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Author Topic: Adapting Your Engine For Ethanol Back to Topics
SilverStreaker

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Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 8:48:49 PM

This Mother Earth News article may be old, but has a lot of useful information, including links on how to make your own ethanol.
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 12:10:22 PM

"I was not built for ethanol."

If you drink some sort of alcoholic beverage, you're already drinking some form of ethanol.
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darwinfinch
Veteran Author Gasbuddy

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 9:06:19 AM

"760 million bushels... Or almost 400 million gallons of ethanol... That will last the U.S. what, like 1 day, maybe 2?"

... at 2.8gpb, 760 bushels can be biorefined into 2.128 billion gallons of ethanol (and 13.7 billion pounds of animal feed, and other renewable byproducts).

That amount of ethanol, blended at 15%, would provide the entire American driving population a clean-burning, homegrown renewable fuel additive for 38.6 days.

[Edited by: darwinfinch at 8/8/2013 9:07:22 EST]
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smugutu1234
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 7:44:40 AM

I was not built for ethanol.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 12:08:18 AM

"The May 10th USDA Supply and Demand Report says we have 760 million bushels of corn on hand".

Or almost 400 million gallons of ethanol.

That will last the U.S. what, like 1 day, maybe 2?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 7, 2013 9:23:32 PM

WhiskeyBurner, more power to you!
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:23:00 AM

I'm seeing more power out of it in my car.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 10:53:29 AM

"I would like to know how you rig the timing on a computer controlled car???"

By reprogramming or changing out the computer...
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 9:19:08 AM

tuscolablue asks "Why on earth would anyone want to burn ethanol in their car? It decreases gas milage and horsepower."
It saves me money. I haven't seen any significant change in milage or horsepower at any ethanol blend in my non-FFVs.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:40:17 AM

tuscolablue wrote: "It decreases gas milage and horsepower."

Wrong, it increases horsepower.
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tuscolablue
Rookie Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:23:03 AM

Why on earth would anyone want to burn ethanol in their car? It decreases gas milage and horsepower. I go out of my way to burn gas with no ethanol in it.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 8:21:08 AM

Wrench45840 wrote: "I would like to know how you rig the timing on a computer controlled car???"

There are different ways of doing it depending on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers use chips that can be reprogrammed and some do not. If the ECU chip(s) can not be reprogrammed, you can add a piggy back computer to override parameters. The more expensive option, most of the time, would be to replace the whole ECU with aftermarket one and gain control over all the parameters.

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 6/5/2013 8:22:47 AM EST]
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 2:53:03 AM

Actually 100% of America's drivers can make their own ethanol legally. All they have to do is apply for a premit from the BATF.
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Wrench45840
Rookie Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 9:27:38 PM

I would like to know how you rig the timing on a computer controlled car???
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 9:48:17 AM

"Developing more horsepower than gasoline is an absolute"

You are not going to increase horespower simply by changing the timing. You are going to have to change out the injector(s) and reprogram or replace the computer in order for more fuel to be injected...
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 4, 2013 3:37:16 AM

Technically..........none of us, although you would probably get extra scrutiny in places like the Appalachian Mountains or the American South, lol!
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 5:17:38 PM

What percentage of drivers could possible make their own ethanol legally?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 8:22:14 AM

"take an old fashioned car and rig the timing for E85, you would probably get better overall performance both in horsepower and fuel mileage. "

Developing more horsepower than gasoline is an absolute (pun intended). No question that ethanol develops more HP than gasoline in any engine of equal displacement. Better fuel economy than gasoline, maybe. I'd love to see what someone did to achieve that.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 6/3/2013 8:22:52 AM EST]
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OceanArcher
Champion Author Mississippi

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Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 8:10:09 AM

aRBy hits the nail on the head with the comment --> "ethanol tolerant parts" my cares aren't
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aRBy
All-Star Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2013 12:36:48 PM

Holy smokes, SilverStreaker! That Mother Earth News article is OLD!

These days, darn near every car is built with electronic fuel injection that will easily accommodate ethanol. Here and there, you might have to replace fuel lines with those that are more ethanol tolerant. Otherwise, the engine and timing system can adjust to any mixture of ethanol and gasoline.

All that being said, I'll bet goldseeker is right. (Hiya goldseeker! Long time; no talk.) If you were to take an old fashioned car and rig the timing for E85, you would probably get better overall performance both in horsepower and fuel mileage.
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2013 3:52:50 AM

Any car in America can be adapted and quite easily. Most folks adapting an non-ffv to high blends of ethanol get much better mileage than a standard FFV. And the real tinker freaks get excellent performance with a noted increase in horsepower and mileage nearly equal to gasoline.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 11:31:38 AM

"Do you remember all the articles on the severe drought last year."

I remember the articles very well. I also, remember what was produced on my land last fall. While corn yield suffered, due to the weather, yields were much better than what the articles were predicting.

Genetics has a lot to do with 2012 production. Ten or fifteen years ago, last years weather would have devastated corn production. The genetic strains planted these days do work. Many hold up to periods of no water very well.

Also, for what it's worth, soybeans thrive in dry weather. The dry weather, coupled with rain, at the right time, produced a good soybean crop. Soy and other sources of protein were substituted for corn protein to take up the corn protein shortfall.

Free markets work.
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 10:15:34 AM

We did in the midwest soylent. Do you remember all the articles on the severe drought last year. They had rain in the south. Probably didn't have the shortage like the midwest did.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 9:54:14 AM

Oh I know we have surplus corn, I was just exposing how ethanoholics change the facts to suit whatever agenda they are currently expounding...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 9:03:06 AM

"We are? According to GameChanger, we ran out of corn last year..."

The May 10th USDA Supply and Demand Report says we have 760 million bushels of corn on hand.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 8:37:26 AM

"The fact of the matter is the US is a surplus producer of grain"

We are? According to GameChanger, we ran out of corn last year...
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smugutu1234
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: May 31, 2013 7:09:07 AM

Get rid of ethanol!
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 30, 2013 6:29:36 AM

"If anything search for Mizell's Kudzu sourced ethanol and bio diesel to keep us from using food sources as fuels . "

Exactly, which food crop are you going to displace to grow kudzu?

The fact of the matter is the US is a surplus producer of grain. The value of corn is we grow a surplus and each acre produces 600 gallons of ethanol and almost two tons of animal feed. That can't happen with grass.
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B5Quattro
Sophomore Author Akron

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Message Posted: May 28, 2013 9:16:19 PM

Not interested in adapting anything. Cars are manufactured and designed by engineers to be efficient by OE specs. Its not always possible to achieve better numbers by altering anything. If anything search for Mizell's Kudzu sourced ethanol and bio diesel to keep us from using food sources as fuels .
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WhiskeyBurner
Veteran Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 3:53:58 AM

Wonder if it went anywhere and how well it would work on BioDiesel and E85 instead of normal diesel and gas.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:53:46 PM

Another approach to bi fuel has been suggested by Chrysler.
diesel and gasoline.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/06/chrysler-developing-prototype-engine-that-burns-gasoline-and-diesel.html
The concept was funded thru April 2013; Any insight on how it will go forward?
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 11:45:58 PM

I think it's wrong to force us to have to adapt our engines to Ethanol when regular fuel is much better for our small engines & we get better fuel mileage with reg. gasoline of the ethanol.
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 8:18:52 PM

Many states have joined the voluntary part as they have invested interest (IE - state loan programs) into the ethanol market. So they want to protect themselves instead of the tax paying public who don't have a choice and used as risked pawns in the fake market demand for ethanol.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:06:31 AM

I don't have a car designed for diesil propane or ethanol, it is designed for gasoline and I have no reasonable choice to purchase r90. End of story.
I'm not interested in arguing with the ethanol lobby.
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tropicalmn
Veteran Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 3:07:42 PM

"I don't know what you guys are smoking, when you say we are not forced to use E10."
Ever hear of diesel fuel,Natural gas or LP Gas?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 2:56:17 PM

I don't know what you guys are smoking, when you say we are not forced to use E10.
But I've checked several sites and can find only about 6 stations in califoria that sell R90. No one has a car that drive the distance between these stations. So, tell me how I can effectively use R10 for fuel.
I would call this force. The need for fuel, forces me to use E10 or worse.
But that being said,
The EPA The reformulated gasoline (RFG) program requires reductions in automobile emissions of ozone-forming volatile organic compounds during the summer high-ozone season, and of toxic air pollutants and nitrogen oxides during the entire year in certain areas of the United States. Reformulated gasoline requires a minimum 2.1 percent oxygen by weight when averaging, which corresponds to approximately 11.7 volume percent MTBE or 5.8 volume percent ethanol. While the sale of Federal reformulated gasoline was mandated for only nine areas in the nation
with the most severe ozone pollution, other areas are allowed to voluntarily join the Federal RFG program.
I call this force, both by availability and by force of LAW.
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krzysiek_ck
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 10:44:13 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "Modern cars don't really need an oxygenated fuel."

You are assuming that air and fuel mixes perfectly all the time. As with any other assumptions and "facts" of yours you are wrong.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 9:37:22 AM

Modern cars don't really need an oxygenated fuel. The point is moot on that basis alone.
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tdioiler
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 8:36:29 PM

Wasn't it the EPA that 'forced' the use of MTBE?
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ugly46
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 5:31:41 PM

The ethanol industry is only around because the goverment has it't hands in it. If you really want clean fuel go to natural gas.
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giwan
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 10:00:12 AM

why would I?
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 3:54:33 PM

"Before you were "forced" to use E-10, you were forced to use MTBE, a highly toxic and harmful to engines additive"

MTBE is not "highly toxic", that's simply propaganda...

From THE EPA website (you know the department of the government that ethanol shills are so fond of):

Is MTBE harmful to humans? The majority of the human health-related research conducted to date on MTBE has focused on effects associated with the inhalation of the chemical. When research animals inhaled high concentrations of MTBE, some developed cancers or experienced other non-cancerous health effects To date, independent expert review groups who have assessed MTBE inhalation health risks (e.g., Interagency Assessment of Oxygenated Fuels) have not concluded that the use of MTBE-oxygenated gasoline poses an imminent threat to public health. However, researchers have limited data about what the health effects may be if a person swallows (ingests) MTBE. EPA's Office of Water has concluded that available data are not adequate to estimate potential health risks of MTBE at low exposure levels in drinking water but that the data support the conclusion that MTBE is a potential human carcinogen at high doses. Recent work by EPA and other researchers is expected to help determine more precisely the potential for health effects from MTBE in drinking water.
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 3:21:15 PM

Before you were "forced" to use E-10, you were forced to use MTBE, a highly toxic and harmful to engines additive in gasoline that the oil companies wanted to put in it. Now they are paying for all the people they have poisoned. Ethanol is good for engines unlike MTBE, and does not cause environmental harm.

And I ask the question again that kryzsiek_ck asked. When were you forced to use E-85, or E-15. Most places don't even require E-10.

[Edited by: Hannie59 at 4/16/2013 3:22:42 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 2:25:34 PM

The problem is, that if the average American had a choice, the ethanol industry would disappear...
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 8:21:03 AM

Wanda127 wrote: "We should have a choice to get the type fuel we need for our vehicle & not be forced to use Ethanol especially the E85!"

How exactly are you forced to use E85?
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 12:14:15 AM

We should have a choice to get the type fuel we need for our vehicle & not be forced to use Ethanol especially the E85!
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 8:33:59 AM

"Brake Thermal Efficiency represents in percentage terms the amount of energy converted from fuel into useful mechanical work by the engine. A engine with a higher BTE level is more efficient, offering the potential for increased fuel efficiency and associated reductions in CO2 emissions. Percentage point improvements in this are hard-earned."

Cummins Targeting 50% Efficiency and 2010 Emissions via Waste Heat Recovery Scheme

So Shockjock1961, What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency?

[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 4/15/2013 8:38:04 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 8:23:05 AM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "If you did, then you would know that the brake thermal efficiency is generally determined by engine and transmission design, not by the fuel component..."

Another idiotic answer by Shockjock1961, what a surprise. Would you like to give it one more try, Shockjock1961?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:54:12 PM

"You assume he knows what brake thermal efficiency is."

The question is SS, do you know what it is? If you did, then you would know that the brake thermal efficiency is generally determined by engine and transmission design, not by the fuel component...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/14/2013 5:54:57 PM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:04:53 PM

krzysiek_ck asked Shocky "What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency?"

You assume he knows what brake thermal efficiency is.
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 8:45:53 PM

Shockjock1961 wrote: "I don't know about specifics since you haven't presented any SS, but the amount of work heat engines do is directly related to the heat content of the fuel used..."

What is the brake thermal efficiency? What is the difference between gasoline and ethanol when it comes to the brake thermal efficiency?
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