Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    2:16 AM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: All Things Ethanol > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Renewable Fuel Standard working "a little to well" for the American Petroleum Institute Back to Topics
Hannie59

All-Star Author
Appleton

Posts:964
Points:24,300
Joined:Apr 2010
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 1:13:55 PM

This article sums it up.

FROM CNN:

See who wants to stop the RFS just when cellulosic has arrived on the scene. And why they want it stopped! It's because they own you, the country, the economy. Use ethanol and help stop the petroleum stranglehold now. Thank you.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

Posts:278
Points:256,185
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 8:03:20 PM

"If the EPA sets the number for cellulosic ethanol for 2014 and by mid year no one is making it anymore then what happens?"

Simple EPA will waive the requirement to use more then what has been produced.There was a court ruling earlier this year that the EPA can't force oil companies to pay penalties for 2012 since there was not enough cellulosic ethanol available to blend to meet the EPA requirement.
Profile Pic
darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

Posts:457
Points:6,860
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 8:32:29 AM

"Given the higher cost it will have a difficult time being commercially viable."

Reminds me of the kind of thing people said about corn ethanol in the 90s. It was somewhat more expensive to produce and received direct subsidies for that reason. Then ethanol producers did the dance of science and innovation, the subsidies were pulled back (with support from ethanol producers), and now it's cheaper than gasoline products.

In 10 years a huge portion of our fuel will be from cellulosic sources, it will be cheaper than rare crude, and we'll laugh about this whole conversation.
Profile Pic
gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

Posts:1,894
Points:72,615
Joined:Jun 2011
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 10:46:54 PM

The EPA has already adjusted the requirements for cellulosic ethanol. They have already shown that they will be flexible.
“We expect that in preparing the 2014 proposed rule, we will estimate the available supply of cellulosic and advanced biofuel, assess the (10 percent ethanol) blend wall and current infrastructure and market-based limitations to the consumption of ethanol in gasoline-ethanol blends above E10, and then propose to establish volume requirements that are reasonably attainable in light of these considerations and others as appropriate,” the EPA said in its final rule.EPA lowers target for cellulosic biofuels in gasoline



[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/7/2013 10:48:28 PM EST]
Profile Pic
brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

Posts:1,426
Points:25,305
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 10:07:42 PM

No, because everyone puts spin on what is actually being said. How much cellulosic ethanol is sold today in America? Not projected, not start ups, not potential, how much is actually being made and sold today? Given the higher cost it will have a difficult time being commercially viable. THe concern is will the startups actually stay in business, viable and producing ethanol? If the EPA sets the number for cellulosic ethanol for 2014 and by mid year no one is making it anymore then what happens? Again forcing a product on the market with penalties attached for non use before anyone is even sure they can make enough of it to meet the standard.
Profile Pic
Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

Posts:964
Points:24,300
Joined:Apr 2010
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 6:56:26 PM

Tell me brer, Is this ramp up in lies from the oil industry due to the fact that more and more people are learning that ethanol is great in engines, just at the time when cellulosic is set to bust wide open? Yes, or no? You KNOW the truth so admit it.
Profile Pic
brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

Posts:1,426
Points:25,305
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 4:27:09 PM

Good for them, if cellulosic ethanol can be commercially viable then it will move ethanol usage ahead tremendously. Again while ethanol supporters say Congress is being influenced by big oil which they are doing, a big part of the discussion is framed around how fast you set the cellulosic number at high rates. There have been several starts by these companies that wind up shutting down before you know it. They can produce the ethanol but at a cost that is above what the corn producers can produce it for, and the corn ethanol is what sets the market price. So in essence what you have is one segment of the industry lead by the RFA group backed by corn essentially pricing competitors (like cellulosic producers) out of the market.

The very thing you decry that the oil companies do happens within the ethanol community and goes largely untalked about.

Oil companies as everyone should be concerned if the EPA sets a cellulosic ethanol usage goal that exceeds the markets ability to make it. Further they might want to let these new companies operate for a while and make sure they will survive economically.

Once again what you see as blocking the use of ethanol can very reasonably be looked at as making sure what the EPA says should be done, actually can be done.
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,285
Points:2,855,055
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 3:56:11 PM

Lets see what the big oil shills have to say about this one.
Profile Pic
darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

Posts:457
Points:6,860
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 2:11:31 PM

Good article. The DISQUS comments at the bottom are full of myths. >:(
Profile Pic
gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

Posts:1,894
Points:72,615
Joined:Jun 2011
Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 1:39:42 PM

Yes is does sum it up!
Post a reply Back to Topics