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Author Topic: 2012 MPG ratings of FFV - from U.S. Department of energy Back to Topics
reb4

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 1:15:12 PM

Fuel Economy ratings of 2012 cars from U.S. Department of Energy

As usual, these are guides and some people will get better than claimed, just like the old saying, your mileage will vary...

some examples :
chevy malibu - 22 city - 33 Higway on gas... 15 city - 23 Highway on E85.
Saab 9-5 Sedan -20 city - 33 Higway on gas ... 15 city - 23 Highway on E85
Ford Fusion - 20 City - 28 Highway on gas ... 14 city - 21 Highway on E85
Chevy Silverado - 15 city / 22 Highway on gas - 11 City - 16 Highwat on e85
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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MsPeachi747
Veteran Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:13:46 PM

When will E85 be available at various locations in Cleveland, OH. What is better about E85 compared to Mid grade or High grade gasoline?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2012 1:42:53 PM

"Grumpycat, if more people used e85, they could offer more e0"

That's the whole idea: More ethanol, more gasoline.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2012 6:57:13 PM

Grumpycat, if more people used e85, they could offer more e0... Shhhh...
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2012 3:38:21 PM

An average hit of 28.5% if one uses E85.

So for cost parity if E10 gets 33 MPG and E85 gets 23 then if E10 is $3.599, E85 is worth no more than $2.575.

At best E85 is only worth $1.00/gallon less than gasoline.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2012 7:39:42 PM

Here is power search option, to get mpg for the bigger vehicles...

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olympusman2004
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2012 1:06:57 AM

17
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 5:48:57 PM

GrumpyCat, Not sure Ford is just doing what you are imdicating, but I think the comment about ford not prompting goes along with typical marketing.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 1:00:42 PM

GRUMPYCAT writes: What other reason is there? Government regulation almost NEVER produces the stated intent.
_____
That is simply ultra conservative propaganda designed to disenfranchise the American people. In the vast majority of cases, the government is relatively successful. It is simply unrealistic to expect that the stated intent will ever be reached exactly but they usually come pretty close.
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number4
Sophomore Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 10:36:27 AM

chevy malibu 17 with ac on
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 9:09:57 AM

"reb4, another fine example of a US auto maker using their standard engine, changing a few parts, and slapping an FFV sticker on it. Go to the Ford website and try to find a FFV. You really have to hunt to find them. That shows you how dedicated they are to making FFVs. I think the only reason that they are producing them is to get around the CAFE standards."

What other reason is there? Government regulation almost NEVER produces the stated intent. CAFE regulations are so lop-sided in favor of ethanol its a laugh. For those who do not know the ethanol content does not count at all, only the gasoline. E85 and gasoline consumption are averaged as if the consumer used one half the time. So if you get 10 MPG on E85 that is 15% gasoline then 10 miles on 0.15 gallons of gasoline counts as 66.7 MPG. Then if you get 15 MPG on gasoline its 0.67 gallons for that 10 miles, total gasoline use 0.817 gallons for 20 miles which results a 24.5 MPG CAFE average for a 15 MPG car. Easy money, thats why they do it. For no other reason than government regulation makes it lucrative.

A bit surprised they don't allow counting the 10% ethanol in E10 the same as they tally E85. But we're talking about professional bureaucrats who wouldn't dare undercut their own authority and orthogonally apply their own rules.

Nobody cares that E85 MPG stinks as few will ever see E85 in the tank *because* the MPG and operating cost stinks. I know my 2001 Sonoma with the FFV 2.2L *never* saw E85.
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WE0H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 3:04:11 AM

My 2012 Prius got 46 mpg on it's last tank of E57 blend. Not too shabby for that much 'shine in the tank :) No codes either. Keep in mind I have the 17" wheels/tires, not the 15" which will get about 4-6 mpg higher.

[Edited by: WE0H at 7/8/2012 3:04:55 AM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2012 2:14:01 AM

Ouch.

Ok so how does this work:
E85 is knocking 10mpg off some of these vehicles. Yet we are expected to believe that using E10 or E15 will have no effect on fuel economy versus regular gas?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 7/8/2012 2:17:37 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2012 9:59:05 PM

reb4, another fine example of a US auto maker using their standard engine, changing a few parts, and slapping an FFV sticker on it. Go to the Ford website and try to find a FFV. You really have to hunt to find them. That shows you how dedicated they are to making FFVs. I think the only reason that they are producing them is to get around the CAFE standards.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2012 7:15:17 PM

ford focus has availability of ffv (e85).
Gas 28MPG city - 33 Combined - 40 Highway
e85 20MPG city - 23 Combined - 28 Highway

Interesting that tailpipe emissions is rated higher for the e85 than the gas... go figure...
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tattoo666TX
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Message Posted: Jun 2, 2012 12:41:36 AM

I have been telling people. The mileage I get with E-85 is so bad that I am glad they do not sell it around here. I have also been telling people how much better my mileage is now that I found a station that only sels premium non-ethanol. They were selling mid grade but can only get it in premium now. I went and filled up the Cobalt that my wife drives with it today. It still had 1/4 tank in it when I got to the station. It is 43 miles from where we live to where this station is. On the 43 miles going to the station, the computer on her car said it averaged 31.5 mpg. On the 43 miles back home it said it averaged 39.3. I have been putting the info for my truck into an EXCEL sheet to get all the numbers. Have only run about a tank and 1/2 so far on the truck. Started another sheet today to see the exact numbers on her car.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 11:30:39 PM

Car Manufacturers test vehicles. And many automobile manufacturers have expressed concern to the e15.. Lets not forget the petition for putting 50% more ethanol in the allowable ethanol in vehicles...

Table 3-1 is quite telling....

Fuel economy is pretty consistent... More ethanol, less fuel economy. At least from this complete and detailed test...

I still am waiting for the extensive testing done by the government ensuring that adding 50% more ethanol in the fuel is not going to cause ill effect to the vehicle. Besides fuel economy...
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 9:27:52 PM

Also from the US Dept of Energy...."E85 is a high-level gasoline-ethanol blend containing 51% to 83% ethanol, depending on geography and season (see Fuel Properties and E85 Specifications). It is considered an alternative fuel under the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPAct) and can be used in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs), which are commonly available from domestic and foreign automakers. Use the Vehicle Cost Calculator to look up FFV fuel economy, fuel costs, and greenhouse gas reductions.

Other than lower gas mileage, motorists will see little difference when using E85 versus gasoline. E85 has about 27% less energy per gallon than gasoline (mileage penalty lessens as ethanol content decreases), but, because ethanol is a high-octane fuel, it offers increased vehicle power and performance. Learn about E85 Emissions."US Dept of Energy on E85
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 9:04:49 PM

From the same link....
The funniest thing to me is that the anti ethanol group don't trust the EPA when it comes to their method of testing E15....but they want you to believe the EPA's testing results when it benefits their cause! :)

From the same link....
Your Mileage will still vary

"EPA tests are designed to reflect "typical" driving conditions and driver behavior, but several factors can affect MPG significantly:

How & Where You Drive
Vehicle Condition & Maintenance
Fuel Variations
Vehicle Variations
Engine Break-In
Therefore, the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing the fuel economies of different vehicles but may not accurately predict the average MPG you will get.

To find out what you can do to improve the fuel economy of your car, see Driving More Efficiently and Keeping Your Car in Shape."



[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 6/1/2012 9:05:16 PM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 7:39:43 PM

gamechanger2011, "EPA tests 10% - 15% of the cars, but MFG's are responsible for the accurate information...
Let me repeat the statement ...

Manufacturers test "all" the vehicles at their laboratories. EPA confirms about 10-15 percent of the vehicles at its National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Michigan.For those that don't like Government testing ... Consumers reports did their own testing...

Overview of testing by Consumers Reports - Published January 2011...

James48843, thanks for your testimonial, you should talk to GM/Chevy... "

here was my response back then, and it's still good..

There's another poster that indicates he has driven 100,000's of miles on both e10 and e85 and has noted barely any difference... yet if that was the case, why would anyone use the more expensive fuel...

It is A MYSTERY...
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 7:35:55 PM

silverstreaker, i've decided to do what the ethanol pack does... ANd you thought i wouldn't follow you example...

And what year is it? I think it's 2012... at least i hope so...

And this is a rating for 2012 vehicles... wow ... amazing...
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 5:50:51 PM

From James 48843....

"Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 5:55:06 AM Ignore James48843
Actually, the EPA does not test vehicles on E85. The EPA simply calculates by taking the gasoline MPG by 0.7, and publishes the result. Many pro-ethanol advocates complain, but EPA so far refuses to actually test using E85.

Personally, on my Impala, I get 32 MPG highway on E85, and 34 MPG on gasoline. The EPA estimate for my car is 20 MPG highway for E85. It's simply not true that I can even get close to 20 MPG.

That's the fact."
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antiguzzle
Sophomore Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:56:31 PM

Great bump Reb!!!!

Look at all the crying from the Corn Crew...

QQ
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 11:12:23 AM

Exactly Silverstreaker. And for the record I wouldn't waste my time turning you in Reb4. I think that you are heavily invested in Gasbuddy since you hold Gasbuddy meetings. I'm sure that the Gasbuddy people know you well.

[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 6/1/2012 11:17:34 AM EST]
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 11:05:06 AM

reb4 posted Jan 6, 2012 1:15:41 PM in Here is 1 FACT why Food Prices are rising...:

"stop bumping old inactive topics. This had not been active for 6 months. that's 3x's the guideline.from general forum guidelines"

Then May 31, 2012 10:35:19 AM in Name Calling and Personal Attacks:

"Then there are people that go about and preach do what I say, not what I do..."
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 8:22:56 AM

please report me, as I would then like to report all the old bumps 4 to 9 months old that have been ressurecting from the ethanol pack...

You will be reporting similar postings in some of the other "bumped" forums, right... cause you claim your no hypocrite...
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gamechanger2011
Champion Author Wichita

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Message Posted: May 31, 2012 10:05:50 PM

Forum Rules....
"13. Please do not bump old, inactive threads. If a topic has been inactive for two months or more, please do not post in it. If you want to post to an older topic, please let Admin know beforehand so we can make a note of it and ask other members not to report you for doing it."
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 31, 2012 10:03:19 PM

these postings are so interesting... especially the amazing mpg
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 8:57:54 AM

Oh, and by the way, the epa estimates for MPG ratings using gasoline is based on NO ETHANOL !!!

Do EPA fuel economy estimates account for the use of ethanol blends that are common today?

No. The EPA fuel economy tests use 100 percent gasoline, and no adjustments are made to account for ethanol. Most conventional vehicles using E10 (10 percent ethanol) will experience a 3 to 4 percent reduction in fuel economy.

Might explain James48843's impala not to mention the fact that using e85 so much the remaining e85 fuel still in the tank...

[Edited by: reb4 at 8/10/2011 9:00:12 AM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 8:42:35 AM

EPA tests 10% - 15% of the cars, but MFG's are responsible for the accurate information...
Let me repeat the statement ...

Manufacturers test "all" the vehicles at their laboratories. EPA confirms about 10-15 percent of the vehicles at its National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Michigan.For those that don't like Government testing ... Consumers reports did their own testing...

Overview of testing by Consumers Reports - Published January 2011...

James48843, thanks for your testimonial, you should talk to GM/Chevy...
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goldseeker
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 7:39:54 AM

This government report is useless. Since when did the government ever get anything right?
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James48843
Veteran Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2011 6:55:06 AM

Actually, the EPA does not test vehicles on E85. The EPA simply calculates by taking the gasoline MPG by 0.7, and publishes the result. Many pro-ethanol advocates complain, but EPA so far refuses to actually test using E85.

Personally, on my Impala, I get 32 MPG highway on E85, and 34 MPG on gasoline. The EPA estimate for my car is 20 MPG highway for E85. It's simply not true that I can even get close to 20 MPG.

That's the fact.
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roadrunnin
Champion Author Richmond

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 7:32:49 PM

interesting to see this in a gov't report. so not so great w/ ethanol.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2011 5:19:57 PM

So much for the idea that your mileage doesn't go down when you use ethanol...
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