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Hannie59

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Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 8, 2013 2:55:12 PM

Petroleum represents the most harmful source of transportation fuel while renewable fuels such as ethanol represent the safest. Recent crude oil spills have killed fish, animals, and plant life. Ethanol, on the other hand, is derived from plant life and ethanol coproducts are fed to fish and livestock. At the same time ethanol’s lifecycle greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and production efficiencies are dramatically improving, extracting and processing crude oil into gasoline is becoming more expensive, inefficient, and destructive to the environment based on what is being done in the tar sands. This oil is poor quality and difficult to refine, causing incredible spikes in the prices of gasoline as refining the fuel is taking more energy and time to accomplish.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 10:26:21 PM

Guess we have a deal. Alrighty then :)
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 9:20:41 PM

I'm fine with no posts for a month, I am starting a couple weeks of vacation followed by some big work issues when I get back so that would be no problem.

I am in no way saying ethanol will not be a part of the US's energy future, but the reality is the vast majority of people don't care about all of the attributes of ethanol and the short comings of gas. They just don't. They care about price. They care about availability. We have recently passed a threshold in that a few weeks ago we actually produced more domestic oil than we imported. At some point prices will come down a little and even more support will fall to the oil side. The reality I have always looked at in most instances is follow the money. If you do, then yes oil tells lies to protect their market share, but ethanol tailors it's story as well. The RFA fights for what they can get in terms of the mandates to get and keep their foot in the door. They oppose ethanol imports to keep their members in control of the US ethanol market. You and others here praise the fact that ethanol is cleaner, sustainable, and allows energy independence when in reality the RFA just wants to make as much money for the members as possible. They have succeeded because the demand for corn is up and prices are up.

But anyway no posts for a month, done, see you in July!
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 7:42:48 AM

Two facts mentioned by brerrabbitTX are that people don't care all that much about this stuff and that the negativity is coming from ethanol camp and oil camp. Put those two together and you end up with obscurity of truth.
So if you look at the claims, you have to ask where the negativity began, and which negative statements are TRUE and which are BELIEVED true because of how loud the source is. Oil has the most money, and if they weren't worried about losing the monopoly, they wouldn't be spending soooo much on a smear campaign that THEY started.

I too wonder why I take time to post here.

brerrabbitTX, it would make many people who don't like ethanol, and probably some that love ethanol as well, happy if I quit posting for a month. I am long winded at the keyboard. I will if you will LOL! Let's make a deal 1 month!


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/10/2013 7:47:10 AM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 7:23:46 AM

The RFA is not catching up in the bull department. They are not lying. They have just started pointing OUT the fact that they have been slandered. All the "bull" is originating from one side. Negativity now from both.

You are correct in the fact that most could care less. As long as they can get from point A to B and afford to, all is cool. Looking beyond today, if they really cared, they'd see choices as an important part of this.

And if brerrabbittx was right, then we never would seen the damning internal memo that was posted by another member in regards to higher blending and oil's strategy. And why is the source of all the negativity the American Petroleum Institute, groups funded by them, food companies, etc? All RFA studies show why ethanol is good. All studies funded claim ethanol is horrible. No benefits of gasoline are ever mentioned.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/10/2013 7:30:17 AM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 9, 2013 10:37:42 PM

I guess the most ironic point of all this long line of postings that Hannie continues to feed everyday is that he hates big oil and the propaganda he claims they are slinging so much of everyday that he is totally willing to let the ethanol backers and the RFA sling all the bull they want because they are just catching up in the lying game to big oil. I find further irony in the fact that he as well as myself waste so much time on this board when the reality is so few read it or even care about it.

I guess the last and biggest piece of irony in the whole situation is that somehow, someway Hannie, gamechanger, and the other believers here really, honestly think that if or when ethanol makes the next great leap in terms of usage that big oil won't be there as a major participant in the industry. I have said this before and will say it again. I have workrd in the industry for 31 years and can tell you that there are rooms full of very smart people that are well funded by oil companies sitting around monitoring everything that happens in the fuel business, and if you think for one minute they will advocate oil and oil products so hard and long that they miss the alternative fuel band wagon in favor or an oil only approach, then your nuts. They have the money, the connections etc. If in the end your real beef, as it seems it is with Hannie due to how much he hates big oil and their propaganda then if ethanol does grow he may be disappointed when the big oil companies are the ones selling the product.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 9, 2013 12:30:39 PM

borsht, if you are thinking that showmanship is not painting the proper picture, then welcome to the world of those who support ethanol.

I do not want gasoline banned, to disappear, or otherwise. The extent to which people have been lead to believe that there is nothing good about ethanol is staggering, and my goal is to reverse that. It hasn't worked to JUST point out the positives of ethanol because everywhere you look you see and hear how bad it is. Now if these things were true, well then yeah. But this rhetoric is all wrong, therefore, the need to point out what the oil companies are doing, covering up, and lying about is paramount. Truly, if facts were put up : Positives of oil vs. Ethanol and the slander was gone, the ideal scenario would be truly market driven.

We need fuel choice. Reverse the scenario 180 degrees for a second:

If we had E-85 dominating, and the ethanol producers were waging a bogus campaign of misinformation, then lobbied (and bought) the government, to all out BAN any gasoline beyond 15%, they manipulating the markets and trying to control the sale of an alernative blend, say G-85 (Gas-85). If this scenario were true, the opposite of what we actually have NOW, well that would be bad too.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/9/2013 12:35:52 PM EST]
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borsht
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Message Posted: Jun 9, 2013 11:44:49 AM

Hannie said” Petroleum represents the most harmful source of transportation fuel while renewable fuels such as ethanol represent the safest.”
You keep blasting petroleum, Yet you use it, you are burning 15% petroleum,
How can you justify using this harmful stuff?
It must be transported, Everyone is exposed to it, in one form or another, according to you the most harmful fuel!!
The answer, you are good at showmanship, There is no way we can convert to 100% ethanol or biofuel. So, don't you think we are going to have to live with it?
Are you suggesting that the safest fuel for airplanes would be E85? or as this post points out how unsafe petrol is, airplanes should be burning E100.
This is more Bovine Scatology. You blast the Oil industry for not telling the whole story, but you ethanol salesmen are much worse with the facts and sweeping the issue with a very wide brust.
Last time I checked, Airplanes are a part of the the transportation ecoonomy.

[Edited by: borsht at 6/9/2013 11:46:49 AM EST]
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