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rose8420

Rookie Author
Alabama

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Message Posted: Oct 18, 2013 10:33:27 PM

ask our representative to do away with the use of ethonal as it is bad for the hoses and the economy. instead of crops to eat we plant crops to run our vehicles how mixed up is that.
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Michael29644
Champion Author Greenville

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Message Posted: Oct 29, 2013 9:56:03 PM

Rose8420,

Please ask the mods to move this discussion to the All Things Ethanol forum where it belongs. This is not a boycott issue.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2013 4:42:40 PM

There are no credible or current studies showing an energy return of .7.
The only one that had a figure like that was one that actually expected us to believe the sunshine was an energy cost.

Here are the ethanol-only energy returns (ethanol output/total energy input) from the raw data in the USDA reports:
2002 – 1.09
2004 – 1.06
2010 – 1.42
Here are the ethanol plus byproduct energy returns (ethanol plus byproduct output/total energy input):
2002 – 1.27
2004 – 1.26
2010 – 1.69
Here are the ratios from utilizing the USDA’s 2002 methodology (subtracting byproducts from the inputs) across all three reports:
2002 – 1.34
2004 – 1.32
2010 – 1.93
Finally, the ratios that the USDA highlighted and reported across all three reports:
2002 – 1.34
2004 – 1.67
2010 – 2.34
Source: The EROEI of Ethanol

In fact, it’s oil that has a negative EROEI. Because oil is both the raw material and the energy source for production of gasoline, it comes out to about 20% negative. That’s just common sense; some of the oil is itself used up in the process of refining and delivering it.
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catfish99
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2013 10:26:11 AM

Well, that is not exactly true, rumbleseat. 1.3 was the result of a single study (the "national geographic study" cited by Wikipedia.) Studies show a range varying between .7-1.5 on energy return, and both sides cite the numbers they prefer.
None of these studies consider the economic effect of reducing food supply to divert production into energy use, which is by far the more harmful effect of requiring the blending into gasoline.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2013 6:37:30 AM

"Corn is a scam for use as a fuel source. Requiring much more energy input than can be derived as fuel."

That was first disproved in a study in the 1990s, and again in several studies since.
The energy return on corn ethanol is 1.3.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2013 11:04:37 PM

rose8420:

Who or what are we supposed to be boycotting?

If we "ask our representative..." that's not boycotting the representative.
Are we supposed to boycott ethanol?

As for "instead of crops to eat we plant crops to run our vehicles how mixed up is that", if there's food to eat, how is this a problem? Or are you saying that there's no food because crops are being used to run vehicles?

That said, as I've recently driven quite a bit in Alabama, thanks to you and your fellow Gas Buddy members for posting gas prices; it's helped me be a more knowledgeable shopper.
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MIL7474
Rookie Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2013 10:29:51 PM

Bad for hoses may have been an issue in the 80's, my thought is that is a myth now. Brazil has been using 100 percent ethanol for many yrs. They use the left overs from sugar cane for the bulk of the bio-mas, not corn. Corn is a scam for use as a fuel source. Requiring much more energy input than can be derived as fuel.
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maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2013 6:54:21 PM

As mixed up as some rant about bad hoses in the Boycott category.

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