Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    2:20 AM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: All Things Ethanol > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Is the thirst for ethanol leading to BT reistant rootworm? Back to Topics
Shockjock1961

Champion Author
Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 9:26:24 AM

So much for ethanol being "good" for the environment. Corn farmers are not rotating their crops in order to cash in on the high price of corn created by the huge demand for corn the ethanol industry has created. The result? BT resistant rootworm and the increasing need to use toxic pesticides in the corn field in order to control them. So now the consumer has not only to contend with toxic "Frakenfood", but "Frakenfood" that has to be sprayed with more toxins...
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 16, 2013 8:13:31 AM

Who's hocky?
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,147
Points:2,803,245
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jul 15, 2013 9:18:49 PM

hocky is full of hit
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 15, 2013 8:57:31 AM

"As soon as the more modern EVs are adopted"

I do see EV's as generally adopted any time soon. Being able to only go a few miles from home kind of makes them impractical...
Profile Pic
evowner
Champion Author Salem

Posts:5,108
Points:964,055
Joined:May 2012
Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 12:31:06 PM

Ethanol is transitional fuel to use in ICE powered cars. As soon as the more modern EVs are adopted, the ethanol market can replace all of the smaller fossil fuel needed by older cars.
Profile Pic
ggg452
Champion Author Manitoba

Posts:4,230
Points:944,870
Joined:May 2012
Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 10:59:00 AM

corn is for food not fuel....
Profile Pic
FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

Posts:883
Points:36,610
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 10:25:44 AM

borsht has never heard of brewer's grains. Perhaps if people educated themselves on a topic before they spout off, they wouldn't look stupid.
Profile Pic
bmsgolf
Champion Author Amarillo

Posts:4,615
Points:1,052,815
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Jul 13, 2013 2:32:53 PM

Who knows
Profile Pic
smugutu1234
Champion Author Tallahassee

Posts:2,345
Points:558,295
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Jul 13, 2013 7:35:28 AM

All about money.
Profile Pic
borsht
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:3,339
Points:793,070
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Jul 13, 2013 1:41:44 AM

The argument that sweet corn is not the corn used for ethanol is a straw man argument, intended to divert from the argument that growing corn for ethanol does raise significantly the cost for animal feed.

But if you are a vegan, I guess it is a reasonable point. But for us meat eaters, chesse eaters and milk drinkers they are running the price of beef, and animal products through the ceiling.
The corn used for animal feed, is from the same ground that is producing corn for car fuel..
Profile Pic
rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

Posts:25,342
Points:3,832,775
Joined:Oct 2002
Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 10:26:00 PM

In actual fact the EU is trying to streamline and standardize the scientific approval methods for GM foods, and the Commission has recognized some bans have not been scientific, but political.
The process is ongoing, and Canada is dealing with it as well as the US.
In 2006, the WTO decreed in a complaint brought by the U.S., Canada and Argentina that the EU had violated its WTO obligations by creating "undue delays" in the approval of genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
This is from 2011, but the European Commission has been hashing this out for 20 years:
Questions and answers on the evaluation of the European Union's GMO legislation

The biggest concern now appears to be identifying and labeling GMOs.


[Edited by: rumbleseat at 7/12/2013 10:27:14 PM EST]
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,147
Points:2,803,245
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 1:59:27 PM

tdioiler says "if there were 15 cars of toxic pesticides or other dangerous liquids then death toll would have been much greater!"
By other dangerous liquids, do you mean gasoline? Sounds like you are trying to out shock the Shockjock!
Profile Pic
tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

Posts:1,014
Points:731,500
Joined:Jul 2011
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 10:53:18 PM

and potential affects of GMO and excess use of pesticides and herbicides are being mixed into our food stock and land where future crops are grown. That is a direct undesirable to so idiot who didn't set the brakes properly.

No if there were 15 cars of toxic pesticides or other dangerous liquids then death toll would have been much greater!
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,147
Points:2,803,245
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 6:02:16 PM

I'm reisting the urge to repond.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 4:57:41 PM

Oh, and if you think Sweet Corn is not genetically modified or BT resistant rootworm is not going effect the modified corn it, think again...

To protect sweet corn from damaging worms, the naturally-occurring protein found in Bacillus thuringiensis or Bt is built into the seed genetics.

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 7/11/2013 4:59:10 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 3:10:05 PM

"Some people don't realize that #2 field corn grown for biorefining and animal feed is not the same as sweet corn grown for human consumption.

Any anti-ethanol argument founded on this misunderstanding is fatally flawed."

It's the same corn used for animal feed and food stuffs. That's the reason Europe is trying to ban the importation of American corn, because of it's GMO makeup, and the reason Monsanto is spending huge sums of money to keep the government from requiring food which contains GMO components from being labled as such...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 7/11/2013 3:11:48 PM EST]
Profile Pic
darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

Posts:457
Points:6,860
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 11:56:50 AM

Some people don't realize that #2 field corn grown for biorefining and animal feed is not the same as sweet corn grown for human consumption.

Any anti-ethanol argument founded on this misunderstanding is fatally flawed.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 10:33:25 AM

"Many, many farmers grew corn on corn BEFORE the ethanol days."

Sure, but back before ethanol minimum usage mandates GMO corn was not required to be used to keep up with demand...

"This has been going on for decades so I'm thinking ethanol doesn't have much if anything to do with it"

It sure does, as illustrated above...

"sounds like they want that corn to be planted on every square inch every year anyway."

Really? Who says that?

Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 10:30:34 AM

"The Defenders of Oil are worried that worms are hurting the environment."

Again, wrong answer. I'm worried about the fact that GMO corn has to be used in order to increase the corn yields enough that there is no shortages due to the high demand placed upon it by ethanol production. It further worries me that not only does these toxic frakenfoods are infiltrating the food supply, but they now have to be doused with even more toxins. Simple enough concept actually.
Profile Pic
FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

Posts:883
Points:36,610
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 8:26:32 PM

Many, many farmers grew corn on corn BEFORE the ethanol days. This has been going on for decades so I'm thinking ethanol doesn't have much if anything to do with it. Besides, the anti-ethanol crowd is always crying about how their corn is being taken away; sounds like they want that corn to be planted on every square inch every year anyway.
Profile Pic
darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

Posts:457
Points:6,860
Joined:May 2013
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 4:52:29 PM

The Defenders of Oil are worried that worms are hurting the environment. Meanwhile, trains full of crude oil slam into small towns, oil rigs burst and bubble in the ocean, pipelines ooze into water tables, and exhaust fumes full of carcinogens belch out of 200 million cars daily. Anytime anyone affiliated with oil talks about what's good for the environment I lol.
Profile Pic
borsht
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:3,339
Points:793,070
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 10:44:27 AM

SilverStreaker doesn't address nor dispute any of the claims of the article; but rather just shoots it's credibility because the author is from Houston, TX.
The guy seems to be very pro ethanol, he is supporting the work of a chemical company, Celanese, which evidently has a process to make very low cost ethanol. His objection is to the absurdity of making ethanol from corn.
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,147
Points:2,803,245
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 12:16:24 AM

borsht says "A writer at Forbes" Here's his credentials: "I'm based in Houston, Texas. Energy capital of the world"
Yes, one level above a blogger.
Profile Pic
borsht
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:3,339
Points:793,070
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 8:01:24 PM

A writer at Forbes is also questioning the wisdom of corn ethanol.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/03/ethanol-minus-the-corn-it-could-fuel-america-if-it-werent-illegal/2/

How A Dumb Law Blocks A Great Way To Fuel America

Sterin figures Celanese can make ethanol for a cash cost of only $1.50 a gallon. Capital costs, starting with $200 million for the two new plants,
will add some 25 cents a gallon. While the diluted ethanol that’s blended into gasoline sells for $2.30 a gallon today, the ­concentrated industrial
ethanol that Celanese will make goes for closer to $3. That paves the way for big profits selling to makers of paints, pharmaceuticals and textiles,
says Hassan Ahmed, analyst with Alembic Global Advisors. He expects Celanese to be making 300 million gallons a year by 2016, building a $1 billion
business with net income of $250 million. Last year it earned $600 million on $6.8 billion in revenues.

What if Washington doesn’t get aboard? No matter, says Sterin. China sees ethanol as a vital fuel, but with so many mouths to feed it
can’t waste farmland growing it. Celanese initially planned to build a 60-million-gallon-per-year ethanol addition at its Nanjing complex,
but when Beijing issued final permits in March it was for an 80-million-gallon plant. (The Texas plant, in contrast, will do fewer than 6 million gallons.)
Even so, he’s hoping politicians will at least give Celanese a shot at competing in America. “We don’t need subsidies,” says Sterin. “We’re ready to go.”

Indeed common sense says that corn alcohol is a dumb solution for fuel.
It is just a boondoggle farm subsidy.

Profile Pic
jacksfan
Champion Author Lincoln

Posts:2,572
Points:1,272,615
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 4:37:17 PM

Toxic Frankenfood? You've never been one to let sound science get in the way of your extremist agenda, now have you shocky?
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,798
Points:2,793,665
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 10:45:36 AM

"So much for backing up your claims with reliable sources"

Farmers themselves may have accelerated the development of rootworm resistance. A decade ago most farmers alternated corn in a particular field with soybeans or some other crop -- a proven strategy for containing the pest. But with grain prices high and corn yielding big profits, a growing number of farmers plant corn in the same field year after year. That's something Steven Bradbury, director of the EPA's Office of Pesticide Programs, said he saw last week when he visited rootworm hotspots in Iowa and Nebraska. "Growers, especially in high population areas where there's many years of continuous corn, are noticing increasing challenges in controlling the corn rootworm beetles," Bradbury said.

Syngenta, one of the world’s largest pesticide makers, reported that sales of its major soil insecticide for corn, which is applied at planting time, more than doubled in 2012. Chief Financial Officer John Ramsay attributed the growth to “increased grower awareness” of rootworm resistance in the U.S. Insecticide sales in the first quarter climbed 5% to $480 million.
Profile Pic
ScottAdams5
Champion Author New York

Posts:2,157
Points:698,360
Joined:Jan 2012
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 10:32:26 AM

Dontcha just love liberal/socialist/Democrats who can never leave well enough alone?!
Profile Pic
SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:14,147
Points:2,803,245
Joined:Mar 2006
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 10:11:50 AM

So much for backing up your claims with reliable sources. Just throw out a lot of allegations and see if you can scare people into believing your claims....
Post a reply Back to Topics