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Author Topic: David VS Goliath... So you're rooting for Goliath? Back to Topics
darwinfinch

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Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2013 9:53:18 AM

Remember when David VS Goliath was a story about the underdog, the little guy, the weak but wise?

It seems that our new American view is that we should all support Goliath. The strong and stubborn giant, the one with all the power. The aggressor and the status quo.

I am not sure when this changed but it definitely shows up in the debates about biofuel vs fossil fuel. Why there are so many supporters of Big Oil is a mystery to me. In the 50s-80s there were a lot of science fiction movies/books that dreamed of being able to develop fuel from alternative sources and get the oil monkey off our back. In BACK TO THE FUTURE, Doc threw a banana peel and a beer can in his tank and everyone loved it.

Now that we are finally coming around on that dream, suddenly a huge portion of the population acts like crude oil is our utopia.

I don't get it. Do you LIKE oil spills? Do you LIKE breathing in cruddy air? Do you LIKE paying more for your fuel?

I really hope this is just the success of Big Oil's marketing campaigns, not a real reflection of American spirit.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 4:43:52 PM

"this is a subsidy pure and simple , it's a hidden tax on all of us to redirect funds from our pockets to ethanol producers and corn farmers!!!."

And eliminating ethanol would be a hidden tax, a drain on the US economy, and downward pressure on the dollar as funds are redirected to Middle East sheiks so they can upgrade their diamond-encrusted Mercedes to diamond-encrusted Bentleys.
Remember, the US is STILL a net importer of oil! And it will be for some time yet. The US has greatly increased production of oil, true, but it is also still a huge oil consumer.
I suppose it is better to support the economies of the Middle East, than the economies of people at home? And, of course, at the same time, support Big Oil in their campaign to continue, even strengthen, a stranglehold on the automotive fuel industry?



[Edited by: rumbleseat at 11/16/2013 4:46:06 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 1:48:40 PM

CactusBobs wrote: "the renewable fuels act , mandates we (the public) buy Ethanol !
this is a subsidy pure and simple , it's a hidden tax on all of us to redirect funds from our pockets to ethanol producers and corn farmers!!!."

Wrong, what a surprise. You only prove one thing, ignorance is bliss.
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SoylentGrain
All-Star Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 6:39:40 PM

"When "alternative" fuels are as good as fossil fuels and come down in price, I'll think about it a little more. Till then, I'll use gasoline and power from coal and nuclear plants. "

We've paid as low as $2.29 a gallon for E85 this past month. Regular unleaded in Illinois is $3.60. How much lower do you need the price of ethanol to go?

"the renewable fuels act , mandates we (the public) buy Ethanol !
this is a subsidy pure and simple , it's a hidden tax on all of us to redirect funds from our pockets to ethanol producers and corn farmers!!!."

You prefer MTBE and a gasoline oligopoly? It doesn't mandate the public buy anything. The law, through taxation, coerces distributors to sell a certain amount of fuel. I'm not for the tax ie dubw. But, it's not the situation you portray.

" I work on cars , so i should go to congress and have a law passed that all cars must be inspected once a year ."

Doesn't EPA mandate that already in many areas? You'll have to come up with something else to lobby for.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 6:01:34 PM

Okay, well the subsidies ended 2 years ago. None of your tax money is subsidizing ethanol

hogwash !!!!

the renewable fuels act , mandates we (the public) buy Ethanol !
this is a subsidy pure and simple , it's a hidden tax on all of us to redirect funds from our pockets to ethanol producers and corn farmers!!!. I work on cars , so i should go to congress and have a law passed that all cars must be inspected once a year . call is something that sounds good and makes people feel good . but all it really does is give me endless work and make people spend money weather they like it or not

shameful use of government !!!!!


[Edited by: CactusBobs at 11/15/2013 6:01:32 PM EST]
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TomB2
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 2:25:52 PM

When "alternative" fuels are as good as fossil fuels and come down in price, I'll think about it a little more. Till then, I'll use gasoline and power from coal and nuclear plants.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 11:10:08 AM

"When "alternative" fuels can stand on their own and be competitive without subsidies (my tax dollars) I will be more than happy to support them."

Okay, well the subsidies ended 2 years ago. None of your tax money is subsidizing ethanol. Meanwhile, a big chunk of your taxes subsidize fossil fuel. Ethanol companies continue to fight for fair access to the market.

You said you'd be happy to support; will you?
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SoylentGrain
All-Star Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 10:51:56 AM

"When "alternative" fuels can stand on their own and be competitive without subsidies (my tax dollars) I will be more than happy to support them."

What are you talking about? Exactly what alternate fuel subsidy comes from your "tax dollars?"
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51stovi
All-Star Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 10:21:29 AM

When "alternative" fuels can stand on their own and be competitive without subsidies (my tax dollars) I will be more than happy to support them. It also appears we still have significant oil reserves in the USA and if our government would allow more drilling and the building of more refineries, the price of gas would drop.
Get the government out of the way and let the free market take its course on which fuel we will use.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2013 4:08:04 PM

There is only 2 places sugar cane will grow in the US.
Hawaii and a few parts of florida.
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SoylentGrain
All-Star Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 12:52:25 PM

"I'm torn. As much as I like using alternative fuels, I don't think we should be using a food source for part of our fuel"

The US is a surplus producer of grain, especially corn. That means, each year, US farmers produce more than we consume. If demand increases, farmers, simply, increase production.

"I wish we could grow as much sugarcane here as they do in Brazil. "

Why? An acre planted in sugar cane produces about 600 gallons of ethanol every 12 to 14 months. An acre planted in corn (in the corn-belt) produces 600 gallons of ethanol PLUS two tons of animal feed. Don't you think, if it were economically feasible, the cane industry would have taken off to provide the substrate for ethanol production? Or is there some conspiracy I'm unaware of?

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photog72
Rookie Author Houston

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Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 12:14:43 PM

I'm torn. As much as I like using alternative fuels, I don't think we should be using a food source for part of our fuel. I wish we could grow as much sugarcane here as they do in Brazil. That would help ween us away from using corn for our fuel.
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CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 12:53:24 PM

Can i pick "C" ?

For none of the above !

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SoylentGrain
All-Star Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 9:32:48 AM

It's caveman logic. Anything that's different, is a threat. So, avoid it, run away, or kill it. It's a genetic imprint from thousands of years ago. Almost every animal has it.

While this mentality makes it more difficult to launch a new product, it also makes "thinking ouside the box" almost impossible in a large corporation or organization. And that is a benefit to the entapeneaur. The big guy is slow to respond to a change in the market.

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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 8:42:36 AM

darwinfinch - great question. I saw this phenomenon show up in elections when people started voting for the most popular candidate because they 'didn't want to waste their vote'.

Not sure the psychology but maybe picking the wrong horse is a sign of personal failure.

This characteristic is now showing up all over the place with folks voting for unsustainable, politically correct, and most popular options only to run with the pack. Somehow an excellent training program has made us mass consumers of the most popular to impress the greater mass with our wisdom.

Then again, betting on pure losers isn't a wise choice either, but independence of thought is slipping away when faced with well funded Goliaths, like Big Oil, Global Warming, and other voodoo nonsense.

You've pointed this out yourself only to be slammed for your oddball concepts but you still flaunt your David thinking. Hats off to you, brother.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 3:51:24 AM

You are spot on.
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