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Author Topic: Who's equipment being killed off by ethanol? Back to Topics
DreamMachine

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Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 10:20:35 AM

I posted a long while back about "why not just run pure alcohol like Indy cars?" Here in PA we are limited to a 10 percent blend. I caught hell from people with boats to people with Weedeaters. OK Now I'm going to eat crow. My leafblower wouldn't run last fall. Every plastic line had to be replaced(by me)with nylon tubing normally used for automotive vacuum lines. I also have a plastic gas gauge on the tractor's grass vacuum. This year the normally clear face is white. It's unreadable. Just this week, my neighbor swore his fuel pump was bad so on his Chevy truck, we dropped the tank and I tested it and it was good. The computer claimed it wasn't supplying fuel the the throttle body fuel rail. Not true. The sensor that reads fuel pressure to the rail was bad. I still believe in pure alcohol as a fuel but I'm seeing companies large and small ignoring retrofitting new equipment to handle it. I now believe that companies are using up existing stocks rather than upgrading. Sure, a sensor here, a gas gauge there, plastic fuel lines may not be the "Big Story At 11:00" but it sure as hell looks like the big shots are keeping it as quiet as long as they can still turn a profit. SSJ*
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2013 11:39:01 PM

"My leafblower wouldn't run last fall. Every plastic line had to be replaced(by me)with nylon tubing normally used for automotive vacuum lines."

Wow. You better contact the FDA. Ethanol for human consumption has been sold in plastic containers, for the better part of a century.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2013 9:55:36 AM

PhilnTX, I had a 40 year old lawnmower that I ran on E10 for 15 years until I gave it away. It ran great, except I broke the pull cord on it once. Darn that nasty ole ethanol!
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2013 9:06:21 AM

If you read the complaints about Troy Built there are plenty.
Have a Ryobie trimmer going on 7years old a blower going on 6years 5 Dixie Choppers a Briggs&Strattion walk behind 3years old and NONE of them have any problems related to fuel.
Must be in a different universe after all these BAD ETHANOL PROBLEMS.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 3:56:00 PM

Attention: People who care about the truth.

The scenario described by PhilnTX is clearly the case of a defective product independent of fuel used in the product. Read the post again, CAREFULLY as Phil is carefully writing his words. The post is not really about a piece of equipment.

Troy Built is notorious for blaming ethanol for their poor quality products. If 50 of them were in a pile in this shop, this is indicative of a materials problem with the product. Hundreds of millions of internal combustion powered pieces of equipment run yearafter year after year on E-10

My Sears mower with tecumseh engine is now 21 years old. Always bought the cheapest gas, 10% ethanol. Gave it to my neighbor when I bought my electric this spring, she's still chopping away with it.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 8/15/2013 4:00:20 PM EST]
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PhilnTX
All-Star Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 3:44:03 PM

Just took a 2 year old "Troy Built" Weed wacker in for service. It died mid tank, wouldn't restart.

Fuel lines inside the tank were "dissolving", carb float arm was corroded, fuel bowls had corrosion in them.

Tech removed a carb from another unit he had in stock, replaced fuel lines, filled it up with "no ethanol" gas and it started right up.

He pointed to a stack of about 50 string trimmers all with similar issues.

No more ethanol gas for my 2 and 4 stroke lawn care engines.
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stickyvalves
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 12:19:53 PM

Been using gasohol for 35 years now with no engine problems. Must be doing something wrong.
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smugutu1234
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 7:20:20 AM

My car does not run well on it, that's what.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 3:15:47 AM

Yeah, my front tires are worn out. Darn that nasty ole ethanol!
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 2:08:31 AM

Do the front tires on my Chrysler count, they break loose a little too easily when my 200 is on the stuff!
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 14, 2013 2:46:55 AM

Never has and never will kill off any equipment.
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Steveo763
Veteran Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 11:13:12 PM

E10 doesn't have that much damaging potential, with a proper gas can and fresh gasoline. If you are letting gas with ethanol sit for a several months or between seasons it will attract moisture and the lines will deteriorate from the water content in the fuel.

Generally with fresh fuel, E10 is absolutely harmless to anything taking pure gas. The realistic solution to keep your equipment running well is to only buy enough fuel for a couple weeks of small engine use, and stabilize the fuel for long-term storage.

Similarly, you want a newer gas storage container that stays sealed. If there's the old-school open nozzle with the rear plastic plug, the passive exhange of air will water log the fuel.

E10 gets blamed, when in reality usually it's due to neglect of years of old fuel, or simple corrosion in old vehicles.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:17:45 PM

"I went to electric, I never had carburetor problem with small engines until E10 came along."
Stop putting E10 in your electric carburetor.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 6:49:14 PM

"Then about every two years I had to take it to a shop to rebuild the carburetor in the spring,"

Wow, your mechanic saw you coming a mile away!
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 12:33:05 PM

Ethanol is not a problem for my mower. I went to electric, I never had carburetor problem with small engines until E10 came along.
Then about every two years I had to take it to a shop to rebuild the carburetor in the spring, when I try to start it up. I can spray gas into the carb and it will run. But the carb will not work.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 7:08:29 AM

"Ethanol is very bad on small engines like lawn mowers and power generators."

Baloney! Thousands of mowers are run on E10 every day with no problems. People fall for the stories from mechanics who blame everything that wears out on ethanol, but if that were the case, prior to about 1981, no small engine mechanics would have existed because no small motor would have ever worn out, right?
Any mower manufacturer that makes a mower that can't be run on E10 after this many years would be a third-rate, third-world-country backwoods operation making REALLY cheap mowers. I don't know anybody who has actually managed to find cheap garbage like that for sale.
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FieroGT
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 6:49:30 AM

Ethanol is very bad on small engines like lawn mowers and power generators.
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WE0H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 28, 2013 12:22:15 PM

Ever hear a neighbor trying to mow his yard with a mower revving up & down because the carb is gummed up from gasoline? Now go over there and dump in a few ounces of straight alcohol and check back a few minutes later as you notice his carb is now clean and the mower is running smooth as it should. I've done this many times with my old gas mowers and neighbor's mowers. I now run a battery mower so I don't have to use any fuel 8-)
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 28, 2013 9:06:06 AM

tdioiler wrote: "Only the really ignorant people think plastics are only one type."

Plastic Chemical Resistance

Please take a look at the table representing different plastics and list one of them that is not compatible with Ethanol while at the same time it is compatible with Benzene, Toluene, and Xylene. Good luck.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 27, 2013 12:37:28 AM

Are we really supposed to think auto parts makers have somehow settled on using plastics that dissolve only in ethanol, and are resistant to toluene, benzene, and zylene?
Are we really supposed to think that the ethanol distillers produce the beverages with ethanol that is so different from the ethanol blended into automotive fuel that it doesn't dissolve the same plastics that automotive ethanol blends dissolve?
Or perhaps, distillers simply have always had a proprietary plastic that is far advanced from plastics used in automotive applications?
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 27, 2013 12:32:58 AM

Yes, there are many types of plastics and ethanol may not be compatible with them all, but it is sure a lot better than gasoline.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: May 26, 2013 11:29:29 PM

Only the really ignorant people think plastics are only one type.

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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 25, 2013 7:17:48 AM

In addition to Toluene, they also use benzene, and xylene which are all have a poor rating with plastic.

Try this compatibility chart.
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 25, 2013 3:26:11 AM

"Ethanol does not eat plastic, but gasoline sure does! "

IIRC they're using the chemical Toluene as a gasoline additive. Now from some of my model car building experiences, some of the less than non-toxic model cements use the stuff to soften and melt the plastics together as well as some of the model body fillers to allow the filler to bond to the plastics. Can't imagine what happens to plastic when the stuff is constantly flowing over or bathing said failed plastic parts.

Don't believe me, here's some of the MSDS info, just for example.
Testors model cement
/media/document/MS.0035000.032812.pdf

Squadron White Putty
http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/msds/Squadron%20white%20putty%20msds.pdf
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 25, 2013 2:16:36 AM

Ethanol does not eat plastic, but gasoline sure does!
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forestghost07
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 3:23:50 PM

Ethanol did seriously eat the plastic carb on a mower I had, and the cars I service (MG and Triumph sports cars) are showing up with internal carb damage, and fuel pump issues as well (rubber diaphragm - type electric pumps)

Fortunately, eth-free gas is now available close to me
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 14, 2013 3:34:43 AM

"Ethanol used in gasoline produces a toxin called PAN, which is an eye irritant and is toxic to plants. It can linger in cooler air and be carried away by the wind from the source of origin, a large city, into rural areas where it is released in warmer air. Not a pretty situation. This was documented by a Federal laboratory!"

What a bunch of rubbish! What federal laboratory? It really doesn't make any difference as the feds are never right.

Oh, by the way what about all of the toxic cancer causing agents in gasoline? Is that OK?
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63pioneer
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: May 13, 2013 4:06:19 AM

It's all about money, and whatever the "Boss Hogs" of this world can do to make a buck, they will do. Making ethanol from corn is good for farmers who have to have a market for their when there is excess corn to be sold but it also has caused the cost of corn to increase which food products that use corn become more expensive and if you add the increase in inflation caused by the idiot Fed chairman and our President, another idiot, everybody suffers. Ethanol used in gasoline produces a toxin called PAN, which is an eye irritant and is toxic to plants. It can linger in cooler air and be carried away by the wind from the source of origin, a large city, into rural areas where it is released in warmer air. Not a pretty situation. This was documented by a Federal laboratory!
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FatherFred
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: May 5, 2013 6:31:52 PM

my truck, the mileage is down by 20 percent.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 11:36:20 PM

Silverstreak, Your warranty is void. Abusive use and terrorizing the ground hogs.

BTW, the fuel line is custom fit from Stihl. So how does a fuel like take wear and tear? Friction? Not. Stretching? Not again. Or just running the wrong fuel? I think that's the answer.
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2013 12:26:36 PM

Have Ethanol here in Indiana for OVER 20yrs Last year had 70 some cars die from a "missque" at the bulk plant seems "regular" gas got 150% of a additive that turned fuel lines to MUSH in a lot of new and older cars.
I have leaf blowers weed eaters all older than 5yrs no such problems better check what kind of anti knock "additive" your getting.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 7:09:05 AM

So, eight years of trouble free use, and you don't equate that to 8 years of wear and tear?
And why not go after the company for supplying shoddy replacement parts, probably from some little plant in China, or maybe Bangladesh?
If a company can't supply you with a fuel hose that can withstand ethanol, after over 30 years to figure it out, it is a pretty crappy company maximizing profits at the expense of quality.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 2:46:51 AM

I will keep using ethanol in my small engines, and not replace any fuel lines or other components.

Oh by the way, I just fired up my 12 year old chain saw that sat all winter with a tank of e10.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:56:06 PM

tdioiler, mind paying for my lawn mower repair? The cord broke and one of the wheels bent because I have to use gasoline in it!
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 9:06:25 PM

Hey goldseeker, mind paying for my leaf blower repair? The flexible hose coming off the fuel tank has failed again; 3 times in 7 years. Before that over 8 years without a problem.

The difference I can only attribute it to? To ethanol that came into play for MI about 6 years ago. I change nothing else but that. And not by my choice.

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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 8:42:44 AM

STAR*TRON AUTO GASOLINE ADDITIVE MSDS

Solvent Naphtha (Petroleum), Heavy Aliphatic, Weight % - >95%

I will pass.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 2:40:35 AM

I doubt that any of those problems were caused by ethanol. I have had similar problems over 30 years ago, which was long before ethanol fuels were on the market.
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bigginTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 1:11:55 AM

I bought a bottle of Star Tron. The direction advised to use one ounce for every three gallons for the initial dosage. I have a 14-15 gallon tank, meaning I would use 5 ounces on the first go, I opted to just pour the eight ounces in.

I drove 40 miles on the highway to my destination. The temperature was in the mid 50's with a wind blowing from the West. I was traveling to the eastward.

In short time I noticed a smoother feeling engine and easier acceleration. Psychological? Or was it the matter of cool, dry air and a good tail wind combined with driving outside the usual, crowded, morning rush?

I can verify that I used only 1/8 tank to my destination 40 miles away - a world's record as since the day I rolled my truck off the lot, brand new, back in '91, the first quarter tank has always gone quickly, and that was on pure gas.

I buzzed around the destination city a bit, then on to the next city west where I buzzed around a bit as well. As I was driving home, westward, on the highway, in a head wind of 20-25 mph, I certainly felt the wind resistance, but still noticed a smoother engine operation. Acceleration seemed somewhat nicer both with and against the wind, I might add.

Per on-line remarks, some folks have noticed a difference immediately, as I, and others have experienced gradual improvement with each tank, seemingly up to three tanks.

I am on vacation this week and not doing much driving, so starting next week, when I return to work and driving about 82 miles round trip, I will be able to better review the product's performance.
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bigginTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 6:17:18 PM

I must apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, I wish there was a keyword search function, but have you or any buddies tried Star Tron enzyme fuel treatment?

I just heard about it earlier today and it's supposed to help machinery with the issues that gas containing ethanol can cause.

I have a '91 Nissan and used to get great mileage, but since ethanol is now prevalent in gas, I'm thinking about trying that stuff just to see. It's also supposed to help with carbon build up and increase mpg.

It's pretty expensive - about $10/8 oz bottle, so I'm about to embark on an expensive experiment. It seems easier than the mixing water in gas in a separate container to precipitate the ethanol method I've read about.

I'll let you know my experiences.
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