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gamechanger2011

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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2013 10:11:30 PM

President Obama Honor Your Pledge on Flex Fuel Vehicles
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 12:09:43 PM

Once again, what caused the earthquake was not fracking...

And as you article points out, not even everyone agrees that it was the wastewater injection that was the cause of it...

"Oklahoma’s state seismologists say the quake was natural"

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 8/1/2013 12:10:23 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 12:03:18 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — A team of scientists have determined that a 5.6 magnitude quake in Oklahoma in 2011 was caused when oil drilling waste was injected deep underground.

"That makes it the most powerful quake to be blamed on deep injections of wastewater, although not everyone agrees. Oklahoma’s state seismologists say the quake was natural.

The Nov. 6 earthquake near Prague, Okla., injured two people, damaged 14 houses and was the strongest Midwestern quake in decades.

The new report says there was a smaller quake at the site of an old injection well, and that triggered the larger tremor. Records show the well pressure rising dramatically in 2006. The scientists say both combine to make a strong case that waste injections caused the quake.

The report was released Tuesday by the journal Geology.

—————-

Fracking induced earthquakes / injection well earthquakes — are becoming a menace as of late…"3/26/2013 — Oklahoma 5.6M earthquake in 2011 — determined to be “man made” Posted on March 26, 2013 by sincedutch
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 12:02:35 PM

"I like turtles"

That's about as relevant as anything else you have posted DF...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 12:01:32 PM

"Not a clue what you are talking about Shocky"

I don't? I got this from your posted article GC:

"That would make it the most powerful quake to be blamed on deep injections of wastewater, according to a study published Tuesday by the journal Geology. The waste was from traditional drilling, not from the hydraulic fracturing technique, or fracking."

The quake was not caused by fracking...


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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 12:00:35 PM

I like turtles.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:59:44 AM

Once again, practically all modern forms of energy production have their hazards. How can you state that fracking is worse then any other?
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:57:59 AM

Not a clue what you are talking about Shocky....hahaha

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/1/2013 11:58:55 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:56:59 AM

Once again GC, if you read your own article, the earthquake was not a result of fracking...
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:56:38 AM

You would argue about ice water Shocky. It's from injecting water in the ground....what does fracking do? This just proves that ALL forms of extracting crude are dangerous!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/1/2013 11:57:05 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:56:06 AM

I really don't see how small earthquakes are any more damaging or should be any more upsetting then the damage that is done by ethanol production. After, all, in order to produce the raw product used to make ethanol we are literally poisoning the landscape...
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:54:34 AM

"The largest-ever recorded quake in Oklahoma was caused by the injection of wastewater, a byproduct of oil extraction, into the ground, new research confirms.

On Nov. 6, 2011, a series of earthquakes, including a 5.6-magnitude temblor, struck the rural town of Prague, about 37 miles (60 kilometers) east of Oklahoma City, crumbling homes in the area and damaging a federal highway. The quake could be felt as far away as Milwaukee.

"We don't normally feel earthquakes, it was shocking," said study co-author Katie Keranen, a seismologist at Oklahoma University."Largest Oklahoma Earthquake Linked to Oil Extraction Wastewater
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:52:43 AM

Sorry GC, your 5.6 quake was not caused by fracking...

"The waste was from traditional drilling, not from the hydraulic fracturing technique, or fracking."


[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 8/1/2013 11:53:50 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:51:28 AM


"WASHINGTON – An unusual and widely felt 5.6-magnitude quake in Oklahoma in 2011 was probably caused when oil drilling waste was pushed deep underground, a team of university and federal scientists concluded.
That would make it the most powerful quake to be blamed on deep injections of wastewater, according to a study published Tuesday by the journal Geology. The waste was from traditional drilling, not from the hydraulic fracturing technique, or fracking."

Oklahoma 5.6 magnitude earthquake
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:47:57 AM

Good grief Shockjock. You just said fracking is no more harmful than ethanol production to the environment. May I suggest some professional help.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 8/1/2013 11:48:17 AM EST]
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:47:06 AM

"If fracking causes no more damage thena truck driving by, why is it a big deal?"

1. It seems that the damage caused is a great deal more than a truck driving by.

2. Even if it were equivalent, it's alarming because we're looking at symptoms. When you hear a rumble and see a truck drive by, you quickly understand the cause of the symptoms. When you hear a rumble and there's nothing in view to observe, and you're told that an irresponsible corporation is playing with geology for profit, the cause is not immediate, not comforting, and the red flag stays up because no answers have been given or observed. How the difference could escape you is concerning to me.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:46:24 AM

The thing you are ignoring is that there is always some detrimental aspects to modern energy prodcution. Even your "blessed" ethanol creates huge environmental issues. Fracking is no more detrimental to people then is ethanol production, which is what the real issue should be...
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:46:06 AM

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about on this thread. I'd quit while I was ahead if I were you. Your comments are extremely insensitive to people that experienced this.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:41:48 AM

"It caused damage"

Really? Where did you read that?

"you haven't even read the articles that I provided......have you?"

I sure have, and your article contradicts what you claim:

"The largest fracking-induced earthquake "was magnitude 3.6, which is too small to pose a serious risk,"
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:36:37 AM

It caused damage and was felt through SEVERAL states...including Kansas and Missouri! It's a BIG deal! Shocky....you haven't even read the articles that I provided......have you?

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/1/2013 11:37:41 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:34:53 AM

If fracking causes no more damage thena truck driving by, why is it a big deal?
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:32:49 AM

If a baby cries because it's hungry, it's not a big deal. If it cries because it's in a grizzly bear's mouth, it's a big deal.

If my house shakes because a big truck drove by, it's not a big deal. If it shakes because a corporation that doesn't believe in regulations or environmental responsibility is pressure-pumping toxic chemicals into the geological foundations of my neighborhood, it's a big deal.
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:28:08 AM

That is a ridiculous statement! It caused quite a bit of damage in Oklahoma near the epicenter, and they made our house SHAKE. There were concerns about a nuclear plant in our state experiencing damage.
You have no idea about the magnitude of an earthquake. There were several that literally shook our house!
Post on something that you know something about!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 8/1/2013 11:29:12 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:22:39 AM

"Oh Shocky....please post something with some merit."

I believe I have. These earthquakes you complain about, created no more disturbance then a large truck driving by would do, so why is that of concern?

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 8/1/2013 11:23:38 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 11:21:09 AM

Oh Shocky....please post something with some merit. I am not going down the nonsense road with you today. Not today Shocky......
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 10:54:26 AM

You forgot the insignificant part GC... Why am I not surprised?
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 10:42:09 AM

DW...

"I guess so long as these are isolated to someone else's neighborhood that's okay with me."That's the Shocky way of thinking!
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 10:37:06 AM

"Fracking is acceptable because any issues that it may create are isolated and insignificant..."

- small earthquakes/tremors
- tolerable amounts of gas released
- water with methane bubbles still technically drinkable
- 50% of fracking fluid left underground "out of view"
- other half of fluid... nobody is sure where it goes

I guess so long as these are isolated to someone else's neighborhood that's okay with me.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 10:23:27 AM

"Basically, "fracking is okay because it only creates small earthquakes."

Fracking is acceptable because any issues that it may create are isolated and insignificant...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 10:22:06 AM

I'm glad you agree that your premise is laughable GC...
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 9:57:20 AM

LOL right back at you Shocky!
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 8:51:39 AM

"A 4.7 magnitude earthquake means there is a little shaking."

Basically, "fracking is okay because it only creates small earthquakes."
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 8:24:59 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "So you must be really upset by the Gulf dead zone that is being created by agricultural runoffs."

Here you go again. Spreading spin and misinformation again.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 8:23:08 AM

"the commission decided that the hundreds of recent earthquakes, including ones of 4.7 and 4.1 magnitude"

Another LOL!!

A 4.7 magnitude earthquake means there is a little shaking. I've had trucks drive by that created a bigger disturbance then that...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 8:19:14 AM

"Drilling holes and the ground and fracturing rock is messing with nature."

LOL!!!

Plowing up the ground and spraying pesticides and fertilizers is not??

LOL!!!

" Fracking at 10,000 feet? Really. Sounds to me like a catastrophe waiting to happen. "

Please explain how this is "a catastrophe waiting to happen"...

" How many more BP gulf oil spill catastrophes do to we have to have before you guys stop destroying everything."

So you must be really upset by the Gulf dead zone that is being created by agricultural runoffs. When are you going to sign-off on ethanol because of the ecological problems it causes?

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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 10:10:53 PM

Reuters article 7/11/13 Eartquakes and Fracking
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 9:59:27 PM

Geologists have known for 50 years that injecting fluid underground can increase pressure on seismic faults and make them more likely to slip. The result is an "induced" quake.

"A recent surge in U.S. oil and gas production - much of it using vast amounts of water to crack open rocks and release natural gas, as in fracking, or to bring up oil and gas from standard wells - has been linked to an increase in small to moderate induced earthquakes in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Ohio, Texas and Colorado.

Now seismologists at Columbia University say they have identified three quakes - in Oklahoma, Colorado and Texas - that were triggered at injection-well sites by major earthquakes a long distance away.

"The fluids (in wastewater injection wells) are driving the faults to their tipping point," said Nicholas van der Elst of Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York, who led the study. It was funded by the National Science Foundation and the U.S. Geological Survey.

Fracking opponents' main concern is that it will release toxic chemicals into water supplies, said John Armstrong, a spokesman for New Yorkers Against Fracking, an advocacy group.

But "when you tell people the process is linked to earthquakes, the reaction is, 'what? They're doing something that can cause earthquakes?' This really should be a stark warning," he said."


[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/31/2013 10:07:17 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 9:49:37 PM


"Scientists were swarming around central Oklahoma last week planting seismometers and digging through records in an effort to answer the question of the moment: Did oil and gas fracking cause last week’s unnervingly strong earthquakes?"
Scientists investigate whether drilling and OK earthquakes are linked



[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/31/2013 9:51:16 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 9:44:16 PM

We experienced these earthquakes...
"But, back to Oklahoma. Austin Holland’s August 2011 report, “Examination of Possibly Induced Seismicity from Hydraulic Fracturing in the Eola Field, Garvin County, Oklahoma” Oklahoma Geological Survey OF1-2011, studied 43 earthquakes that occurred on 18 January, ranging in intensity from 1.0 to 2.8 Md (milliDarcies.) While the report’s conclusions are understandably cautious, it does state, “Our analysis showed that shortly after hydraulic fracturing began small earthquakes started occurring, and more than 50 were identified, of which 43 were large enough to be located.

Can't get the link to post.

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/31/2013 9:46:29 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 9:13:54 PM

I'm with Darwinginch on this. The oil guys on here are out of touch with reality. We had earthquakes in Wichita Kansas last year. Imagine that...and guess what...there's a very real possibility that it was caused by all the fracking in Oklahoma. Earthquakes just don't happen in Wichita. Scientists were looking at the possibility that the earthquakes were caused by fracking. I believe that it was determined that the Arkansas earthquakes were caused by too much fracking.

Drilling holes and the ground and fracturing rock is messing with nature. Fracking at 10,000 feet? Really. Sounds to me like a catastrophe waiting to happen. How many more BP gulf oil spill catastrophes do to we have to have before you guys stop destroying everything. The BP spill was IT for me. You oil companies have NO right to cause the catastrophic damage that you cause, and then have the gall to expect the rest of us just to live in the carnage! It infuriates me! I've seen enough!
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oilpan4
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 6:47:40 PM

"Do fracking incidents you describe occur?"

What you mean like when fracking fluid comes to the surface miles away and sparys every where during a fracking operation?
Nope, appears to a work of fiction as far as I can tell and you know if there was any posibility that it might have happened any where in the world the energy indutury hating liberal media would have been all over it.

"The oil company pumps what they can, and the rest is for us to enjoy."

Its thousands of feet below the surface, how are we going to enjoy it other than enjoying the cheap supply of natural gas?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 7/31/2013 6:50:52 PM EST]
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oilpan4
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 6:43:11 PM

"Yeah, growing plants in the sun and fermenting them in a metal bin"

You think that's all there is too it? Oh this is too funny.

"It's not uncommon to have fracking noodles pop out of the ground miles away and spray chemicals everywhere"

If it were so common why cant I find any instance of it?
Must be an oil company cover up .
I am searching and the closes thing I can find to "fracking chemicals" or "fracking fluid" coming to the surface is disposal of used fracking fluid and a well head that failed during fracking operations.
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 4:29:45 PM

darwin, nice to hear you have so much experience in the oil field. I will defer to you on future questions. Do fracking incidents you describe occur? Yes. Are they most often related to shallow gas wells? Yes. The process I described is in fact related to deep (+10,000 ft) wells. I then freely admited that there are concerns and legitimate ones for shallower gas wells. I even entertain that there are those who believe fracking can lead to seismilogical events but that the science is not complete yet.

For my efforts you attack me. Thanks! When you want to have a long and meaningful discussion about drilling and all of the complications involved we can do that.

I try to be as practical and pragmatic as possible in discussions here and when the ethanol at all cost members like yourself lash out you really do undermine your cause. I have stated I have nothing against ethanol. Find a way to produce, distribute, tank, and move ethanol to cover 100% of the US fuels market in E-85 tomorrow at a competative price and I will be right there with you. But that's not reality and you won't admit that. Others like Hannie will but you won't, so lets just agree to disagree. Cheers!

[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 7/31/2013 4:37:19 PM EST]
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 2:46:02 PM

Hearing oil defenders speak of fracking as a precision art is just ridiculous. Even if the process were approached as carefully as you just described, we could never trust the oil industry (which constantly cries about rules and regulations) to proceed with that level of caution. These guys can't maintain their pipelines, their deepwater rigs, their derricks, their storage tanks, or their trains. Why should we trust them to push tons of chemical through a "steel casing and tubing" passing through the aquifers we depend on?

In reality, the process is not the "tube in the ground" you described. It's a very innaccurate, broad process with the goal of disturbing the bedrock of an area. The more damage done to the bedrock, the more successful the fracking. It's not uncommon to have fracking noodles pop out of the ground miles away and spray chemicals everywhere, or for lines to puncture water wells, water tables, salt caverns, and other structures. These guys go in and start noodling around in the substrates playing geological lottery. I've observed this process first hand and if you think it has anything to do with precision or caution, you're kidding yourself.

And EVEN IF the wells, the equipment, and the fracking chemicals never come into contact with the water tables, the gases and oils released deliberately via this process are liberated to move upward and outward. The oil company pumps what they can, and the rest is for us to enjoy.

[Edited by: darwinfinch at 7/31/2013 2:48:20 PM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 2:13:25 PM

While fracking in wells that are at a shallower depth can have effects on the inground water supplies the majority of oil fracking is occuring at depths that exceed 10,000 feet which is well below any water tables. Drilling an oil and or gas well is no more invasive than drilling a water well. Before any fracking occurs the well bore is lined with steel casing and tubing allowing for dual completion of the well at multiple depths and to capture both oil and natural gas from the same well. The fracking compound never comes into contact with the water tables and essentially just passes through it in basically what could be termed a pipeline.

The majority of the findings about the problems from fracking come from areas where the natural gas wells are not much deeper than the water table. There are definite concerns in these areas. Deeper wells should not have adverse effects on water sources.

Now as to the studies that claim fracking causes tremors at the least and earthquakes at the worst, I cannot comment because there has been very little research in that area other than a few acadimics publishing speculative conclusions based on theroies. In otherwords the jury is still out on that subject.

[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 7/31/2013 2:14:49 PM EST]
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 1:42:41 PM

You're the professor. Why don't you educate us?
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 1:19:48 PM

You are just embarrassing yourself by showing your lack of knowledge of the process...
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 11:49:50 AM

Oh, so they don't actually pressure load the chemical sludge into the water table, they just drill THROUGH the water table, fracture its underlying geology, and then pass all of the gas and petroleum up through it? My mistake. I'd drink that. I'm sure they are very careful about how it's done and I'll bet they invest a lot in best practices, etc.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 11:24:30 AM

"Yeah, growing plants in the sun and fermenting them in a metal bin"

You mean growing genetically frakencrops doused with poisons which contaminate soil and water, while fermenting the reult in a container filled with chemicals and anti-biotics...

"is on the same par as pressure pumping immeasurable amounts of blast-mined chemical sludge into the geological core of our water tables"

LOL!!!

Water tables are found a couple of hundred feet underground, while petroleum reserves are typically several thousand feet!

Propaganda at it's best!

LOL!!!
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darwinfinch
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 11:12:55 AM

Yeah, growing plants in the sun and fermenting them in a metal bin is on the same par as pressure pumping immeasurable amounts of blast-mined chemical sludge into the geological core of our water tables in hopes that the bedrock will fracture to release a pinata of ancient gas and ooze.

That's like equating dentistry with throwing a bowling ball at someone's face.

[Edited by: darwinfinch at 7/31/2013 11:15:15 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 10:58:51 AM

"Fracking is horrible"

??

It's no worse then ethanol production...
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