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Author Topic: Is the Volt dead? Back to Topics
Shockjock1961

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Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 3:49:40 PM

As the Volt sales number drops below both the Tesla Model S and the Nissan Leaf while continuing to loose even money for GM, is it proving itself to be a dead end product?
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bikergirlss
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 6:00:37 PM

i have a volt and i really like tho when the lease is up if Chevy doesn't have something else I like I wont have any problem giving it back n moving on. i had a prius before and that car was just plain Boring.
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JKazakus
Sophomore Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 5:22:29 PM

D.O.A.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 2:02:03 PM

I hope Volt 2.0 launching next Fall pulls some exterior styling cues from the Ampera, I did prefer the styling a bit more over the current Volt (which IMO is already miles ahead of any other EV/PHEV).
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 10:55:51 PM

Ampera going down.

No wonder, the price in Europe is 42,500 euros, which equals over $58,000.00 in USA dollars.
They are lucky to have sold as many as they did.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 8:27:47 AM

"*researching like hell to provide the perfect intellectual comeback as the world laughs at how foolish and wasteful these efforts have become.... I WILL have the last word*......... "

Care to discuss the Volt, contiki/Jabba? Or are you just gonna keep trollin'?
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Jabba
Veteran Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 11:35:34 PM

*researching like hell to provide the perfect intellectual comeback as the world laughs at how foolish and wasteful these efforts have become.... I WILL have the last word*.........
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 11:29:47 AM

"E-85, another taxpayer special..."

Such is the case for most paradigm shifts with regards to technology advancement...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 10:19:02 AM

"Now, don't get the idea that I believe you do all that, becaus I certainly don't, but if you did... You'd need about 76 gallons of E-85 to do 1K miles in a Tahoe "

Yes, I actually. do. I own a Tahoe (it does average 13 mpg), Volt, 3/4 ton diesel truck, and a Corvette. The Tahoe consumes the most fuel. The Volt we drive more miles than the diesel truck. The Corvette gets pulled out for special road trips.

Since we have had multiple E85 stations within four miles of us for the past decade, it's been easy to fill with E85. Now, the closest E85 station is 10 miles. What's unbelievable about what I do?

"The 64 gallons of ethanol that you burned would require on the order of another 30-40 gallons of oil equivalent energy to produce (natural gas, diesel and other inputs). "

So what. 64 gallons of gasoline takes 75 gallons of crude and other energy inputs to produce. What's your point?

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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 9:13:41 AM

The Volt remains on life support but GM has called the code on the Ampera.

GM-Volt, No Gen 2 Ampera
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 9:12:17 AM

SoylentGrain: "Wrong. For the past 15 years we have been filling the Tahoe with E85. Chances are, we consume less imported oil than you do cramped up in a Prius. Flat out, on an annual basis, we buy very small quantities of gasoline. It's E85, electricity, and soy diesel, in that order."

E-85, another taxpayer special...

Now, don't get the idea that I believe you do all that, becaus I certainly don't, but if you did... You'd need about 76 gallons of E-85 to do 1K miles in a Tahoe (per C/D estimate of a few years ago). In addition to all the ethanol, that's about 12 gallons of actual gasoline. While that may initially look like a "win" (the raw gasoline "MPG" is 86), there's a BTU of energy input into each BTU of energy out ethanol. The 64 gallons of ethanol that you burned would require on the order of another 30-40 gallons of oil equivalent energy to produce (natural gas, diesel and other inputs). The actual "oil-based" mileage of your Tahoe, were you to actually ever use E-85 in it, would be somewhat difficult to compute but it's not likely to be beating a Prius.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 9:07:04 AM

"entertaining above all else is the pissing match that ensues when an intellectual has clearly met his or her match......."

Something conitki/jabba wouldn't know much about as there are 'very' few on GB that appear match-up that low on the intellectual scale.



[Edited by: Weaslespit at 7/21/2014 9:08:00 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 9:06:41 AM

"You do know e85 never has 85 % ethanol, right??? can range anywhere from 51% to 83%. And didn't you indicate under your other name.... that you used e85 on half of your trips?"

Are you missing his point on purpose to split hairs?
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Jabba
Veteran Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 4:13:40 PM

entertaining above all else is the pissing match that ensues when an intellectual has clearly met his or her match.......
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 3:35:46 PM

LOL...

SoylentGrain
1st you say "Wrong"... then later you say "Chances are".


You do know e85 never has 85 % ethanol, right??? can range anywhere from 51% to 83%. And didn't you indicate under your other name.... that you used e85 on half of your trips?


[Edited by: reb4 at 7/20/2014 3:36:54 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 11:13:06 AM

"So, your dedication to the cause of not buying imported oil somehow ends whenever you want to rent a land yacht and cruise in style and is closely linked to your ability to harvest tax dollars."

Wrong. For the past 15 years we have been filling the Tahoe with E85. Chances are, we consume less imported oil than you do cramped up in a Prius. Flat out, on an annual basis, we buy very small quantities of gasoline. It's E85, electricity, and soy diesel, in that order.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 10:25:45 AM

So, your dedication to the cause of not buying imported oil somehow ends whenever you want to rent a land yacht and cruise in style and is closely linked to your ability to harvest tax dollars.

OK. I get it.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 12:21:40 AM

"Didn't you recently tell us you favor a large car for any cross-country trips you take?"

Yes. And that's the reason, for the past quarter century, we would rent a Lincoln or Cadillac for long trips, if we didn't own a Suburban or Tahoe. We don't drive small cars long distances. Of the four cars we own, the Volt, for a cross-country trip, would be the last choice.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 10:12:29 PM

SoylentGrain: "Some of us don't want to run to filling station to buy product made from imported oil. That's why I bought a Volt for less than $40,000."

Didn't you recently tell us you favor a large car for any cross-country trips you take?
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 10:37:00 AM

"People don't want to run after charging stations."

Some of us don't want to run to filling station to buy product made from imported oil. That's why I bought a Volt for less than $40,000.

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weddy11
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 10:28:33 AM

It is to me.
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 9:22:07 AM

"The Volt going at over 40,000$ should have never existed."

A $40,000 Volt doesn't exist. Try $34,995 and subtract $7,500+ off that price....mid to high twenties is more like it.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 3:40:04 PM

"Good. Realizing that you're not getting the concept is the first step."<rimshot>
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bacvain
Rookie Author Quebec

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 3:33:26 PM

The Volt going at over 40,000$ should have never existed. The idea was good but the actions taken were not. People don't want to run after charging stations. Enough with that dream...goes for Tesla too who is selling them at 80k and more.

Nissan on the other hand understands that people want to pay not more then 30k for something like that. But the problem is the charging stations. They don't have enough yet.

As for the Volt, the car looks weird IMO and I cant stand seeing it take another spot on the road. Harsh, but that's what I think about it...same goes to Priuses (waste of space)
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 3:27:12 PM

Waslespit: "Still not getting the concept - no biggie."

Good. Realizing that you're not getting the concept is the first step.

[Edited by: Charlie_H at 7/18/2014 3:27:32 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 3:23:43 PM

"weasel,

The haters are really well informed about everything, right?"

They sure seem to think so...
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 3:05:47 PM

weasel,

The haters are really well informed about everything, right?

They should apply to get on Jeopardy.

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 7/18/2014 3:06:44 PM EST]
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forestghost07
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 2:06:28 PM

I've seen maybe ... 2 on the roads? Don't know anything about 'em, don't wanna know. Owning 1 GM pile of s...t was enough to make them a lifetime enemy.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 1:59:33 PM

"We sell all kinds of stuff in Japan. But we're not trying to sell crappy cars."

Still not getting the concept - no biggie.

"A well grounded opinion."

I would hope one thinks their opinion to be "well grounded" - however this distinction doesn't make any 'opinion' carry anymore 'weight'.

"Too few seats, too little cargo room, too much money, mediocre CS-mode fuel economy. I wasn't the only one to predict it would not sell well. GM itself said they'd lose money, so that's hardly "opinion," that's "well-informed estimate.""

Haters gonna hate.
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SGLuz
Veteran Author Modesto

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 12:30:26 PM

Yes
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:53:20 AM

Weaslespit: ""Tough for American companies to sell anything in Japan."

Weaslespit: "This applies to more than just cars... but hey, continue hating ;)"

We sell all kinds of stuff in Japan. But we're not trying to sell crappy cars.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:50:43 AM

"And you are also welcome to your opinion... "

A well grounded opinion.

Too few seats, too little cargo room, too much money, mediocre CS-mode fuel economy. I wasn't the only one to predict it would not sell well. GM itself said they'd lose money, so that's hardly "opinion," that's "well-informed estimate."
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cujo1977
Champion Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:45:27 AM

Y
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:42:37 AM

evidently every nay-Sayer knows a lot more than Wikipedia.

Kinda woke everyone up, Huh!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:30:53 AM

"No. It was obvious from the get-go, that the Volt would not sell well."

And you are also welcome to your opinion...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 11:30:15 AM

"The Leaf had been matching the Volt here and started pulling away this year. It's also outselling the Volt in Europe."

Neither is really selling in EU either (especially when you get past Norway)... 42K sold in NA, 34K sold in Japan and 20K sold everywhere else.

Like I said, a 3-to-1 comparison with regards to Global sales doesn't tell the full story.

Re-read carefully what was posted;

"Tough for American companies to sell anything in Japan."

This applies to more than just cars... but hey, continue hating ;)
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 10:51:24 AM

Weaslespit: "Just my opinion, but based on the numbers I think the Volt is selling at expected levels. When you factor in the number of competitors now in the segment and allowing for the possibility that more potential customers are waiting for Volt 2.0 which is just over the horizon, the fact that it is maintaining relatively stable levels of deliveries is not such a dark cloud..."

No. It was obvious from the get-go, that the Volt would not sell well. GM said they expected to lose money on it. GM produced it, though, because they would be "fustest with the mostest" and, in spite of the losses they were going to take and the large but conventionally unjustifiable investment, they would grab off a strategically commanding lead in share and KEEP IT. That isn't happening, every new entrant erodes GM's share, and that is why the Volt program is a failure.
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 10:44:34 AM

Weaslespit: "Tough for American companies to sell anything in Japan. But you knew that... "

The Leaf had been matching the Volt here and started pulling away this year. It's also outselling the Volt in Europe.

Of course, "tough" is relative. You'd think that if GM actually wanted a toehold in the Japanese market, that they'd "hit 'em where they ain't" and the Volt, which is fairly unique and on which GM bragged for 4 solid years before underwhelming us in Dec of 2010, would be an ideal product for a GM reintroduction to Japan.

The fact is, GM sells nothing in Japan largely because they don't even try. They "attempted" to get some sales in Japan back in the late '90's, maybe early '00's, with the Cavalier, which was considered "primitive" by JDM standards. The large length X width for the low amount of useable interior and cargo space made it a complete non-starter. The poor reliability and relatively low fuel economy also worked against it. The Japanese public looked at it and said, "forget it."

It wouldn't have sold here, either, except that Detroit was blessed with a high level of (misplaced) customer loyalty towards the D3 and a great antipathy towards the Japanese auto makers on the part of the US buying public. A survey from the late '00's revealed that 40% of American car buyers still would not even consider an "Asian" car (oddly, the Germans don't have that problem here).

GM's failure to sell cars in Japan has nothing to do with Japan and everything to do with GM's own incompetence.

Shockjock1961: "True, since the Volt is being sold at a loss, if the Volt sold at a higher rate, it may force GM may have to file for bankruptcy again..."

Too true and yet too funny!
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WEDDY
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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:49:38 AM

It is to me.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:22:25 AM

" Just my opinion, but based on the numbers I think the Volt is selling at expected levels."

True, since the Volt is being sold at a loss, if the Volt sold at a higher rate, it may force GM may have to file for bankruptcy again...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:20:35 AM

"Tough for American companies to sell anything in Japan"

LOL!!

Nice attempt at spin...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:18:45 AM

"I don't think the volt is DEAD but it is definitely not selling well and the reports that it was going to sell well in other countries, just was just a dream that never really"

I have to disagree with your first point. Just my opinion, but based on the numbers I think the Volt is selling at expected levels. When you factor in the number of competitors now in the segment and allowing for the possibility that more potential customers are waiting for Volt 2.0 which is just over the horizon, the fact that it is maintaining relatively stable levels of deliveries is not such a dark cloud...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:13:36 AM

"Wow! 3 Leafs sold for every Volt. I knew here was a large margin between the two, but I didn't realize it was this large!"

Tough for American companies to sell anything in Japan. But you knew that...
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 9:04:57 AM

LOL

"The Chevrolet Volt is the world's top selling plug-in hybrid electric car.
A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV), plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHV),"





Since the Volt is a hybrid, and other "plug-ins" are not, that is an accurate statement.... For now, but the trend is changing, and the Volt will need to improve to remain competitive, let alone the leader...


And the VOlt is definitely not the best selling plug-in....

[Edited by: reb4 at 7/18/2014 9:06:18 AM EST]
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 12:41:36 AM

Following post by Wikipedia
Last edited 26 days ago by Mariordo
Plug-in hybrid

The Chevrolet Volt is the world's top selling plug-in hybrid electric car.
A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV), plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHV),

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 7/18/2014 12:43:21 AM EST]
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rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 12:21:04 AM

The Chevrolet Volt is the world's top selling plug-in hybrid electric car.
A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV), plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHV), or plug-in hybrid is a hybrid vehicle which utilizes rechargeable batteries, or another energy storage device, that can be restored to full charge by connecting a plug to an external electric power source (usually a normal electric wall socket). A PHEV shares the characteristics of both a conventional hybrid electric vehicle, having an electric motor and an internal combustion engine (ICE); and of an all-electric vehicle, having a plug to connect to the electrical grid. Most PHEVs on the road today are passenger cars, but there are also PHEV versions of commercial vehicles and vans, utility trucks, buses, trains, motorcycles, scooters, and military vehicles.

The cost for electricity to power plug-in hybrids for all-electric operation has been estimated at less than one quarter of the cost of gasoline in California.[1] Compared to conventional vehicles, PHEVs reduce air pollution locally and dependence on petroleum. PHEVs may reduce greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming,[2][3] compared with conventional vehicles. PHEVs also eliminate the problem of range anxiety associated to all-electric vehicles, because the combustion engine works as a backup when the batteries are depleted, giving PHEVs driving range comparable to other vehicles with gasoline tanks.[4][5][6] Plug-in hybrids use no fossil fuel during their all-electric range and produce lower greenhouse gas emissions if their batteries are charged from renewable electricity. Other benefits include improved national energy security, fewer fill-ups at the filling station, the convenience of home recharging, opportunities to provide emergency backup power in the home, and vehicle-to-grid (V2G) applications.[7][8] Several countries, including the United States and several European countries, have enacted laws to facilitate the introduction of PHEVs through grants and tax credits, emissions mandates, and by financing research and development of advanced batteries and other related technologies.

Chinese battery manufacturer and automaker BYD Auto released the F3DM to the Chinese fleet market in December 2008[9][10][11] and began sales to the general public in Shenzhen in March 2010.[12][13] General Motors began deliveries of the Chevrolet Volt in the United States in December 2010, becoming the first plug-in hybrid available for retail sales in the American market.[14] As of January 2014, the number of series production highway-capable plug-in hybrids available in the market is limited to 10 models, mainly in the United States, Japan, Western European countries and China.

As of December 2013, over 163,000 highway-capable plug-in hybrid electric cars have been sold worldwide since December 2008. The Chevrolet Volt family, including its siblings Opel/Vauxhall Ampera, is the world's best selling plug-in hybrid with combined sales of about 70,000 units by January 2014. As of December 2013, the Toyota Prius PHV is the second top selling plug-in hybrid 48,600 units sold, followed by the Mitsubishi Outlander P-HEV with over 17,800 units. As of December 2013, the United States is the market segment leader, with over 95,500 plug-in hybrids delivered, followed by Japan with over 25,000 units, and the Netherlands with more than 24,500 units sold through December 2013.
N
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2014 10:10:20 AM

The numbers posted were from a blog.... But Hybrid Cars indicated that the site seems to be reliable....I posted the information in several places and thought people here would be interested in the information...

I don't think the volt is DEAD but it is definitely not selling well and the reports that it was going to sell well in other countries, just was just a dream that never really

I provided the link for ytd sales for 2013 world wide, but for the record:

The sales for Volt were about 19K behind Leaf for all of 2013, and only about 5K ahead of PIP..

[Edited by: reb4 at 7/10/2014 10:12:07 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2014 9:58:11 AM

Wow! 3 Leafs sold for every Volt. I knew here was a large margin between the two, but I didn't realize it was this large!
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Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2014 9:18:52 AM

reb4,

Thanks. Interesting numbers!
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2014 9:20:53 PM

Interesting Information on this blog showing World Sales - through the Month of May 2014

rank ytd sls
1. - 22,074 - Nissan Leaf
2. - 10,575 - Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
3. - 10,506 - Tesla Model S
4. - 9,053 - Toyota Prius Plug-In
5. - 7,863 - Chevrolet Volt (1)
6. - 4,346 - Ford Fusion Energi

For 2013 Year end sales - link here....
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 3:42:17 PM

Though due for a redesign, the Chevy Volt still measures up to the Ford C-Max Energi, BMW i3 and Toyota Prius plug-in.

Plug-in hybrid cars: Rating the compacts
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