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Author Topic: Darn, that nasty ole ethanol. Back to Topics
goldseeker

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West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 4:01:25 AM

Just fired my up my ride mower this past weekend. In fact it fired right up. It had set for 6 months with a partial tank of e10. I even topped the tank off with e10 that had been stored in a gas can for several months.

Guess what? No phase separation, no degraded fuel line, and no corrosion.

Should I be disappointed? That nasty ole ethanol did not do what it was suppose to.

Guess those armchair experts were wrong again.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2015 8:40:55 AM

Not sure where I got the word ethnology.
That darn, nasty ol' ethanol must have got to my brain cells.
And, I don't drink it!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2015 5:21:36 AM

Frost today. Darn, that nasty ole ethanol!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 2:06:14 AM

180,000 miles on the same set of spark plugs. Darn that nasty ole ethanol!
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 8:56:23 PM

Gotta watch those ignition switches. Darn, nasty ol' ethnology did it again.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 12:25:41 PM

Suzuki recalls 2 million vehicles for smoking ignition switch

Darn, nasty ole ethanol keeps corroding the ignition switches!
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 8:57:02 AM

Don't use ethanol in your lawn mowers. That stuff attracts moisture which just makes the grass grow even more.

Darn that nasty ole ethanol.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 12:19:49 AM

Move to Iowa and you can buy no lead gas.
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AH_1_Pilot
Rookie Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 11:14:36 AM

GB ought to have an option for us to indicate if a station sells "Straight"/"Non-ethanol" gas. I know some stations do.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 9:24:08 PM

I mowed my yard last Friday first time this spring. Grass has regrown already. It must be the fumes from my gasohol powered mower. Darn ol' ethanol!
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 8:39:56 AM

That nasty ol' ethanol did it again. Just plain a bad actor!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 4:37:22 AM

"Hate to break it to you but I worked on lawn machines and yes ethanol brings water from the air. Also eats away hoses. "

I hate to break it to you. You simply do not have a clue. I also worked on lawn machines and ethanol does not bring water from the air in a sealed tank, nor does it eat hoses.

Polymer chemists will uphold my statement. Polymer chemists design hoses and elastomers, and they are not fools.
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salvo222
Rookie Author Scranton

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 12:40:02 AM

Hate to break it to you but I worked on lawn machines and yes ethanol brings water from the air. Also eats away hoses.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2015 8:41:54 PM

Banjoe, that is why it is so noisy. Muffler bearings are rusty from ethanol residue.darn ethanol.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 2:50:37 AM

I have been using E-10 fuel for 25 years with no problems on any lawn/power equipment, boats, inboard and outboard motors, and all different vehicles. I just can't see why anybody would be making claims that e-10 destorys engines and the such.
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YELLOWDOGLAS
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 9:58:25 AM

Seems odd any gas would go bad
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 9:56:45 AM

Most small and auto engine manufacturers void warranty for using E-85
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 9:30:26 AM

stickyvalves - I'm very surprised to hear that the wheels survived that evil stuff.

I expect your muffler bearings have been completely wasted by that darn nasty ole ethanol though.
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Floridaman2013
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 9:11:02 AM

I have been using E-10 fuel for 20 years with no problems on any lawn/power equipment, boats, inboard and outboard motors, and all different vehicles. I just can't see why anybody would be making claims that e-10 destorys engines and the such.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 7:16:12 AM

And the wheels are still round!! Good ol' ethanol preservative!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 3:41:42 AM

"You are lucky with no damage or degraded operation."

Sheesh! Some folks just do not have a clue.
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MikeCapeCoral
Champion Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 12:26:35 AM

You are lucky with no damage or degraded operation.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2015 9:40:40 PM

I rn my snow blower today just to warm it up. Probably will rust now since it has that darn ol' ethanol in its tank.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2015 9:39:15 PM

Lawn mower started and made noise. Something wrong.mthe ethanol did not ruin it. I must have left the tank too full.
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jb107
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2015 9:15:57 AM

No way.
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2015 7:40:56 AM

stickyvalves - you left ethanol in your lawnmower over winter? Everything will now be melted and you will be needing a new blade and wheels.

Darn that nasty ole ethanol.
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giwan
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2015 2:12:54 PM

this stuff still around?
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Sylviak
Veteran Author Vancouver

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2015 2:09:44 PM

Nissan gets 25 mpg in town on 10% gasohol
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Sylviak
Veteran Author Vancouver

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2015 2:07:35 PM

I used 10% gasohol in my Toyota for 20 years, never an engine issue. Finally it was traded away when a 2010 Nissan was given to me. It will get 10% gasohol too.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2015 1:51:24 PM

Gonna check the lawn mower tonite. I left gasohol in it last fall. Suppose the tank has a hole in it now. Darn ol' ethanol probably ate a hole in it.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2015 5:47:25 PM

Think I will get my snow blower out again just to agitate the neighbors. Darn ol' ethanol caused all the snow to melt! Nutin' left to blow.
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skymaster337p
Rookie Author Anchorage

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2015 1:36:00 PM

I've noticed in the distant past, that alcohol fuel gets really crappy fuel mileage compared to straight gasoline.

It seems to make sense to me that if alcohol burns stoichiometric with a 7 to 1 air/fuel ratio, and, gasoline burns stoichiometric at 14 to 1 ratio, you're gonna use a lot more fuel with the alcohol mixed fuel.

I'm wondering if it's just another ploy to sell more gas at a higher price?
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 2:08:25 PM

Well, so much for reasoned opinion.

Warm weather has taken the snow out of the yard and gotten the Seine moving so thank you darn nasty ole ethanol.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 2:03:00 PM

nru, your idiotic comments are a reflection of you and you alone. On the other hand, I don't mind having a lough at your expense, so keep them coming.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/15/2015 2:03:22 PM EST]
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 12:58:24 PM

yes krzysiek, ethanol corrodes bare aluminum, just like Oak Ridge says it does. And a comma is used to separate ideas in the adult world, so the appendix is indeed saying that they need the coating to make the aluminum impervious to corrosion.

And the parts of my engine will corrode over time with exposure to ethanol, but I am not going to take them apart to take pictures for someone who has limited comprehension of basics. You asked for which parts, I answered, too bad you fail to comprehend many things. I feel for you, but you have the capability to learn. Good luck, and keep reading catalogs so that you get the right marketing info.

[Edited by: nru at 3/15/2015 12:58:54 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 10:48:17 AM

nru wrote: "And a comma is used to separate things, or do you need a grammar book as well?"

Comma and word "AND" separates things. But of course you do not know meaning of a word "AND" nru AKA Big Clinton. It appears you prefer looking like an idiot.

Complete failure on your end, nru.

nru wrote: "Note that it also has the 10% limit on ethanol content."

First you claim that ethanol corrodes aluminium but then you back it up with MB owners manual claiming otherwise.

Complete failure on your end, nru.

nru wrote: "MAF, intake manifold, cylinder heads, block, liners, pistons, rods, .... None have coated surfaces, and all are machined (left bare)"

In this case please take a picture of your corroded MAF or intake manifold.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/15/2015 10:51:05 AM EST]
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 11:58:43 PM

"304, A16061 and the coating materials are compatible with the alternative fuels" is not the same as "304, AL6061, and the coating materials"- or why the do not recommend bare aluminum (mentioned too many times), but that's beyond you for some reason.

I dunno, I guess you no more than the automotive engineers, SAE (automotive and aerospace), and Mercedes. Good luck in life there, bud, No one can convince you of anything, and your need to interpret things in your on manner does not make for wild claims on my part

"You brought up the automotive applications not me. Show me the parts of your car that are made out of "bare aluminum"."

MAF, intake manifold, cylinder heads, block, liners, pistons, rods, .... None have coated surfaces, and all are machined (left bare)

Here's my owners manual as well

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/service_and_parts/owners_manuals#!year=2009&class=CLK-Class

Note that it also has the 10% limit on ethanol content.

"It does not work this way. You made a wild claim and you continue to fail provide any supporting documentation."

I am again sorry that you fail to comprehend things, but that's not my problem. Again, why do they recommend against bare aluminum (no alloy mentioned) and then say that 6061 is good uncoated - does not make sense, maybe it does to you, maybe you are a metallurgist is disguise, but I doubt it. And a comma is used to separate things, or do you need a grammar book as well?


[Edited by: nru at 3/14/2015 11:59:40 PM EST]
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 9:23:20 PM

Frost will go out soon. Nasty ethanol is causing extra warming.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 9:11:49 PM

nru wrote: "Actual text of what you continue to misquote and fail to understand- show me something else."

How exactly am I misquoting? Is "ALSO" or "AND" not there? Are you simply full of it? We know the answers, don't we.

nru wrote: "Please explain table 2.2 in the same study as well - why would a national lab say to AVOID bare aluminum in ethanol applications given what you postulate as their interpretation?"

You brought up the automotive applications not me. Show me the parts of your car that are made out of "bare aluminum".

nru wrote: "If the had meant uncoated AL6061, it would read "Al6061, and " - no comma in what is written (note the comma between "304 stainless steel" and "Al6061" (they use a comma to separate things in most cases) - sorry for your confusion."

Complete failure on your part once again. What a surprise.

nru wrote: "show me something from SAE or a national lab that contradicts my assertions"

It does not work this way. You made a wild claim and you continue to fail provide any supporting documentation.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 6:37:53 PM

"Anodizing and plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) techniques were used to produce oxide coatings on the Al6061 and Al319 alloys, and the corrosion properties of these coating sin the alternative fuel environments were also evaluated. The results showed that the 304 stainless steel, A16061 and the coating materials are compatible with the alternative fuels. The oxide coatings on both Al alloys provided effective corrosion protection in the alternative fuel environments."

Actual text of what you continue to misquote and fail to understand- show me something else. Sales catalogs are great for tables, show me something from SAE or a national lab that contradicts my assertions -

Please explain table 2.2 in the same study as well - why would a national lab say to AVOID bare aluminum in ethanol applications given what you postulate as their interpretation? If the had meant uncoated AL6061, it would read "Al6061, and " - no comma in what is written (note the comma between "304 stainless steel" and "Al6061" (they use a comma to separate things in most cases) - sorry for your confusion.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:50:41 PM

wrote: "You can read into things what you want, problem is that you can't find science to back you up. Sales catalogs are not cutting it."

You have mentioned two different outside sources and both of them completely disagree with your wild claims. That was already explained to you. Three DIFFERENT chemical resistance charts disagree with you, and that was already covered.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:34:17 PM

Then pleased eplain why national labs recommend against bare aluminum in contact with ethanol bearing fuels (or maybe they are just stupid enough to contradict themselves in their own study), as does SAE and Mercedes. Plain English in my owners manuals, plain English in ORNL table on material recommendations, and plain English in all SAE papers. Explain why the table in the study specifically says "bare aluminum" is not recommended. But maybe octane is the main driver in fuel mileage, and pigs really can fly.

You can read into things what you want, problem is that you can't find science to back you up. Sales catalogs are not cutting it.



[Edited by: nru at 3/14/2015 5:36:05 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:04:17 PM

nru wrote: "Anodizing and plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) techniques were used to produce oxide coatings on the Al6061 and Al319 alloys, - the relevant sentence in the paper - your comprehension is lacking still"

Actually yours does, nru AKA Bill Clinton. First you straggled understanding word IS. Now you completely fail to understand words ALSO and AND.

"Anodizing and plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) techniques were used to produce oxide coatings on the Al6061 and Al319 alloys, and the corrosion properties of these coating sin the alternative fuel environments were ALSO evaluated. The results showed that the 304 stainless steel, A16061 AND the coating materials are compatible with the alternative fuels."

You fail completely again, nru. What a surprise.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/14/2015 5:06:24 PM EST]
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 1:36:22 PM

you will pay a premium for non ethanol.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 1:35:07 PM

This attempt to develop a construct, whereby ethanol eats aluminum, seems pointless, as car makers have made E10 compatible engines for over 30 years and E85 engines for well over a decade.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 12:41:17 PM

"Another Chemical Resistance Chart proves you wrong. Ethanol looks well comparing to Benzene, Toluene, and Xylene, chemcicals used in gasoline."

yep - Aluminum (B-okay, not great, but okay) - no notion of alloy, no notion of temper, no notion of coatings.

Find me something from a real source - too bad my first link was cut off (gas buddy thing - second was the same thing without the cutoff) - check page 3 for a national lab take on compatibility - see the table, bottom left, "bare aluminum" specifically motioned as to "avoid" But you know better than a national lab, people who research the stuff and have scientific backgrounds (not pharmacy with a marketing emphasis), but rather those who actually give advice to the real world aerospace and automotive industries..

"nru wrote: "No, Al6061 and 319 specimens were all anodized for their study."

Wrong. What a surprise."

Anodizing and plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) techniques were used to produce oxide coatings on the Al6061 and Al319 alloys, - the relevant sentence in the paper - your comprehension is lacking still

Hmmm, you fail to understand again, I guess from a person who thinks octane has something to do with mileage and energy content, that just continues. The table lists compatible (no aluminum) and incompatible materials as recommended by a national lab, kinda trumps a catalog from a gasket company. You may argue with the messenger, but your lack of comprehension in reading a simple table is kind of telling.

Ethanol can be made completely compatible with a fuel system, if you avoid bare aluminum, many elastomers, and other materials noted. Many automobile companies have done this, and modern computers make it so that the spark advance and fuel mixture will allow almost any concentration of ethanol in fuels used. Mercedes and many other manufacturers have not made that step, and thus recommend not using said fuels, and void warranties for it as well You may argue with me, but the engineers who designed my car probably know better than you, as do the FAA with their take on ethanol in fuel delivery systems.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 11:53:08 AM

Toloune - Toluene is a common solvent, e.g. for paints, paint thinners, silicone sealants,[13] many chemical reactants, rubber, printing ink, adhesives (glues), lacquers, leather tanners, and disinfectants. Toluene

Benzene - Prior to the 1920s, benzene was frequently used as an industrial solvent, especially for degreasing metal. As its toxicity became obvious, benzene was supplanted by other solvents, especially toluene (methyl benzene), which has similar physical properties but is not as carcinogenic. Benzene

Xylene - Xylene is used as a solvent. In this application, mixture of isomers is often referred to as xylenes or xylol. Solvent xylene often contains a small percentage of ethylbenzene. Like the individual isomers, the mixture is colorless, sweet-smelling, and highly flammable. Areas of application include the printing, rubber, and leather industries. It is a common component of ink, rubber, and adhesives.[12] In thinning paints and varnishes, it can be substituted for toluene where slower drying is desired, and thus is used by conservators of art objects in solubility testing.[13] Similarly it is a cleaning agent, e.g., for steel, silicon wafers, and integrated circuits. In dentistry, xylene can be used to dissolve gutta percha, a material used for endodontics (root canal treatments). In the petroleum industry, xylene is also a frequent component of paraffin solvents, used when the tubing becomes clogged with paraffin wax. For similar reasons, it is often the active ingredient in commercial products for ear wax (cerumen) removal.Xylene

Welcome to BTEX compounds found in gasoline including E0.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/14/2015 11:58:49 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 11:40:29 AM

nru wrote: "No, Al6061 and 319 specimens were all anodized for their study."

Wrong. What a surprise.

First link - failure to post. What a surprise

Second link - Two of out three mentioned sources lists Aluminum as Yes in E85, look at the table. Only E85 Handbook 2008 lists differently.

You continue to fail miserably. What a surprise.

Another Chemical Resistance Chart proves you wrong. Ethanol looks well comparing to Benzene, Toluene, and Xylene, chemcicals used in gasoline.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/14/2015 11:44:28 AM EST]
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jpaul101
Veteran Author Texas

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 9:09:33 AM

You can still buy non-ethanol gas but you will pay a premium for it. Figure that.
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gsogb1
Rookie Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 9:04:00 AM

next time you let your gasoline canister sit for a while dont move it but take a look inside and look very closely at the bottom and nudge it just a little and you will see the "ethanol bubble" at the bottom of the canister.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:14:23 AM

And.....according to chemical compatibility charts charts ethanol has a good compatibility rating with aluminum. "Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration."

The slight corrosion is rendered ineffective with the addition of corossion inhibitors.

I suppose that my 24 year old push mower with an aluminum block, that has over 20 years of ethanol blended fuels in it won't last much longer.

Darn, that nasty ole ethanol!

[Edited by: goldseeker at 3/14/2015 5:14:59 AM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 2:12:23 AM

"You still refuse to understand - ethanol is a mild acid, and will corrode most metals. "

BS. Ethanol, C2H5OH, is neutral to basic in water. With the small amount of ionization that could occur, a hydroxyl group (OH) would go into solution producing an alkaline solution, not acidic. But, it makes little difference if ethanol produces an acidic or basic solution. Ethanol, when mixed with aliphatic hydrocarbons, like those used for gasoline, would remain unionized and produce neither an acidic or basic solution.

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