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Author Topic: Stations Want E-15... Oil Companies Holding Back Back to Topics
darwinfinch

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Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 3:08:52 PM

It happened in the 1930s and it's happening again... oil companies are dragging every possible heel in the push toward clean renewable fuel.

In this article, the owners of several gas stations plea with their master oil brands to send E15 upon consumer demand:

/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306040075&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

(Sorry, I don't know how to post actual links here.)
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 1:34:31 AM

"Totally understand the idea that ethanol has to be given a chance, but does that chance mean that consumers are not free to make their own decisions?"

And since when are consumers given the choice to choose from a toxic concoction that is filled with benzene, toluene and xylene?
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 12:34:39 PM

Totally understand the idea that ethanol has to be given a chance, but does that chance mean that consummers are not free to make their own decisions? That is a lot of what ethanol mandates and rules are based on. The required use of ethanol. Wind, solar, yeah the government supports them and supports them more than what you call subsidies to the oil companies (that's a whole other discussion that has been played out before here). As far as ethanol goes there is still a lot of money available to grow it's use. Look at what individual states will do to pay for blending pumps and ethanol tanks to make higher blends. Look at the RFA. It's mandates says that ethanol producers have a guareenteed market share that rises each year. That is in the most classic definition a subsidy.

There is also the fact that US ethanol producers along with the RFA bemoan the use of imported ethanol because it displaces American made ethanol. THey also right off any growth of CNG r LNG because it has a tie to big oil. Theses are all viable alternatives that the RFA dismisses out of hand because they are not American corn ethanol. At the end of the day posters here that advocate ethanol usage do it for the right reasons. Sustainability, cleaner fuel, etc, but the reality is that the group that they hitch their wagon to does not have the same noble reasoning in mind. They do it because they get paid to do it and want to see economic of ethanol because it will line their pockets. Simply put that is why I question half of the statements the RFA makes. If you think they are noble and do not stoop to many of the practices you acuse big oil of stooping to then you are reading all the material. They lie, spin and bend the truth to fit their story as well as anyone.

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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 12:30:58 PM

brerrabbitTX said "And let's not take the easy route and just blame it on media smears by big oil, because those efforts cut both ways across the discussion."

Not true. Just THIS year did an organization start fighting back against YEARS of intentional misinformation. Name of the organization is Fuels America.

Ethanol has been the victimim of deliberate smears. But they started strictly touting the benefits of the fuel. Oil has so much money they have bought off everyone but the EPA. They bought the media by demanding the publish their bogus studies or they wouldn't advertise! All while gouging gas prices with every excuse in the book! They even bought off AAA, a bastard of an organization that has no credibility now that they have backed a lie.

The american people will soon realize that ethanol is a great fuel despite the lies about engine damage. The american public has been duped. They will realize that they must stop the oil gravy train and its stranglehold on our freedoms. Today, there is no better way than ethanol to stop this stranglehold.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/5/2013 12:34:32 PM EST]
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 10:29:16 AM

RE: "Can ethanol stand on it's own merits structurally and finacially without all of the mandates?"

Literally (not virtually) every energy source in our country has gone through a "training wheels" phase in which it was supported by the government. Nuclear, coal, natural gas, oil, solar power, wind... Each is given a shot at playing a part in our energy future. This is a smart strategy because it keeps us nimble and diverse.

Before 2011, the ethanol industry received actual subsidies. That is no longer true. The biorefining industry is now able to ride on its own, down the sidewalk over bumps and sticks with Dad cheering in the distance. The training wheels are gone. The economics work. Consumers want it. Automakers are quickly embracing it. Myths are popping like balloons.

The problem is that ethanol is taking off amidst the overwhelming thunder of a Harley wolf pack run by the oil industry, and this wolf pack doesn't want nimble diversity. When they see a kid pedaling down the freeway they run it over like a tom cat eats kittens. Talk about choice all you want, the oil industry has a very comfortable position. They have all the money, all the government insiders, all the infrastructure... and heck, they even still have their training wheels on their hogs! (Oil industry still receives billions in actual subsidies.) Any alternative needs some shielding from this to have any chance. This is the entire point of the RFS... not to serve as training wheels, but as the hovering Dad-hands just behind the seat.

In short, just because a thing is fragile in its infancy doesn't make it useless. In fact, it's often the opposite with all beautiful and helpful things. We are all born naked and unable to walk or feed ourselves... but we grow up, mature, and contribute in a meaningful way... if cared for properly.

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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:58:46 AM

For the most part I am seen around here as more of a big oil supporter but in reality I am not really. I have no issues with ethanol being used as a fuel source. I do however like to see full disclosure when dealing with the facts about ethanol and gasoline. I ask questions that in the end focus more on the economics of fuels than the idea of what is "better". I do this because in the end the vast majority of the issues we face as a nation are challenged by the amount of financial resources we can muster to address the issues. Fuel costs are no different. For our economy to grow and prosper we certainly need to control those costs. Can ethanol do that? I am not sure given the fact that there are so many infrastructure costs involved with transition and how much ethanol can we actually produce, etc. I am not sure what the numbers are so I am still unsure of the overall impact.

This however I do know. As Americans we advocate choice and many here that support ethanol claim they favor choice as well. However ethanol and people here also advocate that the government should mandate that all cars and trucks be produced as flex fuel vehicles, they support the RFA, the support the abrogation of branded fuels contracts so dealers can sell higher than e-10 blends.

On an on it goes and if you think about all of these issues really say, "you have no choice, you will do what is mandated".

Ethanol may be a great solution to our future fueling needs, or it may be a partial solution, or one day it may not even be included in the discussion. We cannot be sure, but when looking in from the outside one thing stands out. Can ethanol stand on it's own merits structurally and finacially without all of the mandates?

And let's not take the easy route and just blame it on media smears by big oil, because those efforts cut both ways across the discussion.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:24:48 AM

Oil companies are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Fracking and tar sands extraction requires the utmost technology we have and is very damaging to the planet.

Ethanol is sunlight, carbon dioxide, and water and is fully renewable. It will never run out.

And it burns much cleaner. Well to wheel energy input for what you get is much less with gasoline than ethanol.

Think about that. When the EPA was doing their extensive testing which proved that E-15 was good for your car, a little known fact was that they were also testing E-30, and that also proved to be fine for all cars. E-30.

Alcohol in your gas, the more there is, the longer your engine will last. But there is MASSIVE misinformation that would lead you to believe otherwise. Be informed. Know the facts. Use E-30 and your car will last longer.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/5/2013 8:27:42 AM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 4:16:35 AM

You need 10,000 points before you can use the "insert link" function. Until then, the only way you can actually post a link is to post something others have to modify slightly. In most forums, that involves putting brackets.
Example:
www(.)whatistheaddress(.)com
However posting gas prices and clicking on articles in addition to posting can get you to that 10,000 point mark in short order.
If nobody else has said it, welcome to GasBuddy.
If somebody else has said it, I say it again.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 2:55:58 AM

Actually they have been holding back on any competition for decades. Even sued some out of existence.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 4:48:06 PM

I am not certain on this...but something tells me I had to have like 100 posts before I cuold put a link into one.

So, darwinfinch, please continue your posts :)
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 4:43:27 PM

darwinfinch, copy and paste the entire URL. Sometimes you have to break it into pieces to make it all show up.
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