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Author Topic: Mobile app: Single-button price set dupe method Back to Topics
CampKohler

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Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 3:40:05 PM

It has been suggested before that there should be an easy method for refreshing prices at a station if they had not changed. This suggestion is in that vein.

Currently, when the Submit button is pushed, if no prices have been entered, nothing happens. I suggest that in that situation, all current prices be copied to the price entry fields. Then a second press of Submit will enter them. There should be a short delay to prevent an accidental double pressing from reporting.

(This is for iPhone. Impact on other phones not known. Please discuss.)

[Edited by: CampKohler at 4/7/2013 3:47:26 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 6:39:45 AM

Well, CampKohler, if you would have said that initially there wouldn't have been a need to ask the question. Thanks for clearing that up.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 3:35:52 PM

By "Well, why not" I meant why not go along with your request? (Sometimes you are too half-emptyish.)
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 3:25:57 AM

Even the short "[added to STL]" would be sufficient, in my opinion, with the text "STL" being a link that could be clicked by someone not familiar with it. (A link to the STL itself would be adequate, or it could be a link to the forum topic that announced and expanded on it.)
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 2:27:47 PM

Well why not what CampKohler? Why not be consistent? Why not let everyone know you have added your suggestions to your wiki? Please elaborate.

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 4/16/2013 2:29:05 PM EST]
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 16, 2013 1:51:18 PM

Well, why not?
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 11:58:00 AM

I agree with kwzh's most recent post, the only thing different being I would spell out STL for the benefit of new/newer members to the thread that might not be familiar with the abbreviation.

To me, posting the "This has been added..." to CampKohler started "Suggest..." threads is that he's not informing (or not informing) those of us that take part regularly in the "Suggest..." and "Talk Back..." categories and assume his suggestion has been added to the list, it's being informationi for and consistent for the benefit of the non-regulars and the new participants who might not see or assume he's done that.

Again; I agree with kwzh.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 6:17:37 AM

All CampKohler needs to do is what he does for everything else he adds to his wiki - post it has been added. Viola! Consistency!
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 12:04:50 AM

I think a reasonable compromise would be to just include "[added to STL]" as the last line in the initial post -- but I wouldn't be surprised if scoutmaster were to find a reason to complain about that, too, in a continuation of the pattern that Scrapheap noted.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 6:58:20 PM

Why not just post what you do for everyone else CampKohler? BTW, you attempts at humor are really poor. Don't give up your day job to become a comedian. You will not be able to make a living at it!
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 4:14:17 PM

Let's compromise. To make SM happy, instead of typing out the normal verbiage, I will use a code*. I will put a period at the end of the final sentence to indicate that a suggestion of mine has been included in the STL.

----
*Shh! It will be our secret.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 7:37:59 AM

Gas_Buddy wrote > It would seem, at least to me, that you think everyone needs to know a suggestion's been added to the list, and by telling others your own suggestion has been added, you're being consistent.

Seems to me that it is a matter of simple common sense that someone who maintains such a list would add his own suggestions to such a list and nothing needs to be said.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 6:58:37 AM

Members do cheat. In my area, not all grade prices are posted on the station signs yet there are members who post every grade for every station they pass. Unless they are pulling into the 15 stations they pass, they are cheating. You might not want to believe it CampKohler, but it is true.

What humor are you talking about Gas Buddy? I just read that as a rant of an addled mind.

Gotta agree with Gas Buddy. If you are telling others their suggestion has been added to your wiki, you should tell everyone else your suggestion has been added as well. Consistency.
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GoGoGoodyear
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 1:21:15 AM


While being able to just click Submit may save a few seconds, having to click on each current price, even just to transfer it before updating, makes someone at least a little more aware of what prices they are posting.

I can see this proposed shortcut button causing an outdated price to be posted accidentally.

Consider the following: a station sells reg/mid/premium but for whatever reason the premium price has not been updated in close to 24 hours and is now wrong, but the reg and mid prices have been updated more recently and are still correct. Someone comes along and uses the Single-button price post method causing auto-copy-update of all 3 grades, without noticing that premium is wrong and out of date. They have just updated a wrong premium price which would have soon expired on it's own, and now the wrong price stays for another 24 hours, unless someone else comes along and posts the correct price.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 3:39:57 PM

CampKohler:

You wrote: "I never tell myself that I have added my own suggestion for the simple reason that I already know I have...Just assume that any suggestion that I make I will be added to the STL ASAP."

If the purpose of telling your self that another member's suggestion has been added to your "STL", why post your comment in every thread, telling others it's been added. if it's for your use only, then you don't need to tell others. If the purpose of of posting the comment that "it's been added" is for the benefit of others (so they know to, or are reminded to, check the list then it would seem to make sense to tell others that your own suggestion has been included in the list, in order that THEY know it's been added. It would seem, at least to me, that you think everyone needs to know a suggestion's been added to the list, and by telling others your own suggestion has been added, you're being consistent.

As for "why would anyone bother", I've been saying for a long time that if people want to post for points, it's easy to simply copy someone else's posts, rather than make up prices that could be "challenged" or questioned. It's just that your suggestion, as proposed, that "all current prices be copied", means that unconfirmed prices could/would be posted frequently. Granted, the prices may be correct, but they may not be.

I, for one, don't see the value in allowing multiple prices to be posted when, in some cases, only one or two prices have been verified. Especially as the current app system, simply clicking on a price, will copy the price; and clicking on two prices (say regular and premium) will do the same thing, without your "then a second press...short delay". Your suggestion doesn't seem to be any more (or at least not much more) expedient or simple than what's already in place.

Last, just because people disagreed with your suggestion (as they've disagreed with some of mine, some of, for example, RichWLIN's, Scrapheap's, TxJean's, kwzh's, scoutmaster's, etc.) doesn't mean the response about drooling misfit is appropriate or necessary. Some ideas, in the opinion of others, aren't useful, are inappropriate, aren't beneficial, are short-sighted, or may simply need to be reconsidered and either redefined or modified. That's all anyone here, that disagrees with your suggestion, has said.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 3:10:32 PM

What is uncalled for is the idea that members will cheat if given the slightest encouragement. Since it only takes reporting two stations to max out points, why would anyone bother? Yet we are told without the slightest evidence to support it, that that is a exactly what will happen with such a degree of certainty that there is no doubt about the matter. Foo, I say! I will even go so far to say, double foo!
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 2:02:32 PM

I think, but it's just my opinion the most recent comment is uncalled for. Even if we're supposed to read the humor between the lines.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 1:49:25 PM

Consensus: Saving 1 or 2 key presses will turn the majority of GB members into drooling pathological misfits intent on destroying the system and civilization as we know it. I honestly had no idea that my fellow members were so close to the edge (or would "tipping point" be more apt?) of criminality* and anti-social behavior, but I guess I'd better believe it on the theory that it takes one to know one. It's a wonder we can trust any of the prices anybody reports. Yass.

----
*I'm suppose that when they were kids, they pulled all their teeth out with pliers in order to screw the Tooth Fairy.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 7:55:02 AM

"he only way I would agree would be if there was a button for each grade ;-) never all grades."

This is currently available, TxJeans, at least on the Android app.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 7:43:04 PM

I think there are those that would use this to post w/out seeing all prices just because it is so easy. It would open up bad pricing beyond those that aggressively cheat to those that are just lazy.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 1:10:29 PM

Exactly Zim. This encourages abuse.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 11:04:53 AM

I think people who are willing to report prices that are wrong or not seen are willing to do the extra 1-4 clicks it currently takes to copy prices.
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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 9:31:55 AM

This sounds like a really bad idea, that would allow people to post prices that are wrong, not seen and basically enable the already suspect app prices posted by game players.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 9:05:08 AM

TXJeans wrote > KWZH? Are you saying it is a bug that if no prices are in the fields and update is pushed that nothing happens?

No, he is saying that this thread, which scoutmaster has been railing, baiting and belittling the OP over, is a bug report.

And I still like the idea in this thread based upon public safety.



[Edited by: Scrapheap at 4/12/2013 9:06:29 AM EST]
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 7:50:35 AM

KWZH? Are you saying it is a bug that if no prices are in the fields and update is pushed that nothing happens? I don't call that a bug, but design. Maybe a deficiency that it doesn't pop up a warning that you haven't entered any prices stupid!

CK"Currently, when the Submit button is pushed, if no prices have been entered, nothing happens. I suggest that in that situation, all current prices be copied to the price entry fields. Then a second press of Submit will enter them. There should be a short delay to prevent an accidental double pressing from reporting."

The only way I would agree would be if there was a button for each grade ;-) never all grades. Remember, you all live in CA, where apparently it is mandated or the practice to post all grades at curbside.

Most/much of the country that is NOT so, and this would increase the false pricing of grades. Several have reported that in their location when Regular drops, sometimes the other grades will go up, and that stations do not necessarily always keep the same spread between grades every change of price.

Scout - apparently those in CA don't understand that not all states are like CA and that many/most states see pricing at the curb side being reduced more and more to only regular or regular and diesel, or an electronic rotating price board where those driving by might only catch one price (which could also lead to incorrect price reporting when capturing prices while driving).

jbaker6953 -- NO that is not a good enough reason.


[Edited by: TxJeans at 4/12/2013 7:55:37 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 5:06:11 AM

"To make it easier for non-cheaters. Is that a good enough reason?"

It's not that hard now and there are so many other more imporatant suggestions that should be implemented.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 4:26:29 AM

The linked item was never posted as a suggestion, but as a bug report, which CK evidently doesn't index. It's not his fault that someone inappropriately flagged it.
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jbaker6953
Rookie Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 3:08:28 AM

>> Yes a cheater will cheat. But why make it easier for them.

To make it easier for non-cheaters. Is that a good enough reason?
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:28:54 PM

Like I said, just trying to bait and belittle the OP.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:03:14 PM

That's what I meant Gas Buddy.

"Just assume that any suggestion that I make I will be added to the STL ASAP."

I never assume. Get's one in trouble.

Oh yeah this wasn't added so there goes your credibility on that statement.
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CampKohler
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 3:46:16 PM

I never tell myself that I have added my own suggestion for the simple reason that I already know I have. According to Shannon's information theory, if the msg is known to the receiver before it is received, the information content is zero (no matter how complex the msg). I didn't see the value of sending a zero-content msg. Just assume that any suggestion that I make I will be added to the STL ASAP.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 3:12:05 PM

I assume scoutmaster meant to bait and belittle the OP.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 2:19:02 PM

CampKohler:

Not trying to speak for scoutmaster but I think what he's saying is that you always let members know when you're adding their suggestion to your list, so they know it's been added, why aren't/why haven't you let others know that your suggestion has been added to the list, or is there a reason that the members don't need to be informed your suggestion has been added.

If you're going to say that their suggestions have been added (for whatever reason they need to know that it's been added), then for consistency they should be informed that all suggestions (yours included) have been added.

But I'm assuming that's what soutmaster meant based on his posts.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 1:30:46 PM

I never look at your wiki CK. But when you add something you post a message in the topic. I don't see a message in this topic that you added this.

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 4/11/2013 1:31:53 PM EST]
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CampKohler
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 1:29:08 PM

No, I meant what makes you think it already hasn't been added? Are there some parts of the STL that you can't see, through say, some kind of Wikispaces defect?
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:02:14 PM

What leads me to ask that? Well this is a suggestion and per yourself, all suggestions get added to your wiki.
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CampKohler
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 1:56:32 PM

What leads you to ask that?

[Edited by: CampKohler at 4/10/2013 1:58:06 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 8:24:56 PM

Yes a cheater will cheat. But why make it easier for them. And not all stations post all prices on their sign boards. So if the last member was at the pumps and posted all grades the station carries but the only price on the board is regular, by allowing a one tap update for all prices would allow any member, not necessarily a cheater, to post all prices without seeing them.

So you aren't adding this to your wiki, CK?
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 6:57:52 PM

On that theory that making things easier increases cheating, we should require that all prices be entered in little-endian binary by means of Morse code sent with the left foot. (From that you can probably deduce that I don't subscribe at all to the idea that making it easier to enter prices will encourage cheating. A cheater will cheat no matter how hard it is, unless of course we go with the binary thing.)

Once it has been determined that there are no changes in, say, four existing prices, one should be able to copy all the prices over in one click. (This is not a new idea, but I believe which button that should be used to do it is.)
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 11:14:34 AM

Posting prices on your phone while moving, regardless the method, is verboten! So it might be a sec quicker to update all prices with one tap than 3-4 taps. It's still verboten!

The downside is it will increase people posting prices they don't visually see.

Is this being added to you wiki, CampKohler?

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 4/8/2013 11:16:51 AM EST]
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 10:48:48 AM

Gas_Buddy wrote > Can you expand on the "public safety" issue? The public safety issue, as I see it, would concern (for example) posting prices while driving or while at a stop sign, which goes beyond (in my opinion) making it easier to post prices by way of double clicking.

So you would rather people spend more time distracted from driving?
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 9:43:06 AM

blue_focus2012:
"Isn't the street-side price board always the same as the at the pump price?"

Yes, in theory. Prices are normally changed at the pump and then at the outside sign at the same time, although it's possible that a gas station attendant inadvertently updated the pump and didn't update the sign either because he/she got distracted and didn't make both changes. While I can't think of very many times that the two prices haven't been in sync over a long time of driving, reading the various threads you'll see that some members say this happens (that there are "deceptive price postings at gas stations) relatively frequently if not regularly.

Scrapheap:

Can you expand on the "public safety" issue? The public safety issue, as I see it, would concern (for example) posting prices while driving or while at a stop sign, which goes beyond (in my opinion) making it easier to post prices by way of double clicking. I do agree, however, that if there is one way of doing things on an iPhone that it should be similar on other devices (simple commonality).
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 5:09:32 AM

Yes to your 1st question kwzh. And yes the app has both a map and list feature and it can be defaulted to start up on either.
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kwzh
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 3:59:32 AM

Is this suggestion specific to one particular method of entering prices? I had the idea that the app, like the main site, had both a map and a non-map mode. And for the benefit of us non-app users, could you clarify what the program state is like before hitting the submit button? E.g., on the main site, when using the map, you first have to click on each of the prices that you intend to replace, which turns the corresponding display area into a text input field. If this is also true for the app, then is the proposal a way to avoid that click, or to avoid entering the prices after making the click, or what?
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 11:02:35 PM

Based on public safety, this is a good idea but should be extended to all devices.
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blue_focus2012
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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 9:07:52 PM

Isn't the street-side price board always the same as the at the pump price?
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 7:13:43 PM

You're suggesting that a "quick post" button simply duplicate all three or four prices (three grades of gas and diesel) in order to save a couple seconds of time entering the prices that you have observed?

Seems to me that, as TxJeans noted, that you would updating prices that may have, in fact, changed but which you haven't noticed, in order to save a couple seconds. What you're doing is enabling "Pefection" without the reality of having seen prices.

Is it really that difficult or time consuming to enter the price on the iPhone?
Or is it really that difficult or time consuming to click on the price already showing on the iPhone.

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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 4:48:34 PM

Updating prices from a mobile phone is not that hard and all this would do is create more abuse.

Is this getting added to the wiki CK?
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 4:23:06 PM

Wrong. Not ALL prices may have been observed.
When outside of CA, many, if not most, do not post all prices at the street-side price board which is where many of the prices are entered.
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