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Author Topic: Display abnormal station status on all full-site price displays. Back to Topics
CampKohler

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Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2013 5:17:20 PM

Currently, if one looks at a station balloon on the Map Gas Prices map, any abnormal station status (Closed - Temporarily, etc.) is displayed prominently. It is unlikely that somebody will enter a price there without seeing the status.

There should be a similar display of abnormal status in the other price displays—the home page price lists, search results and in FSLs.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 10:01:03 PM

CK "Meanwhile, I believe displaying the status in the full site price lists and FSL would be something that could be done immediately, with little coding effort and without eating up more screen real estate. "
I don't think it is likely it could be done with little effort just like the durable flag apparently can't be done with little effort.

And, I suspect they really are not interested in band-aids right now because they seem to finally be working on some bigger solutions.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:57:40 PM

"TX: Yes, I agree, it would be much better to interlock full-site price reporting with the MSL records. However, I doubt there is any member who has seen any signs that this might happen in the foreseeable future."

I think I posted something in another topic that indicated some improvement in this area. And this isn't something that happens overnight. To get it right takes coding, testing then more coding and more testing. I would rather wait and let them get it right.

What we don't need is a temporary fix that will not really fix anything.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2013 9:12:44 PM

TX: Yes, I agree, it would be much better to interlock full-site price reporting with the MSL records. However, I doubt there is any member who has seen any signs that this might happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, I believe displaying the status in the full site price lists and FSL would be something that could be done immediately, with little coding effort and without eating up more screen real estate.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2013 11:03:46 AM

"(can you do this from the mobile site?)"

Sure can. Is a link that reads "Visit the full site."
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 11:17:39 AM

Maybe we need a pop up from the APPS directing them to bridge out to the full site (can you do this from the mobile site?) would help direct APP users to the broader opportunities also available on the website.

They seem to find there way here periodically to complain that the APP is NOT the full website, and are told WHY it is not the full website.

I think in the info area it would be great to include links out to the m.site and the full website. I don't know if they are there currently, but I don't think so (dead Smart Phone - never had Feature Phones die).

Also the OP by CK it sounded like he wanted an abnormal status on the home page of the website. I think tying to MSL and not showing when not available for price posting (closed or temp closed, etc.) would be better than showing a station that is not available for posting taking up space on the board.



[Edited by: TxJeans at 8/11/2013 11:21:50 AM EST]
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Byte_Doctor
Champion Author Akron

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 8:48:32 AM

"I thought Internet-capable personal computers were fairly ubiquitous these days. People aren't discarding them simply because they now have a smart phone, are they?"

Not so much discarding as not realizing the app has a fully-functional website behind it with even more capabilities. Also, I've seen cases where friends opted to not replace a failed traditional PC because they could do everything they wanted to do on a phone and/or tablet. Of course, the tablet would give them (almost) full Internet capabilities so that certainly wouldn't limit them in this case.

(Almost because Flash doesn't work on most mobile OSs. YMMV)
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2013 3:42:53 AM

If there's an area that is covered exclusively by members who use the phone app and can't get to the main site, then I suppose it's possible that the undesirable situation (inability to post a price for a fuel that is, in fact, sold at the station) would persist for longer than we'd like. If one of those members eventually complains about the situation, to someone who's in a position to do something about it, then it'll still get fixed. I'm not overly concerned with this corner case.

I thought Internet-capable personal computers were fairly ubiquitous these days. People aren't discarding them simply because they now have a smart phone, are they?
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 9:18:17 PM

"Then I would wrap it in aluminum foil so the aliens can't get at it."

Don't ever quit your day job and go into stand-up comedy, CampKohler. Your sense of humor is horrid.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 2:37:07 PM

CampKohler

The following makes sense (regardless of whether or not I agree with it):

:"SM: Better a "temporary fix" than none at all. I would change the code if I had access to it. I would check the code behind the MGP map and then insert it in the other price displays."

That, at least, provides some substance if not reasoning.

But the following: "Then I would wrap it in aluminum foil so the aliens can't get at it." makes the whole post look inane and as if the first part was really "just joking...ha ha."

Sorry, but maybe straight posts, which you've intelligently done in the past, would carry more weight in convincing others of your point of view or your suggestion. Just me, and I' saying that as one who has posted "poor" or "misunderstood" humor.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 2:29:14 PM

"For those of you just dying to know where the Band-aid reference came from, look at the post of Aug 8, 2013 7:23:52 PM."

In this topic?

Temporary fixes on web sites are not worth the time and effort.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 2:07:58 PM

For those of you just dying to know where the Band-aid reference came from, look at the post of Aug 8, 2013 7:23:52 PM.

SM: Better a "temporary fix" than none at all. I would change the code if I had access to it. I would check the code behind the MGP map and then insert it in the other price displays. Then I would wrap it in aluminum foil so the aliens can't get at it.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 8:09:36 AM

I would rather have a few missing prices vs a few bogus prices. One thing we don't need is a temporary fix.

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 8/10/2013 8:10:34 AM EST]
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 8:00:31 AM

As it stands now, you can't report prices for a temporarily closed station using the mobile site. You can't report prices for a temporarily closed station using the app and stations near me. You can eport prices for a temporarily closed station using the app and an FSL on the android platform.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 6:49:28 AM

Maybe if the folks that can't post from the app for a station from the APP will learn that there is more to GasBuddy than the APP alone. Maybe the pop up should direct them to the mobile site or the full website. Most SMART phones are capable of running both.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 6:03:08 AM

There are some members who use their phones exclusively, we have known that for some time.

There is a reason GB is catering to them with their own silly awards.

There is also a fairly high percentage of members in some areas who have never contributed a thing to the MSL.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2013 2:26:07 AM

If we allow members to post prices for a station that's closed, then we get bogus prices. This is an ongoing problem, for each station.

if we forbid members from doing so, then we get missing prices, but only until someone (not necessarily the same member) makes the appropriate change in the MSL. This is a temporary problem, for each station.

I think that eliminating an ongoing problem at the cost of introducing a temporary problem is a win.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 10:44:03 PM

"If we block posting of prices for a station marked as temporarily closed, we block the ability of a member using his phone to post a price if the station has now re-opened."

The price can always be notated and when this member gets home they can go to the MSL and change the status then post the price.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 9:38:57 PM

I am not sure how many times I have said this, but it has to be north of a dozen.
If we block posting of prices for a station marked as temporarily closed, we block the ability of a member using his phone to post a price if the station has now re-opened. Until such time as there is a pop-up saying "station is temporarily closed - change status to open?" that allows a one-click update from a mobile app, such a block could mean no price posts for some stations from some members who don't bother to go home to change the MSL from their computer.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 9:11:36 PM

No, it is not necessarily an easy fix. Just because they do it on the MGP map doesn't mean the same coding works elsewhere as the underlying structure may be different and have different dependencies.

And, it is NOT close to fitting the band-aid/emergency room analogy.

And, yes, having the same station on 10 different FSL does possibly open it to abuse by some. You might have 2 lists and post the price in both lists and gain your points by multiple posting. Yes, you could do it from one list as well, but you can't claim "accident" of having posted it twice from two different routes on your fsl.

Ultimately, tying in the station data more closely to the MSL probably wouldn't hurt such that when the station is deleted/closed permanently, it automatically disappears from your FSL and when temporarily closed it is made "inactive" (not accepting entry) while marked closed in the MSL.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 8:26:19 PM

I agree with kwzh that it's not a quick or easy fix; from what little I know of computing and programming, it would be serious undertaking across multiple devices.

Second, I'm sorry but I don't understand the band aid, emergency room, bleeding analogy. Can you explain it to me, perhaps as a white board message so as not to take up time and space in this thread.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 4:15:09 PM

"SM: There's nothing wrong with Band-aids until you can get to the ER, especially if you're bleeding."

This isn't a medical situation and that analogy stinks.

"kwzh: I think is would be easy. First of all, they already do this on the MGP map, so they know how. Secondly, it is just displaying a value; no logic is needed."

If you think it's easy, CampKohler, how about you write the code and test it out!
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 3:34:50 PM

kwzh: I think is would be easy. First of all, they already do this on the MGP map, so they know how. Secondly, it is just displaying a value; no logic is needed.

SM: There's nothing wrong with Band-aids until you can get to the ER, especially if you're bleeding.

TX: This is off topic, but nevertheless.... Let's say you had the same station on ten different FSLs. It would be silly to do so, but what harm would result from reporting the same station ten times if the T.S. and prices were correct? None whatsoever. How could that lead to abuse any more than any other part of the system? I really don't think there is anything to worry about.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 7:15:01 AM

It's not a quick fix and it isn't even a fix. It's the same as the little Dutch boy sticking his fingers in the dyke!
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TxJeans
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 6:53:03 AM

I agree with kwzh it likely isn't a quick fix.

I also think that a temporarily closed station should not clutter the price board in any view and for the FSL, it should probably be "dimmed" and un-editable.
For permanently closed, they should disappear from the FSL as well.

For changes to the MSL - they should ideally auto populate to the FSLs (When you put something to a FSL, it should pull from the MSL and automatically update when the MSL is changed) This would even be a good sanity check because if you see something on your FSL has changed incorrectly, you then know to correct it and could watch our for incorrect updates to the MSL.

And, as much as I see where CK was going with his "route" lists, I think it is not a good idea to be able to include the same station to multiple FSL as it could lead to accidental or intentional abuse of multi-reporting the same price from multiple lists.
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kwzh
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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 11:38:10 PM

I disagree with scoutmaster's logic, but also with CampKohler's assumption. I bet it would *not* be quick and easy to do.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 10:23:52 PM

Why does an abnormal status need to be displayed? We don't need more band-aids!
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2013 6:55:08 PM

I don't think anyone disagrees that interlocking the MSL with price reporting would be the best approach. However, until that day arrives (and should we be still alive to see it), displaying abnormal status would be quick and easy to do.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 6:26:03 AM

"Other changes to a station in the MSL such as features, open/closed, grades of gas do not seem to affect the 'matched' status."

I have a closed station in my MSL that is listed as not matched. If the address changes, it should be listed as changed.
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GoGoGoodyear
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2013 12:06:03 AM


It's been my experience that a station in the FSL remains 'matched' unless the brand or address is changed in the MSL, or an edit is made in the FSL such that the station info no longer matches the MSL. Other changes to a station in the MSL such as features, open/closed, grades of gas do not seem to affect the 'matched' status.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 3, 2013 8:11:18 AM

Totally agree on the MSL integration TxJeans. No one should be able to post any price for a closed/deleted station.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 8:04:23 PM

@ Scrapheap "When I was testing this and changed a station to temorarily closed, the station remained as "Matched" in my FSL. There was no indication that anything had changed with the station."

That was exactly what I was saying - when changed status it did not make a noticeable change on my FSL.

@ Scoutmaster "Well, TxJeans, I have a closed station on my FSL that is "Not Matched" and there is no match to be found for it."

I didn't quickly locate a permanently closed station to test w/ my FSL - but the TEMP closed showed as matched.

It still boils down to the fact that they need to better integrate the MSL with the Website and the APPs.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 2:00:29 PM

TxJeans wrote > the point was also made that if someone has a station on the FSL and someone else marks it as "closed" or "temporarily closed" they can still post prices from their FSL and the FSL doesn't give any indication of the to quote CK "abnormal status" <RE>.

When I was testing this and changed a station to temorarily closed, the station remained as "Matched" in my FSL. There was no indication that anything had changed with the station.

TxJeans wrote > That said, for the "temporarily closed" station that was being reported while closed in my area, once I changed it to "temporarily closed" the invalid price posts pretty much stopped. It might have been a coincidence because enough reports of the abusers made it through to the MODS. I really don't know.

Changing the station to temporarily closed reduced the number of methods people could use to report prices. They could not report prices using the app and stations near me. They could not report prices using the mobile site. If they tried to use the maps on the full site, there would have been a warning. The only ways to report the prices would have been from an FSL or Report a Price on the full site. I'm not convinced that is how most people post anylonger.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 2, 2013 11:11:20 AM

Well, TxJeans, I have a closed station on my FSL that is "Not Matched" and there is no match to be found for it. I can post a price for it but by being "Not Matched" with no match possible, that would indicate it is closed. I would say that is normal, not abnormal.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 9:59:17 PM

SM - the point was also made that if someone has a station on the FSL and someone else marks it as "closed" or "temporarily closed" they can still post prices from their FSL and the FSL doesn't give any indication of the to quote CK "abnormal status" <RE>.
.
It all comes back to what good is the MSL if it isn't tied to anything...
.
That said, for the "temporarily closed" station that was being reported while closed in my area, once I changed it to "temporarily closed" the invalid price posts pretty much stopped. It might have been a coincidence because enough reports of the abusers made it through to the MODS. I really don't know.
.
All we can do is hope that the stuff mentioned by the PTB that is in the works actually "works" and is deployed in the NEAR future.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 6:40:50 PM

That would be a reason. But why not wait until it opens?
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 3:23:53 PM

There might be if you expect the station to reopen in some reasonable time frame and want to have it in your list.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2013 5:11:16 AM

"Why would you add a closed station to your MSL?"

That should read

Why would you add a closed station to your FSL?
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 5:11:07 PM

Why would you add a closed station to your MSL? There is no reason to do this!
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CampKohler
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 4:21:02 PM

SM: What's the matter with only one? Logically, if one can be a problem, then any number could be.

>> "...if a station on your FSL is closed, it will not be matched and there will not be a match for it so it will stay unmatched." I must disagree. When I added the subject station to my FSL and it was and is closed and it matched.

On the theory that you might be right in that adding an already-closed station is not the same as having a already-added station go from open to closed status, I added an out-on-the-fringe-of-the-site's-territory open station (likely to have little activity) to my FSL and then temporarily changed its status to temporarily closed. The MGP map reflected the change in status instantly, but THERE WAS NO NOT-MATCHED CONDITION in the refreshed FSL entry. The conclusion I draw is that there is NO situation in which a change of status to temporarily closed will cause a not-matched condition in an FSL. If your testing disagrees, then our two sites don't operate on the same logic, which I think would be highly unlikely, because it is obvious that all the sites are cookie-cuttered, logic-wise.

Scrap: Asking a member trying to report a closed station if the status should be changed would be providing another method of entering the MSL edit process, a back door if you will. I suspect that GBO* has the castle doors arranged as they want them (to keep out newbies, etc.) and that they would not wish to provide another door.

The purpose of this suggestion was to provide a quick and easy way to indicate to an FSL user that a station's status was closed. Not only would this inhibit reporting via the FSL, it would remind members that a local station should be monitored for the time when the status should be returned to open. As I stated before, interlocking things as GB* suggestion would be preferable, but it would also be far more complicated and more likely (absolutely certain?) to not be implemented. Because GBO already has a mechanism to display the status in MGP map station balloons, it is not a stretch to think that it would be a minor chore to add a similar indicator to price displays and FSLs. Interlocking would be a great task that would have to be rigorously tested to make sure nothing went wrong; adding an indicator would not have to be so rigorously tested, because, the worse that could happen is that there would be no indicator (the current situation).

----
*For purposes of differentiation,
GBO = GasBuddy Organization
GB = GB, the member.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 9:48:48 AM

This is certainly an issue worthy of discussion.

I did some testing by marking a station as temporarily closed, trying to report it and trying to see prices for it using the full site, android app and mobile site.

Using the full site, you can report the price using the Report a Price feature, using a FSL or using the map. Only while using the map is there any indication that the station is closed. One disconcerting issue is that using the Report a Price feature, the station comes up as one of the suggested station addresses. If you can report the price using the full site or app, the prices will appear on the map and on area searches on the full site.

Using the app, the station does not appear on stations near me. You can however see prices for it and report prices for it using the FSL.

Mobile site - there are no means of seeing the station or reporting the station if it is marked temporarily closed.

I agree with Gas_Buddy that a pop-up window stating that the station is marked as temporarily closed would be the preferred solution. Perhaps it should should ask you if you are sure that the station is open and if you say yes, the status of the station would change and the prices would be accepted.

Using more visual indicators on the home page to indicate a station status sounds more confusing and cluttered to me.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 7/31/2013 9:49:22 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 8:21:57 AM

I just tested posting a closed station from my FSL. The price showed up on the main price board for Pittsburgh. This should not happen. No price should be able to be posted for any station in any form of closed or deleted.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 7:54:21 AM

Hmm, I never checked the mechanics, but when the SHELL near me was being remodeled and was closed but had people reporting prices, I changed it in the MSL to temporarily closed. The errant price reports seemed to stop. Again with another station that closed but had it's price board up.

I don't remember what showed in my FSL (only website at that time) but I don't think I was able to post via my FSL - but not sure I tested it. Regardless, the errant pricing seemed to stop once the change was made.

When I just now added a temp closed to my FSL showed no comments and matched. A duplicate added showed no comments and was able to be added even though closed. It seems deleted stations should not be able to be added to the FSL while marked closed. Same with a "closed permanently" or "deleted" (whatever reason).

I did not try to add prices to these from FSL.

[Edited by: TxJeans at 7/31/2013 7:55:10 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2013 7:04:26 AM

One?? One closed station price posted prompted this?

"Not matched would only apply to a data item that is different in the FSL from that in the MSL, but you can't edit status in the FSL, so there is no way for a non-match to exist. That's my theory."

Yes not matched would apply where your FSL is different from the MSL. And if a station on your FSL is closed, it will not be matched and there will not be a match for it so it will stay unmatched. I have one on my FSL exactly like this. Theory disproved.

Adding closed stations to the price list? Why?

I have made the suggestion that a station in any form of closed/deleted could not have a price posted to it. So far, this hasn't been implemented.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2013 10:31:54 PM

SM: One. Since it was suspiciously the lowest price on my site, I had to go there to find out what was going on. Now even though I have changed the status, members may still report it, users will still see the price in the list and the station shows as matched in my FSL. (Not matched would only apply to a data item that is different in the FSL from that in the MSL, but you can't edit status in the FSL, so there is no way for a non-match to exist. That's my theory.)

GB: I don't know if closed stations are blocked from the lists. (I should have checked the station after I changed the status to closed, but I didn't.) Let's say they aren't. Displaying the status will prevent users from accepting any old price remaining on the station's signs as real. (One would have to raise the question separately whether or not blocking a closed station from one's FSL is a good idea; one might want it to remain visible in order to keep and eye on it, e.g. to see if any prices are being reported.)

Blocking price reporting of closed stations would indeed be the best solution (just as blocking reporting of unavailable fuels would be), but that would probably take more work than simply displaying the status. I don't mean to imply that the work would not be worth it, but that, as things go, it would be much more unlikely to get done. Maybe you know somebody with pull...
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2013 8:20:48 PM

Closed stations show up in your FSL ad unmatched.

How many closed stations have you seen prices posted for, CampKohler?

I'm wondering what prompted this topic?
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Jul 30, 2013 8:09:46 PM

You're suggesting, among other things, that the home page price lists include stations that aren't open? Wouldn't that take up space and (however unlikely) be one more place for others to post false prices?
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Just wondering, but I assume that the Members Favorite Stations list of members have different identification that the Members Favorite Stations list of other members (despite the desirability of a single identification for each/every station; i.e., no duplicate entries). Wouldn't it be difficult to ensure that everyone's Members Favorite Stations list is updated to indicate "abnormal status"?

It would seem to me, as a quick thought, that if the Master Station List is modified to indicate that an octane or fuel type isn't available (but that the status could be changed if/when the station changes fuel availability) that if a member tried to post for an "abnormal" station, that a pop-up indicates (something to the effect) "This station is temporarily closed" until such time as the Master Station List is updated. I think that would be better than adding more to the current screen. But that's just a quick thought, and open for discussion.
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