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Author Topic: E85 Sales to E85 / Flex Fuel vehicles - Why not mandate this? Back to Topics
reb4

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2012 8:47:49 AM

Checking promises on flexible-fuel cars

According to this article, (politics aside)...
Excerpts:
There were over 504,297 flex fuel vehicles in use in 2009.
There were over 805,877 E85 Vehicles "made available", compared to 9.2 Million Light duty Vehicles in United States that year.

I have no reason to dispute these numbers and actually think they may be low...

Now if 400,000 flex fuel vehicles would use the e85 blend what would happen?

Lets take those vehicles and figure average use of 10,000 miles a year.
Lets be very generous, and say that on average the flex fuel vehicle gets 20 mpg. So that would be 500 gallons of fuel.

of that 500 gallons, 425 would be ethanol.
if the 400K vehicles used the e85..: 17,000,000 gallons of ethanol.

Currently the ethanol mandate is 14 billion gallons.

Maybe instead of putting ethanol into all of the fuel, an emphasis should be placed on getting the people that have Flex Fuel vehicles to actually use it.

proposed biofuel mandates for 2012 and the blend wall



[Edited by: reb4 at 2/18/2012 8:48:48 AM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2012 10:42:31 PM

According to this site - the Ethanol — Flex Fuel vehicles totaled 8,673,724 in 2010

So i guess if they just got the people driving flex fuel vehicles to use the stuff, no need to raise the levels in non ffv's.

In fact, why don't the ethanol folks just open ethanol fueling stations with 15 - 20 % gasoline and take advantage of this huge market of vehicles capable of using the fuel...

makes you stop and think...

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the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:18:57 AM

Don't know why flex fuels are manufactured.
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EdWoods
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2012 8:27:24 AM

How about if we just drill more wells and stop worrying about all the Green stuff. This nation, in fact, this planet, can't afford to be "Green" It's too expensive...
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 18, 2012 8:43:16 AM

10261970, according to this site looks like 8 sites that are public... good luck ...

Should talk to Governor Brown why they don't have more e85 stations.. With Prices maybe a pipeline could be built (hee, hee)... to supply the great demand...
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2012 4:31:55 PM

10261970, watch out, reb4 wants to mandate that you drive to an E85 station, no matter how far away.
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10261970
All-Star Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2012 12:24:43 PM

I have a vehicle that can run on e85. I'd love to use e85 exclusively. The problem is there is not enough stations around to use it 100% of the time.
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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2012 8:27:23 AM

" Perfect use for a low octane fuel in a vehicle that uses torgue from the electric motors. "

Not that it makes any difference. But, ethanol has an octane rating of 113.
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tdioiler
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2012 8:09:07 AM

I really wish they would build 100% ethanol hybrids. Perfect use for a low octane fuel in a vehicle that uses torgue from the electric motors.
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crmedic
Champion Author Arkansas

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2012 5:11:50 PM

Anytime I hear the word "MANDATE" I get worried. We have to many things in our lives mandated. Should there be a mandate to sterilize children who come from a "shallow gene pool" as determined by some guv'mint bureaucrat. Can't we offer some type of incentive for the use of E85? I say NO to mandates of any kind!
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v93401
Rookie Author California

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2012 12:48:07 PM

I don't know - My son has one and loves it !
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pilotmass
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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2012 4:57:06 AM

Probably more expensive
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 10:37:40 PM

morepwr, do you have an ffv?

If you do, and you are near this location... you could check it out...

Silvas Oil Co Inc - Pearson Fuels
6417 Ventura Blvd
Ventura, CA 93003
805-288-5477

Best of luck... And if you do own one, pleas use it... the ethanol industry needs your support... Sorry to see gasoline prices are 4.30 out there...

Please come back and visit often... ACE...
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morepwr
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 12:29:51 PM

I dont even know of a station in my area that sells the e85. Most of the people I know with flex fuel cars have never run it because it isnt available.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 11:47:07 AM

"Read your footnotes, reb4. You've got some double and triple accounting going on."

GM1954, not my footnotes, they are from eia.gov site.

GM1954, could you post a corresponding link to back up your claims

1. "the E85 chart you referenced is in gasoline equivalents. That means the number is actually 30% higher"
Also, using your claim (un substantiated by the way)

8,993,000
0,007,670 - using your 30% higher number than my original link posted.

That works out to less than 1 tenth of 1%.
And these numbers are WELL HIDDEN. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY. THESE NUMBERS ARE PATHETIC! Or do you disagree?

2. " most people don't know what E85 is or have bought into anti ethanol propaganda hook line and sinker"

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GM1954
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 9:31:49 AM

Read your footnotes, reb4. You've got some double and triple accounting going on.

"e Finished motor gasoline. Beginning in 1993, also includes fuel ethanol blended into motor gasoline."

Furthermore, the E85 chart you referenced is in gasoline equivalents. That means the number is actually 30% higher. Regardless, most people don't know what E85 is or have bought into anti ethanol propaganda hook line and sinker. That's obvious. Other than that, do you have a point?

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RalphHightower
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 6:19:46 AM

My car is a flex fuel vehicle, but I've never put E85 in my car. I would rather use E0 gas.
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Lengas
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2012 6:11:00 AM

No way.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2012 11:04:30 PM

2010 avg barrels sold per day - 8,993,000

Contrast that number -

2010 avg barrels sold per day - 5,900

There in lies the myth of ethanol...

8,993,000
0,005,900

and e85 has 15% (actually more ) gasoline in it..

More drivers need to use this to make a difference...
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2012 12:34:42 PM

if half of the e85 vehicles supposedly on the road today would use e85 half of the time, the ethanol industry would not be able to supply the demand...

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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 1, 2012 12:55:37 PM

"tell me reb4, do you usually avoid answering questions by replying with a question? "

Silverstreaker, I believe the message posted on Sep 30, 2012 at 6:06:23 PM is pretty clear that I know people purchase e85. Someone has to, just not enough as I have posted all along. The ethanol industry (and fans) are always making excuses...

And change my calculation in my original posting to use the 10,000,000 vhicles on the road.... Why is there a need to put the e15 into the fuel? Or have a "mandate" of amount of Ethanol sold?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 1, 2012 10:04:50 AM

tell me reb4, do you usually avoid answering questions by replying with a question?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 1, 2012 8:25:20 AM

tell me silverstreaker, if enough people bought e85, would there be a "blend wall" that the ethanol industry would be so worried about... or is that just B.S.?

And there was no discussion of how many gallons is typically sold at these locations... with comparable sales.



[Edited by: reb4 at 10/1/2012 8:32:07 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2012 7:41:34 PM

reb4 reports "So far, the DOT reports that more than 10,000 gallons have been dispensed since the pumps were installed in August."

Does this mean that you no longer think no one buys it?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2012 7:06:23 PM

Wolfman48, but then the people that used it would feel better. And from what I have heard it smells good (I have not personally done the sniff test).

Now serving: E85 fuel on Mass. Turnpike

WHat i thought was interesting was the number of e85 vehicles on the road...

"In the United States, there are more than 10 million flexible-fuel vehicles on the road, vehicles that can use either unleaded gasoline or E85, or both, in the same tank. In Massachusetts, there are around 100,000 flexible-fuel vehicles registered, according to DOT spokeswoman Sara Lavoie. "

"So far, the DOT reports that more than 10,000 gallons have been dispensed since the pumps were installed in August."

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wolfman48
Rookie Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2012 6:24:24 PM

Edited to remove a fully copied article.

This is considered plagiarism, and is not permitted.

You can copy an excerpt from the article (a couple of paragraphs), then and link to your source for the rest.



[Edited by: Don at 10/1/2012 5:51:06 PM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2012 7:19:56 PM

One in Four Car Owners are More Interested in Hybrid Vehicles than a Year Ago

Interesting what alternative vehicels are listed...

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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2012 10:12:50 AM

don't hear to much on the flex fuel vehicle issue of late. At least pertaining to ethanol ...
[L=http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text deleted One in Four Car Owners are More Interested in Hybrid Vehicles than a Year Ago[/L]E85 isn't even discussed...
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tattoo666TX
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2012 9:41:34 PM

Well ProfDude, like I said in a post somewhere on here, E-85 is not sold in this part of Texas and the owners of stations that I have talked with said that unless there is a law or mandate put in place that would force them to sell it, they will not carry it. Where I get gas at only sells premium (93 octane) non-ethanol gas. The owner there said he will not sell anything with ethanol in it unless he was forced to.
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ProfDude
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2012 4:35:08 PM

reb4, I thought I would use your thread here to post this... hope you don't mind remaining famous and popular for just a little while longer.

Years ago I used to purchase E85 at the Speedway on Touhy, near I-90, in Des Plaines, Illinois. This is just north of O'Hare International Airport, but access to the either of the nearby Interstates is not available right there by the station. Earlier today I stopped by just to see what happened to the old E85 pump.

It is still there, but it is marked as unleaded and it has the plastic bag over the handle. This is one of those pumps that is far away from the c-store and not under a canopy. I recall having to pull up to the pump, make the long walk into the store to get the cashier to take my credit card in exchange for turning on the pump, then to walk out to the car to refuel, then to walk back in to pay, then back out to the car before driving off. And, if they turned the pump on too soon from inside the store (it had a 60 second timer and would shut off again if I didn't start refueling in time) or if they forgot I was out there and waiting, I would have to walk back in and out again just to be able to refuel.

Did I mention that there are four tank lids immediately adjacent to the old pump and so sometimes a refueling tanker and I would be in each other's way when I was refueling my 32 gallon tank Suburban, or trying to do so? Filling up here was quite the ordeal.

All of the above awkwardness notwithstanding, it is not a good sign for ethanol fans when stations that already have the E85 tank and pump, stop selling the fuel altogether. There are a quite a few instances where this has happened in the greater Chicago market. Considering how relatively new the mainstream E85 market is, this does not point toward greater sales or availability of E85 in the future.

Often the jilted tank is refilled with racing gasoline or other more viable product. In this case, it just sits idle.
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olympusman2004
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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2012 1:07:30 AM

cant use it
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tattoo666TX
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 12:39:27 AM

400,000 FFV's would be getting crappy mileage!
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Bus936
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 12:13:54 AM

I currently own a new car and I can't burn this E85 crap.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2012 7:06:08 PM

Flex fuel vehicles are quite plentiful, yet if just half of the owners of these vehicles would use it, even half of the time, there would be no need to mandate 10%, and likely be able to offer e0 to markets at higher price...

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Cummins2500
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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2012 2:17:17 PM

Despite having a higher octane rating, E85 has a lower overall energy density than pure pump fuel. Pure gasoline contains approximately 125,000 BTUs per gallon, while E85 contains approximately 84,000. This means that a greater volume of E85 must be utilized to realize the same energy content.
The above info is from Advanced Performance Tuning
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tattoo666TX
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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2012 1:41:59 AM

Because some of use with flex fuel vehicles have found out that we get twice the mileage using non-ethanol gas.
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ez211
Rookie Author Birmingham

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Message Posted: Jun 11, 2012 3:03:13 PM

would use e-85 in car but closest station 20 miles away
would use no ethaol in other vehicle but closest is 24 miles
so e-10 goes in both
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GM1954
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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2012 8:17:46 AM

"But the facts remain gc2011, the ethanol is not being used enough to meet the mandated ethanol that is required to be put in the fuel..."

If you were going to choose an issue that created a major economic bottleneck in this country, this would be it. The looming day that the industry crashes into the "blend wall" will result in .....absolutely nothing. Cars and trucks will continue to roll down the highway, just as before.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2012 8:57:39 PM

But the facts remain gc2011, the ethanol is not being used enough to meet the mandated ethanol that is required to be put in the fuel...

Just the facts...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2012 11:21:22 AM

Hmmm... Wasn't GC complaining in another forum that people spent to much attacking others and not enough time discussing the facts and issues?
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2012 9:01:01 AM

This one?Reb4 said......"I love reading these old posts, and they are so timely.

I particularly like reading my posts battling the contradictions and spins..."

Definition of narcissism....
"1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself. See Synonyms at conceit.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem." :)
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2012 8:59:35 AM

Which posting are you talking about?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2012 8:31:57 AM

gamechanger2011, your reference to this needs to be discussed in this section, not somewhere else. Don't you agree...
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 5:22:25 PM

silverstreaker,

wow, sounds like a real deal...

1. "Used reward points" to get 50 cents off a gallon (so how did he get rewards points?)
2. "doubled to $1" Did he spin a wheel to get it?
3. "25 gallons" WOW, my tank is 11 gallons, I guess I could bring I think I have 11 gallons of fuel containers... BUT WOW!!!
etc... My he sure is lucky to have saved all that money... But The coupon I posted, which was as a service to any ethanol people that could use e85 seemed a little easier... but hey that's me...
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 9:47:22 PM

reb4 says "gee silverstreaker, never had any coupon offered for $10 off a specific fuel.
Let me know when you see one like that will ya.."

Obviously, you didn't read the Twin Cities Coupons topic:
quiznut1 posted "Filled up both cars at Blaine SA tonight. Used reward points to get 50 cents off a gallon that was doubled to $1. Pumped 25 gallons (max allowed) and got $25 off, plus 3 cents off per gallon using the fuel gift card, and 5% back on the credit card."

quiznut1 got at least $12.50 off the fill of one of his vehicles by purchasing non-E85 fuel, possibly both vehicles.

[Edited by: SilverStreaker at 5/26/2012 9:49:26 PM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 5:44:36 PM

gee silverstreaker, never had any coupon offered for $10 off a specific fuel.
Let me know when you see one like that will ya..

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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 4:27:26 PM

Gasoline coupons are readily available in the Twin Cities on the Coupons topic.

All kinds of gimmicks to get you to use it!

E85 coupons are rare.

[Edited by: SilverStreaker at 5/26/2012 4:28:01 PM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 2:57:38 PM

gamechanger2011, I have taken the steps I've taken for many reasons...

I actually can drive downtown and park about 2 miles from work and "walk" to work now and save money... Commuting costs more... for me, though probably more convenient and reliable...

As for the hybrid, wanted to not be influenced as much by wide swings of gasoline prices, which I am not at all now when I average 52MPG! In summer my average goes up!

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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 2:50:30 PM

For those in Illinois, here is a coupon for e85 purchase!

All kinds of gimmicks to get you to use it!
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Hannie59
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Message Posted: May 22, 2012 3:35:49 PM

Ya know, reb4...I am an ardent supporter and unquestionably on the side of ethanol use. But reb4 has the first valid argument, if we are all referring to the RFS (renewable fuel standard)...well close to a valid argumnent save the mandate part.

What ethanol industry needs to be doing, is pushing E-85 as a true alternative to petroleum, not trying to push up the gasoline blends.

E-85 really is the key. E-85 and the blender pumps that allow users to choose the blend level. Ethanol is superior and it would be convincing all users to adopt e-85 usage...IMO is better than mandating and bumping up the blend levels. I do not support a mandate of the usage of e-85, I am a big believer in choice. However, if the ethanol industry put as much effort into pushing E-85 as a true alternative as opposed to trying to bump the blend levels up, that would be a better way to go.

I only argue to combat the myths such as engine damage, and the myth of food costs. Ethanol in itself is not what the naysayers portray, that's why I argue.



[Edited by: Hannie59 at 5/22/2012 3:40:57 PM EST]
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: May 21, 2012 1:30:32 PM

Reb4...I think that you taking those measures to save money....aren't you?
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