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Author Topic: Ethanol provides less knock, more power and better performance video Back to Topics
gamechanger2011

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2013 12:45:23 PM

Ethanol provides less knock, more power and better performance vide
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2013 1:54:21 AM

The video isn't from Washington.
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 9:45:01 PM

Another lie by our people in Washington to go along with the others they tell us.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 2:26:54 PM

"Now you can add the lack of reading comprehension to your failure list. Well done."

Thank you. I did fail to have a lack of reading comprehension, I'm glad you noticed.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 2:02:16 PM

HotRod10 wrote: "Does not disprove litesong's hard-number results. You can throw out that "you failed" line all you want, but unlike you krzysiek, the facts don't lie."

Now you can add the lack of reading comprehension to your failure list. Well done.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 9/26/2013 2:03:34 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 1:48:18 PM

"Two failures do not make one right."

Well, one statement of: "I don't see a measurable difference...I might see a 5% difference with E85. It's just plain too close to measure." from someone who drives "Chevrolet Tahoe FFVs...with an ethanol sensor. They also programmed the car to burn ethanol at a very aggressive temperature."

And another of: "I blend as much ethanol as I can in my non-FFVs and have seen no significant change in mileage at any ethanol blend."

Does not disprove litesong's hard-number results. You can throw out that "you failed" line all you want, but unlike you krzysiek, the facts don't lie.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 1:32:33 PM

HotRod10 wrote: "Well, at least I'm not the only one who gets these stupid statements claiming that because krzysiek isn't convinced that I somehow "failed". Sorry krzysiek, just because you won't accept reality doesn't make the person presenting the facts a failure."

Two failures do not make one right.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 9/26/2013 1:33:11 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 1:04:19 PM

"And the idiotic statements by big oil shills continue, even after their wild claims got debunked. You failed again."

Well, at least I'm not the only one who gets these stupid statements claiming that because krzysiek isn't convinced that I somehow "failed". Sorry krzysiek, just because you won't accept reality doesn't make the person presenting the facts a failure.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 17, 2013 2:42:36 PM

Chazzer, how much experience do you have with ethanol? You admit in another topic that they don't carry E85 in your area.
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Chazzer
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Sep 17, 2013 1:00:44 PM

That's not my experience!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2013 3:27:42 AM

"he forgot to mention it phase separates and it costs more in the long run, because it destroys the engine"

You have got to be kidding. Not a shred of truth in that statement.
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CORNHICK
All-Star Author Omaha

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 9:52:06 PM

he forgot to mention it phase separates and it costs more in the long run, because it destroys the engine
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CORNHICK
All-Star Author Omaha

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 9:51:28 PM

dudes old I bet he has no clue what he is talking about he prob has Alzheimers
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WilW
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 10:22:13 AM

Bullcrap.
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ggg452
Champion Author Manitoba

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 10:51:23 AM

More examples of how your perspective shades your stand on ethanol.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 9:40:30 AM

Darwin Finch wrote: "The amount of money in my pocket has gone up with Ethanol."
So has mine. I blend as much ethanol as I can in my non-FFVs and have seen no significant change in mileage at any ethanol blend.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 9:11:30 AM

litesong wrote: "Beyond the money, 100% gasoline causes & caused my reported 4 vehicles to run smoother, quieter, with a bit extra low rpm torque, & with excellent range extension. My evidence clearly shows that gasoline engines run best when using 100% gasoline. It is only ethanol shills who continue to incorrectly state that gasoline engines designed & built to run on 100% gasoline, run as efficiently with 10% ethanol blends."

And the idiotic statements by big oil shills continue, even after their wild claims got debunked. You failed again.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 2:49:51 AM

Ethanol shill???? Why thank you. Sure better than being an oil shill.

You need to Clean up your act.

[Edited by: goldseeker at 9/4/2013 2:52:06 AM EST]
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litesong
Rookie Author Gary

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 1:56:13 AM

Darwin Finch wrote:
The amount of money in my pocket has gone up with Ethanol.
//////////
litesong wrote:
My normal excellent & cheery source for 100% gasoline(ethanol-free), initially was only a nickel more than the cheapest 10% ethanol blends. As previously reported, my 100% gasoline mpg increases of 8%, 7%, & 5% meant that I was saving money with 100% gasoline. Ever since the Anacortes, WA refinery fire tho, the price difference has widened to 25 to 30 cents, which means a lot, since our western Washington gas prices are high. But my cost per mile, is still a trace better using 100% gasoline. As reported for my new 2013 Elantra, using 100% gasoline exclusively, I average 39+mpg, soaring way above the large majority of reports for their Elantras.

Beyond the money, 100% gasoline causes & caused my reported 4 vehicles to run smoother, quieter, with a bit extra low rpm torque, & with excellent range extension. My evidence clearly shows that gasoline engines run best when using 100% gasoline. It is only ethanol shills who continue to incorrectly state that gasoline engines designed & built to run on 100% gasoline, run as efficiently with 10% ethanol blends.
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litesong
Rookie Author Gary

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 1:20:37 AM

To clarify my previous post:
"I have a decade of mpg records comparing 100% gasoline(ethanol-free) to 10% ethanol blends, that show 8%, 7%, & 5% increases in mpg, in favor of 100% gasoline."

These records were compiled for 3 vehicles, when switched to 100% gasoline, gave mpg increases of 8%, 7%, & 5%.
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litesong
Rookie Author Gary

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2013 12:50:47 AM

I have a decade of mpg records comparing 100% gasoline(ethanol-free) to 10% ethanol blends, that show 8%, 7%, & 5% increases in mpg, in favor of 100% gasoline. Another report with 115,000 miles of comparisons, shows 100% gasoline gaining 10% mpg over 10% ethanol blends. Other reports also, show 10% mpg advantages using 100% gasoline over 10% ethanol blend. Returning to my engines, they run smoother, quieter & with a trace extra low rpm torque, such that hills are ascended with less down shifting. I was going to switch one of my cars to fuel injection to smooth its slightly rough running. With the use of 100% gasoline, the car no longer needs fuel injection. Using 100% gasoline, my new 2013 non-diesel, non-turbo, non-hybrid Elantra, bad-mouthed by leadfooted drivers, as having poor mpg, is presently averaging 39+mpg, with 15% city driving & all tanks used over periods from 4 to 7+ days.

Lower compression ratio gasoline engines are designed & built to efficiently burn 100% gasoline. Ethanol engines are designed & built to efficiently burn 100% ethanol, like higher compression ratio INDY cars. None of this is rocket science. But it is good 100% gasoline engine science.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2013 10:22:18 AM

"How is posting a couple MSDS sheets for model cement Ethanol Industry Propaganda?"

Perhaps because model cement MSDS sheets have nothing to do with ethanol, or gasoline's compatibility with fuel line components, but the ethanol shills here are falsely insinuating there is a relationship?

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 9/3/2013 10:22:57 AM EST]
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skye1212
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2013 10:04:31 AM

If I'm going to watch a good fictional movie, I'll watch Jaws or Star Trek instead.
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 12:37:41 PM

How is posting a couple MSDS sheets for model cement Ethanol Industry Propaganda?
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 10:53:00 AM

Isn't it fun to be able to exchange different opinions and ideas peaceably?
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 10:29:45 AM

skye1212 wrote: "Industry propaganda from the corn/ethanol folks."

Please explain.
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skye1212
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 10:21:57 AM

Industry propaganda from the corn/ethanol folks.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 9:38:48 AM

Once again, Shockjock1961 is having reading comprehension issues.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 9:21:43 AM

"Does anybody else find it funny that Ethanol gets blames for destroying rubber and plastic fuel system components, yet when I start looking at the MSDS for Model Cements intended for melting styrene plastic pieces together, all use those chemicals in gas that Krzysiek ck listed are listed on the MSDS's I found"

Your mistake... Assuming that styrenes are used in gas tanks and lines, they are not. Therefore your post is irrelevant...
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2013 12:12:30 AM

"Explain how is gasoline containing about 150 different chemicals, including benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene, more stable that ethanol. Do you even have a slightest clue?"

Does anybody else find it funny that Ethanol gets blames for destroying rubber and plastic fuel system components, yet when I start looking at the MSDS for Model Cements intended for melting styrene plastic pieces together, all use those chemicals in gas that Krzysiek ck listed are listed on the MSDS's I found.

benzene, ethylbenzene and xylene are found in here,
http://www.testors.com/product/136942/8872C/_/Liquid_Cement_For_Plastic

and here,
http://www.testors.com/product/136635/3507AT/_/Liquid_Cement_1_Oz.

http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0088720.050511.pdf

Toluene is found here,
http://www.testors.com/product/136635/3501X/_/Cement_For_Plastics_58oz

http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0035000.032812.pdf

Looks like it will take some copy pasting to bring up those links, sorry.


[Edited by: WhiskeyBurner at 8/28/2013 12:15:01 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2013 8:32:20 AM

skye1212 wrote: "And your gas is much less stable."

Explain how is gasoline containing about 150 different chemicals, including benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene, more stable that ethanol. Do you even have a slightest clue?
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skye1212
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2013 8:28:10 AM

It's a fact you get less mileage with ethanol. And your gas is much less stable.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 1:50:18 PM

The amount of money in my pocket has gone up with Ethanol.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 1:16:37 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "As has mine..."

Since you have always whined about the lack of choices, how exactly are you doing your testing? A single gas tank test will not give you the proper numbers. Are you simply making the stuff up?

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 8/26/2013 1:18:30 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 11:25:53 AM

"My mpg have gone down with Ethanol!"

As has mine...
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 11:04:33 AM

My mpg have gone down with Ethanol!
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 9:44:47 AM

How is gasoline in E85 a good thing? If people want gas in their ethanol, then they would buy it. The fact that the government has had to resort to forcing people to buy gasoline laced ethanol proves that gasoline is a failure...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 9:19:32 AM

"When the oil companies want to do away with the RFS ( renewable fuel standard) would do away with the requirement for alcohol, we know that it is a good thing to have"

How is that a good thing? If people want ethanol in their gas, then they would buy it. The fact that the government has had to resort to forcing people to buy ethanol laced gasoline proves that ethanol is a failure...

"Once it gets added to all gasoline, it will put us that much closer to being free of oil imports"

How do you figure? We have E10 know, yet that hasn't effected how much oil we import...
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 9:13:22 AM

skye1212 wrote: "Not to mention the corrosive effects on the engine."

How exactly is ethanol corrosive?
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skye1212
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2013 9:01:20 AM

Simple science than ethanol has 25% less btu's of energy. That means worse mileage for all of us.

Not to mention the corrosive effects on the engine.
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haroldj1
Rookie Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2013 9:42:30 PM

Aside from being a cleaner fuel (when added to gasoline, get less pollution), it gives higher octane, and provides some competition to the oil companies, and when using it we require less imported oil
When the oil companies want to do away with the RFS ( renewable fuel standard) would do away with the requirement for alcohol, we know that it is a good thing to have.
The government allows r-15, 15% alcohol for all cars built in 2011 or after. Big oil is fighting it. They sued the EPA and lost. They are putting financial pressure on alcohol mixers to delay adding that quantity to the gasoline mixture.
Once it gets added to all gasoline, it will put us that much closer to being free of oil imports.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2013 5:47:04 PM

"A point that even the EPA agrees negatively affects gas mileage, but I can guarantee the ethanol shills will dispute this, all without a lick of proof... "

It doesn't make any difference what the EPA agrees with. They do not test with ethanol or regular gasoline. They use a reference fuel called Indolene Clear and estimate what they think mileage would be with both regular gasoline and ethanol.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2013 5:31:31 PM

"Also, there is less energy or mileage in every unit of ethanol versus gasoline"

A point that even the EPA agrees negatively affects gas mileage, but I can guarantee the ethanol shills will dispute this, all without a lick of proof...

"I'd like the choice to buy just gasoline"

Unfortunately the corn and ethanol lobby don't want you to have that choice...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 5:59:28 PM

"Unfortunately, ethanol does make our gas less stable long term and can be corrosive to rubber seals and gaskets in the engine."

Many of the compounds that compose gasoline are harder on rubber than ethanol.

" Also, there is less energy or mileage in every unit
of ethanol versus gasoline."

Yes, and ethanol produces more horsepower than gasoline can. There's more to fuel economy than just the number of btu per gallon.
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skye1212
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 4:37:59 PM

Unfortunately, ethanol does make our gas less stable long term and can be corrosive
to rubber seals and gaskets in the engine. Also, there is less energy or mileage in every unit
of ethanol versus gasoline.

I'd like the choice to buy just gasoline.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 10:47:50 AM

Shockjock1961 wrong: "The higher octane is wasted in most cars since they are not built to run with higher octane fuel, so the more power claim is a piece of misinformation."

Wrong, what a surprise. Just because you drive a car that possibly does not need higher octane fuel does not mean that others do. It is not about you or want you want, time to grow up.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 9:11:08 AM

"The higher octane is wasted in most cars since they are not built to run with higher octane fuel, so the more power claim is a piece of misinformation."

And some are built to take advantage of the higher octane. As the video states, that's not just limited to higher relative compression. By leaning the fuel mixture when using ethanol, combustion temperatures increase. The higher octane prevents detonation at higher temperatures. So, efficiency increases.

I drive one of the early Chevrolet Tahoe FFVs. for several years Chevrolet equipped that particular model with an ethanol sensor. They also programmed the car to burn ethanol at a very aggressive temperature. I see almost no difference in fuel economy.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 8:14:58 AM

The higher octane is wasted in most cars since they are not built to run with higher octane fuel, so the more power claim is a piece of misinformation. They also forgot to mention lower fuel mileage, wonder why?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 12:26:06 PM

"But ethanol gives you worse mpg "

I don't see a measurable difference. I've driven over 130,000 miles with E85 and several hundred thousand miles with E10. It's difficult to measure a difference with E85 when I drive an identical route, under similar weather and driving conditions. I might see a 5% difference with E85. It's just plain too close to measure.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 10:09:38 AM

Plus adding ethanol to gasoline is the best additive there is. All the oil companies buy the same gas at the rack and then charge more for their "additives" to "clean the gunk out of your engine." No need for extra additives...ethanol is the best! Ethanol cleans your engine!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/20/2013 10:10:51 AM EST]
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BigHorne1
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 10:09:13 AM

But ethanol gives you worse mpg
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