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Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:589 Points:15,705 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 8:10:47 AM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse OK, I can understand why someone would not want ethanol in their fuel. Everyone wants choices. Where I am, I can buy "non ethanol" fuel at almost 60 stations in my metro area of only 110,000 people if I want. I understand why one would want to have a no ethanol option. Why make anyone use what they don't want to? I support that principle. However, when people post about how bad the alternative is, and post about it being detrimental and damaging, and they continue to make those points when never proven, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. Where is the advantage in trying to protect a monopoly? Who enjoys being held to one choice with no alternatives but people who want to see the monopoly live on????? Let me take it a step further. I can understand why one would believe that corn ethanol is bad. People have can have an opinion on the ag industry, I get that too. But if you know anything about making ethanol, corn is by far the least expensive and most abundant feedstock there is. Today. But there are many other alternatives from switchgrass, miscanthus (which has been proven to consume mor carbon well to engine than it produces), sugar beets that yield double the ethanol per acre than corn and are more soil friendly. Algae too! I could go on, but will get to my point. Nature takes sunlight and sugar and gives you a 100% renewable liquid fuel that burns VERY clean. No butchering tar sands and shale, just rotate crops and re-grow your fuel. No toxic refiners making millions sicl. No carcinogens like benzene and toluene forun in ALL gasoline. If you don't feel it's "practical", then what is your problem with it being a niche? What IS your agenda if you feel only one thing can be used for fuels, and every alternative is wrong? If you are against E-15, why do you have a problem with Flex Fuel vehicles and E-85? This promotes choice and does not require you or anyone to use E-15. You can even buy one and put your non ethanol fuel in it. So what is your agenda? [Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/13/2013 8:16:20 AM EST]

Hannie59

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Appleton

Posts:589
Points:15,705
Joined:Apr 2010

Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 8:10:47 AM

Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse

OK, I can understand why someone would not want ethanol in their fuel. Everyone wants choices. Where I am, I can buy "non ethanol" fuel at almost 60 stations in my metro area of only 110,000 people if I want. I understand why one would want to have a no ethanol option. Why make anyone use what they don't want to? I support that principle.

However, when people post about how bad the alternative is, and post about it being detrimental and damaging, and they continue to make those points when never proven, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. Where is the advantage in trying to protect a monopoly? Who enjoys being held to one choice with no alternatives but people who want to see the monopoly live on?????

Let me take it a step further. I can understand why one would believe that corn ethanol is bad. People have can have an opinion on the ag industry, I get that too. But if you know anything about making ethanol, corn is by far the least expensive and most abundant feedstock there is. Today. But there are many other alternatives from switchgrass, miscanthus (which has been proven to consume mor carbon well to engine than it produces), sugar beets that yield double the ethanol per acre than corn and are more soil friendly. Algae too! I could go on, but will get to my point. Nature takes sunlight and sugar and gives you a 100% renewable liquid fuel that burns VERY clean. No butchering tar sands and shale, just rotate crops and re-grow your fuel. No toxic refiners making millions sicl. No carcinogens like benzene and toluene forun in ALL gasoline. If you don't feel it's "practical", then what is your problem with it being a niche? What IS your agenda if you feel only one thing can be used for fuels, and every alternative is wrong?

If you are against E-15, why do you have a problem with Flex Fuel vehicles and E-85? This promotes choice and does not require you or anyone to use E-15. You can even buy one and put your non ethanol fuel in it. So what is your agenda?

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/13/2013 8:16:20 AM EST]

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

jrfan6767 Veteran Author Kansas Posts:414 Points:42,745 Joined:Mar 2013	Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 11:05:33 AM Ignore jrfan6767 Report Abuse just get a flex fuel vehicle
Banjoe Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:4,268 Points:616,215 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 7:50:14 AM Ignore Banjoe Report Abuse Hannie59 - you expressed my thoughts exactly on TalonKarrde's note. Well done both of you.
RedRider1OK All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:943 Points:25,440 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 7:55:50 PM Ignore RedRider1OK Report Abuse Well put EMC John and thanks for sharing your personal experiences about your concerns and problems you have experienced with ethanol. It's unfortunate that our fed. govt. mandates its use through the RFS; if not you would have a much easier choice.
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:589 Points:15,705 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 11:34:08 AM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Well put Talon... I can only attempt to make my own posts as logical as that. Well made points w/o unnecessary fear and emotion.
TalonKarrde Rookie Author Des Moines Posts:8 Points:260 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 11:17:14 AM Ignore TalonKarrde Report Abuse I support E-85. I support E-10. I support CNG. My agenda is choice. I support E-85 made from corn without mandates, and E-85 made from Metro Waste, Corn Stover, Energy Beets, Sorghum, switch grass or whatever. I would run E-15 in my FFV vehicle. I wouldn't run it in a new non-FFV where the manufacturer clearly states it voids the warranty. I would run it if that manufacturer publicly supported it. I would consider running it in a vehicle that was tested by the government (2004 and newer?) vehicles if the price was compelling enough. We have a strong Ethanol infrasctrucure now. Incent the research into more efficient production, don't incent the fuel (E-85 or straight gas). Make the products stand on their own two feet. There's currently an $.80 spread between Ethanol and Gasoline right now. All the gas-or-die supporters here are probably about to see why having a choice (FFV) is a good idea when they are paying $4.00+ a gallon this summer, and E-85 are paying %25-%30 less than that if things keep going the way they are.
EMC_John Veteran Author Springfield Posts:256 Points:17,310 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 10:25:38 AM Ignore EMC_John Report Abuse Finding a Marina without Ethanol is a problem in my area and much of the Coast. When first foisted upon us, myself had filters plug up and needed to limp back. Others have had various problems with filters, older fuel lines and notoriously the old "Lifetime" fuel tanks. Add to that our vessels sit over the winter and sometimes weeks during warmer months, when we have to be concerned with fuel seperation.
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:589 Points:15,705 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 6:22:45 PM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Aaaaaand crickets from the oil patch. My agenda is truth, BTW.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,338 Points:731,085 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 8:14:52 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse There are many Big Oil Shills that will do anything to protect Big Oil Greed interests.