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Author	Topic: World wants USA to stop ethanol production.	Post a Reply Back to Topics

StickySam Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,489 Points:1,161,240 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:57:26 AM Ignore StickySam Report Abuse The United Nations (UN) food agency has called on the United States to suspend its production of bio-fuel ethanol.Considering that ethanol usually means a car engine gets less mpg, I still do not see the need for this fuel. If the US Government wants the American people to use less fuel nationwide, put $1 a gallon tax on petrol/diesel. People would instantly drive less and in a more fuel efficient manner. Of course this will not happen , Oh Bummer want to be popular, not get things done. Full story here [Edited by: StickySam at 8/10/2012 9:02:20 AM EST]

StickySam

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Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:57:26 AM

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The United Nations (UN) food agency has called on the United States to suspend its production of bio-fuel ethanol.Considering that ethanol usually means a car engine gets less mpg, I still do not see the need for this fuel. If the US Government wants the American people to use less fuel nationwide, put $1 a gallon tax on petrol/diesel. People would instantly drive less and in a more fuel efficient manner. Of course this will not happen , Oh Bummer want to be popular, not get things done.

Full story here

[Edited by: StickySam at 8/10/2012 9:02:20 AM EST]

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borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 12:19:20 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse Why would the UN. be opposed to our making Ethanol from beets?
prassu2012 All-Star Author Illinois Posts:681 Points:148,920 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 3:58:33 PM Ignore prassu2012 Report Abuse Have no idea but is it possible
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 1:07:59 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse GrumpyCat says "The world wants to eat. Who can blame them? All they have to do is come up with the price and we'll sell corn rather than distill it into ethanol." We already export corn. What's your point?
GrumpyCat Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,612 Points:790,680 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 12:09:31 PM Ignore GrumpyCat Report Abuse The world wants to eat. Who can blame them? All they have to do is come up with the price and we'll sell corn rather than distill it into ethanol.
Blondie22OH Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,551 Points:340,140 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 7:56:12 AM Ignore Blondie22OH Report Abuse I like to see it be gone too.
BigHorne1 Champion Author Missouri Posts:1,502 Points:297,750 Joined:Jul 2012	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:35:44 AM Ignore BigHorne1 Report Abuse sounds good to me, keep food prices lower
rocknvox All-Star Author Bakersfield Posts:679 Points:137,775 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 9:45:18 AM Ignore rocknvox Report Abuse anybody who suggests anything to raise gas prices is a low dog. what is wrong with you? the price of gas is decided by futures people. has nothing to do with anything but the greedy petrolium companies. we have so much oil here it is being shipped out. IT IS ALL A CON GANE AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS LOSING.
wickstick83 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:1,015 Points:266,770 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:59:30 AM Ignore wickstick83 Report Abuse no kidding
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:892 Points:420,690 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 11:17:24 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse So does the food buying public in the US !
cutter1330 Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:8,035 Points:1,694,115 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:38:44 PM Ignore cutter1330 Report Abuse Sounds right to me.
FarmTech Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,161 Points:2,294,910 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:24:00 PM Ignore FarmTech Report Abuse go for it
ggg452 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:1,570 Points:331,825 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 10:11:56 AM Ignore ggg452 Report Abuse corn is for food not fuel...
hyeglenn Champion Author Fresno Posts:1,075 Points:600,655 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 8:26:11 AM Ignore hyeglenn Report Abuse It's fine with me, we don't need it.
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:44:19 AM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse "However, beets are much more efficinet and probably is the correct way to provide ethanal as a fuel." Because beets produce so much ethanol. Therefore, ethanol producers use corn to make ethanol. Does that make sense to you borsht? "Since the U.S. uses 40% of its corn for ethanol,...." That's statement is inaccurate. Ethanol producers process 40% of the corn grown in the US. Half of what they make is animal feed. [Edited by: SoylentGrain at 1/3/2013 7:46:02 AM EST]
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:16:04 AM Ignore borsht Report Abuse Since the U.S. uses 40% of its corn for ethanol, and a lot of people are starving it makes sense to lesson our use of corn. However, beets are much more efficinet and probably is the correct way to provide ethanal as a fuel.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,332 Points:730,110 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 5:19:25 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse emtrob2012 wrote: "corn for food, not for gas." Why not both?
emtrob2012 All-Star Author Myrtle Beach Posts:908 Points:149,930 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 3:50:07 PM Ignore emtrob2012 Report Abuse corn for food, not for gas.
TimWitt Rookie Author California Posts:21 Points:45,785 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:17:13 PM Ignore TimWitt Report Abuse no good idea
TimWitt Rookie Author California Posts:21 Points:45,785 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:17:08 PM Ignore TimWitt Report Abuse no good idea
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,014 Points:820,075 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 7:01:40 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse nighthawk91 counters: "I have to challenge you a bit e-squirrel. Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides..... They are not making any more money than they were 5 years ago." I don't disagree with you about the rising costs that farmers, including corn farmers have to pay. All I am saying is that corn farmers, like any other business, are motivated by profit, and this profit pays for their shelter, food and other necessities. I just don't agree with daniel374 that is only about "money vs humanitarian goals". Corn farmers, like every other business are trying to earn a living. It isn't somehow "in-humanitarian" to sell their product to either ethanol producers, hog growers, or agricultural chemical stocks companies. [Edited by: E-Squirrel at 12/28/2012 7:03:25 PM EST]
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 12:50:47 PM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse "Which is why we had a crop failure this year..." The corn-belt didn't have a "crop failure" this year. Corn grew in drought conditions and yield dereased in some areas. At the end of this growing season the US had a surplus of corn. At the end of next years growing season, we are projected to have another surplus.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 12:09:02 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shockjock1961 says "Which is why we had a crop failure this year..." Even with the draught conditions, there was still enough corn to feed people and create ethanol for fuel. Hardly a "crop failure".
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,124 Points:2,186,135 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:48:27 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "By the way, we use rain in the corn-belt." Which is why we had a crop failure this year...
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:41:00 AM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse "Twice the yield per acre and 50% better use of the water. " If that were true, don't you think the ethanol plants would be concentrated in the beet-belt? By the way, we use rain in the corn-belt. In my opinion, using rain to grow corn is an efficient use of water.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,332 Points:730,110 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:35:44 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse borsht wrote: "If you haven't noticed the increase in beef and milk, due substantially due to the increase in feed prices;lst two year milk has gone from ~$2/gal to over $3.5/gal. just wait till after the 1st when milk may spike to $9/gal" How about you provide some proof to your statement. borsht wrote: "if the farm subsidies goes away, and we keep the ethanol subsidies in place." Can you list all the Ethanol federal subsidies? This is a second time I'm asking you to do so. So far you failed to provide them, yet you continue to spread this misinformation.
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:51:40 AM Ignore borsht Report Abuse If you haven't noticed the increase in beef and milk, due substantially due to the increase in feed prices;lst two year milk has gone from ~$2/gal to over $3.5/gal. just wait till after the 1st when milk may spike to $9/gal, if the farm subsidies goes away, and we keep the ethanol subsidies in place.
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:46:38 AM Ignore borsht Report Abuse The use of ethanol is not evil, what's evil is using food stock to porduce it. 60% of our food comes from corn and wheat. The use of sugar beets or cain is a great way to produce ethanol! Twice the yield per acre and 50% better use of the water.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,124 Points:2,186,135 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:28:54 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "It's actually natural gas that is used to produce ethanol. For each btu going into ethanol production, 1.75 btu comes out in the form of ethanol. That seems like a very efficient use of natural gas." For one, it's not just Natural gas going into the production of ethanol..
rugby2 Rookie Author Kalamazoo Posts:36 Points:1,770 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 12:19:53 AM Ignore rugby2 Report Abuse I say why don't you corn lobby guys write a letter stating why you like ethanol to road and track, motor trend and let very knowledgeable car guys refute your claims about ethanol? And Google Ethanol for a second opinion on your ideas.
rugby2 Rookie Author Kalamazoo Posts:36 Points:1,770 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 12:13:48 AM Ignore rugby2 Report Abuse you might get ethanol from natural gas, but the corn lobby is pushing corn. i say sugar or waste grass maybe, good. corn is bad. Also why not just run cars on LP gas? we seem to have a lot of that now.
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:54:29 PM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse "Time to quit wasting oil to produce ethanol to reduce the MPG of cars and increase the wear and tear on engines." It's actually natural gas that is used to produce ethanol. For each btu going into ethanol production, 1.75 btu comes out in the form of ethanol. That seems like a very efficient use of natural gas. "And increase the cost and fragility of our food supply -- and the world's. " Fragile food supply? The US is a surplus producer of grain. The USDA pays landowners NOT TO GROW crops. Furthermore, it's not "our" or "the worlds" corn. If I grow corn, it's mine. It becomes yours if you pay me for it. Nothing is lost during ethanol production, either. Only the sugar is used from the corn to make ethanol. The protein and oil go back into the food chain. The high protein animal feed made during ethanol production actually reduces the total amount of corn used to feed out animals.
WestDriver All-Star Author Grand Rapids Posts:679 Points:548,620 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:20:16 PM Ignore WestDriver Report Abuse Time to quit wasting oil to produce ethanol to reduce the MPG of cars and increase the wear and tear on engines. And increase the cost and fragility of our food supply -- and the world's. Which is why they're not happy with our silliness and stupidity in this area.
waynefun Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:80 Points:877,175 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:04:46 PM Ignore waynefun Report Abuse we need to keep open minds and we need more than one resource to fuel our items.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 6:05:06 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse borsht says "Using water to improve efficiency by injecting it into combustins chamber is an old trick." If the water is already in the fuel, you don't need to inject it. Do you now realize that the MPGs that you get from a fuel is determined by more than just the BTU content of the fuel?
GrumpyCat Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,612 Points:790,680 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 5:26:14 PM Ignore GrumpyCat Report Abuse Ethanol is bad. UN is also bad. Two wrongs don't make a right.
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 5:00:15 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse Using water to improve efficiency by injecting it into combustins chamber is an old trick. It was used in WW2 in fighters, to enable much higher manifold pressures and increase the relative octane rating of the fuel. The latent heat of evaporation for water is about -4700Joules/Kg. The specific heat is about -4.7Joule/kg/degree celsius for liquid water You need to add the steam specific heart also. Thus is absorbs considerable energy when injected and heated to combustion temperatures. To the extent that the engine runs ate cooler temperature you can offset this loss of heat some and not lose as much in the radiator. You also get some work out of the water when it turns to steam. Anyway, to use water ,you would need another computer and program to run the injection system. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for water injection to become practical.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 10:34:13 AM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse SoylentGrain, welcome to GasBuddys! I read about efforts to inject just water spray into the cylinder of a gasoline engine every other injection. The heat of the engine would expand the water, so you wouldn't be wasting heat energy through the radiator.
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 8:14:42 AM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse Interesting conspiracy theory, borsht. But, if the water in the fuel takes on heat, don't you think the water vapor would expand, converting heat energy into kinetic energy and improve efficiency? That's the idea behind water injection.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:09:05 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse borsht, BTU's are 35% less for Ethanol but we are not heating water...
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:798 Points:190,860 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 8:08:05 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse http://zfacts.com/p/436.html You can only get about 2/3 the energy pergallon of ethanol as you get from gasoline. The beauty of ethanol or E85 is that they can now add water to the mix, thus getting the cost per gallon down further, also the MPG will go down disapportionately lower, since that water contributes nothing to the fuel energy, but instead absorbs much of the heat by burning the alcohol and gasoline.
Banjoe Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:4,257 Points:615,240 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 14, 2012 7:55:05 AM Ignore Banjoe Report Abuse Ethanol creates employment, moves mountains of money through the economy, and reduces dependence on foreign oil. Sounds like a pretty evil development to me.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 11:54:32 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Currency_Pro, I've been using high ethanol blends in two non-FFVs for over 5 years for many thousands of miles and have not seen any significant change in mileage at any blend. What's your experience with high ethanol blends?
Currency_Pro Veteran Author Vancouver Posts:408 Points:99,920 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 11:16:27 PM Ignore Currency_Pro Report Abuse Tell me something....why would anyone recommend ethanol based fuels when it causes you to use more fuel?
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:892 Points:420,690 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 7:25:30 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse To be effective, the ethanol mandate has to be flexible enough to use the waste products instead of good first-use of food stocks. Lobbyist gone bad.
Ethanol Bob Rookie Author Illinois Posts:4 Points:180 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 5:30:25 PM Ignore Ethanol Bob Report Abuse "Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?" They didn't. The price of all US commodities is largely influenced by the value of the US dollar. In recent years, the value of the US dollar has decreased. Commodities like oil, precious metals, and grain have all increased. I am Ethanol Bob.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,332 Points:730,110 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 9:39:22 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "According to some, very little of these substances are needed to produce corn. Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?" Because transporting finished product influences the price as well. [Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 11/13/2012 9:40:03 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,124 Points:2,186,135 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 9:17:21 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides....." According to some, very little of these substances are needed to produce corn. Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?
twt Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:8,740 Points:998,610 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 7:36:23 AM Ignore twt Report Abuse Ethanol, is just a bad joke.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,942 Points:2,217,325 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 11:39:12 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Well said, nighthawk91.
nighthawk91 Rookie Author South Dakota Posts:82 Points:34,560 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 9:09:56 PM Ignore nighthawk91 Report Abuse I have to challenge you a bit e-squirrel. Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides..... They are not making any more money than they were 5 years ago. Quantitative easing (devaluing the dollar) has more to due with price increases. IMO, the world needs to shut their trap until the USA doesn't have to bail them out of trouble.