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Author Topic: cash price is not my price Back to Topics
foodlacky

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Oakland

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 8:20:13 PM

I find it weird that we're supposed to post the cash price, yes it is technically the cheapest option, but I'd rather know before driving somewhere how much gas will cost for me. I don't regularly carry $75+ in cash, so cash price isn't my price...
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 1:08:30 PM

ORN: "cash price...yes i pay cash 90 percent of the time...don't like credit cards!!! "

The reason to post CASH might be stated that it is the lowest price, but the real reason is that it is almost always the price posted at the curb in areas (most) that don't require posting of both prices at the street price board.

As far as credit cards, they are a tool and just like a chain saw, not everyone is able to use the tool properly and safely. For those that can, they can save as much as 5% (not 5 cents) off the price of a gallon of gas.

For me, the Cash Back Credit card price trumps even the price offered by cash discount stations in my area. I get a nice bit of money back each month off the statement due amount. And, no, I do not pay an annual fee, nor do I carry a balance, nor do I pay any interest etc.

Even if we had two sets of fields for cash and credit, the chances of both prices being entered on a routine basis is small unless in CA. Therefore, even if they do give us dual sets of fields, we still need (which would be an easy first step) a dual priced station flag tied to the MASTER STATION LIST.

I try to always put a comment in the comments that a station is dual priced or charge more for credit, but most folks are too lazy, or are self righteous about not using credit cards to bother and their posts over-write the informative information left by others.

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oklahomaredneck
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 4:35:04 AM

cash price...yes i pay cash 90 percent of the time...don't like credit cards!!!
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 8:58:33 AM

Dear Gas_Buddy --

<<"The "stupid programs" aren't created in a vacuum. Programmers may create programs for the fun of it or to see if they can make a program work, but someone else, someone who agreed the "stupid reward" programming mreade sense (either at the time or still) allowed the "reward" program to be implemented.">>

I never said they were created in a vacuum. I never said the programmers decide by themselves what to program. I have said that I feel the app awards are IMO doing more harm than good. Unless focused solely on AD revenue based on numbers of members, they should be more concerned about attracting the right type of members - those that play by the rules and add value to the data we all use.

<<"I'm not blaming programmers. Regardless of whether or not I agree with the "app rewards" as a way to entice new membership, which is necessary as Gas Buddy, like it or not, is a business (and in light of all the members who've posted that they don't read any advertising, refuse to support advertisers, have advertisement blockers turned on and suggest others do so), I can understand the logic of the "rewards" and/or "awards".>>

I can CHOOSE to not like it regardless of the reasoning and post my OPINION. I feel they have the reward side reasonably balanced on the Full Site, but I feel the rewards on the APPS are not balanced and are a waste of band-width that encourage cheating more than accurate pricing -- again MY OPINION. Personally, I don't see the APPS games as being very stimulating to get me to use the APPs. I can find better entertainment elsewhere as far as things to "play". I am more about trying to post the prices I see when I see them (which is often less than 5 per day in my routine travel to and from work).

<<"Programmers program either because they had an idea or someone gave them an idea; but someone other than programmers agreed the program should be implemented. Unless you're accepting of the idea that the programmers are running the site, and if that's the belief, then you still have more than programmers running the site; you have site operators who are programming.">>>

Boy you sure make a lot of assumptions. I never said the programmers had the decision making independently over where they spend their programming time. I just commented after someone mentioned being understaffed and someone mentioned revenue, that it might be a bit of both - since they DO have programmers working on APPS games.

<<<"Like it or not, wanting to increase revenue is not a bad motivation in any business. And Gas Buddy is not a charity nor (do I believe) it's intended to operate as a tax loss. It's a business.">>>

Where did I ever say they should operate as a charity or at a loss - tax or otherwise?


[Edited by: TxJeans at 4/6/2013 8:59:59 AM EST]
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 5:35:08 AM

It did start out as a labor of love, with the creators spending their own time and money while also holding down their day jobs, by my understanding.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 11:02:09 AM

TxJeansLL:

"They seem to have programmers that can due stupid rewards for the APPS...."

The "stupid programs" aren't created in a vacuum. Programmers may create programs for the fun of it or to see if they can make a program work, but someone else, someone who agreed the "stupid reward" programming mreade sense (either at the time or still) allowed the "reward" program to be implemented.

I'm not blaming programmers. Regardless of whether or not I agree with the "app rewards" as a way to entice new membership, which is necessary as Gas Buddy, like it or not, is a business (and in light of all the members who've posted that they don't read any advertising, refuse to support advertisers, have advertisement blockers turned on and suggest others do so), I can understand the logic of the "rewards" and/or "awards".

Programmers program either because they had an idea or someone gave them an idea; but someone other than programmers agreed the program should be implemented. Unless you're accepting of the idea that the programmers are running the site, and if that's the belief, then you still have more than programmers running the site; you have site operators who are programming.

Like it or not, wanting to increase revenue is not a bad motivation in any business. And Gas Buddy is not a charity nor (do I believe) it's intended to operate as a tax loss. It's a business.

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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 8:56:49 AM

I would tend to agree kwzh. Hopefully with the acquisition, there will be more money for web site development.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 7:21:51 AM

Maybe a little of both? They seem to have programmers that can due stupid rewards for the APPS....
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 11:57:10 PM

Scrapheap, I wish you (and others with similar thoughts) would stop saying that. I think a simpler explanation is that they've been drastically understaffed for some time.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 10:01:59 PM

The response from the moderator is disappointing but once you realize that the only thing that motivates GasBuddy is increasing revenue, it all makes sense.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 9:01:02 PM

Don said "For the time being, in areas where these price differences exist, please post the cash price. A comment about the difference between credit prices can be included in the Comments field, but this is not required."

This makes using this site when traveling limited. Most folks know where the cheap prices tend to be locally even w/out GB but when traveling one doesn't know the pricing habits and cheap locations.

The comment field is also of limited use. Many folks don't know if a station has a cash / credit price difference unless familiar with the station or the local signage regulations, and most folks are too lazy to post the comment. And, if they do, it is soon lost when someone that doesn't post a comment posts the price update since the comments are not durable.

Therefore, even if we were to get two sets of fields, we need a durable flag tied to the MSL. This would be an appropriate first step to solving the cash/credit, and would still be needed with dual fields unless/until all areas are forced to display all prices at the curb (And I, for one, do not want our government mandating that as much as I would like to see the stations do that. If the government mandates, the dual pricing will likely become more common. And, overall, I want LESS government interference in my life, not more.).
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 1:39:17 PM

Well I suppose from the feedback gathered here and expressed in numerous topics before this, Cash and Credit does vary by region, most stations the have cash/credit pricing either advertise the lower cash price to draw in customers, or by law have to display both prices.

Ultimately the cash price is the lowest price available to everyone outside of club member/other promotional discounts.

Cash and Credit prices is also not available in all areas throughout Canada and the US.

For the time being, in areas where these price differences exist, please post the cash price. A comment about the difference between credit prices can be included in the Comments field, but this is not required.

If you have any further questions or problems about how cash and credit prices should be posted on GasBuddy please refer to the FAQ

-Don

[Edited by: Don at 4/3/2013 2:12:01 PM EST]
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 2:47:04 AM

sks1586 writes,
> Cash & Credit price should be same to attract customers.

They should be the same to attract credit card customers, and they should be different to attract cash customers. Anyway, the decision is up to the station, not GasBuddy.
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sks1586
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2013 9:48:22 PM

Cash & Credit price should be same to attract customers.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2013 8:36:04 PM

My experience in New Jersey is that it is common for stations to post both cash and credit prices for regular on the large signs visible from the road. For other grades, usually only one price is displayed, generally the cash price, and the prices of some grades may not be shown at all on the sign.

In California, stations that have different prices (such as cash and credit) for the same grade of fuel must by law display on signs visible from the road the highest price; almost always stations will also display the lower (typically cash) prices, since it is in their economic interest to do so. The applicable law is California Business and Professions Code section 13532 (c), which reads in part: "In the event that the same grade of motor fuel is sold at different prices from any single place of business, it is unlawful for any person to display any advertising medium which advertises a price of a grade of motor fuel unless the advertising medium advertises in numerals of equal size each of the higher prices, including all taxes, for which the grade is sold or offered for sale, and unless the advertising medium explains the conditions, and any limitations, under which that grade is sold or offered for sale at different prices."

[Edited by: DavisSta at 4/1/2013 8:44:04 PM EST]
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 30, 2013 7:44:34 AM

screw-
Outside of CA, most stations do not post both prices.
Most folks post from the sign.
It is not always obvious from the sign if the station is dual priced (in FL the hang tags are required off the side of the sign but easily missed)
Many stations throughout the country do not even post all grades.
Most folks are too lazy to post said comment.
Said comment is not durable, so the next lazy poster over-writes your good intentions.
Even if we get separate cash/credit prices, there will be pricing entry errors as members post from the pump.
Therefore, we need a durable flag tied to MSL even if we get two fields.
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screwoilco
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Mar 30, 2013 12:59:37 AM

Here in Sacramento, I have found that as a rule of thumb most Chevron and 76 stations charge a premium for credit, typically between 8c and 24c per gallon. Most of them post both prices and there is a spot under comments for each station on gasbuddy where spotters can specify what that difference is.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 2:26:56 AM

pacecar68,

As TxJeans points out, your statement that "the credit price is at most $.10 more" is not always true. I can give you a nearby example.

If you drive across the Bay Bridge from Oakland (where you often post prices) and check out the prices at the RC station at Castro & Market Streets in San Francisco, you'll almost always find cash/credit differences of well over 10¢/gallon. Their usual policy is to have a low cash price and to match the price of the Chevron station across the street for credit. According to the current GasBuddy posting, the price at RC is $3.939 for regular. Since poster left no comments, if you weren't familiar with the station you wouldn't realize that credit price is a lot higher: it is almost certainly $4.379, which is what is posted as the price at the Chevron station. That's a 44¢/gallon difference, certainly something that it would be nice to be warned about. A few years ago, that RC station had a different policy; at that time the station routinely had a difference of more than $1.00/gallon between the cash and credit prices.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 7:37:40 PM

Pacecar -

The problem is, I would rather be pleasantly surprised with a lower price than mad to get to a station posted and find out that it has a "credit surcharge".

I can usually do better than the CASH price by going to a non-dual priced station and paying with my 5% cash back.

The real problem is that most places (outside of California) do not post both prices. Here, locally the cash price is posted. There is a hang tag that may or may not be very visable at night. Folks don't bother to post in the comments that the station has a credit surcharge.

For that reason, even if provided with 2 sets of fields, there will be prices that are mis-posted in the wrong field, or the credit price will not be posted.

Therefore, the suggestion is 3 part:
1. A durable flag tied to the MSL indicating the station has dual pricing. This is the first step.
2. Cash and credit fields.
3. Tying the fields to the MSL so the credit fields only appear for dual priced stations.

"the credit price is at most $.10 more. seems easy enough to add that amount to the lowest found price.... "
Actually, the credit price varies in different areas. At one point L.I. was reporting a very large price differential. Since I don't live there, I have not confirmed the validity of the report. And, adding $.10 to the price doesn't make sense when there is no way to know which station is dual priced.

Around me, I know which stations tend to be dual priced and avoid them. I avoid them for two reasons - first, because of the fact that they add the surcharge and don't post both prices on the sign, and secondly, I can almost always beat the CASH price with my 5% CASH BACK card at a non-dual priced station...especially at today's prices.

However, when I travel out of my homesite area, I am handicapped because I don't know if the station reported with that nice low price is single priced or dual priced at 5 cents, 10 cents or more.

In all reality, the CASH price is what the FAQ says because outside of California, very few stations post both cash and credit prices at the STREET sign which is from where most prices that are posted are gathered.
In fact, around here, most stations post the REG price, or REG and Diesel and not all grades let alone cash and credit.

[Edited by: TxJeans at 3/24/2013 7:41:25 PM EST]
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pacecar68
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 7:22:08 PM

i like the cash prices more. it is a better metric of where the cheap gas is. the credit price is at most $.10 more. seems easy enough to add that amount to the lowest found price....
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 6:21:58 PM

Your suggestions have been forwarded to the development team for further review.

-Don
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 7:01:19 AM

jim "I like the idea of a flag, perhaps even a flag with a nickel, a dime, or whatever. You see, the cash price isn't the lowest price. I get 3-5% back by using a credit card. Therefore, $3.40 cash is more expensive than $3.50 credit. "

That wouldn't work - the first step is just a durable flag. The price difference between the cash and credit can change at some stations on a regular basis, and can be different between the grades.

Scrapheap - Yep, you got my point. Except in a few places (CA) the two prices are not posted at the STREET (in fact, around here most are going to posting reg/diesel). And, locally I know which brands and stations tend to dual price and avoid them (yeah, maybe I might miss out on the absolute lowest once in a blue moon, but most of the time their price is the not enough lower than the station that doesn't to make up for cash back). But, when traveling - it is a whole different game.

If you can put logos on stations you should be able to provide the flag. How about diverting some of the silly APP awards programming to fixing this topic? It is not going away, and I suspect we will see it increase.

Don "You can still review the pump price/signage before making an informed decision on what your best option to further savings on fuel could be"

When driving down the HWY and I see a low station 5 miles towards my destination only to find that the price was "cash" and I am traveling and not carrying excessive CASH on me and using my CC for gas, hotels, etc, I am not happy to stumble across this CASH price and know that I passed up on the better price 5 miles back. I don't want to keep "pulling into stations to check prices" I could do that w/out Gasbuddy.

I believe a recent poll showed that most users pay by CC....several reasons to do so --- 1) safety -- stay with my car at the pump. 2) So I don't have to carry excessive amounts of cash on my -- especially when traveling, 3) cash back discount of 5% -- only requirement is to have good credit, use a credit card properly (pay off IN FULL each month) and get one with a great discount - several out there offer 5% on gas.

Give us a bone! A durable flag to start with....

[Edited by: TxJeans at 3/20/2013 7:08:09 AM EST]
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 2:41:25 AM

Don wrote > Most stations where cash and credit prices exist will either advertise both cash and credit prices, or only the cash prices. You can still review the pump price/signage before making an informed decision on what your best option to further savings on fuel could be.

Gee, thanks Don. Most of us know which stations are dual priced in our areas. We don't know if stations are dual priced in other areas. If we check GasBuddy, drive to another area because the prices appeared lower there, only to find out that the stations are dual priced and the cash price was posted, we just got screwed.

I really don't think it would be terrible difficult to provide a durable flag, as TxJeans has been pushing for, which would at least provide a "buyer beware" warning. I guess it doesn't add to the bottom line so GasBuddy doesn't care.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 3/20/2013 2:42:25 AM EST]
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jim27106
All-Star Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 2:23:44 AM

I like the idea of a flag, perhaps even a flag with a nickel, a dime, or whatever. You see, the cash price isn't the lowest price. I get 3-5% back by using a credit card. Therefore, $3.40 cash is more expensive than $3.50 credit.
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GBTDI
Rookie Author Long Island

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 9:37:49 PM

Some stations charge the cash price when using debit cads i liked to know which stations do that without having to find out at the pump is this possible
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 9:04:48 PM

Don, seriously, you could start small in reducing this frustration.
Consider a durable flag tied to the master station list that indicates a station is dual priced.

Even if you offer two sets of fields, unless the two sets are tied to a flag for the station so they only appear for dual priced stations you will continue to have inaccurate data from the bulk of folks that pay with credit.

The REAL reason for posting cash is because it is what is posted on the street sign in most cases.

Please at least throw us a bone with the dual station flag.
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 6:35:14 PM

We ask that in areas where cash and credit prices exist, users post the cash price. This is because the cash price is ultimately the lowest price available to everyone, outside of club member prices or other promotional discounts (car washes, in-store purchases, etc).

If you live in an area where cash and credit prices are available, I can understand that paying a higher price to cover the surcharge for using your card can be frustrating, but it should not go unexpected (much like anticipating most Costco stations require you to be a member to purchase fuel).

Most stations where cash and credit prices exist will either advertise both cash and credit prices, or only the cash prices. You can still review the pump price/signage before making an informed decision on what your best option to further savings on fuel could be.

We hope to one day accommodate cash and credit prices for areas affected by these price differences.

-Don


[Edited by: Don at 3/19/2013 6:35:48 PM EST]
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 11:39:00 AM

cashh is not necessarily the cheapest option.
If one has to go inside to get cashh from his credit card by using the ATM machine. cashh price is bogus. Also, having to go inside to pay cashh slows everything down. And the gas station has higher insurance cost because of the need to have so much cash on hand.
I'm not suggesting they they stop accepting cashh. But if they charge more for credit, I would lilke to know it before I drive to the station becashue of the wrong price being posted on GB.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2013 7:22:32 PM

The problem w/ the comments is that they are only "recommended" or "suggested" and they are not durable. So, as soon as the next person comes along that doesn't enter the comment about dual pricing it is gone.

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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2013 5:30:27 PM

It would be great if GB could place a check mark on the posting for Cash.
I need this flag. I too don't carry enough cash to make my gas purchase.
So, someone suggest just go into the station and use their ATM.
Sorry, I wont play those games.

GB gives you an opportunity to make comments. But when I am looking for a gas station on my mobile, I don't see many notes.
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Bruce1224
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2013 4:06:51 PM

After reading the last few posts, I can see a new opinion poll question coming.

In my area, there are just a few stations that offer a lower cash price, and it applies to diesel only - the stations are along I-75, mostly in SW Ohio, and they are clearly marked on big external signs. The lower cash price seems more rare or non-existent in the rest of the state or adjoining states, along major interstates if at all.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 10:00:24 PM

As indicated, the practice varies widely across the country...exactly why it needs to be documented so that when away from your home site GasBuddy is still helpful. It also seems to have been growing in popularity lately.

Around me the ones that are most commonly dual priced are:
CITGO - virtually all
Exxon - virtually all
BP - virtually all
Marathon - some
Mobil - some
Sunoco - a rare one here and there
Shell - a rare one here and there
Some of the smaller/no-name stations.

Not sure about Valero or some of the less common brands in the area.

I can almost always find the same price or a penny higher (before cash back) at Hess, Racetrac or Wawa and one Sunoco. A few more stations are still cheaper once I add in my 5% cash back at the pump. (got to love my GAS card - Pentagon Federal).

I don't do debit cards, I pay my credit card in full every month, and I rarely have much cash to fill a tank at these prices - to hard to get to ATMs during daylight during the work week and too busy with life on weekends.
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RogerB
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 10:56:59 AM

Likewise, in Indianapolis there are very few stations that charge a premium for using credit cards, and I never patronize them.

In other parts of the country, the practice is more widespread. In fact, in some areas there are stations (like Arco), that DO NOT accept credit cards at all. When traveling, I avoid those stations, and am usually able to buy gas with my credit card at the same price (or lower), with GasBuddy's help.

I agree that having those stations that charge a penalty for using credit cards clearly identified on GasBuddy sites would be a very desirable feature.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 10:31:39 AM

I wonder how common dual pricing is across the USA? In my area, there are very few dual priced stations.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 9:09:06 AM

jrsva " If your desire not to carry cash overrides your desire for the lowest price, so be it; that is your option."

I don't carry cash much of the time, but I still want the lowest price. I can often beat the CASH price at a CREDIT same as CASH priced station using my Credit Card, so a slightly higher priced single mode station w/ my cash back card is often less than the CASH price at the station next door. To do that, I need to know which stations are DUAL priced.

This needs to be addressed. It is past due.
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 9:03:44 AM

This cash/credit price problem will NOT go away even with dual price entry fields unless stations are forced to post both prices (not common in most of the country, though I understand it is either common or mandated in California - or parts of California).

The reason for the "Cash" price, is that in most cases where one price / set of prices is posted, it is the CASH price. And, at least where I live, more and more places are posting only REG or REG & Diesel.

Where I live, they are required to put a hang sign on the main sign that indicates CASH pricing exists, but the tags are not really obvious and usually not lit at night except from the "glow" of the main sign. Folks will still be often inputing the wrong data just as they do now.
.
First step is a durable flag attached to the MSL so the Credit Card purchaser is forewarned. The cash/credit price issue isn't a big deal locally as you soon learn what stations are dual priced (and the brands stations that are often dual priced) and I just avoid them. But, when traveling it is a real pain. I see two stations one at exit X and the other at exit z. I am very unhappy when I drive past X to Z based on a cash price where someone did NOT annotate that it was cash only (because they were too lazy, or because they did not know).
.
If comments were durable until actively erased, that would also help. Or have a flag on the MSL that causes said comment to appear. We still wouldn't necessarily know the credit price, but at least we would know that it is likely higher than the posted price.
.
The durable flag MUST be part of the dual pricing solution or we will still be fighting over incorrectly entered prices, or if dual entry is provided, it must be tied to the MSL so that only one set of windows shows if not a dual priced station.
.
Hopefully, OPIS will provide the resources and encouragement to get something done in this regards.
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jrsva
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 12:19:41 AM

GasBuddy wants the prices that are posted to be those available to everyone without requiring special discount cards or other purchases in order to qualify for a lower price. That lowest price is generally the cash price. If your desire not to carry cash overrides your desire for the lowest price, so be it; that is your option.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 10:01:01 PM

Cash isn't your price, or cash isn't the way you want to pay for fuel?

I assume your suggestion, though you didn't say it, is that Gas Buddy's post of choice is what you want it to be, even though Gas Buddy management decided that the lowest cost price (common for all buyers) is what most people are looking for.

How you want to pay and what's the lowest price (the lowest price being what most people are interested in) are two entirely different things.

The bottom line, however (or, unfortunately?), is that, until Gas Buddy entirely overhauls the program, there is nothing that will satisfy all members. (I, for one for perspective, would rather know the least I have to pay to for fuel, and plan my purchase (cash, if that's lower than the lowest credit price) accordingly.
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