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Author Topic: World wants USA to stop ethanol production. Back to Topics
StickySam

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Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2012 8:57:26 AM

The United Nations (UN) food agency has called on the United States to suspend its production of bio-fuel ethanol.Considering that ethanol usually means a car engine gets less mpg, I still do not see the need for this fuel. If the US Government wants the American people to use less fuel nationwide, put $1 a gallon tax on petrol/diesel. People would instantly drive less and in a more fuel efficient manner. Of course this will not happen , Oh Bummer want to be popular, not get things done.

Full story here



[Edited by: StickySam at 8/10/2012 9:02:20 AM EST]
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 12:19:20 PM

Why would the UN. be opposed to our making Ethanol from beets?
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prassu2012
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 3:58:33 PM

Have no idea but is it possible
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 1:07:59 PM

GrumpyCat says "The world wants to eat. Who can blame them? All they have to do is come up with the price and we'll sell corn rather than distill it into ethanol."
We already export corn. What's your point?
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 12:09:31 PM

The world wants to eat. Who can blame them? All they have to do is come up with the price and we'll sell corn rather than distill it into ethanol.
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Blondie22OH
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 7:56:12 AM

I like to see it be gone too.
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BigHorne1
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:35:44 AM

sounds good to me, keep food prices lower
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rocknvox
Champion Author Bakersfield

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 9:45:18 AM

anybody who suggests anything to raise gas prices is a low dog. what is wrong with you? the price of gas is decided by futures people. has nothing to do with anything but the greedy petrolium companies. we have so much oil here it is being shipped out. IT IS ALL A CON GANE AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS LOSING.
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wickstick83
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:59:30 AM

no kidding
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 11:17:24 PM

So does the food buying public in the US !
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cutter1330
Champion Author Oklahoma

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:38:44 PM

Sounds right to me.
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FarmTech
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:24:00 PM

go for it
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ggg452
Champion Author Manitoba

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 10:11:56 AM

corn is for food not fuel...
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hyeglenn
Champion Author Fresno

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 8:26:11 AM

It's fine with me, we don't need it.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:44:19 AM

"However, beets are much more efficinet and probably is the correct way to provide ethanal as a fuel."

Because beets produce so much ethanol. Therefore, ethanol producers use corn to make ethanol. Does that make sense to you borsht?

"Since the U.S. uses 40% of its corn for ethanol,...."

That's statement is inaccurate. Ethanol producers process 40% of the corn grown in the US. Half of what they make is animal feed.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 1/3/2013 7:46:02 AM EST]
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:16:04 AM

Since the U.S. uses 40% of its corn for ethanol, and a lot of people are starving it makes sense to lesson our use of corn. However, beets are much more efficinet and probably is the correct way to provide ethanal as a fuel.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 5:19:25 PM

emtrob2012 wrote: "corn for food, not for gas."

Why not both?
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emtrob2012
All-Star Author Myrtle Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 3:50:07 PM

corn for food, not for gas.
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TimWitt
Rookie Author California

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:17:13 PM

no good idea
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TimWitt
Rookie Author California

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:17:08 PM

no good idea
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 7:01:40 PM

nighthawk91 counters:

"I have to challenge you a bit e-squirrel. Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides..... They are not making any more money than they were 5 years ago."

I don't disagree with you about the rising costs that farmers, including corn farmers have to pay. All I am saying is that corn farmers, like any other business, are motivated by profit, and this profit pays for their shelter, food and other necessities.

I just don't agree with daniel374 that is only about "money vs humanitarian goals". Corn farmers, like every other business are trying to earn a living. It isn't somehow "in-humanitarian" to sell their product to either ethanol producers, hog growers, or agricultural chemical stocks companies.

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 12/28/2012 7:03:25 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 12:50:47 PM

"Which is why we had a crop failure this year..."

The corn-belt didn't have a "crop failure" this year. Corn grew in drought conditions and yield dereased in some areas. At the end of this growing season the US had a surplus of corn. At the end of next years growing season, we are projected to have another surplus.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 12:09:02 PM

Shockjock1961 says "Which is why we had a crop failure this year..."
Even with the draught conditions, there was still enough corn to feed people and create ethanol for fuel. Hardly a "crop failure".
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:48:27 AM

"By the way, we use rain in the corn-belt."

Which is why we had a crop failure this year...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:41:00 AM

"Twice the yield per acre and 50% better use of the water. "

If that were true, don't you think the ethanol plants would be concentrated in the beet-belt? By the way, we use rain in the corn-belt. In my opinion, using rain to grow corn is an efficient use of water.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:35:44 AM

borsht wrote: "If you haven't noticed the increase in beef and milk, due substantially due to the increase in feed prices;lst two year milk has gone from ~$2/gal to over $3.5/gal. just wait till after the 1st when milk may spike to $9/gal"

How about you provide some proof to your statement.

borsht wrote: "if the farm subsidies goes away, and we keep the ethanol subsidies in place."

Can you list all the Ethanol federal subsidies?

This is a second time I'm asking you to do so. So far you failed to provide them, yet you continue to spread this misinformation.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:51:40 AM

If you haven't noticed the increase in beef and milk, due substantially due to the increase in feed prices;lst two year milk has gone from ~$2/gal to over $3.5/gal. just wait till after the 1st when milk may spike to $9/gal, if the farm subsidies goes away, and we keep the ethanol subsidies in place.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:46:38 AM

The use of ethanol is not evil, what's evil is using food stock to porduce it. 60% of our food comes from corn and wheat.
The use of sugar beets or cain is a great way to produce ethanol! Twice the yield per acre and 50% better use of the water.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:28:54 AM

"It's actually natural gas that is used to produce ethanol. For each btu going into ethanol production, 1.75 btu comes out in the form of ethanol. That seems like a very efficient use of natural gas."

For one, it's not just Natural gas going into the production of ethanol..
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rugby2
Rookie Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 12:19:53 AM

I say why don't you corn lobby guys write a letter stating why you like ethanol to road and track, motor trend and let very knowledgeable car guys refute your claims about ethanol? And Google Ethanol for a second opinion on your ideas.
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rugby2
Rookie Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 12:13:48 AM

you might get ethanol from natural gas, but the corn lobby is pushing corn. i say sugar or waste grass maybe, good. corn is bad. Also why not just run cars on LP gas? we seem to have a lot of that now.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:54:29 PM

"Time to quit wasting oil to produce ethanol to reduce the MPG of cars and increase the wear and tear on engines."

It's actually natural gas that is used to produce ethanol. For each btu going into ethanol production, 1.75 btu comes out in the form of ethanol. That seems like a very efficient use of natural gas.

"And increase the cost and fragility of our food supply -- and the world's. "

Fragile food supply? The US is a surplus producer of grain. The USDA pays landowners NOT TO GROW crops. Furthermore, it's not "our" or "the worlds" corn. If I grow corn, it's mine. It becomes yours if you pay me for it.

Nothing is lost during ethanol production, either. Only the sugar is used from the corn to make ethanol. The protein and oil go back into the food chain. The high protein animal feed made during ethanol production actually reduces the total amount of corn used to feed out animals.
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WestDriver
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:20:16 PM

Time to quit wasting oil to produce ethanol to reduce the MPG of cars and increase the wear and tear on engines. And increase the cost and fragility of our food supply -- and the world's. Which is why they're not happy with our silliness and stupidity in this area.
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waynefun
Rookie Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:04:46 PM

we need to keep open minds and we need more than one resource to fuel our items.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 6:05:06 PM

borsht says "Using water to improve efficiency by injecting it into combustins chamber is an old trick."
If the water is already in the fuel, you don't need to inject it.
Do you now realize that the MPGs that you get from a fuel is determined by more than just the BTU content of the fuel?
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 5:26:14 PM

Ethanol is bad.

UN is also bad.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 5:00:15 PM

Using water to improve efficiency by injecting it into combustins chamber is an old trick. It was used in WW2 in fighters, to enable much higher manifold pressures and increase the relative octane rating of the fuel.
The latent heat of evaporation for water is about -4700Joules/Kg.
The specific heat is about -4.7Joule/kg/degree celsius for liquid water You need to add the steam specific heart also. Thus is absorbs considerable energy when injected and heated to combustion temperatures.
To the extent that the engine runs ate cooler temperature you can offset this loss of heat some and not lose as much in the radiator. You also get some work out of the water when it turns to steam. Anyway, to use water ,you would need another computer and program to run the injection system.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for water injection to become practical.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 10:34:13 AM

SoylentGrain, welcome to GasBuddys! I read about efforts to inject just water spray into the cylinder of a gasoline engine every other injection. The heat of the engine would expand the water, so you wouldn't be wasting heat energy through the radiator.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 8:14:42 AM

Interesting conspiracy theory, borsht. But, if the water in the fuel takes on heat, don't you think the water vapor would expand, converting heat energy into kinetic energy and improve efficiency? That's the idea behind water injection.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 9:09:05 PM

borsht, BTU's are 35% less for Ethanol but we are not heating water...

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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2012 8:08:05 PM

http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
You can only get about 2/3 the energy pergallon of ethanol as you get from gasoline.
The beauty of ethanol or E85 is that they can now add water to the mix, thus getting the cost per gallon down further, also the MPG will go down disapportionately lower, since that water contributes nothing to the fuel energy, but instead absorbs much of the heat by burning the alcohol and gasoline.

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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2012 7:55:05 AM

Ethanol creates employment, moves mountains of money through the economy, and reduces dependence on foreign oil. Sounds like a pretty evil development to me.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 11:54:32 PM

Currency_Pro, I've been using high ethanol blends in two non-FFVs for over 5 years for many thousands of miles and have not seen any significant change in mileage at any blend. What's your experience with high ethanol blends?
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Currency_Pro
Veteran Author Vancouver

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 11:16:27 PM

Tell me something....why would anyone recommend ethanol based fuels when it causes you to use more fuel?
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 7:25:30 PM

To be effective, the ethanol mandate has to be flexible enough to use the waste products instead of good first-use of food stocks.

Lobbyist gone bad.
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Ethanol Bob
Rookie Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 5:30:25 PM

"Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?"

They didn't. The price of all US commodities is largely influenced by the value of the US dollar. In recent years, the value of the US dollar has decreased. Commodities like oil, precious metals, and grain have all increased.

I am Ethanol Bob.

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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 9:39:22 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "According to some, very little of these substances are needed to produce corn. Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?"

Because transporting finished product influences the price as well.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 11/13/2012 9:40:03 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 9:17:21 AM

"Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides....."

According to some, very little of these substances are needed to produce corn. Therefore, how can the price increases of these be the cause of the quadrupling of corn prices over the last few years?
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2012 7:36:23 AM

Ethanol, is just a bad joke.
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 11:39:12 PM

Well said, nighthawk91.
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nighthawk91
Sophomore Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2012 9:09:56 PM

I have to challenge you a bit e-squirrel. Corn producers have to endure the price increase in diesel fuel, pesticides, herbicides..... They are not making any more money than they were 5 years ago.

Quantitative easing (devaluing the dollar) has more to due with price increases.

IMO, the world needs to shut their trap until the USA doesn't have to bail them out of trouble.

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