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CORNHICK

All-Star Author
Omaha

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2012 11:14:48 PM

why do people fight it. Isn't it good stuff
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2012 1:22:02 AM

AngryTroll, have your mommy give you your meds before she lets you back in your room in the basement to play on your computer.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 8:54:26 PM

" I don't think you have to worry about anyone hurting your investments on this forum."
Now you are just being stupid for the sake of being stupid/\.

"where is is your thesis on renewable wind power that you have been spending so much time defending? ...You didn't think we forgot about that did you? We are all dying for you to enlighten us with your intellectual latitudes on (so called) green energy"

What the hell are you yapping about now?

I am going to introduce you to a new word. I imagine I won't be the only one.
PLONNKKKKKKK!!!
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 6:16:16 PM

Hi SilverStreaker!

I think you got it backwards. We KNOW you are one of the angry little trolls on this forum that is trying to protect his pot of gold. We ALL know that. Your pants have been pulled down several times now. -And if you are going to name-call, please at least TRY be original and don't copy me. Copying is soooo BOOOORING!! You have to be original to keep the readership interested.

Anyway, do you own farmland too? That's GREAT for you!! Did you give up growing wheat and other products that go into bread, etc. in favor of corn to go into the ethanol industry too? It's paying HUGE returns. -Or do you just lease it to one of these huge conglomerates that are advertising on the internet to take over the farming of your land so they can grow corn for ethanol?

Come on, you'll feel better if you come out of the closet. You spend WAY too much time protecting your little pot of gold to not take some credit and step out into the sunshine. Has ethanol made you a millionaire or a BILLIONAIRE off of the misery of rest of us?

I know!! If your not happy running up the cost of bread,, etc., you can round up some dairy farmers in your area and convince them that there's more money to be made in ethanol than with their silly old cows. That way you could charge them a finders fee of say, 10% for doing little more than running a seminar to fill your little pot of gold at a faster rate. In the end, you'd make them rich like yourself in steering them to where the real profits are; and then you would still be helping the remaining farmers that don't buy into your snake oil plan by driving up the price of dairy products when it causes a shortage in that arena too. The sky is the limit for you!!! You can get started today by rounding up some of the other investors trolling this forum. Maybe you guys could even start your own giant leasing company. Cha-CHING!!!

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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 3:57:24 PM

"And then the prices of Canadian farmland up 27% since 2007? Holy Smokes!! I wish my simple house had a fraction of that increase. Cha-CHING!!!!"

It did. You just didn't know when to sell.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 3:16:27 PM

The troll is back. Check out how gasoline futures have exploded since 2009:

Gasoline Futures Almost 3X since 2009!

And then the prices of Canadian farmland up 27% since 2007? Your article attributes this to longer growing seasons.

"By the way, did I mention how much I love paying three dollars for a loaf of plain old store brand bread?"
How much corn is in your bread? What do you think makes up more of the cost of the bread, energy costs or grain costs?
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 1:39:09 PM

Rumbleseat,

Are you still defending the indefensible? I don't think you have to worry about anyone hurting your investments on this forum. It doesn't reach enough voters. By the way... WOW! You guys sure are making a killing on corn. No wonder you guys are putting so much time and energy into it. Check out how corn futures have exploded since 2004:

Corn Futures

And then the prices of Canadian farmland up 27% since 2007? Holy Smokes!! I wish my simple house had a fraction of that increase. Cha-CHING!!!!
News Article:

Canada's Corn Belt Attracts the Hot Money
No wonder you haven't gotten bored after all these years and taken up needlepoint.

Anyway, where is is your thesis on renewable wind power that you have been spending so much time defending? ...You didn't think we forgot about that did you? We are all dying for you to enlighten us with your intellectual latitudes on (so called) green energy. Please point us to those forums so we can attain what Carl Spackler referred to as, "total consiousness".

By the way, did I mention how much I love paying three dollars for a loaf of plain old store brand bread? - Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

www.fueleconomy.gov
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gasscout_1
Veteran Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2012 11:49:58 AM

YES its BETTER
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 10:02:34 PM

"tends to burn older model valves.."
Umm, no, you are thinking of older engines and the the belief that the switch to unleaded gasoline would cause valve problems! The truth is, even that turned out to be little problem for daily drivers, only for engines under a constant heavy load, such as boats, trucks, race cars, etc. The lead acted as a bit of a lubricant, and lead replacements are STILL available on the shelf in auto parts stores, if one is really worried.

It always helps to get the facts straight when posting.
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dlgrote
Rookie Author Stockton

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 6:13:59 PM

tends to burn older model valves..
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 10:12:00 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 7:45:58 PM

GM, some years back the insurer was going to write off my wife's car. The dealer was able to bring the cost of repair below the write-off point by sourcing some decent used parts, and the insurer accepted that. She got several more years and another 100,000 km before we replaced the car.
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 7:18:19 PM

"What about offering a choice of straight gasoline out of one hose, and 100% ethanol from another hose. "

I agree with that. You can differentiate between the products that way. A couple years ago, I think it was the Farm Bureau, sent a letter out to members indicating they wanted to legislate Iowa for a mandatory blend. I wrote a hard copy letter back objecting. It is just my opinion to market ethanol as a distinct product.

For background, most Iowa stations sell 87 octane regular gasoline and 89 octane 10% ethanol. It's been that way since 1978.

But in many states, ethanol is the substitute for MTBE. When the pump says the fuel contains ethanol, it's often in a concentration much lower than 10%.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 6:43:59 PM

bobbyfingers wrote: "It costs more to produce a gallon of Ethanol than it does to refine gasoline."

"MYTH: More energy goes into producing ethanol than it delivers as a fuel.

FACT: In terms of fossil energy, each gallon of ethanol produced from corn today delivers one third or more energy than is used to produce it."

Ethanol Myths and Facts - U.S. Department of Energy

Ethanol has a positive energy balance while gasoline has a negative energy balance. That means you got it backwards.

bobbyfingers wrote: "Ethanol despite anything you may have been told or read, is B.A.D. for your car, and especially your marine engines. It is terrible for the gaskets, O-rings and seals, it can ruin the injectors,"

The rubber and plastic chemical resistance charts do not speak very well about common chemicals found in gasoline, like benzene, xylene, or toluene. Ethanol looks much, much better. Again, sounds like you got it bacwards.

Rubber Chemical Resistance Chart
and
Plastics Chemical Resistance Chart
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bobbyfingers
Rookie Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 3:37:47 PM

Ethanol despite anything you may have been told or read, is B.A.D. for your car, and especially your marine engines. It is terrible for the gaskets, O-rings and seals, it can ruin the injectors, and actually will REDUCE your mileage, that's right, it will reduce your mileage, so there is ZERO benefit for you, your vehicle or the environment.

It costs more to produce a gallon of Ethanol than it does to refine gasoline.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 2:50:06 PM

Sorry to hear about the accident GM1954. I don't know if this will be of any help to you, but a few years back I got in an accident with my convertible. The adjuster wanted to total it out, so I took it to shop that was pre-approved by my insurance carrier. Somehow the repair shop was able to write-up the repair work to get me back on the road, where the plain old adjuster was not. I assume it was a basic case that the adjuster had no motivation to bring in the repair write-up at a reasonable amount, whereas the repair shop could knock off a few bucks here or there to avoid the loss of a sale. either way, I did not care because it got my car happily back on the road. -Good Luck.

TDIdriver - I like your ideas and would like to expand on them. What about offering a choice of straight gasoline out of one hose, and 100% ethanol from another hose. They basically do it with diesel fuel now by having that separate hose at the pumps. That way, the ethanol heads could fill up at 100%, or mix any variety they want. The pure gasoline people would be satisfied with being able to fill up with their fuel of preference. Then we could let the market decide via consumer choice.

www.fueleconomy.gv
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MikeCapeCoral
Champion Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 10:12:33 AM

Back to all gasoline please.
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TDIdriver
Sophomore Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2012 10:33:12 AM

Its not a fight. Its a choice, at least in places of free marketing without mandates. Here in the Tulsa area more stations are providing 100% ethanol free gasoline. Even the ubiquitous Quik Trip Corporation has decided to provide the choice to purchase untainted fuel at their landmark store at 51st and Peoria. I have computed my cost per mile with 10% ethanol splash blends and gasoline. Gasoline costs me less per mile.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 5:16:58 PM

Best deer story I heard was from a client. He was towing a camper trailer with his van. A deer ran across the road and leaped BETWEEN the van and the trailer. The damage was quite impressive.
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 3:13:09 PM

No one hurt. We made a call to the sheriffs department and left. We were so far down the road that I didn't want to take a chance on getting hit. It was pitch black last night and the traffic was considerable So, I never got a full look at the animal. Big hindquarters though.

My wife was driving and knew she was in a spot where deer crossed. She was scanning the sides of the road for deer and had slowed down. This thing bolted between the oncoming car and us. We didn't see it until it was two feet in front of the right headlight.

The downside of this whole thing is the conversation with the MetLife person went from "just take it into a local shop and get it fixed" to "why don't we send out an adjuster." I guess if enough "panels" are damaged on an older vehicle, they total the car. Didn't want to hear that.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 12:29:23 PM

GM, I hope everyone was uninjured. Venison for dinner?
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 8:08:07 AM

Well, that Holiday Inn thing almost came to reality, last night. We hit a larger than average buck last night with the Tahoe. Hit hard enough to twist the bumper, shift the left fender, and drain coolant.

He was like a ghost. Didn't even have a chance to hit the brakes.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 4:47:51 AM

GM1954. Well said. Did you ever notice how many "armchair experts" are in here?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 11:47:18 PM

AngryCub, I have used E10 in various vehicles since 1981.
I may be mistaken, but I think over 30 years of experience with the fuel trumps your stupid one-tank test.
My Escort stabilized at a slightly higher mileage once all fill-ups in Manitoba became E10. My Aerio has virtually identical mileage, as does my wife's Cavalier.
My mileage actually dropped a little bit on our last holiday trip when we were in jurisdictions where only a few stations had E10 and several fills were E0
Even that one trip makes your one-tank test look silly.

Your personally insulting ramblings reek of desperation for a fight, not a rational discussion based on factual findings, all of which have been published in these forums many times over the past years.

Take your stuffed toys back in the closet and give Mommy back her laptop.
I prefer not to engage in juvenile mental combat with an unarmed opponent.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 8:14:35 PM

GM1954,

I'll say this for you, I appreciate your confidence and courage. I wish the others had a fraction of what you've displayed.
And you have a sense of humor ta' boot.

Good form old man. Well done.
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 6:18:33 PM

" You are not a scientist."

No, I'm not. But, I do have 120 hours of udergrad and graduate math, chemistry, and physics, engine building experience, and I might stay in a Holiday Inn this evening.

I think I have more common sense than most scientists.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 5:32:18 PM

What!!?? ARE YOU TWO TROLLS AT IT AGAIN??! I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TWO TO STAY UNDER YOUR BRIDGE!!!

Let’s see... it looks like GM1954 has taken off his magician hat and has put his Dr. Scientist hat back on. Now listen up! He has somm learnin to do us. Cause nun of yoose ani’t as egumacated as much as him. He has some important information about Octane now. His latest sales pitch is that it is the higher Octane that gives Ethanol it’s superior miles per gallon over pure gasoline. That’s why ALL the highest MPG vehicles on the market ALL REQUIRE high octane fuel. It’s science, don’t you see? It’s good for puppies too. And you don’t hate puppies do you? -WELL, DO YOU!?

Only… that isn’t true, is it? Some of the best scientific minds in the world that are employed by these car companies to squeeze every possible MPG they possibly can from these vehicles are using the LOWER octane blends; now don’t they? So Dr. Scientist. STOP YOUR SHAM. You are not a scientist. You just try to play one on this board. I told you before, octane is a measure of the rate of burn. It is not reflective of the available power AT ALL. Now, if the best vehicular scientists in the world can’t get modern FFV’s to lose no less than 25% of their MPG when running on this garbage, how can the rest of us not be losing the same or more?

***** Read the truth about ethanol being a fraud below *****

***** Do not believe the ethanol investors that post on this site! They are in it to take your money! *****

***** Do your own testing at home *****

US Department of Energy
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 3:44:07 PM

Work and heat are two different things. All the heat in the world doesn't do a thing unless it's converted to kinetic energy over time. An example would be to compare TNT to gasoline. A pound of gasoline has much more heat energy than a pound of TNT. Yet, if you wanted to convert that heat energy into kinetic energy to move, say, a brick wall. Which one would you use.

Grumpycat would pick the gasoline, of course, because he only knows what a btu is. But, most folks would go with the TNT. Reason is, even though TNT has 15 times less heat energy per pound, it releases that heat energy in milliseconds and transfers energy at a rate of 16,000 feet per second or thereabouts. A pound of gasoline would be great at starting the coals on the grill or pushing your car a couple miles. So, in the car engine, TNT releases the energy just a little too fast to be practical.

The same physics principles apply to ethanol and gasoline. Both release energy at different rates. Ethanol releases energy slower than gasoline. It The 105 octane rating is the relative marker. At much higher absolute compression and higher tempertaure, ethanol is still slowly combusting, when regular gasolinne has gone ping. So it can be and usually more efficient at extracting energy per pound of fuel than gasoline.

it's not the btus, it's how they are used.

Now grumpy cat, show me some of that thermodynamics knowledge you got there.

[Edited by: GM1954 at 11/9/2012 3:46:16 PM EST]
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 2:32:33 PM

"So, what. BTU content is not work. There is no direct relationship between the two."

ROTFL

You wouldn't pass any thermodynamics class with an instructor of any repute.
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 2:27:56 PM

"AngryCubera, over 5 years ago, I stopped listening to idiots with no significant ethanol blending experience like you and started blending ethanol in my two non-FFVs. I kept good records along the way so that I could determine for myself whether is was cost effective to use ethanol blends instead of regular gas. I've found that I save money using high ethanol blends. Because the whole reason of this GasBuddy website is to help people save money with their fuel purchases, I've posted my results."

Where are your results published?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 11:25:01 AM

AngryCubera, over 5 years ago, I stopped listening to idiots with no significant ethanol blending experience like you and started blending ethanol in my two non-FFVs. I kept good records along the way so that I could determine for myself whether is was cost effective to use ethanol blends instead of regular gas. I've found that I save money using high ethanol blends. Because the whole reason of this GasBuddy website is to help people save money with their fuel purchases, I've posted my results.

The only way that people will know whether ethanol blends are cost effective in their vehicles is to try it. I post to help people keep an open mind about it, as opposed to idiots with no experience posing as experts. Please tell us about your vast ethanol blending experience. Also, who's paying you to be posting all the anti-ethanol rhetoric?
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 8:59:35 AM

What a waste of valuable cyberspace. angrycubera is a textbook example of not knowing what you don't know.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2012 8:43:10 AM

Well well well. What have we here? I wake up to find three angry little trolls protecting their pots of gold. It kind of reminds me of Billy Goats Gruff in reverse.
Let’s take them one at a time, shall we kiddies?

Rumbleseat, you want proof? I’ll give you proof. No one, and I mean NO ONE, spends years of their life researching and defending a product without being personally invested in it. It is simply not worth the time or the energy for you to troll these forums defending THIS particular product. At the very least, you would have gotten bored and found something else to do with yourself like needlepoint a very, VERY long time ago. I have NO personal interest in this product or any other that is discussed on this website and therefore am defending NONE. However, if you wish to prove me wrong, I’ll give you the chance. Please direct this forum’s readership to the other forums where you have defended Tupperware as being superior to disposable storage bags. …Or, how about Kleenex as being superior to cotton handkerchiefs because they are better at preventing the spread of germs. …Cotton diapers over disposable diapers because they help keep the landfills from being filled up? -We don’t care. … I Know! Wind Power!! You must have a VERY detailed dossier on the merits of Wind Turbines. Let’s hear about that. Just point us to any other product that you have defended so vigorously as the Ethanol Industry and we will all decide your true motives for ourselves. Please, I implore you, we EAGERLY await further discovery of your intellectual latitudes.

GM1954. Sleight of hand again??? Hocus Pocus, out of focus. Houdini you are not. Now it’s BTU’s? We are not heating a house, we are powering vehicles. What next, ‘ethanol is clearer in a beaker than gasoline so that MUST prove it is better than pure gas’?? The US Department of Energy webpage I directed everyone to cites the report they are referencing at the bottom of that webpage. Have you ever heard of Google?

SilverStreaker… My favorite troll of the three. Come on,,, at least GM1954 had the courage to admit his investments. Where is your courage? It’s okay, it’s just us girls here having a friendly discussion over coffee. You’ve been fighting for this product for SOOOO long. It’s time you took some credit. You’ll feel better once you’ve come out of the closet … I promise.
Anyway, to answer your question of me, I have NEVER backtracked on ANYTHING I have said in this forum. So … SOMEBODY GRAB A FIRE EXTINQUISHER!!! SilverStreakers PANTS ARE ON FIRE!!

Now SilverStreaker, on to the article you are directing us to. It is just that, an article. There are NO facts or actual research cited in it with respect to the claims made in the section you want us to read. That makes the article something called an “OPINION” when it does not have any data/research cited to back up the claims. Obviously, the writer has a much different definition for the phrase, “little impact on fuel economy” than most of the readers of this forum. However, that matters not since “little impact” is not a statistical amount that can be measured so it is inconsequential and not verifiable.

And so ends the story of our three angry little trolls, as they eagerly await the next reader they think they can pimp their product to. They’ll tell that reader things like the lame and tired old, “I’ve never noticed a difference”, or “alcohol uses more oxygen”, or “there’s no mileage difference in differing blends of gasohol”, or “ethanol has pixie dust in it so don’t you think that makes it better?”. If you answer “no” they’ll get ANGRY and call you ignorant; say you are a victim of propaganda and throw other insults at you while trying to hide their pots of gold.
Now… BE GONE TROLLS!!! GET BACK UNDERNEATH YOUR BRIDGE!!!! YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY HERE!

****** Forum readers beware! This forum is polluted with trolls that are making money off of either convincing you, or FORCING you to buy their product through government mandates. They will say anything to pimp their product in an attempt to convince you that their snake oil is the best. Find the truth by doing the research on your vehicles for yourself if you are still able to. ******* NEXT PIMP!!! YOU’RE UP!!!!

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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 7:11:21 PM

AngryCubera, your post is idiotic and ill-informed, not to mention personally insulting.
But you aren't the first troll to call me an ethanol shill. Other trolls have called me a Big Oil shill.
So, if you can call me invested in ethanol, then I insist you have proved conclusively you are heavily invested in Big Oil.
There is no other possible reason for your abrasive manner and your inaccurate information.
Prove me wrong, then prove that I am invested in ethanol.
If you can't prove both assertions, then look in the mirror, you will see the troll!
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 6:43:42 PM

"If you read the US DEPArtment of Energy report that was cited, the scientists specifically tested Flex Fuel vehicles and posted the results that they discovered when running the FFV's on E85 fuel. "

You linked to a web page, not a "report".

"Quote from the US Dept of Energy - "Since ethanol contains less energy per volume than gasoline, FFVs typically get about 25-30% fewer miles per gallon when fueled with E85." "

So, what. BTU content is not work. There is no direct relationship between the two.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 5:48:54 PM

AngryCubera, why do you think you can disregard the US Dept of Energy's statement "FACT: Ethanol blends in use today have little impact on fuel economy or vehicle performance."

You said "are you claiming to be smarter than the scientists at the US Department of Energy too?"
Are you?

You said "Please, don't listen to anyone else. If you still have the ability in your area, do your own one tank test. It is the only way you will find out if this product is right for you."
Except for the one tank part, this is about the only thing that you have said that has any credibility. People need to try it to find out if it is right for them. Or are you going to backtrack on this one, too?
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 4:23:44 PM

GM1954 wrote: "AngryCubera, EPA test do not test with ethanol. The results are calculated and mileage ESTIMATED. The fuel used is indolene clear, a reference standard."

Please stop with the sleight of hand. No one is talking about the EPA or what they test with. And indolene is a standardized test gasoline free of additives; not an additive that can be added to fuel for testing, or taken out to make it "indolene clear". ...Or for that matter, to this forum for diversion.

If you read the US DEPArtment of Energy report that was cited, the scientists specifically tested Flex Fuel vehicles and posted the results that they discovered when running the FFV's on E85 fuel.
Quote from the US Dept of Energy - "Since ethanol contains less energy per volume than gasoline, FFVs typically get about 25-30% fewer miles per gallon when fueled with E85." They did not test regular vehicles, only the vehicles that are designed to run on this garbage. From that data, I think it is safe to concude that if a vehicle designed to run on this garbage will lose 25-30% mpg, then a vehicle not designed to run on ethanol blends will do much worse. ...Much like I told you previously about my non-FFV car getting 8 mpg less and my non-FFV boat getting 25% less distance on a tank of gas when filled with a 10% mix.

I am tired of paying more for less, as are many of the other people reading this forum. Again, it is immoral for you to be lining your pockets with gold by forcing your product on people who don't know where their next meal is coming from, or if the sherif will be knocking on the door tomorrow to put them out on the sidewalk. Its over. Ethanol is exposed.Next pimp! ... You're on deck!!

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smoketown
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 3:48:11 PM

I would avoid this ETHANOL as much as possible
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 3:29:55 PM

AngryCubera, EPA test do not test with ethanol. The results are calculated and mileage ESTIMATED. The fuel used is indolene clear, a reference standard.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 3:18:38 PM

**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****

SilverStreaker wrote: "AnryCubera, the US Dept. of Energy's Ethanol Myths and Facts, "FACT: Ethanol blends in use today have little impact on fuel economy or vehicle performance."

Now what's your excuse?"

I have NO investments in ANY fuel sources. Now admit you are a pimp for this snakeoil. You have wasted way to much time and energy to trying to sell your product to deny it now.

And thank you for the article, but you should have read it first. It backs up the data findings I posted at: US Department of Energy

From SilverSteakers article: "•Flex-fuel vehicles designed to run on higher ethanol blends (E85 or 85 percent ethanol) do experience reduced miles per gallon"

Now, your article specifically states "Flex-fuel vehicles" "do experience reduced miles per gallon", although it gives no scientific data. But I think it is fair to say that if the writer is admitting that FFV's (which are designed to run on this garbage) experience reduced miles per gallon when running on ethanol blends that non-FFV's will substantially experience worse MPG's. Now, how is this helping that family that's being foreclosed upon again?
...You too, should be ashamed of yourself.

By the way... Are your ethanol stocks up or down this year SilverStreaker?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 2:48:00 PM

AngryCubera, the US Dept. of Energy's Ethanol Myths and Facts, "FACT: Ethanol blends in use today have little impact on fuel economy or vehicle performance."

Now what's your excuse?

[Edited by: SilverStreaker at 11/8/2012 2:50:20 PM EST]
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 2:37:05 PM

New investor to ethanol are you tropicalmn?

I'm confused, are you claiming to be smarter than the scientists at the US Department of Energy too?

Your pants are pulled down. Its over. Ethanol is a fraud.Give it up.US Department of Energy
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tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 2:25:59 PM

What do you call someone of little or no intelligence on the internet who gets into a discussion, debate, or argument that they cannot keep up with because of their inability to think and process information outside of their closed little mind and then responds by calling other people with more intelligence's than them self a troll? A STUPID TROLL.
There are many individuals who contribute to this forum with many years experience using ethanol successfully in many different applications.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 2:12:00 PM

**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****

****FYI to all interested - GM1954 has already admitted in a previous forum that he hedges his investments and makes money off of you whether you buy gasoline OR ethanol. He's looking out for both of his investments. I was polite at the time of his disclosure and told him that I appreciated him coming clean about his investments, but now I am now tired the shady sales tactics. Watch out... Next year he may be invested in mud-anol that he will then want you to be forced to put in your tank.****GM1954 wrote: ""Beware of these ethanol forums. They are polluted with trolls that are heavily invested in the ethanol market."

There's another possibility. Some of these ethanol forums have people who are knowledgable on the topic.

"Please, don't listen to anyone else. If you still have the ability in your area, do your own one tank test"

Wow, that's scientific."

You want scientific? Well Dr. Scientific, I'm sure you are more qualified than the army of scientists the US Dept of Energy uses. Even they say a fully adapted E85 vehicle typically gets 25-30% fewer miles per gallon when fueled with E85. Stuff that in your beaker you hide in your basement and smoke it.

Now stop impersonating a scientist. You are not a scientist. You are just another plaid-jacket wearing salesman that is trying to fatten your wallet through illusion and diversion. It is simply immoral what you and the others are doing for your own riches. There are hungry people out there that are facing foreclosure. They don't know how they are going to pay for their next tank of gas to get to work and you want to force them to buy this garbage that gets at least 25-30% less MPG for your own profit? You should be ashamed of yourself.

You no longer have any credibility here.
The link to the US Department of Energy is attached.

US Department of Energy

[Edited by: AngryCubera at 11/8/2012 2:13:45 PM EST]
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 1:08:37 PM

"Beware of these ethanol forums. They are polluted with trolls that are heavily invested in the ethanol market."

There's another possibility. Some of these ethanol forums have people who are knowledgable on the topic.

"Please, don't listen to anyone else. If you still have the ability in your area, do your own one tank test"

Wow, that's scientific.

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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 11:31:58 AM

SilverStreaker wrote: "The only financial benefit I have ever received from the ethanol market is whenever I buy E85 at a cost less than regular gas."

Congratulations.... I don't believe you.

[Edited by: AngryCubera at 11/8/2012 11:32:36 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 10:27:47 AM

AngryCubera posts "TROLL ALERT"
Thanks for the warning, but you are pretty obvious.

and "Please, don't listen to anyone else. If you still have the ability in your area, do your own one tank test. It is the only way you will find out if this product is right for you."
I agree with you mostly here. Different cars react differently with different ethanol blende. But a one tank test? Forget it. There is so much variability in a one tank test that you will never know.

I started blending ethanol in two non-FFVs in 2007 and have recorded every odometer reading at fill-up with the quantity of each fuel put into the vehicles. I ran at least 3 tanks on each blend before trying a different blend. I used the same pumps from the same stations whenever possible.

Based on five years of data, my conclusions are:
- My vehicles show no statistically significant change in mileage at any blend.
- There is a significant change in mileage between summer and winter.
- The first tank full of a new blend shows the most variability, likely due to the computer system adjusting to the new mixture.

The only financial benefit I have ever received from the ethanol market is whenever I buy E85 at a cost less than regular gas.
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AngryCubera
Rookie Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 9:00:19 AM

**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****
**** TROLL ALERT ****

rumbleseat wrote: "It is really hard to argue with a mind that has absorbed all the stereotypes, and misinformation out there, then snapped shut. There are still people that believe in a flat earth. There are still people that believe the moon landing was filmed on a Hollywood back lot."

goldseeker wrote: "A false statement for sure. Did you take lessons from Obama?"

Beware of these ethanol forums. They are polluted with trolls that are heavily invested in the ethanol market. They will continue to defend this product to the death because it puts money in their pockets. The more people they convince, the more money they are able to take from your pocket and put in theirs. They will say things as simple as "I've never noticed a difference in my mileage" to wilder stories about magic carpets being invented by tibetan monks that get far better mileage on pure ethanol than any gasoline powered vehicle can ever produce. its all about convincing you to belive them and not test the product yourself. Oh, I almost forgot, its good for unicorns too.

The fact is, they have a product to pimp and they are going to do it with no limitations on their outrageous claims. If in the next year some company starts putting mud in gas, and a few of these investors jump on board, you will see them defending that to the death too.

Please, don't listen to anyone else. If you still have the ability in your area, do your own one tank test. It is the only way you will find out if this product is right for you. I have done the test for myself. My car gets 8 miles less per gallon and my boat gets 25% less distance. No amount of B.S these trolls post is going to change that fact for my vehicles.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 5:41:21 AM

"It produces less power, and less mpg so you use more of it than gasoline. Good luck when using ethanol that absorbs water from the air, to cause a very corrosive environment for most metal, and alcohol is not good for hoses either."

It is really hard to argue with a mind that has absorbed all the stereotypes, and misinformation out there, then snapped shut. There are still people that believe in a flat earth. There are still people that believe the moon landing was filmed on a Hollywood back lot.
Gary9696, the truth has been posted in these forums many times. You have been a member long enough to have seen the many discussions, unless you have deliberately avoided them to keep from being exposed to reality.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2012 2:59:13 AM

"It produces less power, and less mpg so you use more of it than gasoline. Good luck when using ethanol that absorbs water from the air, to cause a very corrosive environment for most metal, and alcohol is not good for hoses either."

A false statement for sure. Did you take lessons from Obama?
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TSgtCarverRetired
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2012 7:45:58 PM

It produces less power, and less mpg so you use more of it than gasoline. Good luck when using ethanol that absorbs water from the air, to cause a very corrosive environment for most metal, and alcohol is not good for hoses either.
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