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Author Topic: Is the Volt dead? Back to Topics
Shockjock1961
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Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 3:49:40 PM

As the Volt sales number drops below both the Tesla Model S and the Nissan Leaf while continuing to loose even money for GM, is it proving itself to be a dead end product?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2015 11:55:34 AM

I'm impressed... I didn't think the lure of $7500 in easy tax money would wear off so quickly but GM has managed to build a car that people can resist even when being bribed to buy it.

Amazingly enough, GM has also produced more 2015's since the start of the year; the number available for sale has risen by at least a thousand.

Really? Build more? Why bother? Don't they have a clue at GM HQ?
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2015 11:10:47 AM

Chevy Volt sales for March 2015 639, down from 1,478 March 2014.

Stick a fork in it....
Foolingurself
All-Star Author California

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 3:37:46 PM

No.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 3:28:18 PM

"Basically, Volt 1 has been defeated"

With $1.2 Billion invested into it's development, and sales figures currently running in the 3 digit range/month, I think it can be safely said that the Volt1 was a total flop.

Maybe that additional half billion dollars in development will make the Volt2 more marketable. Only time will tell...
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 3:19:31 PM

One of my criteria for buying a car is to figure out whether or not it's going to hold its value.

Per Edmunds, a 2012 Volt and a 2012 Prius, with 36K miles each, in good shape, currently have about the same value, just about $14K.

The difference being that the Prius could originally be obtained for about $22,500 (what I paid, in fact) and the Volt was going for $41K. Of course, the taxpayer helped out, so, although it's misleading, we'll consider the cost basis to be $32.5K, less the usual GM desperation discounts, which were about $3K at the time.

The Prius has retained about 62% of its value vs about 47% for the Volt. If you prefer, we could talk about the depreciation expense as a dollar figure, $8.5K for the Prius vs about $15.5K for the Volt.

If you look at 2 of the biggest expenses for these cars, fuel and depreciation, even at 200mpg "gas" mileage, the Volt is half again as expensive to operate as a Prius. The best comparison would be at just about exactly 40 miles per day. If your regimen varies from that (long, gas-burning trips in your Volt or very few miles per day which doesn't get maximum value from electric operation), the comparison is worse for the Volt.

For people looking to save on gas, the Prius represents a simple model... Whatever you're doing, it uses less gas than a typical competitor. And it seats 5 and hold 20 cu ft of stuff (something like 61 cu ft if you flip the seats down). Whereas the Volt demands many compromises (seating, cargo space, legendary GM reliability) and costs a fortune to buy.

It's no surprise that Volt sales have dropped precipitously in the last few months and that it has been withdrawn from Europe.

Basically, Volt 1 has been defeated. The FanBois can now pin their hopes on Volt 2.

We shall see.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2015 10:28:35 AM

"However, Shock's comment applies to just about every successful/unsuccessful car and the fact that a direct comparison between the Prius and the Volt is often useless doesn't invalidate Shock's point."

Of course not... <s>
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 17, 2015 10:12:46 AM

Shockjock1961: "The difference is that the Prius started at very low volumes and increased sales year after year, whereas the Volt started at very low volumes and decreased sales year after year, demonstrating a more dire future for the Volt..."

Weaslespit: "And charlie will tell you that a direct comparison between the Volt and the Prius is not valid, so.... "

Yeah, Charlie would often say that. However, Shock's comment applies to just about every successful/unsuccessful car and the fact that a direct comparison between the Prius and the Volt is often useless doesn't invalidate Shock's point.

The Volt's performance is reminiscent, in fact, of the Edsel, except the Edsel sold far more cars in the first year and even managed 30K in its final year; far more vehicles overall than the Volt.

The Edsel, of course, didn't have the advantage of a $7500 tax credit.

[Edited by: Charlie_H at 3/17/2015 10:13:44 AM EST]
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 4:35:50 PM

"GM continues to manufacture and sell the Volt."

Sure... In triple digit sales figures/month. The Volt may not be dead, but considering that GM speculated that they would be selling 40,000 Volts/year by now, you can definately say it's on life support. Prognosis not looking so good either...
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 12:58:04 PM

GM continues to manufacture and sell the Volt. At some time in the future they may discontinue manufacturing and selling the Volt but until then the Volt is not dead.
KWW1
Sophomore Author Newfoundland

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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2015 9:10:20 PM

Some real challenges in colder climates. Battery power to run heater and defroster limited drive distance considerably.

[Edited by: KWW1 at 3/12/2015 9:11:11 PM EST]
KWW1
Sophomore Author Newfoundland

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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2015 9:09:31 PM

Some real challenges in colder climates. Battery power to run heater and defroster limited drive distance considerably.
BartandLisa
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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2015 9:04:48 PM

No
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Mar 12, 2015 8:20:46 PM

Madridjoe predicts:

"the new battery will give it more range before the generator kicks in, that will help,"

Maybe, but I am not sure what it would exactly "help". Battery range is a serious issue on a battery-EV vehicle, but its mostly irrelevant on a hybrid vehicle like the Volt. The whole point of adding the ICE power plant IS TO make the battery range relatively immaterial.
GasMiser718
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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 1:01:20 PM

Yes as far as I'm concerned. Wouldnt buy one.
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 9:26:35 AM

With a sales level of of only 693 units last month, I would think that my opinion would be that of most... With the exception of the GM zealots and shills of course...
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 9:09:12 AM

"So the Volt looks bad (someone would say DOA) whether you compare it to the Prius or not."

Based on your opinion. We know...
Madridjoe
All-Star Author Lancaster

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 6:40:19 AM

the new battery will give it more range before the generator kicks in, that will help, but price is still a barrier for the average buyer
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 6:20:58 AM

Diesel is not being subsidized. And diesel fuel costs more.


Cng is used primarily in fleet use, negligible number sold .

[Edited by: reb4 at 3/10/2015 6:22:32 AM EST]
ray44512
Veteran Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 12:26:08 AM

The Volt just needs a little time to catch on. People resist change. Many are still afraid of diesel and CNG.
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 12:43:46 PM

So the Volt looks bad (someone would say DOA) whether you compare it to the Prius or not. What's your point?
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 12:38:12 PM

"You are still comparing apples to oranges..."

That is what I am trying to tell you... Hello?
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 12:31:10 PM

If you want to make a direct comparison between the two, the Volt is clearly the loser...

You are still comparing apples to oranges...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 11:10:04 AM

"The difference is that the Prius started at very low volumes and increased sales year after year, whereas the Volt started at very low volumes and decreased sales year after year, demonstrating a more dire future for the Volt..."

And charlie will tell you that a direct comparison between the Volt and the Prius is not valid, so....
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 10:49:39 AM

"The same analogy applies to the first 6 years the Prius was available (very low volume). Thanks again for making the comparison showing any long-term conclusions on the Volt are significantly premature."

The difference is that the Prius started at very low volumes and increased sales year after year, whereas the Volt started at very low volumes and decreased sales year after year, demonstrating a more dire future for the Volt...
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 10:01:29 AM

"And yet you think a 75% drop in Volts sales in 2 years down to a measly 600/month is not?"

Only when you ignore the context of 'why'... or in your case, cherry-picking data points to try to compare the best month with the worst month on file (rather than annual sales which I used). Typical tactic for somebody who either doesn't understand the proper usage of statistics or simply doesn't want their fragile bubble of reality to be popped. So which is it?
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 9:57:40 AM

"It's worth considering that the "peak" for Volt sales is a lot like "the highest peak in peninsular Florida (Sugar Mountain at 312 feet, to save you a lookup). It's only a "peak" by careful comparison with the rest of Florida. On an absolute scale, it's nowhere. The lowest point in Minnesota (largely considered "flat") is somewhere between 400 and 500 feet."

The same analogy applies to the first 6 years the Prius was available (very low volume). Thanks again for making the comparison showing any long-term conclusions on the Volt are significantly premature.

"You should leave the Fifties and join the modern world."

LOL, Um, OK.... How many Prii have been sold in the US, compared to the rest of the world (besides Japan)? Suddenly your 'global' picture becomes very, very small. I'll even let you compare 'total' global sales (so you can take the sales from every single country in the world, besides Japan) and compare it to US sales. I think you'll find that 15 years of 'global' sales don't even amount to the number sold in the US in just 2014 (which peaked in 2007).

You were just owned, kiddo.

"Unfortunately, the US is no longer the biggest auto market (that would be China) and worldwide sales are now the real benchmark."

OK, I'll play your 'modern world' game once again. How many Prii were sold to China last year? Bet you don't wanna answer that one (as the number is fewer than the number of Volts sold in the US)... You picked some silly stats to try to hang your hat on ;)

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 3/9/2015 9:58:07 AM EST]
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2015 5:40:45 PM

Despite declining sales, it may be slightly premature to declare the Volt "dead", even if its market appears moribund. Many large manufacturers discontinue models when their sales decline and their profitability wanes. GM however appears determined to "prove a point", and it is likely not to discontinue the Volt even if the newer Bolt outsells it, and despite is profitability (or lack thereof).

Perhaps a more interesting question is: After death, would a Volt "avatar" survive and maybe even thrive? Other companies have begun to deliver GM vehicles with hybrid drive trains supplying a niche that GM so far has failed to populate. It is even speculated that the Voltec drive train could appear in other models, either delivered by GM, or by others.

Volt "Avatar" perhas a better seller?

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 3/8/2015 5:41:43 PM EST]
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 4:57:27 PM

It's worth considering that the "peak" for Volt sales is a lot like "the highest peak in peninsular Florida (Sugar Mountain at 312 feet, to save you a lookup). It's only a "peak" by careful comparison with the rest of Florida. On an absolute scale, it's nowhere. The lowest point in Minnesota (largely considered "flat") is somewhere between 400 and 500 feet.

Volt sales peaked at about 3K units/month for a couple of months. Average US sales since introduction are in the neighborhood of 1500 units/month. That's Corvette territory, except Corvettes sell at good prices and some options have waiting lists and dealer extortion markups, where GM must offer deep discounts on top of the $7500 welfare payments to the wealthy to move them.
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 4:49:08 PM

Weaslespit: "The most important part of the picture... [is US sales]."

That's true only for the Volt and only because GM can't sell the car anywhere else. Unfortunately, the US is no longer the biggest auto market (that would be China) and worldwide sales are now the real benchmark.

You should leave the Fifties and join the modern world.
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:40:44 PM

"A 'hit'? 60% is not a 'hit', it is nearing freefall!"

LOL!!!

And yet you think a 75% drop in Volts sales in 2 years down to a measly 600/month is not?

LOL!!

Your GM fanboi is showing WS...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 3/6/2015 3:42:26 PM EST]
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:39:06 PM

Why?

Because the simple facts are not enough?

LOL!!
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:30:26 PM

"It doesn't take a zealot to see that Volt sales peaked in 2012 and has dropped 75% since then to the point where it currently sells mid triple digits/month despite being sold for a loss and being subsidized at taxpayer expense to the tune Of $7500+..."

Exactly right. It takes a true hater to assume that the peak has already been reached...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:29:44 PM

"Only a True GM FanBoi would repost GM propaganda for detfan while he was in exile."

Monthly sales data broken down by segment is now propaganda? What strange world you live in.

"Because US domestic sales are only part of the picture."

The most important part of the picture...

"The Prius can take a hit here and still make money because it still sells around the globe."

A 'hit'? 60% is not a 'hit', it is nearing freefall!

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 3/6/2015 3:32:11 PM EST]
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:21:52 PM

"Spoken like a true zealot."

It doesn't take a zealot to see that Volt sales peaked in 2012 and has dropped 75% since then to the point where it currently sells mid triple digits/month despite being sold for a loss and being subsidized at taxpayer expense to the tune Of $7500+...
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:17:01 PM

Weaslespit: "I must be the worst True GM Fanboi out there, given my many positive comments on vehicles from all manufacturers, including (but not limited to) your almighty Prius."

Only a True GM FanBoi would repost GM propaganda for detfan while he was in exile.
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:11:35 PM

Weaslespit: "Why do you always go running to global sales? And I sure don't recall gas being that cheap over the past 5 years(in fact they were at their highest as Prius sales were tumbling)."

Because US domestic sales are only part of the picture. Global sales are part of what drives profits. The Prius can take a hit here and still make money because it still sells around the globe. The Volt isn't amortizing its substantial ($1.2 billion, per Reuters) development costs with Volts sold anywhere but the US - and that's precious few Volts.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:06:36 PM

"You must look at this from Weaslespit's perspective, that of the True GM FanBoi."

I know anybody who disagrees with you appears as such, since you are a True D3 Hater...

I must be the worst True GM Fanboi out there, given my many positive comments on vehicles from all manufacturers, including (but not limited to) your almighty Prius.

;)
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 3:02:38 PM

Weaslespit: "Let's discuss your assumption that the Volt has peaked,"

Shock: "It's no assumption."

Shock,

I sense your confusion. You must look at this from Weaslespit's perspective, that of the True GM FanBoi. Basically, you are using an incorrect time horizon. The True GM FanBoi does not restrict himself to the Current Historical Record, he is basking in the reflected glow of GM's success in the Future Historical Record.

Volt sales haven't "peaked" because the *NEXT* Volt is going to be Wicked Insanely Awesomely Good and people will be rushing the doors at Chevy dealers everywhere like stampeding soccer fans to get some of that action.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:59:06 PM

"Funnily enough, you're on the list of people I suspect of preventing me from posting on certain subjects."

You can't post on certain subjects anymore? I can tell you I have only reported 4 people to the mods in my 9 years here on GB, you are not one of them (2 of them have since been banned). But think what you like...

I suspect you were placed on a forced ignore with somebody who was the originator of a thread.

"Further, your sixty per cent is overstating the case, as Prius worldwide sales haven't slumped the way they have in the memory-of-a-goldfish-when-gas-is-cheap US market..."

Why do you always go running to global sales? And I sure don't recall gas being that cheap over the past 5 years(in fact they were at their highest as Prius sales were tumbling).

"Further, GM still loves to talk up their engineering prowess (their motto is "Jamming big batteries into small cars at the expense of passenger and cargo space since 2011") but they haven't figured out how to wring 50mpg out of a gallon of gas, even with their new sub-sub-compact Korean-developed Clown Car Candidates."

And then the typical deflection.

LOL!

Don't worry, you don't have to feel compelled to respond to this post either if it makes you so uncomfortable that you can't face the reality of how poorly the Prius is doing despite gas prices being at record levels prior to last Summer.
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:51:28 PM

Weaslespit: "Pretty telling that Charlie stopped commenting on the Prius discussion when he saw that 60% slide in Prius sales over the past 5 years."

Oh? Am I now required to post on every subject *you* deem worthy?

Funnily enough, you're on the list of people I suspect of preventing me from posting on certain subjects.

The Prius is about 6 model years old and gas is down a bunch. Further, your sixty per cent is overstating the case, as Prius worldwide sales haven't slumped the way they have in the memory-of-a-goldfish-when-gas-is-cheap US market and it's still the most successful advanced technology drivetrain vehicle on the road. Further, GM still loves to talk up their engineering prowess (their motto is "Jamming big batteries into small cars at the expense of passenger and cargo space since 2011") but they haven't figured out how to wring 50mpg out of a gallon of gas, even with their new sub-sub-compact Korean-developed Clown Car Candidates.

Happy now?
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:44:38 PM

"It's no assumption."

Spoken like a true zealot.
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:37:12 PM

"I've yet to see anyone here decry Leaf subsidies"

Perhaps you should read the posts more carefully then. You have obviously missed something...
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:36:33 PM

migwitch: "Show me where GM or a GM executive has said the Volt sells at a loss."

Is CEO Dan Akerson good enouh for you?

This has been posted many times. If you're so badly informed about the Volt that you aren't familiar with such basic and well-known facts, you really shouldn't try to take on a speaking role in the discussion.
Nuzan
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:33:15 PM

No
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:31:35 PM

migwitch: "Simply put, it doesn't matter how well the Volt sells. With overall vehicle fuel economy - mandated by government decree - set to double in 9 years, all auto makers will need to keep developing hybrid and electric vehicles to meet higher fuel economy requirements."

Awww... it's the gummint's fault that GM can't figure out how to build a high-mpg car that sells, even with $7500 per in gummint he'p.

migwitch: "This is especially critical for GM, with a high percentage of truck sales."

Speaking of which, I look forward to being amused by GM's attempt at a "high-mileage" truck.

migwitch: " A new Volt is on the way, and a full electric GM vehicle will be right behind it."

Sure. The new Volt still won't be what El Lutzbo promised for Volt 1.

New Volt, new "Bolt..." The GM Toyota-Killer is always the *next* car. And with the GM FanBois, it's always, "Just you wait, 'Enry 'Iggins, just you wait!"

I've been waiting... and while I was waiting, I kept buying Toyotas because GM had nothing to compare.
migwitch
All-Star Author Green Bay

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:26:23 PM

Show me where GM or a GM executive has said "The Volt Sells at a Loss".

And as I've already discussed, the Volt does not receive anywhere near the level of tax breaks as the Nissan Leaf, yet I've yet to see anyone here decry Leaf subsidies - because you're just anti-GM trolls.
Mininana
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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:23:17 PM

not long before government escalates from telling us what to drive, to simply buying the car, delivering it and sending the bill... kind of reminds mininana of his mom...
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:13:48 PM

"Simply put, it doesn't matter how well the Volt sells."

Spoken like a true zealot. Of course it matters if the Volt sells. That it doesn't despite being sold for a loss and being subsidized at taxpayer expense to the tune Of $7500+, speaks volumes....

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 3/6/2015 2:14:54 PM EST]
migwitch
All-Star Author Green Bay

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 2:03:49 PM

Simply put, it doesn't matter how well the Volt sells. With overall vehicle fuel economy - mandated by government decree - set to double in 9 years, all auto makers will need to keep developing hybrid and electric vehicles to meet higher fuel economy requirements. This is especially critical for GM, with a high percentage of truck sales.

So keep trolling trolls, but your efforts are totally wasted here. A new Volt is on the way, and a full electric GM vehicle will be right behind it.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 1:28:53 PM

"Let's discuss your assumption that the Volt has peaked"

It's no assumption. Sales figures have been declining since 2012, reaching the abysmal mid triple digit level it sees today. All despite being sold at a loss and being the recipient of a taxpayer funded $7500 handout bribe, and if Detfans report can be believed $7000+ worth of other "incentives"....



[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 3/6/2015 1:32:49 PM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 1:01:22 PM

"The Volt is experienceing a 70% slide over two years having peaked sales at ~2K/month and seeing sales now in the mid triple figures.

What's there to discuss?"

Let's discuss your assumption that the Volt has peaked, as well as your deflection from the Prius sales collapse... ;)



[Edited by: Weaslespit at 3/6/2015 1:02:18 PM EST]
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