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Author Topic: It's official.."GM, Ford announce E15 compatibility with new models" Back to Topics
gamechanger2011

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 2:00:50 PM



"When contacted, GM spokesman, Sharon Basel, environment, energy and safety communications, made it clear that GM was not “approving” E15. “I can confirm that GM's 2012 and 2013 model-year vehicles can use fuel containing up to 15 percent ethanol and is stated as such in our new vehicle owners' manuals,” she replied in an email. “As EPA has changed its regulations to allow E15, we've designed our new vehicles to perform efficiently with this fuel in the event that it becomes more available. We are focused on securing a safe and trouble-free driving experience for our customers and this modification prepares our vehicles for the potential intro of an E15 blend.”

A spokesman for Ford Motor Co. replied to EPM’s inquiry, saying, “We have approved E15 for use in all 2013 Ford vehicles including hybrids and Ecoboost.” Richard Truett added, “We are not retesting any older vehicles to see if they are compatible with E15 and we’re not commenting on the performance of E15.”GM, Ford announce E15 compatibility with new models
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pilotmass
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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2012 4:56:36 AM

Wont use it anyway, so I don't care.
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 12:33:29 PM

I appreciate your love and expertise on debate. I think that it shows. I hope that you will respect others for their love and expertise on ethanol. The pro ethanol group on this site are passionate...no doubt. Do we stick together...yes! So we'll keep on fighting the good fight and taking punches from the anti ethanol group. We're used to it! It gets pretty ugly sometimes! Sometimes I just take a break from it all. But it will never discourage me from doing what we are doing. We believe strongly in what we are doing!
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 12:11:53 PM

gamechanger,
I don't have any problems at all with the way you posted it all. You gave the link for everyone to read and I thank you for that. I am not at all trying to give you a hard time, it's just that it is very interesting to see how each side reacts to articles with their own spin. The head of the IRFA is the one who took the auto manufacturer's words and made them say what he wanted to hear. If someone read an article out of the corn belt they got his words and not the actual quotes from Ford and GM.

My involvement in all of these discussions really center on two things, 1. the discussion about the future of ethanol needs to be much more robust and look at the real barriers to entry it faces, and that discussion needs to be for the whole nation and what all the impacts are. 2. Spin is a powerful thing. Maybe it's the debator in me, I competed from the 7th grade all the way till my sophmore year of college and the one thing that became abundently clear to me during that time was that you could find someone to say anything you wanted to hear if you were willing to look. That instilled in me all those years ago a desire to understand issues and get to the source of the data and what was really said rather than letting a third party interprete the information for me. When you hear it straight from the source you can judge it for what it is. If you hear it through the filter of a third party then you are getting that individuals bias on the subject. I want to form my own opinions and beliefs rather than letting others tell me what something means.

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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 11:53:14 AM

brerrabbitTX....I posted it this way because these were the "first official quotes" by GM and Ford. It makes a big difference to this group!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 10/11/2012 11:53:51 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 11:51:11 AM

REb4...I skipped nothing....I posted the link in full! I chose a paragraph to post...I provided the link....it is up to you to open and read it. You pick paragraphs out of links all the time!

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 10/11/2012 11:56:50 AM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 9:02:16 AM

This is the first paragraph from the link that gamechanger posted.

"General Motors and Ford Motor Co. have made it official. New models vehicles are ready to run on E15. The endorsement is a little less than enthusiastic, however."

This article is from the Ethanol Producer Magazine and was dated October 9, 2012. Further in the article you understand why the writer of the article started it with this paragraph and statement about a less than enthusiastic endorsement. I applaud the magazine for actually giving a factual representation of what Ford and GM said and being intellectualy honest enough to write that first paragraph which pretty well sums up the conflicting stories between the auto manufacturers and the head of the IRFA. They are clearly saying two different things.

GM spokesman goes on to say as quoted in the article:

When contacted, GM spokesman, Sharon Basel, environment, energy and safety communications, made it clear that GM was not “approving” E15. “I can confirm that GM's 2012 and 2013 model-year vehicles can use fuel containing up to 15 percent ethanol and is stated as such in our new vehicle owners' manuals,” she replied in an email. “As EPA has changed its regulations to allow E15, we've designed our new vehicles to perform efficiently with this fuel in the event that it becomes more available. We are focused on securing a safe and trouble-free driving experience for our customers and this modification prepares our vehicles for the potential intro of an E15 blend.”

Now here is the problem. IRFA is saying GM recommends e-15 and thanks them for the endorsement. I read the quote above directly from the GM spokesman and it says Sharon Basel of GM made it clear that the were not "approving" e-15. They have "designed" their new vehicles to perform effciently with this fuel in the event it becomes more available.

How the IRFA can read that statement and come back and say GM is recommending e-15 is beyond me. To this point I have read a number of articles on the news release and they all say the same thing. GM has said they will allow its use, and GM is not approving e-15. However I have also read several articles that only cover IFRA's response which is to thank GM for recommending e-15.

This is the problem with the world we live in today, so much information, so many sources that as a reasonble, thoughtful consumer of news you have to be careful. You have to consider the source, you have to dig into the information to sort out facts from fiction.

This sort of discussion transcends the ethanol debate and cuts to the heart of a bigger issue which is people will believe anything you tell them even in the light of solid evidence to the contrary. If you believe in something you will set logic and common sense aside for the good of the cause.

People need to read with a little more discernment and try to get the real story rather than believing whatever someone tells them.

The story is similar on the Ford side as well but I think the GM story is sufficient to make my point.

[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 10/11/2012 9:07:19 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 8:40:18 AM

"According to a recent Feedstuffs article, E15 has been approved for 2013 Chryslers, 2012 and newer GMs and 2010 and newer Fords. This means the blend is covered under the warranty for these models. However the EPA has rigorously tested and approved E15 for use in all cars and light trucks 2001 or newer. Testing done by the company Riccardo Inc. has shown the blend to be safe for vehicles dating back to 1994 models."

E15 fuels the Big 3
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2012 8:35:48 AM

"Just hours after the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association issued a press release on October 2 thanking General Motors and Ford Motor Company for recommending the use of E15 in their new vehicles, a spokesperson for Chrysler Corporation confirmed that Chrysler is now also recommending E15 for use in 2013 model year vehicles. Thus, Chrysler is joining GM and Ford in giving the 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline blend the green light to be used by motorists."

Ethanol Blend E15 Recommended By Big Three Automobile Makers

"Just hours after IRFA issued the press release stating the news on E15, a spokesperson for Chrysler Corporation confirmed to OPIS that they now also recommend E15 for use in 2013 model year vehicles, joining GM and Ford."

GM, Ford, and Chrysler recommend use of E15
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 11:12:04 PM

Well reb4 thanks for pointing that out. I just read the post and did not go to the link till your post.

I guess I can see why people here don't agree on symantics like allow vs recommend because in the one article you read the first paragraph, read the comments from Ford and GM and then towards the bottom see where the head of the IRFA thanks Ford and GM for recommending the use of e-15.Spin, spin, spin. I got dizzy just reading the article.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 10:46:51 PM

Gamechanger2011, thanks for the post. you skipped the 1st paragraph, which when I went to school was kinda important, have to speak to someone to see if that's still as important as it was way back when... will see a teacher on Saturday evening... I'll try to remember to ask...
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brerrabbitTX
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 10:33:24 PM

I have no problem what so ever with the post. I just find it interesting that this information is very relivant to the discussion on the other thread and actually claifies the point that neither Ford or GM "recommended" e-15 but rather said they would allow it and have accepted the fact that given the EPA's approval of it that would make changes to labeling, owners manuals and the fact that at least GM is designing their vehicles to perform efficiently with the fuel.

All points that are issues in the other posts.
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 6:24:26 PM

brerrabbitTX wrote: "However what is the point of posting this in a seperate post from the other two on this issue?"

If you have a problem with someone else posts, you can always ignore it and move to the next one.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 10/10/2012 6:25:43 PM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 4:54:27 PM

gamechanger2011,

You seem like a nice person who is passonate about ethanol. I can respect that. However what is the point of posting this in a seperate post from the other two on this issue? rysensky? (Can't remember the spelling) is over there raking people over the coals on this issue of changes and you have had words with shock about the difference between recommend, and allow.

I think if both sides would just read what is written, consider the source and take it for what it says the name calling and lying accusations would settle down a little. Clearly what you have posted here says GM is not approving and hence I can assume not recommending but rather saying their new cars can use e-15 and Ford is approving use which is at least more positive but still saying they are not commenting on e-15 performance which again can be interpreted to mean they are not recommending it.

This information essentially validates that usage is being allowed rather than approved which was one of the major arguements.
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2012 2:04:14 PM

“As EPA has changed its regulations to allow E15, we've designed our new vehicles to perform efficiently with this fuel"

To what..."perform efficiently with this Fuel"

No talk of damage to engines or anything like that. Even Gm model years 2012 which in actuality really were made in 2011.

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 10/10/2012 2:05:01 PM EST]
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