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Author Topic: Separate fuel tank for ethanol? Back to Topics
darwinfinch

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Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 11:39:20 AM

Pros and cons of a concept vehicle with 2 tanks? One for gasoline, one for ethanol. The blending happens in-line before it reaches the engine, and is dynamic. Blending could be controlled by the computer, by the driver, hardwired by the manufacturer, or a combination.

The seed of the idea: If cars themselves did the blending, stations wouldn't need to worry about it; provide 100% gasoline and E85 side by side and the rest is on automakers and consumers to decide.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Aug 14, 2013 11:25:26 AM

All drunk drivers have two fuel tanks. One for gasoline and one for ethanol.
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divebomber
Champion Author Nebraska

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 7:17:39 PM

I HATE ETHANOL!
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 6:29:41 PM

not likely.
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cools1611
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 6:23:36 PM

I don't think its feasible with current cars.
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SoylentGrain
All-Star Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 5:51:56 PM

Interesting thought. It would allow the use of near 100% ethanol. Like the idea.

That was the way some cars were made for the Brazil market, by the way. Two tanks. The car started on gasoline and switched over to near 100% hydrous ethanol after warming up.

The cost to make a car with two fuel tanks or a split tank would be minimal. In addition to the increased performance of running 100% ethanol, there is value to redundancy of two separate fuel systems.
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FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 2:53:44 PM

AWD Tempos had two tanks; I'd love to fit them to mine.
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ggg452
Champion Author Manitoba

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 12:30:07 PM

What???? More tanks, pumps, systems, expense.... no more ethanol....
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bluenvoy
Champion Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 11:40:19 AM

Anything to make the cars more expensive.
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 8:44:05 AM

I really like the idea but I can't see that ever being allowed. Too many opportunities for coocoobats to fiddle with the mix process and create 'harmful' situations.

Maybe something like plugging your car's computer into the gas pump to dispense the optimum mix for your vehicle setup and use could happen.
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cools1611
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 10:47:06 PM

Hope it makes a difference and not just one way for automobile companies to make more money lol......
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Toppers
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 10:32:13 PM

Interesting concept but...still not a fan of E...
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ZR1S10
Rookie Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 10:31:42 PM

GrumpyCat ethanol decreases NOx emissions allowing higher compression ratio and improved efficiency. New tech and better computer control has also lowered NOx and allowed higher ratios. Just look at Mazada Skyactive engines, they have 14:1 compression and even those aren't built exclusively for E85. Typically you and go as high as 16:1 with an NA engine or 14:1 on a boosted engine running ethanol.
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 9:14:29 PM

"If you bumped your compression ratio up by about 4 to 5 full numbers, making a deticated E85 engine and used winter blend E85 (E70) then there would be no need for a 2 tank cold start setup."

Increased compression ratio results in increased NOx emissions. Its a big problem for diesels. Its also why 1980's engines were big displacement, low compression ratio (8.5:1 was about as high as it got), and low output.
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 9:11:59 PM

If you gave consumers the option then you couldn't force consumers to use ethanol with government mandate. Also the easier you make it for consumers to compare pure gasoline to ethanol blends the less likely one would chose ethanol.

I do think there is good justification for adding CNG tanks to diesels, especially OTR trucks. One could reduce diesel consumption by some modest amount by running on both diesel as a pilot fuel and CNG as a supplement. Then if one is somewhere CNG is not available there is no problem running off 100% diesel same as one always did before. Is far better to use CNG directly rather than use it to power ethanol distilleries and use CNG indirectly as ethanol or fertilizer to grow crops for ethanol.
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 9:07:16 AM

1. It will increase the cost of the car.
2. People will not bother filling the ethanol tank.
3. Now you have two tanks to fill which is a pain for consumers.
4. Gas stations need to have separate pumps for ethanol and gasoline.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 3, 2013 1:14:28 PM

Yet another good reason to allow E100.
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ZR1S10
Rookie Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 6:40:21 PM

Ford also once showed a deticated E85 concept engine with 2 sets of injectors, direct injecting E85 and then port injecting gas. It was a 5.0L codenamed "Bobcat".
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 6:10:37 PM

If you bumped your compression ratio up by about 4 to 5 full numbers, making a deticated E85 engine and used winter blend E85 (E70) then there would be no need for a 2 tank cold start setup.

Just keep a can of starting fluid handy for when it gets really cold.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 2:22:28 PM

Thats true. Have you seen this calculator? It's how I blend to E-40 every time. I have bumped up my percentages lately.

blending

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 8/2/2013 2:23:31 PM EST]
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FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 2:15:22 PM

Already have that in my '94 F150. Fill one tank with E10 and the other with E85 in cold weather, thus I start it on E10, switch to E85 when engine is warm (doesn't matter if it's -40F out, it works great whenever the engine is warm), then switch back to E10 a bit before shutdown so that it is at the injectors for the next cold start. None of that is necessary through the summer.

I know you are getting at custom blend ratios; hell I do that in-tank upon fill-up.
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giwan
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 12:35:36 PM

Wouldn't you put gasoline in one and straight ethanol in another? I suppose you could put any mixes in there that are available if there are sensors that know the mix. Seems like a high auto cost
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 11:50:10 AM

Yeah but I'd just put E-85 in both.
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