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Author Topic: Ethanol protects your engine and fuel system Back to Topics
Hannie59

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 2:35:45 PM

Fuels containing ethanol are able to better prevent engine damage through better absorption of water found in the fuel supply.

The addition of ethanol to fuels has eliminated the need for fuel additives like “Heet” in Northern climate to protect the fuel lines and engine from water freezing.

Ethanol added to gasoline boosts engine performance, increases horsepower and runs cleaner through engine valves by removing deposits created by lower-quality gasoline.

Modern day fuels contain waxy solvents that leave deposits that can reduce power and efficiency within 10,000 miles. Ethanol keeps engines cleaner by helping dissolve deposits in critical parts — like the pistons, fuel intake valves and ports.

Ethanol is the lowest cost oxygenator available and when added to gasoline it improves engine performance.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/25/2013 2:36:52 PM EST]
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skh150
Sophomore Author Denver

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 4:13:10 PM

Hoo?
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 5:11:37 AM

It is amazing that folks that are tinker freaks can get nearly the same mileage on high ethanol blends in non ffvs....and many have logged over 100,000 miles with no problems.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 5:09:45 AM

oiler keeps blowing smoke and fouls the air while his is at it.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 12:04:42 AM

"and that could have fixed problems that led to one worker's death at a plant in Belle, WV last year"

So, are you saying that ethanol kills people? If not, I really don't see what that has to do with a discussion of ethanol fuels, seals, gaskets, fuel lines, and other things I have never seen damaged by the use of E10 since 1981..
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 10:05:37 PM

I think the mileage claim has to be changed to "Won't" unless the intent was you MIGHT NOT GET AS BAD MPG as everyone else has had.

Have you ever driven a FFV? I just did a 800 mile trip and checked it out. The results weren't as bad as I would have expected.

But BETTER? Ha, not close. I don't know of any study that showed MPG on a regular gas engine improved with E-10 or E-85. And BTU's are one good for boiling water; ICE will need to be modified to get close to gas efficiency.

So why don't people use alcohol in Molotov bombs if it burns so well?
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BDNNOD
Sophomore Author Seattle

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 7:36:10 PM

ETHANOL IN GAS IMPROVES ENGINE PERFORMANCE AND HORSEPOWER. IT KEEPS DEPOSITS FROM ACCUMULATING AND ARE FOUND ON INTERNAL ENGINE COMBUSTION AREAS AND VALVES AS A RESULT OF USING LOWER COST GASOLINE.

IN SHORT, ITS BETTER FOR YOUR ENGINE AND YOU MIGHT EVEN GET BETTER MILEAGE PER GALLON. A LOT OF THIS DEPENDS ON THE CURRENT CONDITION OF YOUR ENGINE AND YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR.

HAVING A 'HEAVY FOOT' ON THE GAS PEDDLE DOESN'T HELP.

FREEWAY DRIVING IS BETTER THAN LOCAL 'SHORT STOPS & GOES'.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 8:37:18 AM

I see tdioiler continues to run his/hers mouth without any proof.

Cole-Parmer Chemical Compatibility Database
Rubber Chemical Resistance Chart, Rubber Compatibility Chart - Mykin Inc
Custom Adanced Connections Chemical Resistance Chart
Moss Rubber And Equipment Corp. Chemical Resistance Chart

DuPont is not the only one, the others show the same results.

While the list, tdioiler, of your "claims" is growing your failure to provide any proof grows with it.
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mr_thumper
Sophomore Author Fresno

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 12:26:28 AM

If I want corn in my car I'll buy stock in Orval Redenbacher! (sp)
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 10:46:08 PM

Here's what I think of Dupont and their knowledge of compatible seals:

"DuPont under fire by Federal investigators"
Federal investigators said DuPont should examine "all facets of its safety culture" and that could have fixed problems that led to one worker's death at a plant in Belle, WV last year. - Gregory Hale, ISS Source
09/20/2011

The U.S. Chemical Safety Board contrasted DuPont’s failures with its reputation as a company that sells workplace safety programs to other corporations.

“The events before and after the string of incidents in January 2010 suggest that the safety culture (at DuPont) has shifted,” the board wrote in a report. The company “is not operating as it has historically, and could benefit from an extensive examination of all facets of the safety culture, both within the facility and extending throughout the corporation.”

The chemical safety board faulted DuPont for maintenance, inspection and training deficiencies RELATED TO THREE CHEMICAL LEAKS DISCOVERED AT THE BELLE PLANT DURING A 33-HOUR PERIOD in January 2010. The findings echoed those of the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which last year fined the company $43,000 and cited it for “serious violations” in relation to the leaks.
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tdioiler
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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 10:12:14 PM

goldseeker, I'm going to use hannie's basis for arguments here. So the oil companies lie because they want ethanol to fail. Ok, then whats the logic that DuPont wouldn't 'simplify the facts' to get their agenda passed?

Here's the basis for the hannie argument: "Since BP’s announcement, DuPont has confirmed plans to break ground on a 28-million-gallon-per-year cellulosic ethanol plant later this year. " So anything they say is bias and by hannie's terms, Lies and fabrication!http://www.technologyreview.com/news/506666/bp-plant-cancellation-darkens-cellulosic-ethanols-future/
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 10:05:48 PM

The only 'Court' that's been held on the subject of ethanol damage to engines is your smoky mind!

The EPA lab that ran those tests were also sited for many test procedure failures in the past.

And many other test have been complete by others that stated the exact opposite position you take. Granted, both extremes are biased.

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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 8:37:28 AM

The link goldseeker provides has been known for a long time. But the spewers of the misinformation just ignore it and quote unproven petroleum falsified studies. It's just what they do. Scare you out of using the superior fuel.

The EPA has done the testing. And just because it is the EPA people assume they are wrong, solely because they are a government agency. They have done the proper, and the ONLY real scientific testing of E-15, and the subject of ethanol and vehicle wear. The result is there are no problems in fuel injection systems and the ethanol is helpful to the long term viability of the engine and fuel system. Those are the facts. And they held up in court based on real evidence.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 3/14/2013 8:42:45 AM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 3:50:52 AM

"give us consumers the right to choose at the pumps."

Please give consumers a real choice at the pumps. Let us choose a fuel that is not laced with known cancer causing agents benzene, toluene, and xylene. Oh, these same agents also severely degrade many elastomers and hoses.

Ethanol may not be perfect, but it is a lot better than gasoline when it comes to elastomer compatibility.

Oiler and his cronies can blow smoke all they want, but they cannot fool the real experts.

Oh just for giggles, try comparing ethanol and natural rubber on Dupont's compatibility chart. Also take a look how that same natural rubber fares with gasoline.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 3:38:24 AM

Oiler, try telling the polymer chemists at Dupont how to put together a compatibility chart.

In the end we all know who is really full of it!

[Edited by: goldseeker at 3/14/2013 3:39:07 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 9:51:56 PM

tdioiler wrote: "Goldseeker, you full of it! I worked 4 years for a gasket mfg. and saw the specs for high-ethanol ICE had to have different gasket material. So what part of your lower anatomy did you pull that fruit from ??"

Prove it. At the same time here are some other "claims" you have made yet you failed to provide any proof. Add this one to the list.

tdioiler wrote: "I worked with station rebuilders who had to change out equipment to handle E85."

tdioiler wrote: "I ran a dyno for engine test for 13 years. part of that was testing E10 and up mixes. Most engines have to be built for ethanol, else they cause failures. The OEM's put the warranty restriction due to that fact."

tdioiler wrote: "Working in an EPA testing facility for over 10 years, I saw more damage to vehicles running E85 or more on over 200 vehicles from over a dozen OEM's."

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/13/2013 9:52:43 PM EST]
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 9:03:14 PM

Goldseeker, you full of it! I worked 4 years for a gasket mfg. and saw the specs for high-ethanol ICE had to have different gasket material. So what part of your lower anatomy did you pull that fruit from ??

GGG452 is speaking the truth. Let the buying public make the choice. But it ends up to be a few govt folks thinking the green speak is 'truth' that they don't mind shoving free-choice out of the way for their agenda.
So just like Obumma, how's that "investment" (DC speak for spending our tax dollars) in green going so far?
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ggg452
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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 11:34:03 AM

Blah...Blah...Blah... Time for this issue to be put to an end... For every organization that supports Ethanol there is another dead against it... give us consumers the right to choose at the pumps.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 3:05:40 AM

Ethanol has an excellent approval rating with hoses and gaskets, while gasoline does not.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 2:04:16 AM

Spin it how you want. Gasoline is a scheme by Big Oil, refiners, mineral rights holders, to force us not to have a choice.
It's bad for the environment, it is poison, it is flammable, and it is explosive. It is a factor in food prices of all kinds, because as gasoline (and diesel, all oil products) go up, it costs more to distribute everything from soda pop to bananas.
Fixed your post rugby. You are welcome.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 1:47:54 PM

rugby2 wrote: "spin it how you want. but ethanol is a scheme by ADM, farmers, big agriculture, to force us not to have a choice."

Sounds like you are the one who is trying to spin.

rugby2 wrote: "It's bad for mileage, power, (BTU's Per gallon) hoses and gaskets."

Let's see some proof that it lowers engine's power. Let's see some proof, perhaps backed by the chemical compatibility chart(s), that ethanol is bad for hoses and gaskets. At the same time show us how well the paint thinner, one of many chemicals used in standard gasoline, is reacting with "hoses and gaskets".

rugby2 wrote: "causes food prices to go up."

Let's see some proof as well. Please include the cost of transportation, fuel price, as well as dollar depreciation to the mix.
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rugby2
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 10:49:27 AM

Rick Newman has an article on why ethanol is bad. now if we were like Brazil and made it from other then corn, it might make sense.?
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rugby2
Rookie Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 10:44:54 AM

spin it how you want. but ethanol is a scheme by ADM, farmers, big agriculture, to force us not to have a choice. It's bad for mileage, power, (BTU's Per gallon) hoses and gaskets. causes food prices to go up. Google articles about ethanoil for second opinion.
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bar1035
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 7:45:55 AM

I see this topic is still a wasteland
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2013 10:41:35 AM

tdioiler wrote: "Performance is a little broad term."

"Performance" could mean different things but "engine performance" means only one thing. Your failure to comprehend this does not surprise me one bit.

On to your other statements.

tdioiler wrote: "Does E mix improve MPG - Answer is No"

Yes it could. That means your answer is wrong. What a surprise.

tdioiler wrote: "Does E mix reduce water is fuel - in theory, it should but other variables, like storage tank maintenance and weather factors can make deviations so a No for conclusive answer."

Wrong again. Water condensation happens in tanks filled with E0. What happens with water in E0 gasoline?

How about providing some proof to your other wild statements as requested on multiple occasions.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 3/9/2013 10:43:46 AM EST]
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tdioiler
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2013 10:03:41 AM

And your mouth is not the truth, Hannie. Your last line "Ethanol is the lowest cost oxygenator available and when added to gasoline it improves engine performance." isn't totally true.

Performance is a little broad term. So lets try the 20 questions:
Does E mix improve MPG - Answer is No
Does E mix reduce cost relative to cheaper component - Answer is No.
Does E mix reduce gum - Answer is Yes
Does E mix reduce water is fuel - in theory, it should but other variables, like storage tank maintenance and weather factors can make deviations so a No for conclusive answer.

There is just as much money behind the E machine as there is with the oil companies.
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2013 8:00:52 AM

in THIS world. I speak the absolute truth, but there is a huge propaganda machine that both WilW and streetirsx apparently have bought hook line and sinker. I am right, guys, this is absolutely true. it has been proven with years of testing. There are a few reason cars are running longer, and 10% ethanol is a big part of why. But big money is behind the desire to get people to believe to the contrary, and you two are doing exactly what they want you to. Watch this video....What is really going on. Alternatives are all around you.

or this eye opener

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 3/9/2013 8:07:52 AM EST]
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streetirsx
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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2013 8:06:12 PM

in what world..
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WilW
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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2013 7:21:14 PM

This is mostly a diaper-load of misinformation.
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area_51
Sophomore Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2013 6:21:20 PM

I'm confused.
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fatso
Veteran Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2013 9:58:11 AM

it burns cleaner. so that`s a help.
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EvergreenON
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Message Posted: Mar 7, 2013 4:53:16 AM

This is wrong
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 12:13:44 PM

So how does ethanol mix with motor oil? In small 2-cycle engines, chains saws etc. one has to mix oil and gasoline. Where can one get gas, or get oil compatible with both ethanol and gasoline?
One thing ,You can buy premix for $8/quart. $$32/ gallon.
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EvergreenON
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 10:26:19 AM

HB 4013 by Rep. Matt Gaetz of Destin, would repeal the 2008 Florida law that requires gasoline to contain 9 to 10% ethanol. Gaetz stated that the corn-based biofuel causes problems in boats, lawn mowers and old cars, is an efficient net consumer of energy and a unfair government mandate.And also in my car......
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EvergreenON
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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 8:36:52 AM

That is not true. My Kia is 'knowing' a lot seen I use Ethanol and I have lost 5 mpg. In fact it is not suggested for small 2 cylinders engine, it is certainly due to the low quality of this gas.
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goldseeker
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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 3:09:24 AM

Hannie: You are right about ethanol being anhydrous in the US. Ethanol producers use a molecular sieve to remove the remaining water. This is a costly process that drives up the price of ethanol another 20-30 cents per gallon. When the producer sells it to the blender it is usually about 99.9% pure ethanol. In Brazil they use only hydrous ethanol. What some call e100 is actually around 96% ethanol and 4% water.

I would love to have hydrous ethanol here. No need for that nasty concoction we call gasoline.

Since I have been using ethanol blends for about 15 years I have never changed a fuel filter, nor have I had to add dry gas during the winter months.
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tropicalmn
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:01:03 PM


"What is the water content of the fuel when you purchase it?
who verifies that the water content isn't above 1%?"
Ever here of state department of weights & measures?

Q. If water might not be detected, what prevents station owners from "watering down" their gasoline/ethanol blends?
A: Common sense. Gasoline/ethanol blends cannot absorb unlimited amounts of water. The amount they can absorb without causing customer problems depends on the volume of product, the percentage of ethanol, the temperature of the station's in-ground storage tank, the temperature of the customer's gas tank, and the amount of ethanol already in the customer's gas tank.
It would be almost impossible for station owners to water down their product and be sure that none of their customers would experience car problems. Station owners are liable for repairs if they sell water contaminated gasoline. They may also be subject to criminal prosecution if they are intentionally adding water to their product. Most station owners want to avoid those consequences and maintain a good reputation with their customers.
In addition, the Weights and Measures Division regularly samples diesel fuel and gasoline around the state and analyzes them in its laboratory. Laboratory tests can detect even small amounts of water in gasoline/ethanol blends. Station operators are usually happy to be informed of any water found so that they can take corrective action before it causes their customers problems.

[Edited by: tropicalmn at 2/19/2013 3:02:37 PM EST]
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borsht
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:22:16 AM

It is impossible for Ethanol not to have some water in it.
Hannie said” Borsht what the heck are you talking about? Ethanol sold for fuel use in the United States is ANHYDROUS, which means it contains no water.”
Hannie, It is rather apparent you are not a chemist, probably never took chemistry in school, if you did you must have flunked. Ethanol is very hygroscopic and loves to absorb water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrous_ethanol
Hydrogen bonding causes pure ethanol to be hygroscopic to the extent that it readily absorbs water from the air. The polar nature of the hydroxyl group causes ethanol to dissolve many ionic compounds, notably.....
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 8:45:38 AM

tdioiler wrote: "I worked with station rebuilders who had to change out equipment to handle E85. So I can show you over 18 in my area alone. One is NOT a good comparison."

I'm still waiting for you to prove that you have been "Working in an EPA testing facility for over 10 years". I'm also waiting for you to provide detailed documentation on ethanol damaged engines. You can add this to your growing list. Lets see some pictures and detailed explanation on why the gas station equipment had to be changed to handle E85.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:24:02 PM

One station owner is not a good sample.

I worked with station rebuilders who had to change out equipment to handle E85. So I can show you over 18 in my area alone. One is NOT a good comparison.

And Hannie59, have you been to Brazil ??? I have. They don't use ethanol like you think they do. But it does reduce emissions on vehicles they build for the fuel.

Actually they have a growing market for NG conversions.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 9:41:51 PM

ethanol is detremental to carborated engines.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

Motorcycles in particular have problems with ethanol, wheic is not compatible with non metallic floats.
Also, seals start to leak after awhile with ethanol.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/motorcycles-ethanol.htm
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Hannie59
All-Star Author Appleton

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 8:37:05 AM

Borsht what the heck are you talking about? Ethanol sold for fuel use in the United States is ANHYDROUS, which means it contains no water. In Brazil, I beieve they use HYDROUS alcohol in their fuel, which is more like the stuff they put on your arm before they draw blood at the doctor's office. That works great for fuel as well, but here in the US the ethanol used has no water in it.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 1/28/2013 8:40:09 AM EST]
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 7:45:31 AM

$3.00 a gallon for water?

I think that bottled water is more expensive than that, so why lose money selling it so cheap?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 6:42:26 PM

uestion for you:
What is the water content of the fuel when you purchase it?
who verifies that the water content isn't above 1%?
Remember this is a great way to get $3.00/ gallon for water.
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WEPSMAN
Champion Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 6:08:24 PM

Let's see your resourses. I do not agree with all your statements. I bet I can find studies that will say the opposite.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 4:21:13 AM

"So why do the stations have to change equipment when ethanol is being served up in higher concentrations than 10% ??"

Actually they do not. Locally one station owner is using a gasboy pump that is over 30 years old for E85. He has used this pump for over 7 years with no problems.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 11:27:23 PM

All it does for engines... if they can handle it. So why do the stations have to change equipment when ethanol is being served up in higher concentrations than 10% ??

Just like anything else; too much of one thing isn't good.
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 8:35:18 AM

Don't recall the Heet brand in these parts but every gas station made a fortune selling little bottles of alcohol to take care of the winter gasoline icing problems. They (bottles and problems - not gas stations) disappeared when ethanol began showing up in all our gasoline blends.

Haven't had a problem since thanks to ethanol.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 2:25:26 AM

I have not bought heet in about 15 years. And no gasline freeze up. Hmmmm, I wonder why?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 3:44:42 PM

I've never had to buy Heet since using gasohol.
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