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Author Topic: What E85 good for? Back to Topics
Bonito

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2007 8:17:31 PM

The stations I see are charging the same or more for E85, SO WHO WANTS IT? So we are using less oil -- big deal! E85 will not fly in the US unless we ARE REQUIRED to use it or IT'S CHEAPER!
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Dilligaf1220
Rookie Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Apr 27, 2015 10:04:09 PM

why change to 15% Ethanol?
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luvmyburgi
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 11:26:42 PM

Nothing
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 10:50:27 AM

"It's great for high horsepower turbocharged engines. It has a great octane rating and it provides natural "intercooling"."

Any motor that can use a higher octane gas can use ethanol with changouts in fuel delivery systems and care of materials in said systems. And my times reflect yours PhilnTX - and if you were to dyno your car(s) they would show the same type of gains as mine does.
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PhilnTX
All-Star Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 10:31:34 AM

It's great for high horsepower turbocharged engines. It has a great octane rating and it provides natural "intercooling".
E85 with its 105 octane rating and high tolerance to detonation is superior to premium pump gas and equal to and in most cases better than 110 octane race gas. Many cars pick up a 1 to 2 tenths of a second and 2 to 3 miles per hour in the eighth mile after switching to E85 from 110 race gas and engines runs 20 degrees cooler.
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erfuelman
Veteran Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 9:58:22 AM

not good for much.
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cwje
Rookie Author Springfield

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 9:56:09 AM

I can nt figure out what E85 is good for. All reviews that i read suggest not using unless you want problems with your motoer.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 10:32:41 AM

Jay Leno is in no way an engineer or chemist, but he has personal (anecdotal) evidence about the use of ethanol in older vehicles. I would no more take his word for what he sees than I would visit my neighbor to the south (a banker) for medical advice, even though he goes to the doctor several times a month. He may own a lot of cars, but I work with people who do tribology and fuel analysis for a living (aerospace), and my own anecdotal evidence says the fuel system in a 1975 280 Benz (accelerator pump diaphram for one) was not compatible with ethanol - I changed out to a newer material in the diaphram and viola - no more failures.

Older vehicles were not engineered to use ethanol, and many of the seals and fuel system parts are not compatible with ethanol in even low concentrations. If you have an older auto, you should try to avoid using ethanol unless you are able to acquire the needed parts to convert, or they are display pieces only.

Newer vehicles can be made ethanol friendly (flex fuel vehicles etc)easily, but most of the fleet is not designed to run on high ethanol content fuel.
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retiredssgt
All-Star Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 10:06:28 AM

E85 is better for the environment
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 4:00:50 AM

Alexi7, show me YOUR link to your own show about automobiles
Jay Leno has his, and is well renowned for it. Owns over 280 vehicles Currently (more than you'll own your whole life)
So this conversation is a joke! Tell me are you daft? Your right about one thing though, your making NW Ohio look dim..and your doing it all on your own.
This conversation is over, I don't discuss things with those that are not equipped to have one.
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Alexi7
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 3:36:22 AM

JayBurt: Show me Leno's credentials. "Working in a dealership" doesn't mean crap these days. I know plenty of guys that can rebuild about a small-block Chevy like most people tie their shoes. Yeah, they know the nuts and bolts stuff, but not a bit about the engineering involved.
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 1:06:50 AM

50 yrs. of experience including working at dealerships when he was just a lad, Alexi7
Where is your link to Your articles in Autoweek? unless you can provide them don't talk to me about Leno again, your just being ridiculous.

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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2015 3:00:08 PM


delete

[Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 4/20/2015 3:03:36 PM EST]
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Alexi7
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2015 2:45:19 AM

Jayburt: Leno is at best a good shadetree mechanic without a degree in anything automotive. Mr. Leno is hardly a Roger Penske, Dan Gurney, Colin Chapman, Ferdinand Porsche, Enzo Ferrari,Jack Brabham, etc. None of those guys had TV shows.
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2015 12:22:45 AM

Alexi7, speak for yourself..and you do. These people on here that want to dispute Jay Leno
Link to your articles in highly respected automobile publications..waiting
Show links to your shows on vehicles and automotive issues and restoration...
If you can't..don't say a word about him being an 'entertainer' as he is not introduced as such on his OWN Shows! Or in major respected automobile publications. You don't like his knowledge, fine, but don't try to cut him down because of his side job..you just make yourself look even sillier.
Now we are waiting on your links...
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jonjax14
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 4:37:47 PM

ok
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 2:04:10 PM

Nope - a gallon of ethanol has 80k BTU and weighs 6.59 lb. A gallon of gas weighs less than ethanol (6-6.5lb) and has 115K BTU. the amount of air that can be delivered to most cars is limited by intake system (generally done In cubic feet per minute). If your math was correct my yellow car would be a much quicker car on ethanol than gas, it ain't (slightly, but it does not get a 30% gain in power by any means). Neither is anyone else who runs in the same class as me - sorry Soylent - defending ethanol with hooey is not a good thing. I support the idea, but you need to be careful running it. My yellow car last summer ran 1172 RWHP on ethanol and 1132 RWHP on 108 av gas. We have full control of fuel (pressure/pulse start/pulse width) and spark (timing/plug gap/voltage rise etc) - and these are the numbers for real and at full throttle - car can run either fuel with only computer and plug changes - as can others who race in my class and have very similar results. My intake is also fully capable of up to 2K hp - but I'm not a good enough driver to even handle what I have.

I would love it if we would engineer the U.S. Fleet for ethanol and thumb our noses at Putin and the terrorists, it's not there yet,

[Edited by: nru at 4/18/2015 2:06:30 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 12:25:44 PM

you need to deliver about 50% more fuel (by weight or volume) to get the same power

Wrong, a pound of ethanol delivers about the same amount of hp as does a pound of gasoline. Because less air is required to burn the same amount of fuel more can be delivered through a fixed diameter intake. Thus, 30% more horse power in the same engine. (yes, different jets and or fuel pump pressure).

But, the same physics applies to passenger cars; at wide open throttle, more ethanol can be delivered than gasoline. So, more horsepower.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 11:43:49 AM

And Soylent, in order to run ethanol/alcohol as a fuel, you need bigger injectors and I run higher fuel pressure - you need to deliver about 50% more fuel (by weight or volume) to get the same power - energy density by weight or volume is LESS in ethanol. It just has a higher octane, so I can run timing up. This generates higher cylinder pressures which get more power.
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 11:04:04 AM

Higher octane fuels produce more power in an engine because they allow more spark advance. Why some of us run alcohol in cars. Regular grade (89 octane or so) fuel will not develop more power with ethanol unless the octane rating is higher. It's just a matter of advance and cylinder pressure

Your horsepower can be made higher in a car with higher octane fuel. You cannot make more power with 89 octane gasoline than 89 octane gasahol. Just physics. If you were to buy 89 octane pure gas (no ethanol) and add 10% ethanol to it, you will get more power from an octane increase. Buying 89 octane gasahol means you are buying 87 octane gas with 10 percent ethanol most of the time. My mustang has been on the dyno many many times, and the difference between 108 octane av gas and 114 octane straight ethanol is about 3.3% on the rear wheels - higher octane allows you to get more power.

And there is nothing about density in your Tahoe Soylent. When your truck starts, the computer advances the spark until the knock sensors hit and then runs timing back a degree or so. Fuel pulse width in the injectors is controlled by your primary (before cat) oxygen sensor(s) - they just look to lean you out for fuel mileage. Unless you are actively programming your engines computer(s), you have no control over pulse width, the computer is just looking at the oxygen sensors to adjust mixture.

[Edited by: nru at 4/18/2015 11:07:10 AM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 9:22:39 AM

" I have more power in the car also."

That's your imagination getting the best of you. Ethanol will and does produce more horsepower, not less. Partly because of the higher octane and, mostly, because the fuel air mixture requires less space per pound of fuel with ethanol. That means at full throttle, you get more fuel which translates to more horsepower. That's why alcohols, including ethanol, are used as racing fuels.

As far as mileage, I've been driving a route between eastern Iowa and the Chicago suburbs for almost 40 years: E10 one way regular or premium gasoline the other for most of that time. When we drive the same speed, take the same coffee stop, and wind conditions are the same, I've never seen a measurable difference between regular gasoline and E10. E85 is even too close to call.

Needless to say, in the 13 years we have owned our 2002 Tahoe, it has had a concentration of ethanol that has approached 85%. No fuel system issues.
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hopewell2005
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 8:53:28 AM

true
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GuitarmanB4U
Rookie Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 5:54:47 AM

I am anti Ethanol, myself. It does harm the fuel system of you automobile. Mechanics and tuners and also automotive tech's have told me this. I also get better gas milage with non ethanol gas, which I call Pure Gas, then if I use the Corn Gas. I have more power in the car also. I only run Non Ethanol gas in mine and my wife's cars. It also saves me on mechanics bills in the future. But we all have our ideas and I'm glad that I again have this option and the state of Florida gave me back my option. Good luck on your decision with this subject.
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Alexi7
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2015 5:04:03 AM

Jayburt: Leno is an entertainer, hardly an authority on automotive engineering. And you're making the rest of us in NW Ohio look dim.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 9:39:58 AM

What's a "shrill"?
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sonbuule
Veteran Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 9:10:07 AM

nothing
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 4:36:48 AM

Just because he has been working on vehicles since he was young, and has owned and currently owned more than you or I will ever own, and has worked on them, he is a qualified source for knowledge about the effects (and damage) of ethanol. To say he's not is ludicrous and shows how desperate you shrills are to further your losing cause
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Alexi7
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 2:19:32 AM

Jay Leno, automotive engineer? Just because you collect cars doesn't mean you know anything about the engineering involved to produce one.
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2015 1:10:20 AM

"...hanging your hat on an a poorly edited op-ed by a comedian." LOL, thats all you can come back with
You mean Jay Leno the guy who has worked on vehicles since he was 17 yrs. old? The guy who owns over 280 vehicles and is known for being hands on with them to the point he has his own car show? What a reach! And thanks for showing exactly what I stated in that comment ;)

Poorly edited piece? By autoweek, one of the most respected automobile publications in existence.. Jays line in the subheader of the article sums up what this thread is about--"Can't we just get rid of ethanol?"
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davidc2015
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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2015 4:09:15 PM

hmmmm
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2015 10:05:31 AM

"None of your bs will change that..and really your just making yourself look intelligently challenged by trying to."

You make this assertion after hanging your hat on an a poorly edited op-ed by a comedian. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2015 5:23:52 AM

"check the bottom of your article" = "Published in the May 2008 issue of Popular Mechanics."

March 2015 Jay Leno authors an article with the big bright headline of, and I quote

Jay Leno hates ethanol no matter what bs spin you try to put on it
he shows as a car owner of over 280 vehicles, and a mechanic who works on his own vehicles, that it is garbage.
None of your bs will change that..and really your just making yourself look intelligently challenged by trying to.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2015 10:02:33 AM

"Check the bottom of your article.."

IL: "Unlike gasoline, ethanol burns 100 percent, so it leaves behind no nasty residue. Without any leftover gunk to clog these key components, E85-powered engines tend to operate smoother and require less maintenance. Now you can see why Indy Cars run on E100 and the American Le Mans Series runs on E85. Ethanol helps clean up racing without sacrificing any performance. So ends the sermon for this issue.

By Jay Leno"

From the 2015 Autoweek article: "Last week, I went to start up one of my Duesenbergs. When I pulled out of the spot where it had been parked for about a month, I saw a huge pool of gas. I looked at it while it was running and saw gas just pouring out. “OK,I’ve got to buy another fuel regulator.” I pulled it out and opened it up. The fiber diaphragm was eaten right through."

And next to the quote; a picture of a torn up rubber impeller. Frist, the impeller is not a "diaphram". Second, the type of damage pictured would be from turning the impeller dry, as in letting the car sit for months at a time. Third, gasoline is more damaging to most rubber materials than ethanol.

However, if you have doubts, fill your Dusenbergs with premium gasoline. Shouldn't be much of an issue for the rest of the several hundred million cars on US highways. Really, I don't see establishing a national fuel standard, just to accomodate Jay Leno's dusenbergs.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 4/14/2015 10:03:37 AM EST]
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Alexi7
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2015 4:20:19 AM

Got 23.88 mpg in our 2014 Chevy Equinox on the highway. E-85 was $1.679 for an even 7 cents/mile. My '03 Acura CL gets better mileage(26.87), but that's on E-15 priced at $2.239, or 8.3 cents/mile.
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Jayburt
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2015 1:21:30 AM

so you bring a 2008 article where Jay showed one can be done "Published in the May 2008 issue of Popular Mechanics." Check the bottom of your article..
but want to ignore a March 2015 article where he clearly states http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/jay-leno-hates-ethanol, and not only says it causes fires using E10, but SHOWS pictures of the actual parts being ruined by gasohol? Ok.. your obvious turn of his Real feelings of it 7 yrs. later will convince everyone....smh

Although I love OnsiteComputers's take on it ;)

[Edited by: Jayburt at 4/14/2015 1:22:49 AM EST]
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 10:17:21 PM

I love the Leno car - and you can aftermarket most newer cars for straight ethanol or E-85. My yellow mustang (not street legal) cost me less than $1500 to modify for straight alcohol several years ago. It would run E-85 as well, but I have never tried

Iron heads, block
Hard coated intake manifold and pistons
Bigger injectors 160 versus 96 lb jobs
Viton seals in fuel system (fuel pump was already good for alcohol)
New regulator (higher fuel pressure required)
Computer reprogrammed

You still can't run your non-flex fuel vehicle on ethanol or E-85, and you need to make sure you take care of seals and aluminum if you convert, but it's good fuel if you know what you're doing. It's burning food, but denying terrorists and Putin funding.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 9:09:29 PM

"Jay Leno is talking about being forced to use e10, no where does he say he would use that 85crap."

Jay Leno's E85 powered 2006 Corvette Z06
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OnsiteComputers
Rookie Author Arkansas

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 7:30:50 PM

I get 900 miles to a gallon of Smirnoff on my bike

[Edited by: OnsiteComputers at 4/13/2015 7:31:25 PM EST]
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barryo62
Rookie Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 3:40:44 PM

Phpearso what is making ear corn higher priced?
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moxxor54
Veteran Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 8:37:11 AM

Corn is not for fuel, waste gas, poor gas mileage !
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phpearso
All-Star Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 2:19:19 AM

making ear corn higher priced.
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Jayburt
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2015 2:04:47 AM

rumbleseat you need to check your reading comprehension, Jay Leno is talking about being forced to use e10, no where does he say he would use that 85crap. Gasoline didn't make parts fail in 6-8 months so they could start fires..again read the article, and don't miss the pictures where they show closeups of the parts that e10 eats away.
Ethanol does not reduce any of the oil we buy from foreign countries, since we are exporting oil currently, and egas takes more volume to get the same distance and power so we use more.
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barryo62
Rookie Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 1:38:45 PM

SoylentGrain has a very good point about buying foreign oil and the oil money going to fund terrorist that hate us and want to kill us.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 12:24:01 PM

"The problem with high ethanol content fuel is that most cars are not engineered for it."

So what? The use of E85 isn't forced on anybody! If your car isn't flex-fuel, and you don't want to try splas blending to see what level it will tolerate, you can ignore the E85 pump, it is as simple as that. My car isn't engineered for diesel, so I don't use it, but I don't worry about it. Just as the availability of diesel isn't a threat to me, the availability of E85 isn't a threat to you.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 4/12/2015 12:32:36 PM EST]
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 11:46:58 AM

The problem with high ethanol content fuel is that most cars are not engineered for it. The materials have been chosen to accommodate a gasoline fuel in the past, and are starting to be better for ethanol, but unless you purchase a flex fuel vehicle, most warranties are rendered invalid with use of E-85. This will change, but I run straight gasoline in my 1975 and 1961 vehicles - the others run on E-10 fine.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 11:31:22 AM

If one fills up an older vehicle with E85, without experimenting and carefully working up to what the vehicle can handle, whatever happens is his/her fault. Stupid is as stupid does.
"Its good for fires in your older vehicles,"
Gasoline has burned up a lot of vehicles.
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redhornet
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 11:23:12 AM

It makes America strong and it is cheap to buy $1.44
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nru
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 11:04:52 AM

Soylent -,they fund putin as well
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SoylentGrain
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 10:01:57 AM

"As one of Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devoted followers, he was known for his zealous orations and deep and virulent antisemitism, which led to his strongly supporting the extermination of the Jews when the Nazi leadership developed their "Final Solution""

Have you really thought of what your oil dollars are going towards? Iran, ISIS, and most of the other "states" that are motivated by extermination of Jews are funded by oil. When you fill your tank with ethanol, that money benefits US citizens and keeps funds out of the hands of muslim religious fanatics who are determined to exterminate Jews and US citizens.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 9:30:52 AM

"I believe that you don't understand what you are saying. "

Come on. you know hat he is talking about: repeating baseless lies.

Being terminally politically correct is much more offensive, to me, than referencing a socialist dictator's technique. Masking ignorance through political correctness is of no value to anyone.
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MikeCapeCoral
Champion Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2015 12:24:51 AM

I tried two tanks in my Flex Fuel vehicle. Very poor mileage.
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PhilnTX
All-Star Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2015 10:51:42 AM

"Goldseeker" Are you implying that people posting on this forum are like Goebbels?

As one of Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devoted followers, he was known for his zealous orations and deep and virulent antisemitism, which led to his strongly supporting the extermination of the Jews when the Nazi leadership developed their "Final Solution".

I believe that you don't understand what you are saying.
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