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Author Topic: Why would anyone pay CASH for anything?????????????? Back to Topics
wamps

Champion Author
Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2007 11:02:50 AM

Get with the program and start saving with rebate's on a credit card.
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BayleeBuggy
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Jul 29, 2014 11:38:55 AM

I took a lawnmower to get repaired, and the place has the policy of cash or cheque only. That's a bit of a surprise, since so many businesses refuse to take cheques. I think I will write one, since I haven't done that in so long!
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2014 10:25:22 PM

Got $23.82 in rebates on my Chase AARP VISA (3% rebate on restaurants, 3% rebates on gasoline, 1% rebate on everything else).
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:35:49 AM

My extreme couponer friend? She's carried through with everything she said she would do so far, so she made an offer to THOROUGHLY clean and sort my apartment for $495 (the down payment on her new Kia Rio).

I'm an extreme credit card rebater, so I took advantage of my new Capital One Quicksilver Cash Rewards credit card. Got a 1.5% rebate on the $495.00 I contributed to the new car project.

Also, because I get a bonus $100 rebate for making $500 in purchases in the first three months, the great majority of that has already been run up. (Charged lunch to the card yesterday, that takes care of the rest.)

And because the card has an introductory 0% rate through April 2015, I'll have a while to pay it off.
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gasfrugal
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2014 8:53:39 AM

Yup - I know its actually a cash "discount" because the CC agreements do not allow a credit surcharge. Symantec difference - but the net effect is the same - you pay 10~25 cents a gallon more using a credit card in some states
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2014 7:04:59 AM

On Jul 11, 2014 12:59:03 PM, gasfrugal wrote:

>Sneakers - I have not kept up with all the changing rebate programs,
>however, still using "Quicksilver" And Cit card with rotating categories.

I'm an extreme credit card rebater. I'm going grocery shopping with an extreme couponer later today.

I have a symbiotic relationship with this person: she was between jobs (she started a job Thursday) and she's been helping me hack through the accumulated hoarding. I think the main thing we're going to be doing today is grocery shopping and hauling a batch of stuff to either the Salvation Army or Goodwill. (My perception is that Goodwill around here gets a lot more electronics than the Salvation Army.) Finally, my shoe hoarding will be cut down to what I can get into both bedroom closets! My Mom said once that I had enough sneakers to last until I was 500 but everything but Chucks now use EVA foam and they disintegrate in about a dozen years. I was wearing a pair of 2001 Nikes that disintegrated on me while I was wearing them!

>I am not a fan of Chase - its personal.

There are a lot of banks out there. I'm not a fan of Bank of America. I used to have a co-worker who described the Fourth National Bank of Wichita as the "Bank of America of Kansas." He did not mean it as a positive statement. IIRC, the Fourth was eventually acquired by Bank of America.

>So I am only averaging in total 2.25%, no fees, no interest, and its
>"new found money". If the merchant is willing to accept it at no
>surcharge - why not!

Merchants have to accept credit cards with no surcharge in ten states, and some of them are biggies. Fortunately for me, Texas is one of them.

Texas also has the regulation that if you have a credit card issued by your franchisor, they are not allowed to charge a merchant discount. So, you've got stations that accept their franchisor's credit card for the same price as cash. This is most widely practiced by Conoco and Valero stations.

>I had to switch to cash for gas, because locally they are adding
>10~25 cents a gallon for credit ...

They're actually subtracting 10-25 cents a gallon for cash. You may say "it's all semantics" but that's the way the Merchant Operating Regulations for credit cards are written.

Around here, a lot of the gas stations take off money for paying with their gift cards (which they will sell you for cash, but if you look around you can find places that will sell you gift cards and let you pay with a credit card for them). At Christmas last year, I bought myself four $10 iTunes gift cards from Kroger. They were on sale for $34, but since I got another 6% off with my American Express Blue Cash Preferred they cost me $31.96 all in. And you don't have to get music or videos to use an iTunes gift card. It's all one big bucket of money for anything Apple sells via digital download.

Around here, about half of the stations who offer a discount for cash cost too much for cash and way too much for credit. I think they sucker in the people who aren't paying attention.
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gasfrugal
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2014 1:59:03 PM

Sneakers - I have not kept up with all the changing rebate programs, however, still using "Quicksilver" And Cit card with rotating categories. Like you mentioned it seems that the 5% is usually something I am spending on anyway. I am not a fan of Chase - its personal. So I am only averaging in total 2.25%, no fees, no interest, and its "new found money". If the merchant is willing to accept it at no surcharge - why not! I had to switch to cash for gas, because locally they are adding 10~25 cents a gallon for credit ...

Happy rebating...
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jul 4, 2014 11:48:30 AM

I'm writing this out because I'm planning to prune down my credit cards as FICO says I have too many. This is what I'll likely keep and why: I'm an extreme credit card rebater and only rarely a revolver.

The Quicksilver (1.5% rebate) will be the default card to buy what I can't get a higher rebate from using another card:

I"ve got the American Express Blue Cash Preferred ($75 annual fee). But the 6% rebate for the first $6000 in annual stand-alone supermarket purchases will get you back $360 a year. There are a lot of potential purchases you can make at grocery stores even if you don't buy $6000 in food. You can buy all sorts of gift cards at a grocery store and they, too, get the 6% rebate. It also does 3% for selected traditional department stores (no limit), 3% on gas station purchases (no limit), and the pretty-much standard 1% on everything else.

I've got the CHASE AARP VISA (no annual fee beyond being an AARP member). But it offers 3% off at restaurants and 3% at gas stations.

I've got a CHASE FREEDOM VISA with rotating 5% categories. Almost all the time, they have a rotating category I can use.

I've got a State Farm VISA with a single-digit rates on purchases over $500 you feel you have to revolve and the capability to spread an insurance payment over $200 for six months at 2.99% APR. Also, you get a 1% rebate on everything you put on it. The worst thing about it is that it only has a $3000 credit limit so you can't revolve too much on it. Probably the reason it's so low is that I applied for it between the time I was laid off and the time my pension kicked in.

I've got a Target VISA that I don't use as much since they changed their rebate structure from 1% off everywhere to 5% off at Target and no rebate elsewhere.

I think I'll keep my Discover Card and my Citibank Dividend Card MasterCard as one of the factors FICO looks at is the oldest accounts you have and they're the oldest by far along with the Target VISA, I started out with a Target store card when I first bought Dayton Hudson stock in May 1999 then they switched it to a VISA card. You can't get a new Target VISA any more, but they grandfathered in the existing cardholders.

There's another three cards that I can't justify keeping although with one of them it's tied to a checking account I only rarely use. I will probably move my safe deposit box to my main checking account bank (Chase) at the same time. Who REALLY needs three checking accounts? Need to prune down the checking accounts, too. One is local, and the other one is owned by my broker. I like it because of its extensive surcharge-free ATM network.


[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 7/4/2014 11:56:19 AM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jul 3, 2014 12:33:11 PM

Looked at last month's spending on my American Express card (3% rebates at gas stations, the most I could get from a card in 2Q 2014). Bought plenty of gas (Kansas City to Houston vacation, also a lot of driving around here).

Did a lot of driving Monday. Picked up my BFF and went to the bank in the morning. Went to Pasadena, Texas to donate blood in the afternoon. The nearest neighborhood blood donor center, in the Clear Lake area of Houston, has all their phlebotomists not wanting to take me again as all of them failed at least once.

Capital One turned me down for a Quicksilver VISA (1.5% unlimited rebate, the most I've seen as a general rebate percentage) about a year ago because I had too many recent credit inquiries. I let my recent inquiries age out and waited for them to start sending me marketing materials to apply for a card. I applied on-line this morning and they accepted me with a $10,000 credit limit! Now, not to max it out! It's two and a half months after-tax income for me. All I'll say is you don't want to revolve on that card, it has an interest rate of 22.9%. I have one card with 11.24% interest and two with 11.25% interest.


[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 7/3/2014 12:36:03 PM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2014 10:17:05 PM

Another two hours and forty-five minutes to 3Q 2014. There's 5% rebates for Chase FREEDOM and Discover Card for purchases at gas stations. Most of the stations around here that do a discount for cash overcharge for either method of payment.
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BayleeBuggy
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2014 11:06:51 AM

Yet another bonus from paying cash -- over the weekend I got a half-hour shiazu massage for $5 - a special promotion. It was lovely, and the guy did not have a charge machine with him. He probably does use it at his home base, but not where we were. So without cash I would have missed out big time.
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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2014 1:30:01 PM

recently found out/noticed Discover card's first $3k purchase of the year (based on sign-up date) is only 0.1% and not 1%.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 28, 2014 6:27:48 AM

Used "Pay With Rewards Points" to buy Dierck Bentley's "Home" CD. Another $8.65 of tax-free rebates!
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2014 2:03:04 PM

If you live in an area where Exxon or Mobil have gas stations and you have an American Express card, they are offering $5 off a $30 fuel purchase at either Exxon or Mobil. You have to register for the offer on the AmEx Web site and pay at the pump with your registered American Express card.

I took advantage of a similar offer last month when I was on vacation, except it was at BP. No BP stations here, but there were at my destination.


[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 6/13/2014 2:04:40 PM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 29, 2014 4:14:49 PM

Got $50 in rebates with my Citibank Dividend Card MasterCard.

Got $25 in rebates with my American Express Blue Cash Preferred card.

Used "Pay With Rewards Points" to get Head East - 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection from amazon.com. Featuring the vocals of John Schlitt back in his secular music and drug doing days before he became a Christian and joined Petra.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 17, 2014 10:57:59 PM

On May 14, 2014 8:43:16 PM, Toadman7 wrote:

>Because studies how that you spend less using cash
>then you do using credit cards.

I don't think I do, and using credit cards is much more convenient and has much higher consumer protections.

Try doing a chargeback using cash.

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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: May 14, 2014 11:41:10 PM

Oh no ... really no difference:) We have to dish it out when they call our name:)
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Toadman7
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: May 14, 2014 9:43:16 PM

Because studies how that you spend less using cash then you do using credit cards.
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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: May 14, 2014 7:41:15 PM

interesting article...
Fed study spells out importance of cash to consumers
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/articles/the-fed-cash-plays-a-key-roll-in-consumer-spending/



[Edited by: gas_phil at 5/14/2014 7:41:51 PM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 14, 2014 3:53:56 PM

If you live in an area where BP has gas stations and you have an American Express card, they are offering $5 off a $30 purchase at BP. You have to register for the offer on the AmEx Web site. No BP stations in Houston, but plenty in the Kansas City area where I'm on vacation.

I needed to buy some gas (having bought the last tank on the road in Arkansas) and so I went to BP. It was a penny a gallon higher than Phillips 66 and QuikTrip, but then I had the offer to use. (And the QuikTrip had only recently changed their price, the previous GasBuddy had reported the same price they had at BP and there was no recent price from the 66.)

By the time I got back to Mom's house and sat down at the laptop, I had an E-mail from American Express thanking me for taking advantage of the BP offer!
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 14, 2014 3:44:46 PM

On May 5, 2014 5:23:15 AM, cltncguy wrote:

>ALSO, let your card be lost or stolen..

I have enough cards that having one go astray isn't that much of an issue. I had my American Express Card go astray because my BFF wanted to buy something with it and she lost it in the Escape.

I contacted American Express and told them my card was damaged because I didn't want to learn a new account number. Got my new card, then I found the old one in the Escape. They did give me a new expiration date two years in the future from the old card.

The only thing I missed the card for was I wanted to go grocery shopping and I had to use one of my other credit cards (one that only pays a 1% rebate, instead of the 6% rebate AmEx does) to buy about $150 of groceries. Those 6% rebates add up when you're buying $150 of groceries!

>Good luck the next 3-5 business days eating!!

If I lost my entire wallet, I'd be totally sunk. Fortunately, when I misplace it, it's invariably stuck between the driver and passenger seats in the Escape.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 7, 2014 1:31:11 AM

On May 5, 2014 5:23:15 AM, cltncguy wrote:

>drug dealers don't have credit card processing machines....

As if obtaining illegal drugs is a reason not to have credit cards. Pharmacies take credit cards...
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cltncguy
Champion Author Charlotte

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Message Posted: May 5, 2014 6:23:15 AM

drug dealers don't have credit card processing machines.... ALSO, let your card be lost or stolen.. Good luck the next 3-5 business days eating!!
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ncclyde
Champion Author Charlotte

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Message Posted: May 5, 2014 5:26:24 AM

Cash is great to pay entrance fees where there is no other option, or to purchase a cold drink from a vendor, or to give to the hungry person on the corner, or to pass along to a friend who's currently unemployed, or to purchase my next car, or to pick up s few pre-1965 silver coins from the jewelry shop around the corner, or to get my coffee & biscuit on Friday morning.
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Alexi7
All-Star Author Ohio

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Message Posted: May 4, 2014 11:00:19 PM

Been using my Discover Card since 1986. Never had an annual fee and I've probably raked in a few thousand dollars in cash back awards. That said, I use cash at all Mom 'n Pop stores. My wife is a small business owner and reminds me how much she pays per month in credit card fees.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: May 3, 2014 3:19:39 AM

Been buying my groceries (6% rebate on the first $6000 annually) on my American Express Blue Cash Preferred card. Been buying my gasoline (3% rebate on all amounts) on my American Express Blue Cash Preferred card. Paid $75 as an annual fee for the card. Got $75 of rebates just for the month of April. IIRC, I have gotten a minimum of $25 every month this year.
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deant99
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 8:42:15 PM

been using a debit card for years, now that I'm a geezer I don't pay bank fees anymore
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2014 8:31:17 PM

Picked up the debit card Friday the 11th of April.

The bank even extended the expiration date out in the future.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2014 10:17:22 PM

Another comment about the debit card: I used it at a total of four places but three of them were locations of the same merchant. Turned out the one merchant was recently in the local news as having a data compromise. Once I knew the card compromised was my debit card and not my credit card. I have one of each at that particular bank, but it wasn't clear to me at first which one to watch, so I watched both of them.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2014 5:38:54 PM

Latest story on the replacement debit card that my bank was going to send me: Many days, no replacement card. I was out running errands this afternoon in light mist, ending up with Chick-fil-A. I hadn't had Chick-fil-A because the nearest one to me was torn down, and I didn't feel like braving the mall crowd to go to the one in the nearest mall. The light mist was getting heavier, and I thought it was a good thing that I didn't go out to eat.

The bank had in their records that they mailed me the debit card long enough ago that I should have gotten it a while back. So, they decided this time they're going to send it to the bank and have me pick it up in person. I have something weird about my snail mail. Sometimes, I have missing mail (but I have a ton of it that seems to come through) and when I go on vacation they somehow fail to realize that I've filed a vacation hold.
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playtimeCLE
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2014 6:55:10 PM

Why would anyone ask such a question? Not everyone lives your life!
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BayleeBuggy
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2014 2:50:16 PM

I'm a bit behind time, but I'm sorry to hear about olefin. Thanks for posting that here.

My newest good reason for paying cash is lineups at registers -- the last time I was in one very busy store they opened up an extra register for those of us paying cash. So I finished long before those ahead of me in the original line - yay!
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nichols
Champion Author Halifax

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2014 9:20:26 AM

use both, depending on if the discount for cash is better then the card reward
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2014 12:56:10 AM

I have a credit card that generates a rebate every time you have charged $5000 on it. The first time you do it in a year, you get $50. The second time, you get $52.50. The third time, you get $55.00. The fourth time, you get $57.50. The fifth and subsequent time, you get $60. I just got $50 on that particular card.
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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Mar 7, 2014 6:44:16 PM

Nothing wrong using a credit card unless some counselor said to stay away from all credit cards. Bottom line is we have to pay in full every month and not carry a balance. It doesn't matter how big or small the bill is - just cringe for a second and then hit the pay full amount button. The 1% to 5% cashback is just a silly game that people here enjoy playing along.

The Discover Card people noticed I haven't use their card in a long time since I jumped-ship to another brand/card that gives away lots of good stuff. They emailed me an extra/bonus $500 cashback offer if I return to use it for a certain minimum x amount each month from this April thru Sept (payout at the end of 6 months). So I clicked on it to sign up in the account/website.
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Toadman7
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Mar 7, 2014 2:57:07 PM

I haven't heard of a lot of people (credit card users) becoming wealthy while using credit or worshiping at the Temple of the FICO.

We use debit cards and cash for everything, have not used a credit card in a couple years.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Mar 7, 2014 2:18:46 PM

On Mar 5, 2014 5:01:06 PM, Deno wrote from Pittsburgh:

>Rebates? Small merchants can & do legally add up to 5% surcharges for card transactions.

Not in all states. Ten states (California, Florida, and Texas among them) do not allow surcharges for credit. Around here, they are allowed to do a discount for the store credit card or the store stored-value card.

>Someone pays, and small merchants were tired of paying for your perks.

Then again, some stores choose not to pass along the savings on the merchant fee (no merchant discount allowed on the store credit card in Texas) on to the customer.

>Actually, it's legal for any merchant, oil companies add 10-15 ¢/gal to cover your card
>purchase.

IMHO, merchants get a value for that swipe fee.
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Deno
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 6:01:06 PM

Rebates? Small merchants can & do legally add up to 5% surcharges for card transactions. Someone pays, and small merchants were tired of paying for your perks. Actually, it's legal for any merchant, oil companies add 10-15 ¢/gal to cover your card purchase. They don't eat the costs, we all do.
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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 4:44:54 PM

big news of the day is... Target's CIO quit...
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2014 12:15:08 AM

Got a robocall from one of my VISA cards. It reported that my card had been compromised and they wanted me to keep an eye on what is being purchased on it. (Nothing unusual.) They are going to send me a new card, and when I activate it the old card will be deactivated automatically. They stressed that I have Zero Liability no matter what.

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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2014 8:14:50 PM

the Discover card guys now advertise free FICO score with the account. So I logged in there to see and it was a very nice/good surprise!
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 12:47:46 PM

Spent a chunk on my American Express Blue Cash Preferred for January and February, had to pay my rent and then some on the card. My apartment management wanted a payment an amount in arrears in full and when I went into their system all I could pay was the amount they wanted and February's rent. Didn't have enough in my checking account to pay the amount they were due. I paid the amount due with my American Express card. Had enough charges for the amount to get $75.00 in rebates.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 12:50:14 AM

I just got David Crosby's "Croz," his new 2014 project. I got it from amazon.com (I took the AutoRip option) so I can listen to it now and get the physical CD as a backup to the MP3 files. I used $5.91 of Chase Freedom VISA rewards points to partly pay for it. And I put the balance on the same card where I get a 1% rebate. I've had times on amazon.com where I only had to pay $0.01 with a credit card.



[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 2/24/2014 12:51:33 AM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 12:41:16 AM

I was out running around with my BFF and my BFF's Mom on a shopping expedition to the Texas City outlet mall yesterday. We were celebrating my BFF's spending 31 days without a drop to drink (it's up to 32 days now) and I said I'd buy her a pair of running shoes to celebrate that she's been sober for that long and to get back her former cheerleader body. Right now, she looks like she's pregnant. I needed to pay for my lunch and to gas up my Escape. Both times we stopped, I went digging through my wallet to figure out what card would get me the maximum rebate!

My BFF's Mom aborted the trip when she decided I was too tired to drive and we turned around and headed home. Thursday, we're going to try it again. My BFF has to go to the doctor in Galveston Thursday, so my BFF's mom is taking her. We'll go back by the Texas City outlet mall on the way home.


[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 2/24/2014 12:45:58 AM EST]
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2014 8:11:01 PM

If you haven't heard the news, OLEFIN passed away from a massive heart attack on Valentine's Day.

Wondering... is Betty (aka "Mrs. OLEFIN") is as much an extreme rebater as her late husband was?

More details are available in the "In Memoriam" section.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2014 8:05:29 PM

On Feb 17, 2014 1:56:07 PM, jagunter1975 wrote:

>Using cash means no one tracks what you buy.

To a very limited extent. They can't tell you made a purchase of paper towels, orange juice, or highly needed clozapine.

On the other hand, there is a system that tracks purchases of clozapine. It has nothing to do with how you pay. It has everything to do with the fact that clozapine is such a desperate, last-resort drug (with such life-threatening side effects) that the FDA requires that patients who take it have to have regular and frequent blood tests.


[Edited by: Sneakers55 at 2/17/2014 8:10:15 PM EST]
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jagunter1975
Champion Author Austin

Posts:1,815
Points:218,835
Joined:Dec 2013
Message Posted: Feb 17, 2014 2:56:07 PM

Using cash means no one tracks what you buy.
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gasfrugal
Champion Author New York

Posts:42,656
Points:2,173,630
Joined:Sep 2003
Message Posted: Feb 9, 2014 6:10:21 PM

Congratulations Sneakers.... and everything you said ....
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gas_phil
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:6,190
Points:558,895
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Feb 9, 2014 1:38:14 AM

my new/recent pet spa-shop takes cash only.
they probably had too many issues with other type of payments.
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olefin
Champion Author Arkansas

Posts:7,730
Points:988,740
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Feb 8, 2014 10:14:15 AM

If below $25 at some places, it's only a swipe, no signature required.

Any don't forget "Double manufacturers warranty up to one year."

Back before CC days I always hated pocket change.

This year will be big for cash backs, 2 cruises & weeks rent for an ocean front home near Galveston for a family vacation. :)
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

Posts:60,774
Points:2,547,260
Joined:Nov 2005
Message Posted: Feb 7, 2014 6:53:47 PM

On Feb 7, 2014 5:42:58 PM, olefin wrote:

>Today got email from one of our credit card Banks saying:
>"It’s been 7 years and $4,397.24 in cash back rewards* since you opened your account."
>Had I not used that credit card and used CASH, I would have received ZERO dollars!
>Besides all the other great advantages of using credit cards.

Swipe and sign, that's it.

No possibility of getting counterfeit money.

No change. No counting out change. No waiting for the cashier to count out change. No nuisances associated with change.

>BTW, have never paid a penny in fees or interest charges to any credit card company.

I have an American Express Blue Cash Preferred card. Annual fee of $75. Rebates of $800 in 2012. Spent less in 2013, only $375 in rebates.
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