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Author Topic: E-15 slander and lies Back to Topics
Hannie59

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Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:32:26 AM

API has absolutely no credibility when it comes to talking about E15. That point has never been more clear than in this new study in which they ‘cooked the books’ by using an aggressive fuel mix to try and force engine damage. This isn’t real testing and this certainly isn’t real life. Enough already with the scare tactics. E15 is rolling forward and API needs to get out the way of progress that will result in a stronger country, a stronger economy, and stronger, cleaner environment. E15 will not be stopped by feet dragging and forecasts of fictional faults.
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EMC_John
Veteran Author Springfield

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 10:12:49 AM

Running 10 miles offshore is not where I want to find out what E-15 might do. Already had to add filters and boost maintenance to deal with the effects of E-10. And I am a lucky one not having to deal with an engine full of polyester resin that had formerly been part of the fuel tank.

I'll go with the US Coast Guards opinion that we have concerns about the safety of introducing E-15 into the recreational boating fleet.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 8:57:27 AM

Thanks SS thats a great story. They made 6 minute video doc also on what they have done there. I prefer SS's written version but if you have 6 minutes take a look at the vid.

Ten Million Miles on E85 video

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/15/2013 8:58:45 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 9:24:37 PM

tdioiler asks "I've been looking for a 9-11kV generator. I would like to run E-85 or higher E mixes since storage life on the fuel is more stable. Got any ideas?"
I didn't see any E85 specific small gas engines, but I found:
Ten Million Miles on E85: Who Says Small Engines Can’t Run on Ethanol?: "Each of the 135 go-karts runs an average of 500 hours per year, and in the seven years Novstrup has run the go-karts on ethanol, the E85 has fueled the karts for nearly 10 million miles – 9,450,000 miles, to be exact."
and
Retrofit of a Briggs & Stratton Small Engine to Run E85: "The lawnmower performed excellently in long term tests, lasting two months, being run for up to two hours at a time. Fuel consumption was not significantly increased and the results of fuel consumption tests for an E85 converted carburetor running a lean mixture is comparable to that of a normal gasoline burning lawnmower. The results of the mowing were analyzed and it was determined that the E85 caused no discernable damage over the length of testing performed."
http://web.utk.edu/~scurran/e85kart/
Retrofit%20of%20a%20Briggs%20and%20Stratton%20Small%20Engine
%20to%20Run%20E85.pdf

[Edited by: SilverStreaker at 2/14/2013 9:28:10 PM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 9:16:03 PM

tdioler, I have never said they should enforce a higher mix. I support choice 100% I do not talk BOTH sides, I have ONLY said that the lying and slander must stop. The AMERICAN PETROLEUM SUED THE EPA AND LOST because the falsified a study, fed it to the media, and the media ran with it. They ran with it because they love the APIs money. I have not slandered the API, because by definition slander must be false. By saying the AMERICAN PETROLEUM FALSIFIED A STUDY, I am actually accurate, therefore not slanderous. borsht, the API is the only slanderous party in this entire issue.

Remember folks, E-15 is not mandated. Never was mandated, and never will be.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 2/14/2013 9:21:07 PM EST]
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 9:07:38 PM

Hannie59 is also talk both sides. Give a choice but have the feds enforce a higher mix?? Thats double sided too.

I've been looking for a 9-11kV generator. I would like to run E-85 or higher E mixes since storage life on the fuel is more stable. Got any ideas?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 7:23:06 PM

Hello Silverstreak,
Ford and Crysler both used to recommend full syntheic for use with ethanol.
You mention your 2013 automobiles.
You didn't mention which API rating they suggested.
If you go to the AMSOL site, they recommend that you use API service grade
category SN for ethanol.
Category SM were introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
I repied because API is being slandered on this board, "no credibility, etc. So, I asked,
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 6:12:24 PM

borsht, the 2013 Chevrolet Equinox Owner Manual and the 2013 Ford Focus Owner Manual use regular oil for E0, E10, and E85. Why would you think that you need a special oil for E15? Do you think this topic is about creating E15 slander and lies?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 5:57:17 PM

Hannie, since you say API has no credibility, who are you looking to for guidance on which lubricating oil is compatible with E15?
Whose oil rating do you use for compatibility with all fuels in general and engine design compatibility?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 1:10:54 PM

"5.1% lower mileage would be almost a 3 mpg difference in my vehicle. A difference that is very measurable..."

What kind of car do you drive that delivers 58 miles per gallon?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 12:47:15 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "5.1% lower mileage would be almost a 3 mpg difference in my vehicle. A difference that is very measurable..."

Are you claiming that you don't see that kind of difference from one tank to the next? I doubt it.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 10:34:28 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "5.1% lower mileage would be almost a 3 mpg difference in my vehicle. A difference that is very measurable..."

1.7% increase would gain your vehicle 1 mpg but you are not interested in doing so. Why is that?
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jacksfan
Champion Author Lincoln

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 10:15:09 AM

"Can you say double standard?"

Obviously, you can, shocky. Out of one side of your mouth you say you want a choice. And out of the other side of your mouth, you applaud Maine's foolish, misguided attempt to ban ethanol.

We know you can say double standard, can you say hypocrisy, too?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 10:08:59 AM

"Yes, shockjock, so close that you will never be able to measure a difference in an uncontrolled setting."

5.1% lower mileage would be almost a 3 mpg difference in my vehicle. A difference that is very measurable...
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 10:06:23 AM

Shockjock1961 AKA "The Liar" AKA The Troll did it again. He/she quotes half a sustenance trying to sell his/hers anti-ethanol propaganda. Here is the full sustenance that this Troll did not want you to see.

"The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30, and miles per gallon actually increased by an average of 1.7% when using E10AK made with the specially denatured ethanol. E10AK was the highest mileage fuel in two of three cars."

This Troll is not interested in truth, otherwise he/she would be long gone from here.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 7:34:25 AM

Yes, shockjock, so close that you will never be able to measure a difference in an uncontrolled setting.

And speaking of controlled settings, the same would be true with E15. Ethanol has solvent properties that gasoline does not. If E10 were to be placed in an older car that had only been run on regular gasoline, varnish could dislodge and affect fuel pumps, just like the E15 "study" by API.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 2/4/2013 7:38:38 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2013 2:25:25 PM

Even the ACE recognizes there may be problems using higher concentrations of ethanol then your auto manufacturer recommends. From a recent study that Hannie posted:

"the American Coalition for Ethanol cannot recommend using ethanol blends with higher concentrations of ethanol than those recommended by the vehicles manufacturer"

They also noted that as the concentration of ethanol increased gas mileage decreased in their test sample:

"The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30"

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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2013 2:16:50 PM

"Their sole goal is to keep you using oil forever when better alternatives exist"

Replace ethanol for oil and you have exactly what the ACE is doing. After all, are their lobbying group not the one's pushing the government on the minimum usage mandate for ethanol?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2013 2:13:00 PM

"Choice should be the hallmark of democracy and free enterprise"

Agreed. So why is there a Federal minimium usage mandate for ethanol?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2013 2:11:42 PM

"It is illegal for your warranty to be voided if your vehicle is newer than 2001 model year."

You will note that ethanol and corn lobby made sure the legislation contained wording that would prevent there from being lawsuits when the product damages your car.

So it's illegal to void you warranty if you use it, but it's illegal to sue the producers when your auto is damaged...

Once again. Double standard?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2013 2:08:28 PM

"And if you don't want to use it, then don't. Just don't try to stop putting choice into the hands of your fellow citizens!"

If only the ethanol and corn lobby gave us a choice as to whether we could use ethanol diluted gasoline or not.

Can you say double standard?

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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 9:45:55 AM

I tried to find the actual study. But, did not see it on the searches I performed. From the reviews of the API summary, it appears the new blend was tested on older cars.

It would stand to reason, that if you run a higher ethanol blend through an old rust-bucket, that only had regular gasoline in the tank for years or decades, the accumulated varnish is going to get cleaned out and cause issues. It's the same thing that happened with e10 in the late seventies. Fuel retailers dumped in their first load of ethanol in an 8,000 gallon tank and the crud dissolved and got pumped into cars. That caused problems. Once the tank is clean, it stays clean.
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Meddig
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 5:27:35 PM

Hannie, I just know I'm going to regret asking this, but what do you drive?
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 11:11:50 AM

And what mixture was used isnt relevant as much as the fact that the failure can not be correlated to the fuel. they could have used e20 and beyond and the fuel would have had nothing to do with the failure whatsoever. It was just that the engines failed normally, independent of fuel.

It is natural to lie to protect one's self interests, but unethical at the same time. The API does it every day.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/31/2013 11:12:17 AM EST]
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:50:57 PM

The API cannot claim they did an accurate test in any way shape or form. Their sole goal is to keep you using oil forever when better alternatives exist. Why, do I, have 150,000 miles of wonderful trouble free miles on my two freaking Hyundais, running flawlessly with never an issue on never below e20 and as high as e40 at times? Look, the EPA has tested and proven times over and again that even e30 is fine in any car. All free of agenda and factual. The API? We know what they are.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:40:42 PM

I believe you are referring to the fact that they used E17.
In engineering, when you are testing you need to test beyond the nominal to verify credible results. Thus if one wants to verify that E15 is safe, one does this by testing at the worst case limit allowed for the mix.
Thus this is a maximum credibility test, not a zero credibility test it seems.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:28:18 PM

Hanni says"API has absolutely no credibility when it comes to talking about E15. ..."
Who then has the credibility?
They are the store house of the standards for Oils and fuel products.
One can't say someone has zero credibility just because they don't agree with them.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) is the only national trade association that represents all aspects of America’s oil and natural gas industry.
To lose credibility, It needs to be established that they falsified reports. This in MHO is a very serious inditement.

What is an angressive E15 fuel mix?

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ggg452
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 1:36:31 PM

Choice should be the hallmark of democracy and free enterprise.
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 1:00:27 PM

It is illegal for your warranty to be voided if your vehicle is newer than 2001 model year.

Ford and GM have fully endorsed E-15 for all models 2013 and beyond. For models older than that they can whine all they want but most are out of warranty anyway. And if you want to squeeze more miles out of your engine, ethanol will actually help.


[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/30/2013 1:04:08 PM EST]
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redmountainman
Rookie Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:05:13 PM

When my car company says that E15 will not void my warrenty, I will consider using it. Not before!!!
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:39:51 AM

And if you don't want to use it, then don't. Just don't try to stop putting choice into the hands of your fellow citizens!
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