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BigHorne1

Champion Author
Missouri

Posts:3,796
Points:845,380
Joined:Jul 2012
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 2:56:08 PM

Start allowing more points to members, instead of the basic 975 a day or 1075 on Sundays with the weekly poll points.

This way the ones, that want to get ahead can
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2013 6:41:27 PM

TxJeans, thanks for the info -- I was a little concerned that I might have been the source of the confusion, myself, since I'd recently mentioned a past change in the system, in a different topic.

Regarding "more points" being better... Apparently it's a common misperception, in the world at large, that giving everybody twice as many tickets would double their chances of winning a random draw. I suppose that misperception affects GasBuddy members in the same proportion as the general population.
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TheJediCharles
Veteran Author Fort Worth

Posts:377
Points:66,285
Joined:Jul 2013
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 9:40:21 AM

"This way the ones, that want to get ahead can"

Does that mean you'll be supportive of game-changers in the future that make it easier for tomorrow's newbs to get more points than you, even though you haven't won the gas cards either?

[Edited by: TheJediCharles at 9/15/2013 9:41:51 AM EST]
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Retired-Coastie
Champion Author Arkansas

Posts:1,794
Points:617,150
Joined:Oct 2011
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 9:12:21 AM

I concur with the regulars on here. There are to many post for points threads that clog the system already. And once you make the mistake of posting to it you married to it for life. For those with something good to say we need a intelligent reply topics thread. To many mindless posts pb88, spoil the forum.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:7,406
Points:819,975
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 7:29:24 AM

KWZH - he didn't misunderstand, he was told wrong. Apparently another poster (mwg6275) told him "When I first joined there wasn't a limit as to how many points one could get for posting prices. I sometimes would post enough to get over 2,000 in one day." (from his WB)

But, regardless, it is a moot point.
1. He hasn't been getting all the points he could with the current system.
2. IF they were to make a point change, it would be global and the PTB would not likely "recalculate" historical points - so it would affect everyone the SAME going FORWARD.
3. The points are not the reason to be posting prices. The reason is to help each other find the best gas prices.
4. It is not likely to happen based on past responses from the Gas Buddy Mods/Organization.

[Edited by: TxJeans at 9/15/2013 7:30:18 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 6:43:03 AM

All members have the same opportunity to earn points. The main purpose of this site is to post vehicle fuel prices so others can save money.

If you are so concerned about earning points, pb88, why have you only earned 10% of the points that are available to you?
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 11:50:43 PM

pb88, I think you misunderstood. The point *system* has had slight changes in the past, but the daily *total* has always been what it is now, or very close to it.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:7,406
Points:819,975
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 5:43:15 PM

Seriously pb88, this site is more about helping each other with finding gas for our vehicles at the best price available. The points are rather meaningless in the big scheme of things.

The points are only worth spending on "LOTTO" tickets for the gas card drawing. The math says that the chance of winning is not worth sweating over how many points someone might have earned a long time ago, or yesterday.

Could you explain how changing the point system would make it more fair for new members? ALL members would have access to the same new points (assuming the unlikelihood that they did change the point system. The POINTS are the same for everyone. Are you suggesting that IF there was a different point system in the past, that every current member should have their historical points recalculated retrospectively?
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maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:21,995
Points:1,415,400
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 5:22:38 PM

pb88 if points are such a concern why have you left so many on the table? It seems that your call to change the point system is to make up for leaving the point currently available on the table.

I agree with others that there is no need to change the point system.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 5:03:08 PM

As long as I have been a members, 975/1075 per day is the max. The only other points that can be earned is the 100 you get when you join and the max of 1,200 for referring friends.
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pb88
Sophomore Author Virginia

Posts:165
Points:19,270
Joined:Jul 2013
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 4:38:08 PM

it was suggested to me by another member who has a lot of points, there used to be another point system where you can get a lot more points then you can today. so all I am suggesting that if there used to be a system that allowed members to get more points it's not fair to new members if they aren't under the same system!!
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Byte_Doctor
Champion Author Akron

Posts:6,690
Points:1,323,090
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 9:32:45 AM

pb88 wrote "to be fair to the new members they need to go back to the old way system was where you can get more than 975 points per day based on how many stations that you reported in other things that you did!!! that's why there are people that have in the millions of points because they used to be able to get more points."

I believe you are mistaken. Folks with millions of points have been posting for years and (mostly) maxing out their daily point totals of 975 (or 1075 when a new poll is posted). To the best of my knowledge, you have never been able to get more points than that, except of course for the signing bonus and tell a friend points.

And yes, this thread should be locked.

[Edited by: Byte_Doctor at 9/14/2013 9:33:55 AM EST]
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Retired-Coastie
Champion Author Arkansas

Posts:1,794
Points:617,150
Joined:Oct 2011
Message Posted: Sep 14, 2013 8:50:05 AM

pb88; This is a dead thread. If the people who have been earning 975 and 1075 points daily for years, then why should someone who just joined rocket to the top with a new points system? There is already enough abuse without encouraging more. Time to lock this topic.
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pb88
Sophomore Author Virginia

Posts:165
Points:19,270
Joined:Jul 2013
Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 12:52:47 AM

to be fair to the new members they need to go back to the old way system was where you can get more than 975 points per day based on how many stations that you reported in other things that you did!!! that's why there are people that have in the millions of points because they used to be able to get more points. Can not get free points no one should report false stations if you only get what points you are on every single station every single thing you do. For people out on the road all day this is beneficial to GasBuddy & every single member that is part of our system and also to generate new members the more they report daily to the system the better everyone is so reward more points!! People doing more work that's the way the system works & is verifiable in that if they cheat 3 times then they are kicked off the system and they're done with & and loose everthing. If they want to come back on the system by another email but they have to start all over again, if they're going to cheat 3 times everything is lost again!!!
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 31, 2013 8:42:04 AM

Thanks Don. I don't think there is a need to change the points system.
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2013 4:36:13 PM

Hi BigHorne1, scoutmaster, Gas_Buddy, krazkar,

There are no immediate plans to change the how the point system operates at this time.

-Don
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,840
Points:3,637,800
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 7:19:16 PM

krazkar:

"Has the point system changed over the years? If not, don't change it."

It's not that things shouldn't be changed just because they haven't changed "over the years". Some things or features that have been in place for years may benefit with a change. In this case, however, there's no reason to make the change. Or, at best, there's no compelling reason offered why a change would improve the website, especially in the original post.
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krazkar
Champion Author Calgary

Posts:2,883
Points:877,780
Joined:May 2012
Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 5:34:08 PM

Has the point system changed over the years? If not, don't change it.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 8:27:22 AM

Yup. borsht's posts belong in this topic.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Aug 24, 2013 1:43:37 AM

borsht: Use the map view, and select "all stations". But I agree with Scrapheap that you posted this to the wrong topic.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:17,385
Points:2,959,940
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Aug 23, 2013 2:01:23 PM

borsht - What does that have to do with points improvement?
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

Posts:3,304
Points:784,395
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Aug 23, 2013 1:36:18 PM

It appears that if a station doesn't get updated frequently enough, it disappears from the list.
Recently I was in Redding California. And the low price stations on the west side were not listed.
I couldn't bring them up on my map view either.
I mark them in my GPS so when I go thru Redding I can find them again.
It would be great if a station that has a history of low prices got to stay on the list for a few weeks.

[Edited by: borsht at 8/23/2013 1:37:44 PM EST]
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:39:52 PM

Retired-Coastie raises a valid issue (perhaps accidentally). It used to be that you needed to spot five *stations* to get your points for the day. Then when support for multiple fuel types was added, it became possible to get 3/5 or 4/5 of your price-posting points at a single station. If the change at that time had instead been to either reduce the value of each price post (leaving the limit at 750), or keep regular gasoline at 150 and give no points for midgrade or premium or diesel, then that would also have been arguably consistent with the prior system -- and no less "fair" that what was actually done.
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Jawbonz
Sophomore Author Billings

Posts:101
Points:1,010,320
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 7:28:18 PM

OK, I stand totally corrected then. Thanks for the clarificiation on how the points work in relation to drawings, etc. That's very good information.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 1:01:44 PM

I "get ahead" by posting prices that help others find the best price available.
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rspiano
Champion Author Tucson

Posts:11,448
Points:2,405,005
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:00:19 PM

Do not mess with the current point system. One day's worth of points earned today (975/1075) should be worth the same as one day's worth earned 5 years ago, or 10 years ago.

You "get ahead" by being active on the site, posting gas prices, clicking on news links, etc. Judging from your points total and join date, you seem to have been doing a great job. I do fairly well myself, though at my current point total, even earning maximum points may bump me up only 1 or 2 spots, if that, on the "overall rank" per day. I probably never will be even in the top 1,000. Many of the people above me get their maximum points, too. Should they "lose rank" because I feel that I want to get more points? Some of them have been on GasBuddy for over 10 years. I've only been on for 5. Unless they stop posting, and I keep on going strong, I will never pass them. Keep plugging along, and you'll see your stats improve.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:7,406
Points:819,975
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 7:28:17 AM

Retired-Coastie - nope, that would cause more false price posting. Those that CARE about the site post prices beyond the point earning when they actually see and can report them. Upping the number of prices to get your posts would 1) negatively impact those that live in rural areas where there may be only a few stations on their daily commute and not all stations post all grades (around me - most only post REG or REG & Diesel). The points are fine. The real problem is the APPS awards - some of which entice those less honorable to "cheat".
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Retired-Coastie
Champion Author Arkansas

Posts:1,794
Points:617,150
Joined:Oct 2011
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2013 12:00:34 AM

I say lower the number of points earned for each price posted to say 50 or 75. That way a few more stations get their prices posted before the 750 max is reached.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 11:34:52 PM

Regarding the issue in the last three posts -- points that are unspent are listed separately under the name "Point Balance". See also FAQ #28.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 4:26:38 PM

"Those who have been around for YEARS before us, should have much higher point totals, if they don't use them for drawings."

Nope. The points you see under each member are the points they have earned since they joined.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,840
Points:3,637,800
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 1:03:36 PM

Jawbonz
"Those who have been around for YEARS before us, should have much higher point totals, if they don't use them for drawings."

Your points total doesn't change even if you do use points for the weekly drawings. Your points total is the total amount of points you've earned during your membership. What does change is how many points you have remaining, or available for use in future drawings. The total points earned can be viewed by other members; the points remaining/available for use in future drawings is for the member's information.
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Jawbonz
Sophomore Author Billings

Posts:101
Points:1,010,320
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 12:36:00 PM

I've thought about this as well in the past, but when it comes down to it, why don't we all adhere to the same criteria? Those who have been around for YEARS before us, should have much higher point totals, if they don't use them for drawings. My coming along, for example, and wanting to get up to 3 million points or so, sooner, because I want to improve my rankings would be unfair, and make me more or less the A-Rod of GB.com.

I'll accumulate my points just like everyone else, and either take advantage of all points opportunities, or not. That's my choice.

Then again, I'm not posting prices with the primary goal of ranking. While I appreciate seeing my rank climb, I'm posting for the benefit of others to see updated fuel prices. That's the point of this site anyway, is it not?
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:7,406
Points:819,975
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 6:48:25 AM

Naw, I really don't think it would do much but cause a lot of programming followed by a lot of complaints from both groups. And, I doubt that CK has "always" thought this because he has never held back on any suggestions of his own or putting anything on his wiki list.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Aug 21, 2013 12:30:31 AM

Hm. It's actually not absurd, and it could help to separate those who want big numbers from those who are here to earn honest points and/or help each other. It would probably break down from people in the former class doing it in rapid-fire mode to try to stay on top.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 9:58:47 PM

I sure hope that was another one of your poor attempts at humor, CampKohler. If not, that is probably the most inane suggestion I have ever heard. This isn't "Who's Line Is It Anyway".
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,840
Points:3,637,800
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 7:22:58 PM

Unfortunately, some newer members may think that the following:

"I always thought that if someone wanted more points, they should be given to them. For example, by request, anyone could receive 1,000,000 additional (non-prize-drawing) points, but there would be an asterisk next to their nickname from that time on and everyone would know how they got them."

is a serious suggestion, especially coming from a member who (himself) is a respected senior member who's made multiple suggestions on a variety of issues.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,920
Points:2,050,625
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Aug 20, 2013 6:20:27 PM

This suggestion has been added to the Suggestion Tracking List as a new topic on an existing subject.

I always thought that if someone wanted more points, they should be given to them. For example, by request, anyone could receive 1,000,000 additional (non-prize-drawing) points, but there would be an asterisk next to their nickname from that time on and everyone would know how they got them.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 6:21:11 AM

WOW! How did I miss that! Sorry! BigHorne1 has left about 3,000 points on the table! Man. I gotta get new glasses~
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:23,246
Points:4,280,305
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Aug 18, 2013 4:37:18 AM

Gas_Buddy: I've seen something similar in one of the sweepstakes -- possibly PCH, but not sure -- in which, after you've submitted your entry, they give you (and everyone else) another free entry, with wording along the lines of "twice as many chances to win!"

People in general are bad at math.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,840
Points:3,637,800
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 8:38:00 PM

No, BigHorne1 has not left that much on the table. He's only been a member for a year and 23 days, meaning that the most points he could have earned is 378,000 daily points and 5,600 weekly poll points plus 1,200 points for referrals. Totalled, that's only 2,000 points less than he currently has.

I disagree with BigHorne1's suggestion, but he hasn't left enough points on the table that we can say to him "you haven't earned what's already available, why ask for more?"
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MARIOWERX
Champion Author Vancouver

Posts:18,634
Points:2,244,390
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 8:25:45 PM

Must be new math in Pittsburgh, in a little more than a year you can earn more than 3 million points? What am I doing wrong?
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:97,219
Points:3,856,015
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 8:00:46 PM

BigHorne1 has left roughly 3,000,000 points on the table.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,840
Points:3,637,800
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 7:06:49 PM

BigHorne1:

Are you suggesting that each of the points earning activities (gas price posting, message posting, reading news articles, voting in the weekly polls) should receive more points than they current earn, or are you suggesting that there be more ways to earn points?

If it's the former, if you're saying you should receive, for example, 250 points instead of 150 for posting a gas price, or you should receive, for example, 100 points instead of the 20 for each message post, all (or most) members would all receive the increased points per each action just as you would, meaning that you really wouldn't be getting ahead of anyone except those no longer participating (or rarely participating). And if it's the latter, that there are more ways to earn points (for example, you get points for updating the Master Station List or for posting locations where a motorist can "fill-up" or "re-charge" an electric vehicle, wouldn't other members also be doing the same thing to earn points, meaning that you're not getting ahead, all you're doing is staying even with the other members doing the same things for points.

Sorry, but maybe you can explain your suggestion a little differently.

Side story, if you're suggesting that there be more points for doing the same activities as you now get points for:

A local radio station that sells items locally used to give 10 "tickets" to each of the first 10 callers during the 6 o'clock show. That means each person had a 10 in 100 (total tickets) chance of winning. The station then did a drawing during the midnight show and the single winner would get a $25 gift certificate to use on any product sold by the station. People, based on callers' comments, thought that they didn't have much of a chance in winning, so the station changed the drawing. They now announce that each of the first 10 callers will now receive 250 "tickets" (in the words of one of the announcers, "How about that! You now get more than twice an many chances as you did before" - I'm not going to comment on his math skills, but he says it almost every show.) Callers now comment about how great the new drawing is, about how many chances they now have than they had before. Wait a second; before they had 10 chances in 100 (10 tickets to each of 10 callers); now they have 250 chances out of 2,500 (250 tickets to each of 10 callers); 250 out of 2,500 is the same as 25 out of 250, or (further reduced) 1 out of 10, just as they had before. The difference is almost every caller has said great things about having more chances than before, apparently never understanding the odds didn't change. If all you're suggesting is that everyone now get more points for doing the same things they get now get points for, everyone will move up just as fast as you will, meaning you won't get ahead of anyone any quicker than you are now. Except you'll get ahead of those no longer participating or who rarely participate just a little faster?

Is that what you're asking to do?
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:7,406
Points:819,975
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 3:38:20 PM

Why? - no different than grade inflation.

There are enough points. I believe they chose a balance so that those in more rural areas have as much chance at getting full points as those in urban areas.

It isn't about the points. It is about providing and finding accurate price postings. You CAN continue to post prices beyond your 5 a day.
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maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:21,995
Points:1,415,400
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Aug 17, 2013 3:37:12 PM

"This way the ones, that want to get ahead can".

All have the same opportunity for the same points, but many leave a lot of points on the table and complain about it later. No reason to allow more points. The members that want to get ahead are ahead.

[Edited by: maxstar at 8/17/2013 3:38:55 PM EST]
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