discussion.

From the forum guidelines:
2. Feel free to attack ideas but please do not attack other posters. This forum is designed to be a discussion and exchange of ideas, so please keep in mind that other people’s ideas may well be different than your own. Please keep it civil.
9. GasBuddy is a family website. Please, no swearing, or vulgar language of any kind.

You come in with no idea what has been discussed in the past and immediately start tossing names, you are using up your newbie goodwill pretty quickly, and seriously resemble an OPEC supporter.

From your other posts:
"Let me lead you to the gas chamber over here" - Seriously, dude? In terrible taste.
"Ethanol is bullshit" - unacceptable language in our forums.

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TheRobster666
Rookie Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 8:42:37 PM

Wow I didn't realize how many ignorant, brainwashed people are signed up on here defending ethanol fuel.
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RockShagwell
Sophomore Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 10:18:16 AM

There should be more totally ethanol free gas stations available
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 9:58:06 AM

"Its quite immoral, to use land that normally would produce crops for people to consume..."The amount of corn available for food/feed is the same/higher than it was 20 years ago. This data is public and easy to find.

And if there's a moral issue with our current land-use policies, we should consider that 97% of corn grown in the U.S. is fed to animals at a huge energy loss. For example, when you feed corn to a cow and then eat the cow, there's an 83% caloric loss. If we're starving, we should be eating the corn to grab 100% of those calories. You're basically saying that our cars are not worthy of corn, but our luxurious appetite for beef, is.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 9:41:35 AM

" The ethanol industry is one built on a scam and supported by extremely self righteous people who think they are saving the earth and who are after a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Their beliefs are not actually based on any real knowledge of how greater fuel economy is being achieved in the automotive industry. LOL@ the ethanol nutswingers."

Hey, your anti-ethanol talking points came right off of the Sierra Club website. Who's the nutswinger?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 7:23:45 AM

"Its quite immoral, to use land that normally would produce crops for people to consume"

Wow, how many millions of people are living in houses built on what should be prime farm land? Cities should be built on marginal land, rocky land, but look at all the farm land surrounding cities that is swallowed up by new developments every single year.
Where was your outrage this year at that? Last year? 10 years ago? 50 years ago?
If you think it is immoral to make renewable fuels out of stuff grown on the land, when we have a surplus of crops that is exported every year, I assume you think those that clear farm-land for home building, especially on big lots, should be going straight to Hades!
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TheRobster666
Rookie Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2013 9:01:44 PM

Its quite immoral, to use land that normally would produce crops for people to consume, to in turn create a 'fuel' that doesn't increase fuel economy at all. And this idea that ethanol concentrated fuels produce greater fuel economy in vehicles designed for that type of consumption, is a great myth as well. Now we're getting into aspects of tuning and more complex automotive technology that makes ethanol concentrated fuels to appear that they are producing greater mpg. Engine technology is superior today and many vehicles are now being equipped with 6-8 speed transmissions and are using technology that shuts down several of the cylinders while driving. The ethanol industry is one built on a scam and supported by extremely self righteous people who think they are saving the earth and who are after a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Their beliefs are not actually based on any real knowledge of how greater fuel economy is being achieved in the automotive industry. LOL@ the ethanol nutswingers.



[Edited by: TheRobster666 at 11/19/2013 9:01:53 PM EST]
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zippy3231
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2013 5:09:56 AM

I wish the site would show where one can purchase Ethanol Free Stations
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2013 3:04:11 AM

"Not only the harm done to engines not designed for it. But also the environmental cost associated with its production."

This is all big oil propaganda. Ethanol may not be perfect, but it is sure better than gasoline and oil.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 2:22:30 PM

ggg452, Google "petroleum genocide", then get back to us on how you feel about petroleum.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 2:07:47 PM

How is use of ethanol immoral?
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ggg452
Champion Author Manitoba

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 1:28:43 PM

I still feel there use of ethanol is immoral...
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 12:14:53 PM

Initially the ethanol story seemed to make some sense.
But the truth seems to have been hiddin in the greed of those who profit from etaanol.
I think the American people are showing wisdom in their dislike for the chenical, ethanol.

Not only the harm done to engines not designed for it. But also the environmental cost associated with its production.

An interesting article recently appeared in an Iowa news paper about the adverse environmental cost.
http://timesrepublican.com/page/content.detail/id/565608/ETHANOL-S-IMPACT.html
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 11:26:24 AM

Wow, you certainly have alot to say, none of which is correct. But I don't blame you for being totally misinformed because you live in an area where everyone is fake and living a lie with all the face lifts and botox.

[Edited by: forresj at 11/18/2013 11:31:45 AM EST]
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zippy3231
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:1,406
Points:672,460
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 1:47:56 PM

I am trying ethanol free gas to see if I get better gas mileage!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

Posts:22,431
Points:3,166,990
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 3:54:54 AM

You can always tell when a rookie comes in here. Most of the time they know little or nothing.

I could address every single aspect of his post, but I will not as it has been done a many times before.

No one has ever said that ethanol is perfect, but it is a lot better than that cancer causing pollutant you call gasoline.

And by the way properly tuned engines get very good mileage with ethanol fuels.

By the way, do you know why MTBE was banned? Because it is a carcinogen that comminates ground water.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

Posts:25,136
Points:3,821,930
Joined:Oct 2002
Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 12:39:48 AM

By the way, gasoline is not a miracle fuel either. At some point in time we HAVE to wean ourselves away from it. Ethanol is not only not a miracle fuel, it is not the solution. However, it is an important step along the way. It will someday give way to another alternative, when the volume and the costs for the next step will come together.
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TomB2
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:1,846
Points:313,910
Joined:Jul 2013
Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 2:41:20 PM

E-10 is OK, but I'd rather use it when I want and not all the time. My preference would be to use it in severe cold weather rather than buying HEET gas line antifreeze which is essentially just methanol and use it for about a week before an emissions test. I used it some back in the late '70s when it was just called gasohol and thought it was OK then too, but I didn't use it all the time. Small engine shops love it, tons of business is created by ethanol in the gas gumming up carburetors and fuel systems.
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