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Hannie59

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Appleton

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 10:19:40 AM

The nay-sayers keep writing obituaries for cellulosic ethanol. But the real news is that, in 2012, the first commercial cellulose plant was completed and several others began construction. Ineos in Florida is producing cellulosic ethanol today. From Abengoa in Kansas to ZeaChem in Oregon, the future of the ethanol industry can now be seen. Commercial quantities of cellulosic ethanol will be entering the market.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2013 10:25:54 AM

From the article I posted:

"Here again we see the direction of the Obama Administration in picking energy losers, for in March 2011, President Obama indicated a desire to get four new cellulosic ethanol refineries up and running by 2013.[xii] Whether these plants would be economic didn’t matter, for his EPA would just mandate the use of the fuel regardless of cost."

That pretty much sums it up...
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 8:59:19 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "I'm against uneconomical energy sources that taxpayers are force to pay for theorugh subsidies, or are forced to use..."

Gasoline receives federal subsidies. Why are you using gasoline?

Can you list all the E85 federal subsidies? I bet you are making this garbage up.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 2/8/2013 9:02:29 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 8:20:44 PM

"And he rails on the volt as well. He's against ethanol, ev's"

Wrong agin Hannie. I'm against uneconomical energy sources that taxpayers are force to pay for theorugh subsidies, or are forced to use...

Take away the huge subsidies that the Volt and EV's get and I have no problem with them. See, I don't think that we should pass down huge debts for our descendants to pay for on things that are neither practical nor economical...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 8:17:47 PM

"Old news Shockjock"

Hardly. It's an article written in January of this year.

"Shockjock will use pessimism to make you believe that petroleum is all there is"

No pessimism, simple truth. This "commercial quantity" processing plant MIGHT produce 4 million gallons this year (a drop in the bucket). That's a big might...
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 7:02:55 PM

And he rails on the volt as well. He's against ethanol, ev's, for petroleum, and against it. So , and forgive me for stooping to this level... is he Gollum?

Ok shockjock I apologize but what kind of agenda you pushing here. At least I state mine right out. True facts and choice.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/8/2013 7:05:44 PM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 6:49:39 PM

Hannie59 wrote: "Old news shockjock. More bias void of fact. Shockjock will use pessimism to make you believe that petroleum is all there is."

Interestingly enough this Troll, Shockjock1961, is not only against ethanol he/she is also against domestic energy production.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

Posts:914
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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 5:15:05 PM

Old news shockjock. More bias void of fact. Shockjock will use pessimism to make you believe that petroleum is all there is.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/8/2013 5:16:42 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 4:52:16 PM

Second, cellulosic technology is not likely to be competitive. The actual costs of production on a commercial scale are not generally known because current costs are based on small-scale pilot plants and the chemistry of how the enzymes and microorganisms used in the process will perform at a large commercial scale have not been determined. For example, the cost for the BP plant cancelled in Florida is estimated to be as much as 10 times higher than for a corn-based ethanol plant for the first plants constructed. Field studies have been done recently to determine how much the feedstocks (the grasses, wood chips, straw, or corn stover) cost to grow, harvest, and get to a biofuels plant. Recent estimates place the cost at $80 to $130 a ton, compared to earlier estimates that suggested around $30 a ton. That means the fuel input required to make a gallon of cellulosic ethanol from these materials will cost $1.30 to $1.48 before they are even processed into ethanol. Compare that to corn-based ethanol that costs around $2.40 a gallon, and the competitiveness of cellulosic ethanol is hard to find
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 4:37:34 PM

The have been saying for almost two decades and after tens of billions of dollars worth of subsidies. Chances are good that the same thing will happen this time as in the past. Someone declares they have made a "breakthru" They will collect a pile of money from the government, then the business will go bankrupt leaving the founders quite a bit better off thatnks to the taxpayers...
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