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Author Topic: All they have left is the lie Back to Topics
Hannie59

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Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:45:46 AM

All the oil companies have left to maintain their monopoly. And it's not even true.

EPA and other organizations have tested E-30 in cars of the last 10 model years, since 2001. Many others have run E-30 for over 100,000 miles in non FFVs. Nobody knows it.

They know the investment people put into their vehicles, and made a concsious, strategic decision to play to this up to emotion. Do not believe it.

If everyone in America put two gallons of E-85 in with every fill up, and the rest E-10, there would be not a single issue in hundreds of millions of cars. Only issue would be a huge blow to companies that have been screwing you over for a century. Any problem has nothing to do with the E-85, because there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles in repair shops every day. They have been using gasoline all along.

You have a choice. You can try alternatives that you have been falsely scared away from up to this point. Or you can try it for yourself and know the truth.

A vehicle is not a boat nor a lawnmower. And as long as your vehicle does not sit idle for more than a month between uses, ethanol has no effect on it. And how many people use their cars less than that?

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/5/2013 8:50:26 AM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 9:44:53 AM

And just what information is inaccurate, dassfg?
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dassfg
Champion Author Fort Worth

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 9:34:09 AM

Your information is inaccurate. Quit repeating the party line for the E-85 crowd. Read and learn.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 7:33:30 AM

"Worst idea ever concocted! All this does is benefit corn farmers."

You would prefer more benefit go to foreign oil producers? In round numbers, the US consumes 150 billion gallons of transportation fuel, annually. Ethanol production is 15 billion gallons of that total. That quantity of ethanol produces a downward pressure on retail fuel price. That is a good thing for anyone buying fuel, whether it's ethanol or gasoline.

"We all have to eat. Corn and soybeans are the basis of our food supply. Gas may go down, but the price of food will go up. "

A pesky fact escapes you. Regardless of the product, grain represents a very small percentage of the retail food dollar. Take a product like corn flakes. A 12 ounce box contains less than 3 cents of corn, yet sells for $2 to $5. We are talking 2 to 4% component cost. That means a increase of corn price of several hundred percent will not significantly affect your food dollar.

Aside from that, the US is a surplus producer of grain. We produce more than we can use, even with 15 billion gallons of ethanol being produced, annually.

"Then, the only folks happy will be the "Global Warming" crowd. These are the people who would like to see us with horses and buggies again. "

You will be on a horse sooner with a gasoline oligopoly, than with a robust ethanol and gasoline market.

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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2013 9:40:49 PM

Physical ethanol price in Chicago closed Friday at $2.4420. That was the spot price close. Prices for third quarter ethanol (July- September) are up 5 to seven cents a gallon with fourth quarter prices expected to come down due to a good planting season.
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phinum
Rookie Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2013 5:20:42 PM

Worst idea ever concocted! All this does is benefit corn farmers. We all have to eat. Corn and soybeans are the basis of our food supply. Gas may go down, but the price of food will go up. Then, prices will go back up. Why? because we must have it. Then, the only folks happy will be the "Global Warming" crowd. These are the people who would like to see us with horses and buggies again.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2013 10:15:48 AM

tdioiler, it's down to 2.37 in that range, in some parts of your state! Wish I was so lucky here!
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2013 10:27:19 PM

Goldseeker, I want to visit your neighborhood! Lowest price I've seen for E-85 is $2.89! DAng, know I know why you like the stuff so much. And to think I thought you were just drinking it!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 16, 2013 6:21:04 AM

"Corn is currently trading for around $8/bushel. That should place the cost of production of one gallon of E85 right around $3.20-$3.30. Right now the average U.S. E85 Cost is $3.23/gallon. (Cheapest in Texas is $2.87"

Typical mis-information that the anti-ethanol crowd continues to post.

Corn futures are now at $6.55 a long ways from $8.00. So if you did the math cost would be down around $2.30. Factor in the value of corn oil and ddgs and the figure gets much lower. That is why some stations can now offer E85 at $1.99.

[Edited by: goldseeker at 6/16/2013 6:22:09 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 15, 2013 11:32:17 PM

Well said Hannie!
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 8:49:26 PM

"and reducing the demand for corn."
Which would also reduce the supply of corn as farmers switched to growing other crops they can sell. So what is the point you think you are making?
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FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 6:41:45 PM

oz likes reducing the demand for corn??? WTF? Maybe you should give some consideration to the demand side of the equation for once and promote ideas that reduce overpopulation.
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ozarkcommuter
Champion Author Arkansas

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 3:07:34 PM

But I like getting the MPG and reducing the demand for corn.
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96EASYRIDER
Veteran Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jun 9, 2013 7:42:12 PM

My Harley Davidson manual specifically state not to use the corn gas. My Yamaha manual also specifically stated not to use the corn gas. My neighbor's lawnmower died from using the corn gas. The corn gas using work vehicles at work spends more time in the shop than out on the road.

Therefore, I will refrain from using the corn gas in any of my vehicles.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 8, 2013 1:30:29 PM

WE0H, you are right actually, phase seperation occure in anything that contains petroluem (E-0, E-10, E-85. And when storage conditions are ideal, it doesn't occur.

James, I figure ticking Nessie off is the least of my worries as I now have the largest monopoly in the world angry with me for accusing them of intentionally lying to the public and being right in my accusation.

See alot of outcry about wanting a level playing field (read: no RFS) when in reality, and comparison of anything is invalid when one side thinks it's OK to base their entire industry on lies, manufacture whatever studies they want, and that they deserve a monopoly regardless of all the positives of any potential alternative.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/8/2013 1:31:32 PM EST]
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WE0H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 7:15:33 PM

I put my car away last fall and it is still parked with a full tank of E85. It hasn't melted on the garage floor, the fuel lines are still there, it will fire up just fine when I do take it out for this season 8-) I just ordered connectors to allow me to install two more E85 converters in a couple of our other cars. They will run it just fine as they have been running blends for a few years with zero issues. There will always be E85 haters and idiots that believe everything they read on the InterWeb ;-) After-all, if it is on the InterWeb it has to be right ;-)


[Edited by: WE0H at 6/6/2013 7:17:15 PM EST]
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PhilnTX
All-Star Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 6:03:17 PM

Corn is currently trading for around $8/bushel. That should place the cost of production of one gallon of E85 right around $3.20-$3.30. Right now the average U.S. E85 Cost is $3.23/gallon. (Cheapest in Texas is $2.87

With every $1 reduction in corn costs, the production cost of E85 goes down 35 cents.

My truck gets 25% less mileage but more power than when I use 87 octane at (in Texas) $3.32 a gallon.

Right now, I don't have much incentive to use E85. The nearest station that sells it is about 20 miles out of my normal path.
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James48843
Veteran Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 10:16:58 AM

"....Loch Ness Monster ...."
What? Huh?

What do you mean by dissing' Nessi?

She's gonna be mad at you....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qZYT0Oy1l94/UUTsDU6320I/AAAAAAAAA00/f9hgLUQCSGY/s1600/Here-s-Nessie-loch-ness-monster-2245490-1600-1200.jpg

[Edited by: James48843 at 6/6/2013 10:20:22 AM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 9:38:26 AM

Nor will I James.

If you want a car that's more so ready for whatever the future brings, as opposed to one that can only use one fuel, you'll buy flex fuel.

But be preared to hear alot of smack. Was talking to a someone who saw someone with an impala FFV that was filling up with unleaded... The clueless owner said "Uh.. well, I was told that if I ust that e85 stuff, my engine will last only half as long as if I use gas". How is this misconception even possible?

This is the kind of information being forced down the public's throat from the oil machine. You intentionally promote lies, and have your corporate goal to be that people believing untruths is the way to continue your business?????

How could anyone possibly believe this damage BS, even if you are just a regular consumer???? This is akin to believing the world is flat, and that the Loch Ness Monster is real!


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/6/2013 9:43:55 AM EST]
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James48843
Veteran Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 9:31:07 AM

I drive E85 in my Flex-Fuel Chevy Impala.

Before that, I drove a Flex-Fuel Dodge Stratus.

I will NEVER buy a non-Flex-fuel car again. Ever. There are over 3,050 stations that sell E85 today from coast to coast. More are being added every month.

You can find them on the map here:
http://e85prices.com

[Edited by: James48843 at 6/6/2013 9:32:56 AM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 2:49:28 AM

borscht, talk about hijacking a topic and running away with it. SS and whiskey are actually right, and what I said is rare even if you go longer than what I said. Let's not just ignore darwinfinch's post, it tells it all. It reveals what I have been saying all along. The truth has been hidden and distorted. Deliberately.

Not only will putting a few gallons of e85 in at every fill up not harm anything, but your car will run better. It's actually good for your engine. Better yet, use a blender pump and try e15, e20 or e30. if you have an FDA, use e85. I know of fleets of impala a that have run each over 200,000 all on e85 and had still going. Engines are outlasting the transmissions!

The oil companies KNOW it. You, them, and many others that they have bought, are all lying. LOOK AT THE MEMO. Look at Brazil. All gas is 25 percent. Look at how long e10 has been around. Get over yourselves and wake up. How long are you going to believe the lie. Ethanol is fine for your car, your fuel system, and its a good choice.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/6/2013 2:55:32 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:14:00 AM

borsht asks "What do you do when you're away from home for over a month?"
Nothing. I few years ago, I took a month long trip and left my non-FFV 2000 Ford Windstar with 50% ethanol in the tank. It started up and ran fine, as did my lawnmower with E10. I have left E10 fuel in my lawnmower over the winter on a few occasions and have never had problems.

What's your experience with ethanol blends, borsht? Likely none, so why do you feel obliged to spread rumors and insinuations about a product that you haven't even had significant experience with?
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:11:53 AM

My 200 was ok this winter even though it sat for weeks at a time this winter while I drove my Jeep. How do people deal with gas that has gummed up jn their fuel tanks?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 9:46:24 PM

What do you do when you're away from home for over a month?
Drain your complete fuel system? It's not good to let it sit bone dry either.
there are a lot of snow birds out there.
what do you do with emergency power generators. If you leave them partially full, they absorb moisture in the fuel.
You can use stabilizers in R10 so it doesn't cross link.
but how do you keep the water out of gasohol.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 2:07:34 PM

darwinfinch, "presumably"? If I had 5 million dollars in my hand, I'd bet you're right about what PO means in that memo ;)

They want the myth, and they want ostrich like behavior, heads in the sand, when it comes to PO.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/5/2013 2:11:53 PM EST]
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 10:48:29 AM

Insightful excerpt from a leaked industry memo. "PO" in the last paragraph presumably refers to "public opinion".

--

[...] Currently, the average driver's unwillingness to experiment with his gas tank works to our advantage. However, as higher [biofuel] blends are offered to the public, the price discount will become irresistible. Previously conservative consumers will perform escalating trial runs in their own vehicles.

A private study commissioned in 2012 reported that the average vehicle owner could establish full confidence in an "alternative fuel" in as few as 5 tanks, provided that the price was lower and no mechanical incidents had resulted from the switch. This number is even lower for leased vehicles.

Clearly, wide availability of higher blends will represent an irreversible shift against our efforts. Present goals aim to prevent this by maintaining a semi-regulated ceiling of 10% [now 15%] ethanol in all markets.

We look to [company name removed] to establish future plans for the possibility that this ceiling may not hold. Given that a mass trial run of E15 or E30 will not support our position, we must ramp up efforts to hold PO behind the "red line" by appealing to "mechanic phobia", by circulating authoritative messaging, and by continuing to marginalize fuel experimentalism.

[...]
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