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Author Topic: FLEX FUEL "FOR DUMMIES" from "How Stuff Works" Back to Topics
gamechanger2011

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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2013 9:50:51 PM

There seems to be some confusion about Flex Fuel Vehicles. So here is an explanation that I think is pretty easy to understand. Flex vehicles give people choices. That's all....it's that simple!
"As the term "flexible fuel" implies, any E85 ethanol flex-fuel vehicle can run on 100 percent E85, 100 percent pump gasoline of any octane, or any combination of E85 ethanol and gasoline. The car's on-board diagnostic systems compensate for any of these blends to keep it running according to manufacturer's specifications."
FLEX FUEL VEHICLES "FOR DUMMIES"
The newest figures on converting at the factory are around $100.


[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/26/2013 9:53:31 PM EST]
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taxed2death
Veteran Author Hartford

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2013 12:42:44 PM

they run E15 in nascar. Not enough stations near me yet. only 1 in whole state of ct.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2013 10:06:13 AM

tropicalm...We live in the same town as Koch Industries. I didn't know that they have been blending with subgrade for years. That's interesting. The reason oil companies are going to do this is to squeeze some more profit out. Koch's must have figured this out years ago.
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tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2013 10:01:53 AM

"Will the new subgrade fuel that the oil companies are going to start using this fall lower the MPG that a car gets from unleaded/E10?"

In MN Koch refinery has had Sub octane w/10% ethanol (87 octane) & 87 octane unleaded w/10% ethanol(89 octane mid grade) for many years.I have never seen any individual claims, independent tests or anything myself that would suggest there would be any difference in fuel economy.On the other hand I would expect someone in this forum will claim otherwise.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2013 8:50:06 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "No this quote refutes the claim by ethanol shills that you will get more horespower buy increasing the percentage of ethanol in your gasoline..."

I get more horsepower by running higher Ethanol blends on multiple cars. Stock ECU on car #1 does not retard timing, and timing is power, on higher octane gas. Car #2 is a turbo car and extra timing and boost makes a huge difference. You, Shockjock1961, are simply clueless.

Shockjock1961 wrote: "Yah, the price drops in a product when there is no demand for it..."

Yet the demand for gasoline drops and the price increases. It is called Big Oil Greed.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/29/2013 8:55:46 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2013 8:23:35 AM

"It's like running PREMIUM fuel in you car but a lot cheaper!"

Most cars are not tuned to efficeintly use premium so what's your point?

"This quote just says that Flex vehicles aren't race cars!"

No this quote refutes the claim by ethanol shills that you will get more horespower buy increasing the percentage of ethanol in your gasoline...

"Since this was written the wholesale cost of E85 is way down"

Yah, the price drops in a product when there is no demand for it...

"Ethanol supporters see a problem and a need, and are trying to fix it."

The only problem is that ethanol has solved no problems and created others. Good going..
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 9:16:20 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "So much for the lies being told here on how running E85 will increase your horsepower..."

Another idiotic statement by Shockjock1961. I have a suggestion for you, if you do not know anything on the subject do not post. I guess that would mean you should stop posting all together.
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pawnkingfour
Champion Author Georgia

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 4:49:37 PM

Great info. Thanks.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 2:51:27 PM

ZR1S10....please make sure that you have a full link and I will repost it for you. You can't post links on here until you have so many points....forget what it is. We will help you in the meantime! Welcome!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/28/2013 2:51:52 PM EST]
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ZR1S10
Rookie Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 2:47:38 PM

Ethanol does in fact improve performance. And that improvement is increasing all the time. Newer engines with better ECUs make more changes to the tune. It's only a matter of time before we see huge gains in power and mpg.



[Edited by: ZR1S10 at 7/28/2013 2:53:51 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 2:31:23 PM

I have a question. Will the new subgrade fuel that the oil companies are going to start using this fall lower the MPG that a car gets from unleaded/E10?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 1:24:05 PM

Shocky quotes:
"E85 ethanol has an octane rating of 100-105, versus 85-95 for gasoline, but manufacturers do not tune E85 ethanol-capable engines for higher performance than their gas-only counterparts."

Then Shocky says "So much for the lies being told here on how running E85 will increase your horsepower..."

You haven't a clue about the difference between horsepower and octane.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 11:53:04 AM

TIer 3 also has a plan to make cars that are designed to run on higher ethanol blends that will put an end to any loss in MPG. Cars today are made to run on gas but that could change when Tier 3 passes. Then the MPG discussion will be dead.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 11:35:11 AM

Shocky...the difference between ethanol supporters and gas supporters is that ethanol supporters think about things other then themselves. Ethanol supporters see a problem and a need, and are trying to fix it. We are BIG picture thinkers, thinking outside of the box! We are informed and free thinking! We want to be part of the solution and NOT the problem! Someday everyone will realize that what WE are doing is the right thing to do. Thank the Lord for visionaries...that's what makes our country so great!!!!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/28/2013 11:37:05 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 11:15:44 AM

Shocky...

"E85 ethanol has an octane rating of 100-105, versus 85-95 for gasoline, but manufacturers do not tune E85 ethanol-capable engines for higher performance than their gas-only counterparts."

So much for the lies being told here on how running E85 will increase your horsepower..."

It's like running PREMIUM fuel in you car but a lot cheaper! This quote just says that Flex vehicles aren't race cars! We get a lot of race cars at our station filling with E85 that are tuned to take advantage of the higher octane, but I'm not even sure if they are street legal. All of our E85 customers like the way their cars run on E85 more then gas. I talk to customers all the time about it. E85 is superior fuel!

Since this was written the wholesale cost of E85 is way down, unlike gasoline!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/28/2013 11:21:09 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 11:05:32 AM

Hey Shocky...E85 is $2.99 at our store and gas is $3.43. It's ALL about price to most of the population and we are selling a lot of it!

So it's MUCH cheaper, cleaner burning, higher octane and better for the environment! Everyone should buy Flex Vehicles so they have a choice at the pumps!!!!!



[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 7/28/2013 11:08:24 AM EST]
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wvmtngeek
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 9:52:30 AM

Now I'm confused...

if E85 ethanol doesn't imply the percentage mix, then what's the difference, chemically speaking, between E10 and E85 Ethanol?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 9:50:14 AM

"E85 ethanol has an octane rating of 100-105, versus 85-95 for gasoline, but manufacturers do not tune E85 ethanol-capable engines for higher performance than their gas-only counterparts."

So much for the lies being told here on how running E85 will increase your horsepower...

"The newest figures on converting at the factory are around $100."

Where did you come up with that figure?

"Supply, demand, and distribution costs figure among reasons E85 ethanol can be more expensive than conventional gasoline at the pump."

That speaks volumes...

" In addition, wholesale ethanol prices are increasing as oil companies stock up on the alcohol as a substitute for petroleum additives suspected of causing cancer. And E85 ethanol costs more to distribute than gas. The blend can't be pumped through petroleum pipelines because of the corrosive impact of its alcohol content, for example."

Need you say more?

" So you've found a station with E85 ethanol, decided the price was right, and you've filled the tank of your flex-fuel car or truck. How far will it take you?
Not as far as a tank of gasoline would. As the examples of the Impala and F 150 show, your fuel economy using E85 ethanol is lower than with gasoline. These are not isolated examples. Overall, depending on the vehicle, fuel economy with E85 ethanol is some 20 to 30 percent less than with gasoline."

Why yes, I guess more did need to be said...

"Looked at another way, a tank of E85 ethanol will take you only about 80 percent as far as you could drive on a tank of gasoline. On E85 ethanol, you'll stop more to refuel, have to plan ahead to make sure the station carries E85 ethanol, and perhaps pay more per gallon once you get there."

Thanks for posting such an elightening link GC. It's nice to see you have an open mind and are willing to accept and post E85's limitations....
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tomtom08
All-Star Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 9:29:56 AM

I had a chevy and it was flex fuel. never used flex fuel because could not find it at any gas stations in ri so it was a waste for me
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Floridaman2013
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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2013 5:49:17 AM

I love the performance of my flex fuel 2011 Jeep GC 3.6L. All my next auto purchases will have to be flex fuel or it's not worth the money since all stations around here sell 10-15% ethanol mix. MY VEHICLES THAT ARE NOT FLEX FUEL will drop the mileage sometimes on different fill ups.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2013 12:04:58 AM

I think that there is something on the table in the Tier 3 plan that says that "Flex Vehicles" should cover being able to use gasoline, ethanol and methanol. I was told that it is a very slight change to adapt the Flex cars to be able to use methanol as well. Once again it's all about giving consumers a choice. I might prefer ethanol and you might prefer methanol. It's all good as long as we have good choices!
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aRBy
All-Star Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2013 11:46:16 PM

Our flex fuel vehicles also need to be capable of running on methanol. Methanol is even cheaper than ethanol. The cheapest and easiest way to make methanol is steam reduction of natural gas. In addition, there is no sense in making "cellulosic ethanol" if our cars burn methanol. We can make wood alcohol (aka methanol) from cellulose fibers easier and cheaper than we'll ever be able to make ethanol from these feedstocks.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2013 10:02:56 PM

"So we've seen that choosing an E85 ethanol flex fuel vehicle and running it on E85 ethanol may not be to your personal advantage in terms of convenience and fuel cost. But it won't affect vehicle performance. And once you consider arguments on both sides of this the complex issue, you may decide that buying a flex-fuel vehicle and running it on E85 ethanol is a personal gesture of support for American agriculture, alternative fuels, and energy independence."

E85 is $2.99 in our area and E10 is $3.48 making it an excellent fuel choice!
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