Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    4:32 AM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Car Talk > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Is the Volt dead? Back to Topics
Shockjock1961

Champion Author
Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 3:49:40 PM

As the Volt sales number drops below both the Tesla Model S and the Nissan Leaf while continuing to loose even money for GM, is it proving itself to be a dead end product?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
Boyrr
Champion Author Allentown

Posts:17,624
Points:3,834,740
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 12:50:58 PM

...not if it has spark.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:34:57 AM

Sure, that's why sales are so pathetic and declining...
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 3:54:32 AM

Volt is the best by far. ;)
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 10:26:16 AM

"GM PHEV's, cant beat them!!!!"

Can't sell them either as evidenced by their minuscule and declining sales figures...
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 10:15:53 AM

The Volt is still the best looking PHEV below $50k. and will be better in 2016, with more power, more range, and restyle.

Top quality as I have owned 2 with a total of 35,000 miles and no returns to dealership. great quality.

The Caddy is also top shelf, with mileage figures of "1862 MPG since July".
1700 miles driven on 0.913 gal of gas purchased. A measly $2.70 worth of liquid gold, in 6 months. ;)

My other car would have use about $300.00 of gas in the same time frame.
The savings would be greater if I put more miles on it.

GM PHEV's, cant beat them!!!!
Profile Pic
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

Posts:3,444
Points:989,850
Joined:Feb 2005
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 7:29:36 PM

rjhenn concludes:

"Sounds like a good time to buy a used Volt!"

Well, that is true. Rather than lamenting this, Chevrolet Volt enthusiasts should celebrate this, as it means that more people can now afford to purchase one compared with other used competing models. GM didn't decide to take all of these "off lease" vehicles back, like they did with the EV-1. While I don't know, I am guessing that some Volts were also sold outright which means that they are more likely to continue on the road with their original purchasers. In contrast, GM offered the EV-1 with a lease only, and when the leases expired, they withdrew them all, and along with the existing "unsold" inventory (when production of the EV-1 ended, the inventory was estimated to be a five year supply), of new EV-1s, they drove a bulldozer over them and destroyed all of them, except for a few "museum" pieces. The Volt has been given a much more attractive "second life".

Lest you think that the demise of the EV-1 was a fluke, before the Corvair, Chevrolet made an earlier air-cooled engine, knows as the "copper cooled" design. It was judged a failure, and like the EV-1, the remaining unsold inventory was dumped into Lake Superior. Like the Volt, the Corvair was allowed out to "pasture" after production ended. I guess that says something about first mistakes and confidence in the "second" design.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 9:29:09 AM

"Further, although we *know* the Volt loses money, we have no particular reason to believe Ford or Toyota is losing money."

Of course not, that wouldn't fit your narrative.

"If Toyota follows their trend, the next Prius will have a larger set of electric motors... adding a larger pack to the base car will be simple and it will be a more capable PHEV."

Meaning it will still be behind the curve when the next gen Leaf and Volt are launched.

"When I start comparing cars that just hit the streets with 10X the federal tax credit to cars delivered in 2001, then this criticism will carry some weight."

I understand if some don't like to look in the mirror. Understandable why you think my comment doesn't carry any weight... Hopefully you can stick with one horse though, now that it has been pointed out.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:29,063
Points:2,877,495
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 6:05:45 PM

Sounds like a good time to buy a used Volt!
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 4:30:28 PM

Not only are sales of the Volt miniscule and in decline, the resale value is dropping like a rock...

So, what happens to resale values of vehicles with little mass appeal that are forced upon the public with subsidies and manipulated leases? The result was predictable; those leased vehicles are now being returned and resale values are plunging. Having won many awards in the past, the Chevy Volt is now the front-runner to be the recipient of the highest depreciating vehicle award.

"The Chevy Volt fiasco has been one more example of how government should not intrude upon industry and free markets. The Volt obviously had political roots as it was thrust upon the public with media-driven hype that it was to be a savior for GM and the answer to America's reliance on foreign oil. The wonder-car was to save us from terrorism and global warming all at once!

The management at GM was, and still is, reluctant to admit that the Volt has been an utter failure. "
Profile Pic
kennyman
Champion Author Alberta

Posts:2,227
Points:452,085
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2014 10:48:40 PM

Hope so.
Profile Pic
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

Posts:3,444
Points:989,850
Joined:Feb 2005
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2014 7:37:04 PM

Most of the traffic in this forum has been about the competition between the Toyota Prius and the Chevrolet Volt. Little attention has been given to the fact that Chevrolet, themselves sells a vehicle which can provide competition for the Volt and perhaps cannibalize Volt sales.

The Cruze, Cruze ECO and Cruze Diesel all provide a much less expensive vehicle with good or better mileage than the Volt. Some of the declining sales of the Volt may be due to Chevrolet competing with itself. While I don't have sales figures, Chevrolet's own Chevrolet's own website details the appealing specs of these models.

Does the existence of the Cruze mean that Chevrolet doesn't believe that the Volt can capture the sales that the Cruze does? Does it mean that Chevrolet believes that the Volt is a "niche" vehicle unable to compete with all other potential comers?



[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 12/9/2014 7:38:12 PM EST]
Profile Pic
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

Posts:3,444
Points:989,850
Joined:Feb 2005
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2014 7:19:46 PM

SoylentGrain points out:

"the Prius was either recalled or it wasn't. Yes, correcting with a new part is what a recall is all about."

True, but the Prius was a special case, with many demands for a recall to fix a design error for "runaway acceleration". No actual recall for this ever actually occurred, as no design fault in the Prius' drive by wire system was ever demonstrated. The beginning of this issue was actually a rented Lexus, rather than a Prius, and was ultimately determined to be an incompatible aftermarket floor mat.

There were so many allegations about this problem that was unique to the Prius, that one needs be aware of those numbers when considering recalls.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 4:45:15 PM

Shock's note implicitly points out something important... The decline in Volt sales probably made Tesla eclipsing the Volt inevitable.

I have also been amused to see FanBois elsewhere blaming low Volt sales on supply. They never learn... There's over 5K Volts on offer, which is enough to sustain over 4K in monthly sales. If they didn't sell, it's not because people can't find them, it's because people aren't looking for them.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 4:23:24 PM

Weaslespit: "I thought it was clear that what is good for the goose is good for the gander..."

Not necessarily. Only one lays eggs.

GM was, by their own claim, going for a win here. You've derided the Prius as a half-effort. Sure, it is. But it cost them practically nothing to do and it gets a foothold in this segment for zilch. Even so, they don't do too badly in it. When you evaluate the worth of a project you consider not only the return on investment but also the *investment*. GM put a $1.2 billion into a segment that clearly couldn't pay ("we'll lose money for years") but which was also open to a competitor with a decent hybrid system (Ford, Toyota, Honda).

Consequently, GM had to aim for a strategic win to offset the loss. That's the "leapfrog." It was their intent to grab off a share that would be daunting to other competitors for years to come. That didn't work out, either.

Further, although we *know* the Volt loses money, we have no particular reason to believe Ford or Toyota is losing money. The Prius PHV is a Prius with a different battery pack. Development costs were minor and part of the 4.4kwh pack cost is offset by the deletion of the current 1.2kwh pack. Given estimates for $/kwh running at $500-600, the incremental cost of the Prius PHV is about $2.6K - cost of base Prius pack. Then they charge about $4K more than the price of a similarly equipped Prius.

The cost of the C-Max Energi would be similar, compared to a base C-Max.

If Toyota follows their trend, the next Prius will have a larger set of electric motors... adding a larger pack to the base car will be simple and it will be a more capable PHEV.

GM gets no strategic win.

"Strange, I brought up the fact that you were touting the Tesla months ago when it was getting crushed by the Volt, after initially selling well, yet you categorically denied it. Yet here we are again... SMH"

I denied nothing. The Tesla, for its price, has always done remarkably well, if we measure it against the Volt or the ELR (which is still less expensive than a Model S). It's simple, the GM vehicles are under-achievers.

The nature of the auto market is that cheap cars should sell abundantly and expensive cars should sell far more slowly. In general, this is how it works out. However, GM skews the curve because its luxury cars are generally not particularly desirable. The CTS was a major advance for Cadillac but it's still not considered as attractive as a Mercedes, BMW or Audi. Consequently, it gets discounted and sold for less. Cadillac is "fleet luxury," sold in lots to companies that need something nice to shuttle people back and forth to the airport at bargain rates.

Weaslespit: "This is what happens when people are obsessed with 'getting the win'. You start switching horses to whichever is competing at the time."

When I start comparing cars that just hit the streets with 10X the federal tax credit to cars delivered in 2001, then this criticism will carry some weight.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 4:12:29 PM

"So you are showing you don't get the difference between a trend - established through months of data, vs. a single data point?"

Months of data show that the Volts sales are minuscule and the trend is that sales are in decline. How does that dispute the single data point?
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 4:00:58 PM

"So, you're saying Toyota was wise not to spend beaucoup bucks in PHEV development at this time?"

I thought it was clear that what is good for the goose is good for the gander... You can't tout the Prius for the same thing you degrade the Volt for.

"Yer kiddin' me, right? You-know-who would be all over such a thing."

So you are showing you don't get the difference between a trend - established through months of data, vs. a single data point? I hope you are the one kidding here.

"The Tesla outselling the Volt? Or even coming close, as it has for several months running? That's huge."

Strange, I brought up the fact that you were touting the Tesla months ago when it was getting crushed by the Volt, after initially selling well, yet you categorically denied it. Yet here we are again... SMH

This is what happens when people are obsessed with 'getting the win'. You start switching horses to whichever is competing at the time.

"Chevy outsells their own luxury brand, Cadillac, by better than 10 to 1.."

As-is the Volt, compared to the ELR - no?

"No, I'm not."

Welp, your choice I guess.

Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 2:07:22 PM

Weaslespit: "Yet the segment is not."

So, you're saying Toyota was wise not to spend beaucoup bucks in PHEV development at this time?

Weaslespit: "Back to monthly, anecdotal data points?"

Yer kiddin' me, right? You-know-who would be all over such a thing. I don't even have to go back 10 years for this win.

Moreover, as I pointed out several times... who expects a luxury car to sell as well as this mainstream Chevy? We can understand the lower-priced Leaf outselling the Volt... its *less expensive* and more accessible.

The Tesla outselling the Volt? Or even coming close, as it has for several months running? That's huge.

Look at GM generally... Chevy outsells their own luxury brand, Cadillac, by better than 10 to 1. In that light, the Volt is doing astonishingly poorly. A mid-range Model S, in fact, gets less than a 10% Federal discount. The Volt's effective discount is better than 20%. Why wouldn't the Volt sell far faster?

El Lutzbo, allegedly, was stung by the relative success of the Tesla Roadster (which was something of a joke... a boutique car from an as-yet unestablished manufacturer - if you rely on Lotus' help for your car, you're in deep trouble). You'd think that, had he been carefully considering their business model and the EV market, they might have done a better job of engineering a winning car.

The FanBois over at GM-Volt often talk about GM's "skateboard" and "Hy-wire" tech as being stolen by Tesla for the Model S. Perhaps its even true... but one has to stop and wonder why GM didn't exploit it themselves, steal a march on Tesla and get a 1K unit/mont, profitable Cadillac BEV on the road. El Lutzbo and the GM marketing people must not have been able to read the signs the way Tesla did.

The fact of the matter is, El Lutzbo didn't think about much that really mattered, except that GM's "ego" had been hurt and railroaded GM into building a car that does poorly when he could have made smarter choices and built a car that did significantly better.

Weaslespit: "C'mon bub, you're better than that."

No, I'm not.

Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 1:05:18 PM

"No, the Prius is a proven, profitable market performer."

Yet the segment is not.

"If you're referring to gas prices, they're also taking a toll on the Prius."

Yes.

"This month, it's not. It fell behind the Tesla. Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Tesla nets out for 2X-3X the Volt's price."

Back to monthly, anecdotal data points? C'mon bub, you're better than that.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 1:00:04 PM

Weaslespit: "Neither is the Prius,"

No, the Prius is a proven, profitable market performer. And you can consider that HSD is deployed in the hybrid options for cars other than the Prius, which means that HSD adds more to the bottom line than just the Prius.

The Volt hasn't proven itself in the market, without a massive subsidy, and it's not profitable for GM, either.

Weaslespit: "Interesting that you still refuse to acknowledge the tangible downward pressures which directly influence Volt sales..."

If you're referring to gas prices, they're also taking a toll on the Prius. However, Volt sales started to decline before the precipitous drop in gas prices. And the idea of the tax credit it to buoy PHEV sales in spite of adverse market forces.

Weaslespit: "Or is the Volt not the #2 vehicle in the 'pluggable' segment (out of 22 vehicles), going into its 5th model year?"

This month, it's not. It fell behind the Tesla. Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Tesla nets out for 2X-3X the Volt's price.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 12:39:22 PM

"Not much to brag about.."

Neither is the Prius, if you keep zooming out, but I don't hate on it...

Interesting that you still refuse to acknowledge the tangible downward pressures which directly influence Volt sales...

Guess some just want to see what they want to see.
Profile Pic
southtown43701
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:15,679
Points:3,061,115
Joined:Jul 2005
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 12:38:08 PM

no
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 12:34:29 PM

"An unsubstantiated opinion not born out by the data. Or is the Volt not the #2 vehicle in the 'pluggable' segment (out of 22 vehicles), going into its 5th model year?"

An overly expensive model with insignificant and declining sales despite of being the recipient of a $7500 taxpayer funded bribe/subsidy, and which loses GM money on each one sold, in a segment that itself has insignificant sales..

Not much to brag about...
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 12:31:27 PM

"But years later in the real world, we know know the Volt is really like and have stopped buying it"

An unsubstantiated opinion not born out by the data. Or is the Volt not the #2 vehicle in the 'pluggable' segment (out of 22 vehicles), going into its 5th model year?
Profile Pic
davisadm
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:3,355
Points:1,083,025
Joined:Dec 2011
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 11:29:00 AM

rkt_wgn wrote - "I wonder why most vehicles that are traded in for new chevy Volts, are Toyota Prius ?
If the Pruis is so good, why would anyone trade one in for an inferior product. ;)LOL"

This is based on several year old stats, back when the Volt was just introduced. But years later in the real world, we know know the Volt is really like and have stopped buying it. rkt_wgn just cannot give up his endorsement for the Volt.
Profile Pic
OilerFan
Champion Author Tulsa

Posts:16,610
Points:2,997,380
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 10:14:33 AM

not concerned.
Profile Pic
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,285
Points:23,500
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 10:13:57 AM

"True, and all ultimately proven false or corrected with a new part."

"the Prius was either recalled or it wasn't. Yes, correcting with a new part is what a recall is all about.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 8:05:42 AM

rkt_wgn: "I wonder why most vehicles that are traded in for new chevy Volts, are Toyota Prius ?
If the Pruis is so good, why would anyone trade one in for an inferior product. ;)LOL"

LOL indeed. Prius owners probably tend to be optimists.

That information is 3 years old and dates to when the Volt sold in the low hundreds per month. You should ask GM for an update. You won't get one.
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 3:07:37 AM

I wonder why most vehicles that are traded in for new chevy Volts, are Toyota Prius ?
If the Pruis is so good, why would anyone trade one in for an inferior product. ;)LOL
Profile Pic
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

Posts:3,444
Points:989,850
Joined:Feb 2005
Message Posted: Dec 6, 2014 8:00:09 PM

SoylentGrain points out:

"Find Out if Your Toyota is Affected by the Accelerator Pedal Recall
Lots of Prius years listed."

True, and all ultimately proven false or corrected with a new part. There are so many of these one has to wonder if a large number of people thought that they could get rich with "runaway acceleration" claims, or if a concerted effort was made to thwart Toyota sales at the point where global Toyota sales surpassed GM's.

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 12/6/2014 8:04:08 PM EST]
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:29,063
Points:2,877,495
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 6, 2014 1:41:04 AM

Except that they were in almost complete opposition to GM's corporate culture.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 11:04:02 PM

Many of my friends who currently drive Toyotas and Hondas owned at least one Saturn. It really was GM's best shot at fighting off Toyota and Honda and, for a while, it looked like it might work.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:29,063
Points:2,877,495
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 5:41:30 PM

Charlie_H - "The Q guy from HQ came in and told us the company was redoubling our effort to get every car perfect, like Toyota. So, from then on, like Toyota, all of us were empowered to do what was necessary to ensure perfection. Even stopping the line, like Toyota workers can do, to resolve a problem immediately."

Sounds like what happened at the Saturn plant, in Spring Hill, Tennessee. When they started up, the policy was to let anyone stop the line to solve a problem immediately. However, after people actually did stop the line a few times, the practice was banned.
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 5:01:28 PM

Weaslespit,

Recalls are great. I have confidence Toyota recalls my cars as appropriate to ensure lasting value.

With the Volt, it appears there's a service campaign (or two...) for battery coolant system issues. However, given the number of posts I see, it seems GM is not being aggressive in pursuing current Volt owners. They're doing the right thing and I won't chide them for having a campaign but they could probably do it more aggressively.

Weaslespit: "Both are reliable cars..."

But one is clearly not as good as the other in reliability.

Nobody's going to argue that GM hasn't improved. Their relative ranking is higher and their absolute problem rates are down.

But GM is not going to win back Honda or Toyota owners or get dramatically better resale value from "better than we used to be." They need to hit "as good or better than everybody else."

I question whether or not GM has the will to achieve that. Leadership in product reliability requires a commitment at all levels.

A poster on TTAC, some years ago, related a story that went like this:

The Q guy from HQ came in and told us the company was redoubling our effort to get every car perfect, like Toyota. So, from then on, like Toyota, all of us were empowered to do what was necessary to ensure perfection. Even stopping the line, like Toyota workers can do, to resolve a problem immediately.

Everybody was impressed and there was a buzz of discussion around the room. Then the plant director thanked the Q guy and had one of the other managers escort him out and drive him to the airport.

As soon as the Q guy was gone, the director said, "Anybody who stops the line will be looking for a new job the next day."

The plant director was measured by unit count and certain direct costs that didn't include warranty work. Stopping the line was not aligned with his paycheck. In fact, it wasn't really aligned with the paycheck of anybody in the plant. Q probably wasn't really aligned with the paycheck for anybody in the company.

So, that was that. There were probably some good things that came about as a result of managerial focus on Q (fixing a broken process would still look good on a PowerPoint presentation) but real improvements, driven by all the workers, because they were all being paid to care, weren't realized.

I don't know that this anecdote came from a GM plant but GM was run the same way... people talked about Q but they weren't compensated to get it.

We have misalignment here, too. Sometimes we notice and fix it but we often don't. However, we're not so screwed up that we've driven ourselves out of business, either.

GM has done some good work, recently. But their reliability is just not there, yet. Considering they had a near-death experience, I'd hoped that they'd be shaken up enough to maybe turn that around but it hasn't happened yet.

[Edited by: Charlie_H at 12/5/2014 5:02:38 PM EST]
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 2:28:20 PM

excuses, excuses, excuses!!! LOL
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:17,518
Points:583,205
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 1:12:48 PM

Looks like the flame war regarding recall sis rekindled...

*sigh*

Let's just address what seemed to spark the flame;

"One of the recent forum posts on GM-Volt is about the "service campaign" for battery coolant."

Don't we give automakers an 'atta-boy' when they do the right thing and take care of the customer?

"Posts about various Volt problems are not at all uncommon and many of these problems involve lengthy stays at the dealership while the dealer service personnel and GM try to figure out what's wrong"

And one can find anecdotal evidence for this type of activity for nearly every make and model on the roads.

"TrueDelta tracks enough Volts for useful stats. A brand-new Volt is about as reliable as an 8 year old Prius."

Both are reliable cars...

Profile Pic
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,285
Points:23,500
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 1:09:59 PM

"So you are comparing a company that produces over 10 million cars/year to a single model of car which sells a mere few thousand/year. "

Actually both companies produce about 10 million cars each year. But, I think this discussion is about the Volt with some people harping about the Prius. Did I not mention Prius in my last post?
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 12:50:48 PM

"Shock, If you would read the statements that brought up my statement, you would find that we were writing about Toyota, and the Volt."

So you are comparing a company that produces over 10 million cars/year to a single model of car which sells a mere few thousand/year.

Talk about apples to oranges...
Profile Pic
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,285
Points:23,500
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 11:21:26 AM

Find Out if Your Toyota is Affected by the Accelerator Pedal Recall

Lots of Prius years listed.
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 11:10:23 AM

Shock, If you would read the statements that brought up my statement, you would find that we were writing about Toyota, and the Volt.
There you would find the recall info we wrote about. Very heavily in Volts favor.. zero recalls in last 3 years for Volts, versus Toyota's many, many recalls.

Also the recalls were because of mistakes by the safety commission ,as they did not follow up on disconnecting the battery, as GM had stated that they should do. Caused by neglect on the safety comm.

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 12/5/2014 11:15:39 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2014 9:17:34 AM

"Google Toyota recalls in the last three years, and see what you find"

rkt wgn: Google GM recalls in the last three years, and see what you find...
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 5:35:32 PM

Charlie,

Google Toyota recalls in the last three years, and see what you find.

Recall, Recall, Recall, many, many times. LOL
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 5:28:29 PM

Fiero GT,
<The Volt is for sure not on my to buy list.>

I once owned a Fiero, and it certainly was not a good car. Working on that thing was a job in itself. What a piece of crap!
Profile Pic
FieroGT
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:16,739
Points:2,998,340
Joined:Mar 2005
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 5:21:24 PM

The Volt is for sure not on my to buy list.
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 5:18:42 PM

charlie,

I have driven my two volts for over 33,000 miles, and neither one has ever had a recall, or any maintenance except for oil change, tire rotate, etc etc.
It is time for my first oil change, tire rotation in the 2014 now, so I will be taking it in soon for free service.

I have never had any of the problems, nor have I heard of them, you state in your post.

Toyotas are rampant for recalls.

Look up Green Car Reports for info.

[Edited by: rkt wgn at 12/4/2014 5:22:25 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 4:54:30 PM

rkt_wgn: "The Volt has not had any, zero, 0000, Recalls or emergency work done on them."

One of the recent forum posts on GM-Volt is about the "service campaign" for battery coolant. Posts about various Volt problems are not at all uncommon and many of these problems involve lengthy stays at the dealership while the dealer service personnel and GM try to figure out what's wrong (the Volt owners often complain about being compelled to run only on gas for two weeks in the loaner Malibus they're given). Another common source of problems is the boot battery, which suggests its being abused; perhaps there will be a "service campaign" for that.

TrueDelta tracks enough Volts for useful stats. A brand-new Volt is about as reliable as an 8 year old Prius.

rkt_wgn: "Toyotas are in the shop daily!!! ;)"

Only in your dreams.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 3:54:47 PM

" The Volt has not had any, zero, 0000, Recalls"

GM recalling 8,000 Chevy Volts to prevent battery fires
Profile Pic
rkt wgn
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:18,981
Points:3,386,055
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 3:34:57 PM

<"Just Get Me to the Church on Time... in a Toyota because my Chevy's in the shop.">

Wrong again doggie breath. The Volt has not had any, zero, 0000, Recalls or emergency work done on them.

Toyotas are in the shop daily!!! ;)
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:29,063
Points:2,877,495
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 3:21:17 PM

Wouldn't "east of Buckeye" put you in the suburbs of Phoenix?
Profile Pic
Charlie_H
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:2,614
Points:47,855
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 1:44:40 PM

There's a song in "My Fair Lady," isn't there, that goes, "Just you wait, 'Enry 'Iggins, just you wait?"

El Lutzbo and GM's FanBois sometimes remind me of that song.

Ah. Here we go: My Fair Lady - Just You Wait

GM could have its own song book.

"Wouldn't It Be Loverly... if we could build a hybrid car that sold."
"Just Get Me to the Church on Time... in a Toyota because my Chevy's in the shop."
"With a Little Bit of Luck... my 'Bu will start."
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,197
Points:2,867,165
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 9:17:54 AM

"Wait till 2016"

Isn't that what they said about the Volt itself?

"Wait until the Volt comes out. It's going to revolutionize the car industry" they said.

Still waiting for that supposed revolution. All I've seen so far is a flop....
Profile Pic
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,285
Points:23,500
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 7:16:22 AM

"Living in southern California as I do, I have a lot familiarity with "desert", and I enjoy them, even planning on visiting Ridgecrest and Death Valley before the end of the year, so naturally, I am curious.

Where in Illinois is desert found? "

I now live in South Eastern Iowa and Arizona. The "desert enclave" is located east of Buckeye, Arizona within walking distance of the White Tank mountains.
Post a reply Back to Topics