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Author Topic: Location's Top Spotters and Champ Back to Topics
LCresearcher

Rookie Author
Houston

Posts:4
Points:892,830
Joined:Jan 2011
Message Posted: Jan 2, 2013 11:24:17 PM

I have mixed feelings about the new feature on the Android app that shows a location's top spotters and the location's posting champ.
I like knowing who is posting prices for a particular station and how frequently those users post a particular.
I do not like that some people can be recognized as top spotters without having observered some or all of the prices they posted. Some people in my area appear to repost the previous price, and may post the same price several times after the station has changed the price. A few people post wildly inaccurate prices that they could not possibly have observed. In my mind, these people are not Champs, even though the app may say that they are. As verification can be difficult, I suggest that Champ be based on a multi-part formula, with one point awarded for each grade posted per day, 10 points for each grade where the previous price was different or blank, and 10 negative points for each price posted for a grade not sold by the station. Multiple postings on the same day would only count if the price changed. This type of formula would recognize those posters who provide new (and hopefully accurate) prices, while discouraging easily verified inaccuracies.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,284
Points:2,690,325
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 5:12:45 AM

fumanaz - You don't have to be within 3 miles of a station for a price report to count. You can report a price using the full website and be 100s of miles away and it will count.

People have a problem with Top Spotter because it invites abuse, it is pure fluff and many of us believe there are far more important issues to address, like the cash vs credit pricing issue.

Nothing prevented anyone from confirming a price for a given station before the Top Spotter.
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fumanaz
Sophomore Author Arizona

Posts:152
Points:450,440
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 1:57:02 AM

I would like to know what are the guidelines for how a Top Spotter is counted vs. not counted. I appears there is a 3 mile limit???? Also, prices don't change the much, so those who report everyday will report the same price as the previous day. So why is this a problem with most of you here? Its the way it is. It almost sounds like you are suggestion only the first reporter of a new price would get, credit for the price reporting. How does that appear fair for everyone? It doesn't.

I like the fact that others are able to confirm price you reported earlier. I also think Top Spotter reporting limits are not safe for those driving to and from work each day. I do my best to ensure I report prices when stopped or even pulled over. The issue with this, is I might be miles away before I report the price I saw at a station I passed earlier. Just about everytime, it the same price I reported the day before or someone else reported hours ago.

I like having the Top Spotters. This allows me to create buddies within Gasbuddy.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,284
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Message Posted: Mar 16, 2013 12:35:40 AM

Glad to help a fellow contributor.

I should add that posting prices from the main site using an FSL entry with comments will give you credit. The bug is with the app.
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

Posts:105
Points:406,500
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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2013 2:54:40 PM

Thanks, Scrapheap.
I figured there was a good explanation. This makes sense. I only added the comments after I had included the stations in my favorites, and made an assumption that only I would be able to see the comments that I made on my favorites. But without someone else looking at it to tell me otherwise, I had not way of confirming that. I have removed most of the comments from the ones that I frequently report and will see how it goes. I'll go back and clear the others as I have time, so as not to confuse anyone else. Thanks again for looking into this and providing constructive ideas and solutions.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,284
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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 8:59:40 PM

MistrEd wrote > Scrapheap, I am just curious. I see your home site is in Virginia, and as I am looking at the three of the four locations that I report on a daily basis, I see that you are listed as a Top Spotter at three of them. Have you even been in the Anderson, SC area that you could have reported prices here?

I like to figure out things that seem strange. I purposely looked for stations that you reported and reported the same stations using various methods. I used the map, report a price and FSL on the full site. I also used the app. In all cases, I back timed the prices so that my prices would not appear, would not affect any stats and would not lead anyone astray.

What I figured out is that there is a bug. If you report a price using the app and an FSL, and that FSL entry has a comment, you will not get credit toward station champ. Since comments are supposed to be used to indicate differences in price between cash and credit and other discounts, once again the gamey game part of the apps has reduced the accuracy and usefulness of posted prices.

I would suggest you remove the comments from your FSL that don't clarify pricing. Most of your comments have nothing to do with pricing, wouldn't be useful to most other users and is preventing you from taking part in the game.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 3/11/2013 9:03:46 PM EST]
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SmartShopper520
All-Star Author Ontario

Posts:763
Points:118,110
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 6:31:21 AM

No advantageous for older seniors whom do not have these access to these applications.
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Michael29644
Champion Author Greenville

Posts:6,770
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 9:35:09 PM

>Sorry, but if you're remotely suggesting if a member is doing wrong, why
>not temper your comment and say "I see you're in the area, enjoying it?
>After all, some members do travel to other members" areas.

I've seen the same thing happen here with other members. But after a bit of research, I found most had posted gas prices in numerous cities in the state 50-100 miles or more apart within minutes of each other. I posted messages on their whiteboards to the effect of, "Welcome to South Carolina. I hope you're enjoying your visit. How long do you plan on being here?" Not one of the abusers has ever answered. At least the problem seems to have improved a great deal since last summer.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 1:38:49 PM

MistrEd:

"I understand that he could be/have been in my area. I was asking to get verification of if he was to help determine if the data is correct or not."

I guess I'm naive; I give the benefit of the doubt to a member, especially a long time contributor to the website, that he/she might be travelling. If the prices were blatantly wrong for an area, I might have second thoughts, but simply an out of area member posting for my area doesn't automatically make me think "something's fishy about that post."

That said, while I'm a member of the Maryland Gas Buddy area, posting for Maryland, Washington DC and Northern Virginia (because those three distinct areas are work/social/shopping/etc areas for those in the DC metropolitan area, a not particularly small area), I split my time between my Gas Buddy home area and a different part of the country, hundreds of miles away from Maryland; no one in my "secondary" reporting area has questioned my posting; for that matter, quite of few of them, after I commented in their local discussion, warmly welcomed me saying they looked forward to my gas price posting.

Sorry, but unless you're suggesting that every out of area post may be a false post (i.e., simply posting out of area for points, awards, etc.),, or you're saying Scrapheaps is continually posting erroneous prices, then I give him every benefit of the doubt. I have no reason, nor have you shown any reason, to question his posting.

And, for the record, Scrapheap and I differ on many issues, and often have noticeably different perspectives on issues we do agre on, so I'm not just "sticking up" for him.
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pilotmass
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 9:03:35 AM

Doesn't add anything
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 12:14:32 AM

I understand that he could be/have been in my area. I was asking to get verification of if he was to help determine if the data is correct or not. I have posted in other areas when I am on vacation too. If he has not, then hopefully that gives a programmer additional knowledge.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:28,528
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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 2:11:19 PM

Seems like , MrEd, that Scrapheap, with four days as a leader, was/is simy traving. After l, you're not limited to only posting for your home area. Just as I occasionally get asked why I posted for Albequerque, Mobile and Jacksonville. As one person told me, after asking how I could post for "his area" when I'm from Maryland, "you're taking away points from local members".
He couldn't understand how I cod post for "his" area let alone for so many days in a row.

Sorry, but if you're remotely suggesting if a member is doing wrong, why not temper your comment and say "I see you're in the area, enjoying it? After all, some members do travel to other members" areas.

Just my opinion .
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

Posts:105
Points:406,500
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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 11:01:00 AM

Scrapheap, I am just curious. I see your home site is in Virginia, and as I am looking at the three of the four locations that I report on a daily basis, I see that you are listed as a Top Spotter at three of them. Have you even been in the Anderson, SC area that you could have reported prices here?

I am currently seeing you listed as T.S. at the following:
BP, 3027 N Main St & E North Ave, Anderson = 4 days
Stop-A-Minit, 3002 N Main St & Pine Ln, Anderson = 3 days
QuikTrip, 2901 N Main St & Whitehall Rd, Anderson = 4 days

I am not saying that it is impossible for you to have done this. Just that it seems improbable. I am also not saying that you have in anyway done anything improper. I am only mentioning it in hopes that who ever works on fixing this might have some sort of record to look back on to make this app work correctly.

Additionally, I have been recording each of these locations daily since prior to Feb 1st, and I am a "perfectionist" and stop and record all prices, (exception this morning, another spotter only recorded the Reg and Diesel prices moments before, so I filled in the mid grade prices only), and yet I don't show up on the T.S. list at all.

Again, I hope that this provides some constructive feedback, and, if needed, I would be willing to work with any GasBuddy employee that is working on this to make it work properly.
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

Posts:105
Points:406,500
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 4:10:24 PM

Thanks, Scrapheap!
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,284
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Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 3:19:05 PM

MistrEd - Your questions are answered here.
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

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Points:406,500
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 3:03:53 PM

Ok, whether you agree with that they are on here or not. The fact is that they ARE on here. Those of us that do look at them, just want to know what the guidelines/rules/factors are that determine the rankings? I have yet to see anyone respond to this.
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regulate_now
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,626
Points:1,009,050
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 2:45:40 PM

Disagree? I did not say the prices were bad nor that no one did not trust the site... But given your premise, if they were, I think income would come in for a while but longevity would come into play to end the company... The only point I WAS making is that the company now IS the app... like it or not... so what drives the apps success is what will drive the directions GBs takes...

[Edited by: regulate_now at 2/5/2013 2:46:11 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 1:36:04 PM

I disagree regulate. If the prices on this site were bad and no one trusted this site, there would be no income.
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regulate_now
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,626
Points:1,009,050
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 12:51:25 PM

One big fact that is hard to ignore- no matter how little the awards and the top spotter mean to us- the app has forever changed Gas Buddies in that, before the app this was an obscure website and after the app Gas Buddies is a big money maker... Do you know the technology and the business sense/contracts are there that can replace us all together? Prices can be taken far more accurately with sales information from transactions via the computer without human error or input...

AND the main reason GBs exists is to , make money, like any other business... What started out as a website, has bloomed into the app- look at these forums and how they are dying...



[Edited by: regulate_now at 2/5/2013 12:54:37 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 12:09:50 PM

If you are on this site for recognition then you are here for the wrong reason. The main purpose of this site is to help all consumers save money by being able to find the cheapest gas prices. Everything else is gravy.
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RichWLIN
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,196
Points:971,455
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Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 6:57:26 AM

TxJeans said: "I get really tired of sitting behind someone with their head buried in their "smart"phone when the light changes."

I second that emotion!
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,117
Points:632,335
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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 8:47:41 PM

Those frustrated with the awards can eliminate all frustration with this award by looking at Gasbuddy as a member driven service and not a game and go play any of many games available on your "Smart" phone.

I think it sad that so many folks need this type of recognition in their lives rather than recognition for a good job done at work or school. In fact, I find the best recognition comes from within and has nothing to do with tracking insignificant steps of life as posting gas prices.

I think the awards have detracted from the site. I don't bother with my smart phone for any awards, and will only post prices when a passenger or stopped (not just at a short light). I get really tired of sitting behind someone with their head buried in their "smart"phone when the light changes.
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MistrEd
Sophomore Author Greenville

Posts:105
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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 4:30:53 PM

Scoutmaster says: What does being recognized as a top spotter mean? Absolutely nothing except it gives you a warm fuzzy!

Your RIGHT! It does give me a warm fuzzy, but why shouldn't it? That is what it is there for! Maybe you "Champion Authors" that find it "a stupid thing to bother with" have been at it so long that you don't see a challenge to it, but for some of us junior members, maybe that is the only recognition that we are able to achieve, and it provides us with an extra incentive to keep at it. Maybe you don't care, but don't ruin it for the rest of us. I think that LCresearcher and I are both just wanting to know what sort of criteria are being used to determine this award? I also see the frustration with this award.
First, I have been reporting the same three stations for over a week now and only one time have I seen my name on the list and then I disappeared even though not one else appeared to have increased. I really find it puzzling when the last price reported most times was reported by myself.
Second, does someone who flies down the road reporting only the regular unleaded price get the same value for reporting verses someone that takes the time to pull in and report all available prices? Ok, let me clarify that. If John drives by and reports one price for 10 days, and Sue drives by and reports all prices for 10 days, which one should actually be classified the Top Spotter?

I would like to see my awards available online, not just on our phone app. Why couldn't they be viewed under "My Points Stats"?
On another Topic
CampKohler makes a good point also: most live in metropolitan areas where there are a dozen ways to get somewhere with about the same trip length.

I am a perfect example. There are about three or four different routes that I can take to work that are all about the same distance. Until recently, I have been checking my favorites to see what stations have not been reported in the last two days and trying to report those to give everyone the greatest number of choices.
One day of the week, I travel a different highway, there are about a dozen or more stations on this 5-10 stretch of road. I am going to pass all of them, so I can pick and choose which one or two I am going to report.

What would be wrong with giving people an incentive for reporting stations that haven't been reported. 5 or 10 points wouldn't be a big deal. Or HEY! make another award!! The "Reporting Non-reported Station" award. (This last paragraph is somewhat serious, but more sarcastic than not.)

I do report to be helpful to others, not just to earn points or awards. However, when you do go the extra mile to do a good job, it is nice to SEE the recognition, no matter how small. After all, the likelihood that I am going to win the gas cards is extremely small.
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RichWLIN
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,196
Points:971,455
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 8:15:20 AM

Scrapheap said: "Also the number of grades of fuel is counted. This is another encouragement for people to report prices for fuel a station does not sell."

Figures. This amounts to another bite at the apple; a new incentive for members who have maxed out the "Perfectionist" award. Seems that the only lesson learned from the app awards is that members will continue to play the game.

RG
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,284
Points:2,690,325
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 7:28:00 AM

Apparently they have been tracking this for quite some time, but only the last 30 days count for the top spotter championship cup. Also the number of grades of fuel is counted. This is another encouragement for people to report prices for fuel a station does not sell.

Yet another waste of effort that could have gone to actual improvements. This was probably chosen over real improvements to increase revenue.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 1/10/2013 7:32:02 AM EST]
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RichWLIN
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:6,196
Points:971,455
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:34:36 AM

The new "top spotter" modification to the app doesn't even make much sense. I wouldn't give it much credence. It's another case of the app programmer trying to make an incentive game of reporting prices.

This time of year, I routinely pass 4 stations twice a day. I've been posting prices for those stations every day for over two months, and my handle now appears in various places throughout the "top spotter" list; sometimes at the top and other times down the list. At one of these stations I am reported as being "champ for 76 days" while the number at the right is 29 days? Another station 1/4 mile away says "champ for 75 days" and 30 days at the right of this?

Of course, none of this makes much sense just like some of the ridiculous app award criteria that's still in use for a second year. My advice LCresearcher would be to just ignore this feature and forget about trying to bring fairness to an incentive game that probably only makes sense to the puzzle-maker who came up with it.

RG
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

Posts:726
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 1:06:21 AM

In the original post LCresearcher wrote: "I like knowing who is posting prices for a particular station and how frequently those users post ..."

Unfortunately, the "location's top spotters" list does not really tell you how frequently users post prices for the station, because the list ignores many posts. Posts made through "find gas near me" in the app are definitely counted, but posts made through "favorites" in the app are definitely NOT counted. It is not clear to me whether posts made through the various different methods on the web site are counted or not. I've observed that some members post particular stations a lot, but they do not appear on the top spotters lists for those stations at all.



[Edited by: DavisSta at 1/10/2013 1:07:44 AM EST]
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,117
Points:632,335
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 7:22:16 PM

kwzh - "MGS6, plenty of people already abuse the system merely to hold onto the speed lines... I'd be happy to get rid of that feature entirely, myself. Having points associated with it would make things worse, not better, in my opinion."

An island of sanity.
I tend to agree but less than the APPS awards. And get rid of the APPS games completely ;-) while at it.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 3:52:41 PM

MGS6, plenty of people already abuse the system merely to hold onto the speed lines... I'd be happy to get rid of that feature entirely, myself. Having points associated with it would make things worse, not better, in my opinion.
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MGS6
Champion Author Montreal

Posts:4,725
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 7:31:05 AM

Speaking of warm and fuzzy (see Scoutmaster's post, 2nd from bottom), what about the complete lack of recognition for achieving 90 days of consecutive posting, other than having 5 little lines added to the back of one's car? I have suggested before, without response, that there be some sort of bonus system. Double points when posting after reaching 90 days perhaps?
As it stands, nothing changes so there is very little incentive to go out of one's way to not miss a day.

[Edited by: MGS6 at 1/4/2013 7:32:49 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:91,085
Points:3,586,470
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 7:05:15 AM

"Multiple postings on the same day would only count if the price changed."

So if I post a station and then you post it with the same price 1 minute later you don't get credit for the post? How does that encourage posting prices?

"2. The idea of awarding bonus points for blank or aged prices is a good one. Members should be encouraged to alter their travel routes to pick up stations with outdated prices."

Why should I get more points for post a price for a station that hasn't been posted in a week than you get for posting a price for a station that was posted yesterday? That makes no sense! Members should be encouraged to post accurate prices, not to alter their route to post more prices. Accurate prices is what make this site credible.

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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,117
Points:632,335
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 8:25:20 PM

I say get rid of the APPS awards all together. Your changes would encourage even more false postings.

Heck - get rid of all points would be fine with me.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:11,499
Points:1,840,355
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:04:46 PM

GB: Changing a route to pick up certain stations may not require any mileage increase whatsoever. Suppose a member would normally travel two blocks up and four blocks over to get to your destination. If, all else being equal, he could get a few more points by going four blocks over and two blocks up instead, would that meet with your approval?

I suppose some members live in areas where the routes are limited by geography or road sparsity, but most live in metropolitan areas where there are a dozen ways to get somewhere with about the same trip length.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:28,528
Points:3,365,975
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 2:25:21 PM

"...I suggest that Champ be based on a multi-part formula, with one point awarded for each grade posted per day, 10 points for each grade where the previous price was different or blank"

So you're suggesting that people not get credit for updating prices that remain the same, and continuing a price's visibility, but only getting credit if they're the first to see that a price changed? If I got that right, then what I should be doing, in order to get points, would be to post a false but close price, and then shortly afterwards update the price correctly, thereby getting two sets of points. And if anyone says "you posted a wrong price...", my response should be (though you're not saying this) "Sorry, but I hit a 3 instead of a 4; but when I saw my mistake I corrected it."

Do I have that right?

You say:
"Multiple postings on the same day would only count if the price changed. This type of formula would recognize those posters who provide new (and hopefully accurate) prices."

So you're saying you don't want me to keep prices current; you only want me to stand around (in order to get points) waiting for prices to change and hurry to post so I (and not someone else) gets points for the gas price.

Do I have that right?

Seems like the suggestion is a heckuva lot of figuring out.

As for CampKohler's suggestion, "Members should be encouraged to alter their travel routes to pick up stations with outdated prices."

Sorry, but no. Members should not be encouraged to alter their travel routes simply to "pick up stations with outdated prices." Members should not be encouraged to drive out of their way simply to find gas prices to post, nor should they be encouraged to use gas (money and time) for no reason (and to update "outdated prices" is not a valid reason, in my opinion). We keep saying people should conserve; people should not waste gas; but then we're (or at least CampKohler is) suggesting people drive more than they need to in order to update prices?

There's usually a reason that prices are not updated, or "outdated" if you will, and it's because few Gas Buddy members are driving in those neighborhoods or in those areas. If you want those prices posted, encourage others to post for their areas; encourage others to post more frequently, and more completely. Don't, for heaven's sake, encourage people to drive out of their way simply to update fuel prices, even if they can get points for their price posts. Better to have fewer points than to waste gas and money to get those points.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:91,085
Points:3,586,470
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 6:34:43 AM

What does being recognized as a top spotter mean? Absolutely nothing except it gives you a warm fuzzy!
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:11,499
Points:1,840,355
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:31:55 AM

This suggestion has been added to the Suggestion Tracking List as a new topic on existing subjects.

1. Changing the points earned per price from 150 to 1 or 10 would be a radical change, to say the least. I will leave this to others to discuss.

2. The idea of awarding bonus points for blank or aged prices is a good one. Members should be encouraged to alter their travel routes to pick up stations with outdated prices.

3. Checking grades reported against the station features in the MSL is not currently done as we all know, but if it will be (as has been recently promised) then improper reporting will be blocked. There could be no punishment if the crime could not be committed.

4. Multiple reportings of the same station on the same day should not be discouraged. Say you pass a station on the way to a destination and pass it again on the way back. Should the prices not be updated? The Time Spotted is a valuable component of prices in users' minds.
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