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SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: May 2, 2012 8:48:49 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse This Mother Earth News article may be old, but has a lot of useful information, including links on how to make your own ethanol.

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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 8:48:49 PM

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This Mother Earth News article may be old, but has a lot of useful information, including links on how to make your own ethanol.

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WhiskeyBurner Rookie Author Illinois Posts:42 Points:580 Joined:May 2013	Message Posted: May 21, 2013 3:53:58 AM Ignore WhiskeyBurner Report Abuse Wonder if it went anywhere and how well it would work on BioDiesel and E85 instead of normal diesel and gas.
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:790 Points:189,525 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:53:46 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse Another approach to bi fuel has been suggested by Chrysler. diesel and gasoline. http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/06/chrysler-developing-prototype-engine-that-burns-gasoline-and-diesel.html The concept was funded thru April 2013; Any insight on how it will go forward?
Wanda127 Champion Author Florida Posts:2,494 Points:914,030 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 11:45:58 PM Ignore Wanda127 Report Abuse I think it's wrong to force us to have to adapt our engines to Ethanol when regular fuel is much better for our small engines & we get better fuel mileage with reg. gasoline of the ethanol.
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:890 Points:419,050 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 8:18:52 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse Many states have joined the voluntary part as they have invested interest (IE - state loan programs) into the ethanol market. So they want to protect themselves instead of the tax paying public who don't have a choice and used as risked pawns in the fake market demand for ethanol.
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:790 Points:189,525 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:06:31 AM Ignore borsht Report Abuse I don't have a car designed for diesil propane or ethanol, it is designed for gasoline and I have no reasonable choice to purchase r90. End of story. I'm not interested in arguing with the ethanol lobby.
tropicalmn Sophomore Author Minnesota Posts:172 Points:145,815 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 3:07:42 PM Ignore tropicalmn Report Abuse "I don't know what you guys are smoking, when you say we are not forced to use E10." Ever hear of diesel fuel,Natural gas or LP Gas?
borsht All-Star Author Oakland Posts:790 Points:189,525 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 2:56:17 PM Ignore borsht Report Abuse I don't know what you guys are smoking, when you say we are not forced to use E10. But I've checked several sites and can find only about 6 stations in califoria that sell R90. No one has a car that drive the distance between these stations. So, tell me how I can effectively use R10 for fuel. I would call this force. The need for fuel, forces me to use E10 or worse. But that being said, The EPA The reformulated gasoline (RFG) program requires reductions in automobile emissions of ozone-forming volatile organic compounds during the summer high-ozone season, and of toxic air pollutants and nitrogen oxides during the entire year in certain areas of the United States. Reformulated gasoline requires a minimum 2.1 percent oxygen by weight when averaging, which corresponds to approximately 11.7 volume percent MTBE or 5.8 volume percent ethanol. While the sale of Federal reformulated gasoline was mandated for only nine areas in the nation with the most severe ozone pollution, other areas are allowed to voluntarily join the Federal RFG program. I call this force, both by availability and by force of LAW.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 10:44:13 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "Modern cars don't really need an oxygenated fuel." You are assuming that air and fuel mixes perfectly all the time. As with any other assumptions and "facts" of yours you are wrong.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 9:37:22 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Modern cars don't really need an oxygenated fuel. The point is moot on that basis alone.
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:890 Points:419,050 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 8:36:29 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse Wasn't it the EPA that 'forced' the use of MTBE?
ugly46 Sophomore Author Indiana Posts:181 Points:129,490 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 5:31:41 PM Ignore ugly46 Report Abuse The ethanol industry is only around because the goverment has it't hands in it. If you really want clean fuel go to natural gas.
giwan Veteran Author Michigan Posts:481 Points:87,475 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 10:00:12 AM Ignore giwan Report Abuse why would I?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 3:54:33 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Before you were "forced" to use E-10, you were forced to use MTBE, a highly toxic and harmful to engines additive" MTBE is not "highly toxic", that's simply propaganda... From THE EPA website (you know the department of the government that ethanol shills are so fond of): Is MTBE harmful to humans? The majority of the human health-related research conducted to date on MTBE has focused on effects associated with the inhalation of the chemical. When research animals inhaled high concentrations of MTBE, some developed cancers or experienced other non-cancerous health effects To date, independent expert review groups who have assessed MTBE inhalation health risks (e.g., Interagency Assessment of Oxygenated Fuels) have not concluded that the use of MTBE-oxygenated gasoline poses an imminent threat to public health. However, researchers have limited data about what the health effects may be if a person swallows (ingests) MTBE. EPA's Office of Water has concluded that available data are not adequate to estimate potential health risks of MTBE at low exposure levels in drinking water but that the data support the conclusion that MTBE is a potential human carcinogen at high doses. Recent work by EPA and other researchers is expected to help determine more precisely the potential for health effects from MTBE in drinking water.
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:585 Points:15,175 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 3:21:15 PM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Before you were "forced" to use E-10, you were forced to use MTBE, a highly toxic and harmful to engines additive in gasoline that the oil companies wanted to put in it. Now they are paying for all the people they have poisoned. Ethanol is good for engines unlike MTBE, and does not cause environmental harm. And I ask the question again that kryzsiek_ck asked. When were you forced to use E-85, or E-15. Most places don't even require E-10. [Edited by: Hannie59 at 4/16/2013 3:22:42 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 2:25:34 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse The problem is, that if the average American had a choice, the ethanol industry would disappear...
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 8:21:03 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Wanda127 wrote: "We should have a choice to get the type fuel we need for our vehicle & not be forced to use Ethanol especially the E85!" How exactly are you forced to use E85?
Wanda127 Champion Author Florida Posts:2,494 Points:914,030 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 12:14:15 AM Ignore Wanda127 Report Abuse We should have a choice to get the type fuel we need for our vehicle & not be forced to use Ethanol especially the E85!
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 8:33:59 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse "Brake Thermal Efficiency represents in percentage terms the amount of energy converted from fuel into useful mechanical work by the engine. A engine with a higher BTE level is more efficient, offering the potential for increased fuel efficiency and associated reductions in CO2 emissions. Percentage point improvements in this are hard-earned." Cummins Targeting 50% Efficiency and 2010 Emissions via Waste Heat Recovery Scheme So Shockjock1961, What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency? [Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 4/15/2013 8:38:04 AM EST]
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 8:23:05 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "If you did, then you would know that the brake thermal efficiency is generally determined by engine and transmission design, not by the fuel component..." Another idiotic answer by Shockjock1961, what a surprise. Would you like to give it one more try, Shockjock1961?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:54:12 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "You assume he knows what brake thermal efficiency is." The question is SS, do you know what it is? If you did, then you would know that the brake thermal efficiency is generally determined by engine and transmission design, not by the fuel component... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/14/2013 5:54:57 PM EST]
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:04:53 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse krzysiek_ck asked Shocky "What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency?" You assume he knows what brake thermal efficiency is.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 8:45:53 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "I don't know about specifics since you haven't presented any SS, but the amount of work heat engines do is directly related to the heat content of the fuel used..." What is the brake thermal efficiency? What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 5:14:03 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse I don't know about specifics since you haven't presented any SS, but the amount of work heat engines do is directly related to the heat content of the fuel used...
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 4:38:12 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shocky, there are many different ICE designs. Are you claiming that the difference in mileage between gasoline and ethanol is going to be exactly the same for all ICEs and will be the difference of the BTU values?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 4:30:16 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse AN ICE engine is a heat engine therefore the amount of work you get out of it is going to be directly related to the heat content of the fuel you use...
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 4:12:47 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shocky, so you don't believe that fuel properties like volatility, preignition, rate of flame propagation can also effect mileage, only the BTU content determines this?
ggg452 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:1,565 Points:330,850 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 10:49:26 AM Ignore ggg452 Report Abuse we do not need ethanol.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 10:22:12 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Not at all. Use diesel in an engine that can actually result in efficient combustion and you will find that you will get more power and better mileage with diesel over gasoline simply becasue diesel has a higher energy content. Your example actually supports what I've said all along SS... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 2/25/2013 10:22:51 AM EST]
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 10:14:57 AM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shocky, so you admit that BTU content is not the only property of a fuel that effects the mileage?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 9:23:57 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Shockjock1961, why don't you put diesel fuel in your Prius?" Because a spark ignited ICE is incapable of running diesel? (DUH!)... Really, SS, I thought you were smarter then that, but you have proven me wrong for once...
EvergreenON All-Star Author Ontario Posts:938 Points:482,715 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 7:00:07 AM Ignore EvergreenON Report Abuse Give us the choice at the pump, with or without Ethanol
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 1:09:00 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Shockjock1961, why don't you put diesel fuel in your Prius? It has a much higher BTU content than gasoline, so according to you, you should get much higher mileage.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 8:39:01 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "a BTU is a measurement of the ability of a fuel to change the temperature of water. Please explain how this is relevant to an internal combustion engine" An ICE is nothing more then a heat engine. Less heat, less work...
EvergreenON All-Star Author Ontario Posts:938 Points:482,715 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 7:42:13 AM Ignore EvergreenON Report Abuse I drive a 1999 Kia Rondo and with ethanol I am making 5 miles gallon less in same conditions and the engine is 'pinking'
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 8:50:03 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse ItisAJeepThing, a BTU is a measurement of the ability of a fuel to change the temperature of water. Please explain how this is relevant to an internal combustion engine. Perhaps you should read through the topic BTU's are 35% less for Ethanol but we are not heating water.
ItisAJeepThing Champion Author Tucson Posts:19,747 Points:2,150,605 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 7:00:40 PM Ignore ItisAJeepThing Report Abuse Ethanol has fewer BTUs than gasoline.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 7:04:12 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "From the average of the three cars studied there is a distinct link between greater concentrations of ethanol and decreased mileage..." More lies by Shockjock1961 AKA "The Liar" "One vehicle – the Toyota Camry – showed virtually no variance between unleaded and either of the E10 blends, and both E10 blends actually performed better than straight unleaded." "The Chevrolet Impala showed just over 1% lower MPG on E10 and E20, but gained .6% MPG operating on E30, and over 5% on the E10AK blend" The Troll proven wrong again - Priceless.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 6:58:59 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 AKA "The Liar" AKA The Troll did it again. He/she quotes half a sustenance trying to sell his/hers anti-ethanol propaganda. Here is the full sustenance that this Troll did not want you to see. "The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30, and miles per gallon actually increased by an average of 1.7% when using E10AK made with the specially denatured ethanol. E10AK was the highest mileage fuel in two of three cars." This Troll is not interested in truth, otherwise he/she would be long gone from here.
kwillyerd Rookie Author Houston Posts:5 Points:16,625 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 5:26:42 PM Ignore kwillyerd Report Abuse I love MotherEarthNews
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 1:23:21 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse So you are comparing an average of three cars to a single aberration and declaring from that that noone is going to be telling the difference? From the average of the three cars studied there is a distinct link between greater concentrations of ethanol and decreased mileage... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 2/2/2013 1:25:06 PM EST]
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 12:32:51 PM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse And also from the trial: "The Chevrolet Impala showed just over 1% lower MPG on E10 and E20, but gained .6% MPG operating on E30, and over 5% on the E10AK blend" In all cases, the results obtained during the trial are within such a margin, that no one driving in uncontrolled conditions is going to tell a difference.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 11:44:48 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse From the posted study: "The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30"
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 9:02:59 AM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse "And I run a cold-fusion reactor in my homes. It must be true since I read it on the internet. " ethanol-org///pdf/contentmgmt/ACEFuelEconomyStudy_001.pdf [Edited by: SoylentGrain at 2/2/2013 9:05:31 AM EST]
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:890 Points:419,050 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:19:06 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse All the claims of un-modified engines running E85 without any degradation in MPG... And I run a cold-fusion reactor in my homes. It must be true since I read it on the internet.
dgsteven All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:792 Points:205,825 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 3:13:05 AM Ignore dgsteven Report Abuse how is the risk?
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,933 Points:2,215,545 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 1:56:18 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse Skyjunky, I've run high ethanol blends in two unmodified non-Flex Fuel Vehicles for years with no performance or maintenance issues. What is your experience?
Skyjunky Veteran Author Portland Posts:482 Points:89,445 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 10:52:54 AM Ignore Skyjunky Report Abuse The only way I will burn a Alcohol burning car is if I have a Top Fuel Dragster with a blower on it that was SUPPOSE to burn ALCOHOL ...other wise I will keep getting LL 92% Oct fuel ....Go ahead and change out ALL your rubber hoses, but do not change them to steel lines, the condensation will cause them to pit and rust ......then your injectors will get plugged from all kinds of stuff that this Ethanol has caused. I know guys that make there own diesel with old french fry oil. It is a slow process and a messy one , But they do get a lot more MPG have fun growing your 20 acres of corn !!
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 9:17:48 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "Farmers will grow some kind of crop which will lower the over all prices of food..." Let's see some proof to your claim.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,113 Points:2,184,185 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 8:58:24 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "farmers simply grow less corn and price will remain high" Farmers will grow some kind of crop which will lower the over all prices of food...
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,322 Points:728,160 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 8:37:38 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse edwardj66 wrote: "No e85 for me... Not worth the risk..." What risk?