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Author Topic: Is the Volt dead? Back to Topics
Shockjock1961

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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 3:49:40 PM

As the Volt sales number drops below both the Tesla Model S and the Nissan Leaf while continuing to loose even money for GM, is it proving itself to be a dead end product?
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CoolPriusGuy
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 11:10:01 PM

2016 Chevy Volt Range-Extending Engine To Have 75 HP?

“The 2016 Chevrolet Volt is expected to downsize to a three-cylinder unit to boost efficiency, but few other details are known--apart from perhaps its power output.”

“General Motors has announced the latest round of investment for a new engine lineup, and among the details are news 1.0 to 1.5-liter, three and four-cylinder engines, with power outputs starting at 75 horsepower.”

Courtesy of: Autos.yahoo.com
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CoolPriusGuy
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 10:57:56 PM

“Yes, there will be another one: General Motors said this past week that an all-new version of the Chevrolet Volt will be revealed at the North American International Auto Show in January.”

“Sales of the current Volt have fallen far short of the expectations set by GM executives when the car was first launched. They've never once come close to the 45,000 Volts a year that former GM CEO Dan Akerson famously predicted.”

“But GM apparently thinks that the Volt has done well enough to deserve an encore.”

Fool.com..Link
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 7:04:07 PM

"GM seems to lack good business sense. Hence the bankruptcy..."

There is some truth there - they relied far too much on truck and SUV sales while largely ignoring the midsize and compact segments for years with bland, lazy engineering.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 7:02:38 PM

"Weaslespit: "Any thread that I have posted in that comes up months later gets the same reaction from me... But that doesn't fit in your narrative, does it."

You jumping on a late commenter when you want the thread dead, rather than waiting for the moderators to do their thing (which they do), fits the narrative exactly."

I'm not sure why, but your feelings seem hurt. I do encourage you however to get over it and continue to try to post on the topic at hand, rather than continuing your attacks against myself... ;)

Unfortunately for you I am not detfan, so no amount of pointless, lowbrow attacks will elicit and emotional response from myself.

Have a great holiday weekend!
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 12:59:43 PM

GM seems to lack good business sense. Hence the bankruptcy...
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 11:24:40 AM

GM must figure the volt is dead, so I guess that is why they have started shipping the 2015 volts to dealers, and figure on the 2016 showcasing in January, at the Auto Show.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 4:37:35 PM

Weaslespit: "Any thread that I have posted in that comes up months later gets the same reaction from me... But that doesn't fit in your narrative, does it."

You jumping on a late commenter when you want the thread dead, rather than waiting for the moderators to do their thing (which they do), fits the narrative exactly.
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FieroGT
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 3:10:07 PM

It sure looks like the Volt is dead. Too small for too much money. GM was too dumb to recognize the obvious.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 2:36:07 PM

"Yeah, right. Somebody comes along and unwittingly bumps a thread unflattering to a GM product, a thread that you wanted to see dead and you're on him in a flash."

Any thread that I have posted in that comes up months later gets the same reaction from me... But that doesn't fit in your narrative, does it.

"You can try to keep fooling yourself but don't bother trying to fool the rest of us."

So much drama...
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badbobKY
Veteran Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 10:56:32 AM

yes
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 10:27:29 AM

Weaslespit: "No zeal involved in politely asking somebody to follow the forum guidelines that they might not have known about."

Yeah, right. Somebody comes along and unwittingly bumps a thread unflattering to a GM product, a thread that you wanted to see dead and you're on him in a flash. Other GM Fanbois commit verbal assault and serial copyright violation and you ignore their behavior.

You can try to keep fooling yourself but don't bother trying to fool the rest of us.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 1:19:05 PM

"Oh, did someone "hate" on your whiteboard? Or did someone suggest that there's some inconsistency in your zeal for prosecuting certain crimes against GasBuddy and ignoring others?"

No zeal involved in politely asking somebody to follow the forum guidelines that they might not have known about. The zeal in prosecution (persecution?), OTOH, came from somebody trying to 'fight somebody else's fight' (not sure why it was necessary, but I guess haters gonna hate).

Too much drama...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 1:11:54 PM

Weaslespit,

Oh, did someone "hate" on your whiteboard? Or did someone suggest that there's some inconsistency in your zeal for prosecuting certain crimes against GasBuddy and ignoring others?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:55:08 PM

And GM Zealots and shills are going to spin... ;)
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:44:25 PM

"Only in the Bizarro world of the GM FanBoi, where facts are "hate," is history "basless conjecture.""

Haters gonna hate. Just look at my whiteboard ;) All because I politely asked a newbie poster to not bump old/inactive topics...

SMH
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:39:41 PM

Weaslespit: "More baseless conjecture. Par for the course!"

Only in the Bizarro world of the GM FanBoi, where facts are "hate," is history "basless conjecture."
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:20:29 PM

"As did all of detfan's... but you didn't seem to mind his rosy assertions, which universally favored GM, all that much. Strange, that."

More baseless conjecture. Par for the course!
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:16:57 PM

SoylentGrain: "Your constant claims of profit and loss come directly out of your keister."

Weaslespit: "As do most of charlie's assertions."

As did all of detfan's... but you didn't seem to mind his rosy assertions, which universally favored GM, all that much. Strange, that.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:14:46 PM

SoylentGrain: "What it actually costs GM to produce a car is information GM would highly guard."

It would surprise me to learn that GM lost money on the Corvette. It wouldn't surprise me much, mind you. I mean, look at the history of GM.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 11:28:03 AM

"That award goes detfan's "GM, The Leader in Alternative Propulsion Solutions" which started out as complete nonsense and died when detfan gave up his defense of the indefensible."

A lesson you appear to have yet to learn...

"Your constant claims of profit and loss come directly out of your keister."

As do most of charlie's assertions. All we can do is show him his error - we can't make him accept the reality of them.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:49:13 AM

.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 8/27/2014 10:50:43 AM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:43:25 AM

"The Corvette is a low-volume, high-margin product that is developed and produced appropriately."

What it actually costs GM to produce a car is information GM would highly guard. Your constant claims of profit and loss come directly out of your keister. With the exception of a few internal employees, very few people know how GM or any other car company, for that matter, accounts for cost of production.

The real answer is you don't know. It's a pointless exercise to speculate or guess.

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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:42:50 AM

"This thread has to take the award for containing the most absolute nonsense posted in a single "discussion""

The comparison of the Corvette to a Volt being one of the biggest offenders...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:41:22 AM

"The Corvette is a low-volume, high-margin product that is developed and produced appropriately"

Wow, anybody who compares the Corvette to a the Volt as a measure of success has no conception of the meaning of an apples to oranges comparison...
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:11:52 AM

rkt_wgn: "Your are totally wrong on prices, and mileage. I will try one last time..."

Do you promise?

"... to explain to you what I paid for one of the cars."

Between charity from the taxpayers and desperation givebacks from GM, you didn't pay MSRP. You didn't pay anywhere near MSRP. But, so what? That's the MSRP that GM ended up bringing the car to market for. That's not even what it costs, "We lose money on every one - Akerson."

Even with unheard of levels of taxpayer charity, these things hardly move off lots. GM couldn't engineer the Volt to match their "50/50/600, nicely under $30K" brag. Even missing the price by $11K, they still couldn't hit the engineering marks they set for themselves.

The bottom line here is that El Lutzbo threw a hissy fit over Tesla, when he should have been watching and learning from Toyota and he bullied the rest of GM into producing an over-priced, underwhelming, taxpayer-supported loser that provides GM no profit and no strategic advantage.

It is entirely possible that some people, who manage to use the Volt electrically almost all the time, can "save money," which is just lovely for them but these savings are fuelled by taxpayer support and not due to GM's excellence in automaking, so there's little reason to praise GM for this turkey.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:02:08 AM

SoylentGrain: "Yeah, and the Chevrolet doesn't sell many Corvette units, as well. Is that another unsuccessful GM product line?"

The Corvette is a low-volume, high-margin product that is developed and produced appropriately.

SoylentGrain: "This thread has to take the award for containing the most absolute nonsense posted in a single "discussion"."

Not even close. That award goes detfan's "GM, The Leader in Alternative Propulsion Solutions" which started out as complete nonsense and died when detfan gave up his defense of the indefensible.

My favorite response in that thread was contributed by probedude: "GM, The Leader in Self-Congratulatory PR Statements."

Runner up for most absolute nonsense would be another thread started by detfan, "Why are some Import supporters so hateful?" That thread was notable for detfan whining about posters, such as myself, posting unpleasant facts and ignoring the invective he was spewing elsewhere. Sadly, that thread didn't come to my notice until it had died, or I would have been happy to contribute.
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SoylentGrain
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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:49:36 AM

"That's the point. Even with these huge "incentives" these cars sell in miniscule numbers...

Definitely not the definition of a successful line... "

Yeah, and the Chevrolet doesn't sell many Corvette units, as well. Is that another unsuccessful GM product line? This thread has to take the award for containing the most absolute nonsense posted in a single "discussion".

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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:12:18 AM

Yes we know RW, the you got a huge handout from the taxpayer, and the dealer came you a steep discount selling you a car that they sell at a loss at even a bigger loss...

That's the point. Even with these huge "incentives" these cars sell in miniscule numbers...

Definitely not the definition of a successful line...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 8/27/2014 9:12:55 AM EST]
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 8:52:06 AM

Once again Charles,
Your are totally wrong on prices, and mileage. I will try one last time to explain to you what I paid for one of the cars.
You haven't bought a new car In years evidently as you have no idea what the actual drive away price is.

You are also entirely wrong about the Volt also, but I won't get into that!

Have a nice day, Charles! :)

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 8/27/2014 9:00:07 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 8:50:07 AM

"You betcha! Your tax dollars at work!"

It has been my pleasure to see the emergence of the EV segment after all of these years. I support my tax dollars going towards this endeavor, regardless of the make of the vehicle that it went to support.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 8:22:31 AM

"At least Ford didn't embarass themselves with technologically moribund product like BAS."

That remains to be seen, no? Perhaps they'll hit a home run, or...

"And...? GM can't stand any improvement there (Cruze)?"

I think I said this earlier;

'Any car can be better...'

"Toyota builds an excellent fullsize truck. They underestimated the xehophobia of the fullsize truck segment."

The same thought process can be applied to the economy car segment, but in reverse...

"On the other hand, nobody understands the Ridgeline at all, anyway."

I was just sayin'.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 7:36:23 AM

rkt_wgn: "Charles. Ignorant on the facts again you just can't stand hearing the truth, so you make up your own non fact stories:)"

What fact are you challenging? Are you saying that, for $70K, the ELR won't save you hundreds of dollars on gas, like I said it would?

At an 96mpg over, let's say, 12K miles, your Volt requires $437.5 of premium gas per year. Then, there's some electricity. I hear $20 per month is typical, for a grand total of $677.5 in fuel costs. Over 12K miles per year at my piddly, taxpayer-friendly 50mpg, I use $795 in gas. Your savings are an amazing $120/year for the extra $11K that the Volt currently costs. Luckily, you have the taxpayer to help you out and the net price of the Volt drops to about $27.5K, making the difference $3.5K or so (unless GM is incenting them to get them moving... a not unusual situation). They payback is a mere 29 years (if we ignore the opportunity cost of the mone you could have invested).

Hmmm... this is such an awesome deal, I think you should buy 2 more.
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04Ram1500
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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:45:28 AM

Yes
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:41:54 AM

The prius can't outclass the volt. It is too ugly :)
Besides it can't get the yearly mileage by far .?
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:38:20 AM

Charles. Ignorant on the facts again you just can't stand hearing the truth, so you make up your own non fact stories:)
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:22:24 AM

rkt_wgn: "Also the volt is not dead,"

You betcha! Your tax dollars at work!

rkt_wgn: "This car we have owned for a year, and has averaged 96+ lifetime MPG."

What a story! Except, I'm not impressed. At 96mpg, you're filling up justa bout monthly, anyway. Which, for $24K and no raiding the taxpayer's pockets, is not far from what we do with a Prius. We'd fill it up every other month, except we take long out-of-town trips, regularly, to see some of our children. On those trips, the Volt would be outclassed by a Prius.

rkt_wgn: "GM makes 2 of the very best high mileage cars. Volt and ELR."

Yes! For $70K, you, too, can save hundreds on gas!
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 9:35:34 PM

Also the volt is not dead, but very much alive and well!! Best high gas mileage cars on the road!!! :) :)

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 8/26/2014 9:36:21 PM EST]
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 9:31:04 PM

My wife had to buy 4 gal of gas on Sat, and it had been so long since she bought gas, she almost had to get out the
Owners manual to figure out how to open the gas tank lid. There is a button inside the car to push to open the lid. This car we have owned for a year, and has averaged 96+ lifetime MPG.
It would be better if she would shop a little closer to home. About 80 miles round trip.
GM makes 2 of the very best high mileage cars. Volt and ELR.
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WilhamClouse
Champion Author Calgary

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:52:39 PM

I saw one the other day!
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:19:58 PM

Weaslespit: "Which [Ford hybrid sales] still pale in comparison with regards to Toyota's volume, which again pales in comparison to the number of ICE vehicles sold."

At least Ford didn't embarass themselves with technologically moribund product like BAS.

Weaslespit: "The Cruze brought GM back from the dead in the segment which is Toyota and Honda's bread-and butter."

And...? GM can't stand any improvement there? And no comforting words about the Malibu? The emergency el cheapo refresh isn't helping. Perhaps a shot of real money might have made a difference?

Weaslespit: "Too bad Honda and Toyota's attempt to get into the D3's bread-and-butter segment (trucks) have failed so miserably."

Toyota builds an excellent fullsize truck. They underestimated the xehophobia of the fullsize truck segment. Strangely, GM and Ford abandonedthe field i the face of the Tacoma in the midsize truck segment.

On the other hand, nobody understands the Ridgeline at all, anyway.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:01:17 PM

"It's a risk Ford seems to be managing."

Which 'no' other OEM in the world has decided to do outside of expensive sports cars...

We won't know how well they are managing that risk until 5 years down the road.

"They found a way to avoid BK in '09, when Chrysler and GM went under."

Yes, Ford had turned themselves around faster than GM and light-years before Chrysler. They only had to mortgage all of their assets to avoid BK...

"They have a cost-effective hybrid system; they're the only US-based manufacturer to even try to counter Toyota and they have two Energi products."

Which still pale in comparison with regards to Toyota's volume, which again pales in comparison to the number of ICE vehicles sold.

"The Cruze sells OK but it's in no danger of dethroning the Corolla or Civic"

The Cruze brought GM back from the dead in the segment which is Toyota and Honda's bread-and butter. Too bad Honda and Toyota's attempt to get into the D3's bread-and-butter segment (trucks) have failed so miserably.

Silly fanboy.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:00:28 PM

Weaslespit: "Which is not what this car is intended for... Just like a minivan is not intended to set speed records and take hairpin turns and a pick-up truck is not meant for comfort."

What's the point of a range-extender that doesn't meaningfully extend the range? The Volt may be half-assed in many ways but it's a reasonably good idea and, if the situation demanded it, you could drive it all day long with a fairly reasonable number of fairly fast refuelling stops. The two-gallon tank in the i3 is moronic. A 10 gallon tank, even an 8 or a 6, would make the car far more practical and hardly make a difference in available interior space or weight. People compelled to drive this thing 200 miles are going to be sorely tempted to do some very stupid things with gas gans.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 3:51:46 PM

Weaslespit: "Lol, nice crystal ball ya got yourself there... Apparently you didn't read (or have forgotten) all of the reasons why all aluminum trucks have not yet been brought to market. Lots of risk, there."

It's a risk Ford seems to be managing. But they seem to be a company that takes risks. They found a way to avoid BK in '09, when Chrysler and GM went under. They have a cost-effective hybrid system; they're the only US-based manufacturer to even try to counter Toyota and they have two Energi products.

Aluminum-specific risk aside, GM's new trucks were met with pretty complete indifference and they don't appear to have gotten any sales increase out of them whatever (at least none that wasn't spurred by incentives). Ordinarily, the "new" truck would get a bump. The $1.2 billion absolutely could have been put to better use.

The Malibu languishes, too. The Cruze sells OK but it's in no danger of dethroning the Corolla or Civic (whichever is in the lead at the moment) and GM has no counter to the Prius.

There are plenty of ways GM could have spent $1.2 billion and either gotten some market share or some strategic advantage for their money but they blew it on a moonshot that was doomed to fail.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 3:43:47 PM

"the i3 REx is a car only CARB could love. To ferry the car across a couple of Western states would require stopping every 70 miles - or less - which is ridiculous."

Which is not what this car is intended for... Just like a minivan is not intended to set speed records and take hairpin turns and a pick-up truck is not meant for comfort.

It is an urban vehicle, bottom-line.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 3:38:20 PM

"And, the fact of the matter is, GM was caught napping and Ford has stolen a march on them in the pickup space. Aluminum is going to generate a lot of interest and it's a halo for Ford. That $1.2 bllion wasted on the Volt could have been better invested in their trucks."

Lol, nice crystal ball ya got yourself there... Apparently you didn't read (or have forgotten) all of the reasons why all aluminum trucks have not yet been brought to market. Lots of risk, there.
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 2:53:00 PM

Charlie_H: "Pathetic is the word. Combined with the ridiculously small REx fuel tank (about two gallons, as I recall), the i3 REx is a car only CARB could love. To ferry the car across a couple of Western states would require stopping every 70 miles - or less - which is ridiculous. You couldn't even put up with this on the East coast, where some turnpike plazas are 30 miles apart. Driving this thing across just IN and OH would be torture."

"CARB" is right. Is believed BMW thought they could sneak the i3 REx in under the wire as an EV and qualify for white stickers if the gasoline REx range was less than the battery EV range. In an unusual display of sanity CARB said, "No" and lumps the i3 REx in with other hybrids. The non-REx i3 gets white stickers.

The European i3 REx is said to have a bit larger gas tank.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 1:09:12 PM

Charlie_H: "I need not apologize for PHV sales... it's a low volume car"

Which was developed at a low-volume investment price tag.

Weaslespit: "So is the Volt."

Which wouldn't be a problem, except it was developed at a high-volume investment price tag. Even that wouldn't be a problem, if there was a strategic advantage to it. There isn't. GM couldn't grab and hold a commanding lead in the market and their shortcomings in product development mean that they won't won't be able to keep a leadership vehicle in this space in the near future, either. They need an Atkinon engine and some other improvements, which could have been addressed by the $1.2 billion they wasted on this project.

Weaslespit: "Gotta love a double-standard."

You are at liberty to love any double-standard you can find. But that isn't one. GM must put their money where the profits are. As must Toyota. For GM it's in the Silverado and the Sierra. For Toyota, it's in midsize-to-compact cars. They would also be wise to continue developing HSD to maintain their strategic lead in fuel economy.

And, the fact of the matter is, GM was caught napping and Ford has stolen a march on them in the pickup space. Aluminum is going to generate a lot of interest and it's a halo for Ford. That $1.2 bllion wasted on the Volt could have been better invested in their trucks.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 11:05:46 AM

"I need not apologize for PHV sales... it's a low volume car"

So is the Volt.

"The Volt is not an inherently more attractive car..."

More opinion being paraded under the guise of fact.

"and the PHV is hampered by that "lack of supply" think that GM FanBoiz were lamenting back in '11 (when Volts were starting to stack up on dealer lots)."

Still amazes me that despite the sales data, you continue to believe this nonsense. You are a true Toyota Believer.

"Not hardly. In typical GM fashion, they built the concept without a concern for what the car would actually do."

As does any OEM with regards to concept cars. There is a reason it is called 'concept' car.

"Bzzt. I understand it well. Low CD allows for higher A, which enables good headroom and similar features."

Bzzt - it all has to do with drag and then what is aesthetically appealing... Note how you glossed over cars with a Cd of 0.15. That makes the Prius Cd quite unimpressive, if that is what you are going to hang your hat on.

"Yes, GM is supposed to do that."

Gotta love a double-standard.

SMH

Haters gonna hate
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 10:18:09 AM

Weaslspit: "... you're still singing the same song whenever PIP sales tank ..."

I need not apologize for PHV sales... it's a low volume car and Toyota isn't shipping many here. It's almost certainly more profitable to sell them in Japan, where people are much more interested in fuel economy.

However, you need to put sales in perspective, hence the reminder. The Volt is not an inherently more attractive car, its sales are powered by massive government aid and the PHV is hampered by that "lack of supply" think that GM FanBoiz were lamenting back in '11 (when Volts were starting to stack up on dealer lots).

Weaslespit: "Unfortunately you seem to fail to grasp the magnitude of how insignificant a .03 difference in Cd really is, especially with differences in the frontal area from vehicle to vehicle."

Bzzt. I understand it well. Low CD allows for higher A, which enables good headroom and similar features. Review my remarks on brick vs teardrop. Nobody considers a brick to have "good" aerodynamics, not matter how small its frontal area is.

Weaslespit: "... which is why the concept Volt shown at the NAIAS saw such dramatic changes - they had to lower the Cd."

Not hardly. In typical GM fashion, they built the concept without a concern for what the car would actually do. The concept had a crappy CD, and high drag in spite of its overall low frontal area. They were fairly well into the project before they realized why the EV-1 had a CD of .19...

Charlie_H: “If you proposed a rushing an expensive project at Toyota to make an aluminum Tundra, you'd be regarded as crazy.”

Weaslespit: "Yet GM is supposed to do just that, lest they “strike-out looking”? What an interesting double-standard you have yourself there…"

Yes, GM is supposed to do that. Toyota has about 10K units of Tundras per month. GM has about 50K and is cross-shopped with FCA and Ford. Companies allocate development money based on the impact on the bottom line. GM can not accept a threat in the truck market because GM would collapse without truck sales. The situation is similar at Ford (although they're cushioned by a better market position) and FCA. If Tundra sales went to zero, it would not have the same impact on TM, so it's a lower priority than the 40K/month in Camrys or 30K/month in Corollas, where Toyota makes its money.

Development money is limited, companies need to make smart choices about how they invest. GM put $1.2 billion into the Volt program and it was a big mistake. When they did that, I pointed this out and said that GM would be better off:

- Investing in programs to lighten their vehicles (they're still heavy by class).
- Invest in an Atkinson engine, which would be enabling tech for all hybrid/PHEV efforts. Without that, the Volt is doomed to unimpressive CS mode fuel economy and saddled with the laughable premium fuel requirement.
- Extend VCM to additional vehicles (they did do this but not as fast as I would have recommended - and the engines have problems).
- Improve aerodynamics across the entire range (they have made some progress but the Volt, for example, trails the PHV by a significant margin).
- Waiting on a PHEV would not affect their strategic position, as the market was not ready. Most of the ability to build a PHEV is actually the ability to build a car, particularly a hybrid car, and it had better be a very good hybrid car or it will be a very bad PHEV.
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Sugarshaneo7
Veteran Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 3:20:00 PM

is it?
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