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Author Topic: Oil industry stages another sham anti ethanol press conference Back to Topics
Hannie59

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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 1:14:42 PM

Truthseekers, read on!

The auto channel is the #1 independent automotive website!

[L=http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2013/01/29/text deleted perspective on APis motives[/L]

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/5/2013 1:21:10 PM EST]
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SilverStreaker
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Message Posted: May 14, 2013 10:02:36 AM

khawk858 asks "Where can I get information on the content of ethanol by source."
The Renewable Fuels Assoc. shows US Biorefinery Locations and feedstock, which is primarily corn.
The Canadian Renewable Fuels Assoc. shows Canadian Plant Locations and feedstock, which is more diverse, but primarily wheat and corn.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: May 14, 2013 3:32:50 AM

"khawk858", I did NOT say all ethanol was made from waste wheat vs corn, I said the ethanol I get in my tank was mostly made from waste wheat, and the original plant my ethanol came from only used waste wheat for many years. Now they have opened a larger plant, they top up the mix with various grains, including corn, depending on what is available at the time.
Different plants in different areas may have different crops available.
The plants my ethanol come from uses mainly soft wheat, prairie spring wheat, winter wheat, then corn, and, occasionally, durum, barley, and rye. The plant is designed specifically to process non-food grades.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 14, 2013 3:14:42 AM

I believe there is one plant in Canada that uses wheat as a feedstock. There is also one in the US that uses a combination of milo and wheat.

[Edited by: goldseeker at 5/14/2013 3:17:53 AM EST]
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khawk858
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Message Posted: May 14, 2013 1:07:01 AM

Where can I get information on the content of ethanol by source. One person says ethanol is mostly made by waste wheat versus corn. Is there a source to which I could be sent to verify such a remark? Just because a person says it and even if it is then said by multiple people based on the first person's assertion does not mean the remark is true. I am not saying it is incorrect on wheat versus corn but would like to know a primary source.
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 7:59:30 PM

brerabbitTX...I heard recently that the oil companies are going to start making subgrade gasoline. Ethanol boosts the octane and it's cheaper to make subgrade. This also means that it will no longer be possible to purchase ethanol free gas. I heard rumors that this could happen as soon as September. I think that it is going to be interesting to watch the oil industry back peddle on their previous stance on ethanol. Subgrade gas can't be sold without blending with 10% ethanol. What can you tell me about this?



[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 5/8/2013 8:00:37 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 8:32:28 PM

As long as we don't hamper research, ethanol production will continue to become more efficient, and other materials will continue to be used to produce it.
Note the ethanol I use in my car is made from a variety of materials, of which corn is usually the smallest component, and waste wheat the largest.
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 3:22:54 PM

I have read your post below three times brerrabbitTX, and if you can believe it, I have no rebuttal whatsoever. Nicely said, and I agree the most with your last pararaph. I make no secret of the fact the I believe the RFA ought to be taking a different angle. But I am not them.

I don't want either to disappear. My ideal is to have more choices in FFV designs to pick from and more stations which I drive up to that have an E-85 pump, as well as an ethanol free pump.

As you say you have never said ethanol damages engines, thank you for bringing the rest of your logic to light regarding the issue of ethanol. Although, I still question the source of all of THAT rhetoric. In that where it comes from, not that it's forom you personally, that is. Talk all you want about the pros of gas or the cons of ethanol. But make sure we are talking about the issues that are accurate. Your posts have indeed touched on many of those issues and question marks without the nonsense.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 5/7/2013 3:28:12 PM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 2:49:59 PM

I personally would have to check all of my past postings to be 100% sure but I don't think I have ever said anything about ethanol harming your engine. As a matter of fact I have said on many occasions I personally have no problem with ethanol and it's use. Whatever lies you are convinced the oil industry is putting out there I can sit back and say the same thing about the ethanol industry. But I guess from my experience in trading for 15 years all I think when I hear either side is they are just talking up their position. Oil is long gas and wants to sell it, and ethanol is long ethanol and wants to sell it. In the end I personally don't care who wins.

Where I do care and what does matter to me personally and to probably 95% of the fuel comsumming public in this country is what is attainable, sustainable, and has the cheapest cost. Now people will certainly differ on the the definitions of the afore mention properties. Some will say sustainable is for their lifetime because quite frankly once your dead as long as the hearse has enough gas to get you to the cemetary you don't care after that. Others will say I want a clean sustainable world for the next 100 plus generations. To each his own. Attainable is can we get there from here. What will the transition look like, and bringing in the third eliment, price, can we afford to get there from here?

You want ethanol as far as I can tell, to clean up emmisions, reduce dependency on foriegn oil, and beyond that I am not sure. Both worthy goals. However with the development of so much domestic oil we are moving away from energy dependence and starting to attain some of that with oil. As far as the environment we have work to do but constant research and EPA requirements are moving that in the right direction as well. As far as what a 100% to high ethanol energy industry would look like, I don't know. Will it cause other unforseen enviromental impacts, maybe. Take a peek at the article from the 70's titled Why the WHO was forced to parachute live cats into Borneo to understand my unintended consiquinces statement.

Finally we arrive at price. Price which dispite everyones noble causes and efforts is the real driving factor in the discussion. Will it be cheaper or won't it. To overhaul the entire fueling industry will cost literally billions of dollars. Those investments have to be recovered and that means increased pricing. The ethanol economics on the table today will be greatly different in a world where ethanol is the predominent fuel. You cannot deny that fact which leads me back to where I and 95% of the consumming public started from which is price.

Finally as I have said again and again where does all the ethanol in this new world order come from.

See I can telll you I don't care who wins (ethanol or oil) which I don't, and I can not say a word about performance or hurting anyone's engine, and still raise real concerns about the future of ethanol.

I don't have a problem with ethanol, I have a problem with all those other sticky little issues because logistics is what I do for a living and I have seen many a brilliant idea die slow and miserable deaths due to logistics and implementation and if ethanol wants to win they need to come to the table with that information because as yet they have not. Your buddies at the Renewable Fuels Association are to busy fighting over table scraps (10 or 15% blends) and not looking at the big picture.



[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 5/7/2013 2:57:30 PM EST]
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 10:55:59 AM

borsht,

All this guy did was call out the petroleum industry for its vile actions in HINDERING the choice you claim to be seeknig. They only want people to use gasoline. We rail about the slanderous claims against ethanol. These are all proven wrong. It doesn't matter to me if you can buy your pure gas in any way. I have had it with an industry that affects every aspect of your life and mine controlling the entire economy of the world.

It's time people realize the abuse thay have taken at the hand of petroleum and go for the alternatives. Not by law but out of common sense. And when you make claims of automotive damage and food pricing that are false, they appeal to emotions. No "facts" from the oil industry have ever been real facts.

By all means use your gas, but why do the likes of you and others feel the need to promote the lies about ethanol? That's what I don't get man.
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borsht
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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 10:42:57 AM

hello brerrabbitTX
There are some on this board who proclaim they are truth seekers.
But it appears that truth is escaping them, because they are just talkers and not listeners.
I appreciate your posts and tdoilers posts, it is obvious that you have a position on this issue as do I. You appear to have what used to be good old American Common Sense.
Actually once upon a time in college the idea of methanol and or ethanol intrigued me. It was a fuel that could be made anywhere with a myriad of organic products. But in the end, it has to be an enterprise, it needs to become ubiquitous. And it hasn't it has been taken over by the corn ethanol corn growers, and they have forced down upon us by 'environmental' government force. Your points about free to chose are excellent. We really don't have a pragmatic choice.
It reminds me of the freedom the people at Slab City California have.
No rules, no property taxes, but are they really free to choose. In the absolute they are free to choose to do one thing, live in slab city.
That's how we are free to chose our gasoline.
Economically, the U.S. cannot become energy independant on corn alcohol
If we ran all our cars and trucks on E85 or higher, there is not enough land in the U.S. to produce the corn. We by necessity would be importing alcohol from Brazil or other countries that produce it from cain sugar.

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tdioiler
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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 4:07:00 PM

I read the article and have just as many issues with the author as he did with those he abused.

Seems like the ethanol group starts off any discussion with berating others into submission.

Second, of the many points the author begins the rebuttal with "...but you are insane." I could find a few issues with his as well. For instance, the point #5 covers the subsidy issue based a 2007 study compared to oil industry subsidies. First, the direct subsidies to ethanol increase from 2007 levels, and to blame a bunch of wars on greed with oil instead of fighting a bunch of cave dwellers that don't control any oil production is "..insane."

In most of the authors rants, he never produced any backup to how he came up with his points. Most are just as '... sensationalism masquerading as journalism." as he claims the video producer used. So why is Mr. Rauch any better?

And the author wants to trust his insight to Ed Begely Jr.? He's an actor (not a really good one either) and sort of nutty with his use of bicycle generator to make toast? His Happy Meal was missing the toy there.

And The Auto Channel isn't really independent. Where do they get the vehicles they test? They are not the Consumers Union who buy their own test vehicles, are they.
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 12:06:26 PM

The point of my verbose response was this. Yes we have a chioce about everything in our lives. We can lay in bed till we die if we choose. We can sell everything we own and move to a tropic island and live on the beach if we want. Many things in our lives are not subject to free will however if we choose to participate in certain ways of life. Some would eat lobster and caviar everynight if the could but sadly for them economic considerations preclude such activity. So while certain choices are in the absolute, you are not forced to buy E-10. Others are driven by other factors well outside of your ability to change things. Budget dictates I spend $x.xx in transportation a week and to buy clear instead of E-10 it would cost me over that amount then I cannot economically do it. Thousands if not millions of Americans are forced to make these economic choices everyday on everything not just gas.
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ggg452
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 11:52:06 AM

Don't go over the deep end... hold up and relax... sometimes we get caught up in our own rhetoric.
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 10:41:44 AM

No I am not forced to buy E-10. I am not forced to buy anything. I can go live in the woods, eat nuts and berries or kill my own food, dig my own well for water and weave my own home grown cotton into fabric to make my own clothes.

Even at those extremes I have to admit that to cultivate the crops, kill the animals for food, and possibly build my own shelter and dig my own well I will need tools. Now I can revert to cave man or native tribal ways and fashion such tools out of rocks and trees. But the reality is I have moved pass that stage and have the luxury of buying power tools and guns to shoot prey. Additionally I work for a living and do fairly well so that I can buy the necessities of life. Because I do not have unlimited resources (in this case money) I must make decisions about the allocation of my resources. I will freely admit that I am no where near the likes of Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet. Therefore basic economic doctrine dictates that I will make choices on how to utilize my limited resources. This is an event that has occured since the beginning of time man has walked on this earth. It is an undeniable truth. Therefore while one can claim that their is no force, be it law, threat of violence, or loss of freedom that can force us to act in the affirmative, if we as individuals do not want to take that course of action. In some instances there are consiquinces, don't file your taxes and you can be fined and in severe enough cases jailed. The list goes on.

In this case you are advocating that people have a choice to not purchase E-10. You are correct. As an individual I do not have to buy motor fuel of any kind as there is no civil or criminal penalty assocoated with the action or lack of action. That is an absolute. However getting back to the allocation of limited resources we find that due to the life style I have chosen and the lifestyle many in this country have chose we live away from public transportation, to far to bike to work and therefore need a means of conveyance. We could have chosen at various points, electric cars, or vehicles fueled by something other than gasoline distilled from oil. Because the most economical and cheapest form of conveyance was an automobile with an internal combustion engine, that is what the vast majority of Americans chose. Another reason for choosing the automobile was the fact that a very large network of fueling stations were available along our daily routes to and from work and the places we needed to go.

Now at some point Congress passes the RFA and around the same time the EPA declares portions of the US as high impact areas and mandates that only certain blends of fuels can be sold in these areas. Specifically in my area all fuel sold must contain 10% ethanol. In extremely rare cases non ethanol blended fuel is available at higher octanes if you certify it for off road use, such as boating, racing, ATV's etc. It is not meant for street vehicles. Over 100 miles away in just about any direction one can acquire "clear" non ethanol blended fuel. This however means using 200 miles worth of gas to get non ethanol blended fuel.

So do you have to buy E-10 or face legal consiquinces? In a narrowly focused world no you do not have to, so one might deduce you have choice. In the absolute you have choice.

But in the real world where we all live with limited economic resources we must make the decision that we can afford. That means that we buy E-10 because it is readily available at the stations located along the route we travel each day. Many Americans cannot afford the added cost of driving the additional miles to attain clear gas. Most cannot afford the expense of a new vehicle that burns diesel fuel. Many certainly cannot afford and there is not much practicality of owning an electric car.

So yes you have a choice to not buy E-10. But you also have a choice to not buy food, you have a choice to not buy clothes, or provide yourself with shelter. We live in a country with free will to a great extent. But if one is being intellectually honest then to say you have a choice whether to buy E-10 or not then they are not living in the real world, dealing with absolutes and missing the entire point of this discussion as well as most discussions on these boards.

Bottom line, do you have to buy E-10, no. Economically is it realistic to not buy E-10 in many areas of the country? no.



[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 3/25/2013 10:45:54 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 8:24:32 AM

brerrabbitTX, you are still failing to prove that you are forced to buy E10. Your personal comments do not change that.
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Banjoe
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 8:18:01 AM

brerrabbit, in spite of the inherent impossibility of your teaching program, I still much enjoy your flying lessons.
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 5:01:47 PM

Your complete and total lack of understanding of finance, taxation and economic conditions mean that trying to explain this to you is equivilent trying to teach a pig to fly, it won't happen.

But lets ask this question. If there was no ethanol blended product within 100 miles of you would you drive 100 miles there to buy it and 100 miles back for each tank full?

There is choice, and then there is economic choice. The proper application here is that there is no economic choice because it makes no financial sense to drive 200 miles round trip to acquire "clear" fuel, and it makes no economic sense to convert to a diesel vehicle just so you don't have to buy ethanol blended fuel. If you cannot understand that then you have absolutely no common sense and discussions with you becomes pointless.
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 3:57:20 PM

brerrabbitTX you responded to my post

"How exactly are you forced to buy E10? What is your limit and penalties if you do not accomplish the bare minimum?"

claiming that you don't have choices, at least not valid to you. First of all, since you did not mention diesel I simply pointed out to you. Second of all, you failed to explain how you are forced to buy E10. Do you care to give it one more try?
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 3:23:06 PM

Forgot to mention diesel? I do not drive a vehicle that uses diesel. If you are suggesting that I purchase a diesel vehicle to afford me choice, why would I do that? I own four vehicles that all run on gas or rather E-10. They are all paid for. If you say for me to have choice I simply need to buy a diesel vehicle then you are forcing me to a situation alluded to in my first response which is spend considerably more money to have a choice. New vehicle to buy diesel or 200 mile round trip for clear gasoline may be choices to you but since they cost more money than the benifit received then they are not "choices".
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 9:17:25 AM

brerrabbitTX you forgot to mention diesel fuel.
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 12:31:01 PM

"How exactly are you forced to buy E10? What is your limit and penalties if you do not accomplish the bare minimum?"

Since I live in a mandated area as put forth by the EPA and state regulatory agencies I buy E-10. I have no issues with it. That's because as I have repeatly stated I am not anti ethanol, I am just asking what are the long term plans and what are the long term costs?

But to answer your question there are no penalties for not using E-10 other than financial penalties associated with acquiring "clear" gas. To get it I would have to drive a minimum of 100 miles (one way) to purchase it and then drive another 100 miles home. What is the point of using 200 miles worth of gas to get clear gas? There is no way you can call that having choice, where I live there is no choice. Oh and before you go there, yes I can get clear premium in my market area at a very few select places for 50 to 60 cents a gallon more than E-10. No matter how you spin it that is not choice.

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JustMe10
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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 7:41:52 AM

How is this a sham?
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giwan
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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 11:00:50 PM

sham how?
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tdioiler
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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 9:03:55 PM

Quite interesting you still read things off the internet as 'truth'. They are the "biggest independent" on what measures and they still don't have to worry about printing garbage because the internet still has no oversite (sic) police.

Just rented a Chrysler FFV minivan for an 800 mile trip. I used two tanks on regular gas, and two tanks on E85 ( had a hard time finding a station for the second fill). Results?

Regular gas = Avg MPG was 24.2, all highway. OBD had slightly lower @ 24.1
E-85 = Avg MPG was 19.6, all highway. OBD had higher @ 19.8??

Either way, lower MPG, but not as bad as I thought might happen. Still the lower price didn't really make up for the lost mileage, but I didn't have to pay any extra for the FFV, and van ran the same on both.
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Dewdude19
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 5:16:33 PM

Thanks
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2013 3:32:03 PM

tdioiler, some of these points describe you 100% correctly.
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 9:41:47 PM

There you go again Hannie,

Only YOU speak the truth and all others are :

Lies
stupid
greedy (ok, they really are)
dirty tricksters
idiots to see alcohol is safe even to drink

Do you have some beads and blanket to trade as well??
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Banjoe
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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 7:23:37 AM

Thanks for posting this Hannie59.

Hard to be confused where the author stands and there is no lack of bias in the writing. Still, there are some pearls in this essay that make it a good read.
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EvergreenON
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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 5:59:39 AM

When they are not agree they just try to find a way to discard the information
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SilverStreaker
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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2013 10:24:37 AM

The oil industry tries all kinds of dirty tricks to push their product: Fracking lobbyists try to 'withdraw' fraudulent, failed petition
"After a petition urging Colorado officials to allow fracking was voted down, an ugly truth emerged: most of the signatories didn’t know their names were on the paper. The lobbyists behind the bid are now trying to remove the petition from public record."
"investigation revealed that almost half of the signatures were fabricated or signed on behalf of business owners and not their businesses. Some signatories claimed they never endorsed fracking, knew nothing about the petition, or were misled and didn’t know they were signing it as an individual."
"But once a petition is part of the public record, it can’t be withdrawn or removed."
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 12:14:33 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "According to you etahnol shills, no one is "forcing" me to buy e-10, yet taht's all I have availble to me for purchase..."

How exactly are you forced to buy E10? What is your limit and penalties if you do not accomplish the bare minimum?

also

"If you didn't want to use gasoline (with Ethanol in it) there were other fuels you could use." written by Shockjock1961 himself/herself.

Funny thing is that Toyota recommends E10, for performance and longevity reasons, yet that is the only part of the Toyota Owner's Manual that you do not recognize. How is that?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 5:23:20 PM

Hannie59, good find!
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 4:15:20 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "According to you etahnol shills, no one is "forcing" me to buy e-10, yet taht's all I have availble to me for purchase..."

How exactly are you forced to buy E10? What is your limit and penalties if you do not accomplish the bare minimum?

Funny thing is that Toyota recommends E10, for performance and longevity reasons, yet that is the only part of the Toyota Owner's Manual that you do not recognize. How is that?
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 4:09:34 PM

Marc J. Rauch, Executive Vice President/Co-Publisher of The Auto Channel, posted a lengthy diatribe on the American Petroleum Institute’s recent lawsuit on the EPA’s approval of E15 blends in newer vehicles. Read it here, and note the title: “Gasoline Whores File Frivolous Lawsuit in Attempt to Derail American Energy Independence.” He is mad. The lawsuit itself is not all that interesting. What is interesting, I think, is how willfully blind the author is to a number of realities that put the successes of the ethanol industry into perspective.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 4:00:12 PM

"Cant say I agree with that statement shocky but the rest is true"

So what you are saying is that the blogger has an agenda to see gasoline banned yet you can believe the propaganda that he spews?

What a laugh!

"They have also mischaracterized, again, the EPA’s E15 waiver; making it sound like it wasn’t just a recommendation, but that it is a mandated imperial order."

What's the reason that E15 was implemented? Oh yes so that the ethanol industry could break thru the "blend wall". With the Feds increasing the minimum usage mandate year after year, how long before it becomes that E-15 is all that you can buy? According to you ethanol shills, no one is "forcing" me to buy e-10, yet that's all I have available to me for purchase...

"And from reading the author's writings, his only goal is to loosen you and your oil buddies grip on all."

I guess you missed his posted agenda at the end...

He too must work for Big Ag or the ethanol producers...


[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 2/5/2013 4:02:49 PM EST]
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:53:22 PM

Cant say I agree with that statement shocky but the rest is true. You do not understand how to seperate fact from fiction. I would cite this as the most important part of that article...and it's all true...

They have also mischaracterized, again, the EPA’s E15 waiver; making it sound like it wasn’t just a recommendation, but that it is a mandated imperial order. They referred to a recent AAA warning about E15 causing engine damage as if AAA conducted their own conclusive testing of the fuel. But AAA didn’t, they relied on the lies given to them by the oil lobby and then invented some of their own gross exaggerations to make the warning seem more urgent. It’s just more malarkey; hot stinky grotesque batches of malarkey.

But perhaps the single stupidest misstatement that the two presenters made today is when they characterized ethanol as being dangerously corrosive. Let me remind everyone that ethanol is alcohol. Alcohol can be consumed; it can be rubbed on your body; it is used to clean and disinfect sensitive medical instruments that are used on internal organs of the human body; and you can leave an open container of alcohol in a closed room without killing any people who may be in the room. Try doing these things with gasoline. And, if you only use gasoline and you experience water related problems such as freezing, you add alcohol to the gasoline to solve the problem. In my estimation, if there is something that’s bad in ethanol, it’s the gasoline that's added to the alcohol to denaturize it.

Add to that Hannie59s true statements.

E-10 has been helping vehicles run longer for a decade.
Ethanol is our best viable solution at this time for petroleum displacement.
And from reading the author's writings, his only goal is to loosen you and your oil buddies grip on all.


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/5/2013 3:59:57 PM EST]
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firechief
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:51:15 PM

Ethanol is a waste
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,217
Points:2,870,940
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:50:21 PM

Yep, no hidden agenda in this blog...

They post their agenda for all to see...

"Even if ethanol caused some or all of the engine problems that the oil industry pretend that it does, the solution is not to not use ethanol. The solution is to ban the use of gasoline as an engine fuel and to mandate that all engine components be manufactured with regard to alcohol use"

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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:8,584
Points:1,415,110
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 1:55:28 PM

It worked Hannie59. Nice find.

Here is a sample.

"The API guys stated, yet again, that the EPA prematurely approved the use of E15 in vehicles manufactured since 2001. API says that there hasn’t been sufficient study. They conveniently ignore the fact that alcohol/ethanol has been used in vehicle engines since the mid-1850’s; that virtually every independent study of gasoline vs. ethanol shows ethanol is the superior engine fuel; and that even the automobile industry’s top scientists (including the General Motors guys who invented leaded gasoline) believed that ethanol is the better fuel. They also ignore the fact that there are other countries on this planet that have relied on ethanol and various ethanol-gasoline blends for years, with no problems other than those that are customarily experienced by internal combustion engines.

In addition, they gloss over the fact that the government’s testing laboratories didn’t just take up the study of ethanol as an engine fuel in the past couple of years; they have studied ethanol and different blend levels for many, many years. Moreover, Ricardo Laboratories – the world’s leading and most respected private lab dealing with fuel issues – did its own study that shows that E15 can be used in all vehicles going back to the early 1990’s."
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

Posts:964
Points:24,300
Joined:Apr 2010
Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 1:21:47 PM

Sorry about that mistake with the link.

Hope this worked

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/5/2013 1:23:09 PM EST]
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