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Author Topic: ETHANOL WHY USE IT Back to Topics
TJP48

Sophomore Author
Louisiana

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 6:23:49 AM


Why would you use are food to drive, yes i get it save gasoline and all, but like last year what if we have another drought. That would just make gas prices rise. Think about it i am just looking for answers !
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 2:12:23 PM

"Or, if demand decreased, farmers would plant less corn"

True, farmers will either plant another crop bringing down food prices or go on the dole.

I wonder which they would choose to do?
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 8:46:43 AM

"The standards developed by the four automobile manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline are described below. This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers. These standards comprise the requirements for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline."

"1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
2. Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
3. Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580.
4. Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
5. Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86.
6. Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves."

TOP TIER Gasoline Deposit Control Standards
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tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 12:41:20 AM

"The use of poor quality fuels may result in problems relating to drivability and starting, and a tendency to stall, especially under certain environmental conditions such as high ambient temperature and high altitude. Should you encounter drivability problems which you suspect could be related to the fuel you are using, we recommend that you respond by switching to a recognized high-quality brand such as gasoline that is advertised as Top Tier Detergent Gasoline."

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol.



[Edited by: tropicalmn at 4/23/2013 12:42:46 AM EST]
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tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 12:36:45 AM

“Go back a single year. Corn is up 350% from 2007, a far larger increase then gasoline and other commodities.
What you have just done is called "cherry picking" your data...”
“Corn at the start of 2007 was $2.35/bushel, and it peaked in 2012 at $8.15/ushel. Do the math...”
LOL! Liars figure & figures lie… The average corn price for the month was over 3.00 in Jan.2007. Corn was briefly over $8.00 in 2012 due to price speculation by traders during a drought which certainly hurt demand. The corn market has since clearly demonstrated by trading lower since that time that a price much lower than 8.00 is needed & is about $6.50 today.October corn is under $5.50.


[Edited by: tropicalmn at 4/23/2013 12:38:06 AM EST]
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 10:27:47 PM

Soylent, the specs from a BMW 650 coupe (pulled out the manual from the garage to see; not my garage, but a good source of fun). Right after the paragraph on using premium fuel that might contain up to 10% ethanol will not void the warranties...

"The use of poor quality fuels may result in problems relating to drivability and starting, and a tendency to stall, especially under certain environmental conditions such as high ambient temperature and high altitude. Should you encounter drivability problems which you suspect could be related to the fuel you are using, we recommend that you respond by switching to a recognized high-quality brand such as gasoline that is advertised as Top Tier Detergent Gasoline."

No recommendation there. Anyone have another to show?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 12:24:25 PM

"I live in a Metro area and am forced to use E10. My auto manufacture does not recommend it......What's a guy to do?"

Have you ever read a car owners manual? Tell me what car you drive that the one of the recommended fuels is not E10.
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BarefootsM3
Rookie Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 9:30:43 AM

I live in a Metro area and am forced to use E10. My auto manufacture does not recommend it......What's a guy to do?
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 9:21:06 AM

Wanda127 wrote: "I believe we should stop being forced to use Ethanol."

How exactly are you forced to use Ethanol?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 11:50:40 PM

"If they did that corn would go back to the table to be eaten instead of being used for fuel. "

Or, if demand decreased, farmers would plant less corn.
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 11:41:53 PM

I believe we should stop being forced to use Ethanol. If they did that corn would go back to the table to be eaten instead of being used for fuel.
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 8:12:32 PM

Gold prices are down.

Also, wouldn't there be a season avg. calc that would take out the spot pricing?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 3:31:30 PM

Corn at the start of 2007 was $2.35/bushel, and it peaked in 2012 at $8.15/ushel. Do the math...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 2:31:09 PM

"Go back a single year. Corn is up 350% from 2007, a far larger increase then gasoline and other commodities.

What you have just done is called "cherry picking" your data..."

And what you have just done is lied. A 350% increase from 2007 would place corn at $12.25 a bushel. Corn never came close to that price. Corn sells for $6.5 to $7 today. That's roughly a 100% increase, just like oil and slightly less than gold.

Enough with the fabrications.
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giwan
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 1:30:18 PM

Ethanol should not be made from food products
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robwill1889
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:21:11 AM

ethanol is a government idea not thought out
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:12:49 AM

"If you can demonstrate why commodities, like gasoline, gold, and other commodities have increased in price by over 100% since 2008 (a greater increase than corn)"

Go back a single year. Corn is up 350% from 2007, a far larger increase then gasoline and other commodities.

What you have just done is called "cherry picking" your data...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 8:34:32 AM

"I guess some people have not been to the store lately to by corn are corn products, they are slaughtering beef early, i had a whole chicken i bought and when i went back to buy another one for gumbo it was a dollar more same as corn !"

That's nonsense. The price for an entire bushel of corn (56 pounds) is only a dollar higher than three years ago. Furthermore, the cost of corn going into products made from 100% corn, is such a low percentage of the retail price, that in increase of several hundred percent in cor price would still represent a small cost component.

http://futures.tradingcharts/chart/CN/M

The fact of the matter is all commodities have increased due to a declining US dollar. Corn is no exception. If you can demonstrate why commodities, like gasoline, gold, and other commodities have increased in price by over 100% since 2008 (a greater increase than corn), but the increase in the price of only corn is due to ethanol, be my guest.
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TJP48
Sophomore Author Louisiana

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 7:21:46 AM

I guess some people have not been to the store lately to by corn are corn products, they are slaughtering beef early, i had a whole chicken i bought and when i went back to buy another one for gumbo it was a dollar more same as corn ! Also i do not get as good as milage, hell we tried these before, this is nothing new .



[Edited by: TJP48 at 4/21/2013 7:25:05 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 6:42:08 PM

nichols wrote: "Who in their right mind would willingly pay for a fuel that costs more mpg, drives up the price of food, causes damage to engines and decreases your mileage."

I use E35 in one vehicle and E25 (switching to E30) in the other. Same MPGs as E10 and so far I have 0 (zero) ethanol related issues with both.

How many ethanol related engine damages have you had so far?
Can you prove that ethanol drives the price of food more than increased cost of transportation (gasoline price) or decreased value of dollar?
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 12:23:29 PM


Ethanol does not drive up food costs, petroleum does.
Ethanol mixed in gasoline does far less damage to engines than straight gasoline.

Get the facts straight please. nichols you need to stop turning to the oil companies for information about this excellent alternative fuel resource, alcohol.

If you want your engine to run longer and more miles, you'll use the 10% ethanol or E-85 if you have a FFV. Much better and cleaner.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 4/20/2013 12:27:29 PM EST]
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nichols
Champion Author Halifax

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 11:51:53 AM

Political use only. Who in their right mind would willingly pay for a fuel that costs more mpg, drives up the price of food, causes damage to engines and decreases your mileage.
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smugutu1234
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 11:35:23 AM

We need to stop using it in our gas.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 9:15:36 AM

" but like last year what if we have another drought."

We will have another grain surplus, just like we had "last year" and every other year in the past half century. The sky is not falling.
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